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roncron

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2011
1,184
2,284
The controversy about what’s causing these issues and how many XS/Max units are affected continues unresolved on these threads, and similar ones at other forums.

None of us can sure if the problems are due to a hardware issue (like poor antenna design) or a software issue that Apple will be able to fix with a patch.

The analysis from wiwavelength suggests it’s a faulty antenna design (and, he argues, not at all due to the use of Intel modems instead of Qualcomm), if I’m interpreting his blog posts correctly. That would mean every single XS/Max unit can have these connectivity issues. Wiwavelength might be correct. But nobody knows his credentials, and his findings haven't been independently replicated/corroborated.

This doesn’t mean he’s wrong and the hundreds of highly credentialed Apple engineers who designed the new iPhones are right. But until I see corroborating evidence, I can’t accept the conclusion that the new iPhones (by which I mean the XS series) have a faulty antenna design.

Another possibility is that the problem is affecting only a tiny percentage of XS and Max units. This seems the most plausible to me. Here’s why:

Apple sold around 9 million XS and XS Max units in the first week they were available (based on estimates published by Flurry Analytics GM Peter Farago about two weeks ago). And surely a million or more in the following weeks. How many people are having problems? I don’t know if it’s possible to count the number of people who have reported problems on Macrumors, Reddit, Apple forums, etc, but let’s suppose it’s 10,000.

10,000 is one-tenth of one percent of the 10 million XS/Max units that Apple has likely sold.

What about the other 99.9%? Probably some of those phones are having similar problems but their owners haven’t discovered those problems yet--maybe because they live in areas with excellent coverage, or maybe because when a signal is dropped they assume it’s due to some reason other than their phone being defective.

So, the number of people posting about their issues surely under-represents the total.

But is it possible that ALL XS and Max units are having issues (due to a bad antenna design)? That seems extremely unlikely. If that were true, then these issues would be much bigger news and Apple’s stock price would be dropping as investors fear the costs of replacing about 10 million phones (that are priced over $1000 each - that's over $1 billion).

Another reason it’s unlikely that a majority of the XS and Max units are defective is that there have been dozens of reviews of these new iPhones in professional publications and sites (like CNET, The Verge, Consumer Reports, New York Times, etc) and virtually none of them have mentioned the issue. Some of you have correctly pointed out that many of these reviewers are under pressure to write positive reviews. But if there were a widespread problem due to a design defect, would every single one of these reviewers stay quiet about it? It would be major news if the $1 billion or so worth of new Apple phones had a defect due to poor antenna design. Surely some news outlet would jump on the story. But that hasn't happened (other than the Forbes columnist who is always writing biased stories about iPhones or iOS updates, the troll who cried wolf).

I think the most likely explanation is that a tiny percentage of units are affected, and the cause is either a hardware defect (not defective design), a software issue, or both.

But I am not certain of this. If true, then the likelihood of getting two bad units in a row would be very, very tiny, and yet a number of us have had our XS/Max units replaced with another one that was nearly or equally as bad. (And poor ROLLTIDE got three bad units in a row.)

Bottom line, nobody knows the truth, the best we can do is look at the different possibilities and think about which of them is the most or least plausible.

Meanwhile, what to do if you have a phone experiencing issues?

Until someone starts a class action lawsuit, I think the best thing we can do is take it back and get a replacement. This gives Apple an incentive to bust their asses to figure out the problem and issue a solution if they can, because they’re losing money every time someone returns their phone. And more importantly for you in the short term, there’s a very good chance your replacement unit will be fine. It might not be, as some unfortunate souls here can tell you. But many of us who’ve replaced our XS or Max units now have one that’s working perfectly, or at least much better.

Also, don’t forget that a number of people who own X or 8/8+ have said they’ve been having similar issues, either now (since installing iOS 12) or in the first weeks following their purchase last year.

I’m confident Apple will improve or completely fix the issue with software updates or will replace units people are having problems with - but those people have to initiate the replacement. Apple is not going to send 10 million letters to new XS/Max owners inviting them to bring their phone in for a replacement.
 

billhelm

macrumors regular
Aug 1, 2010
233
98
TL;DR

return the phone if you still can

hope for a software update if you can't...

(I had my first problem with a tmobile xs max today nearly a month later, but it resolved itself in a minute or two. I've driven well over 40 hours doing ridesharing all over the city with varying signal strengths with this phone and this is the first issue I've had.)
 

elitypes

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2007
114
201
This should be taken with a grain of salt but I saw the following post over on the Apple forums:

"iPhone Xs Max poor cell phone reception fix?
Got a call today from apple today they said its a software glitch which going to be fix in the next update i asked him are you its not hardware issue he said i am 100% sure its a software glitch"
Somewhat positive however massive grain of salt. I just went to that thread on the Apple forum and there is no such comment or post like that across the 7 pages. So either it was removed or it was fake? Who knows. :-(
 

indychris

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2010
704
1,527
Fort Wayne, IN
This should be taken with a grain of salt but I saw the following post over on the Apple forums:

"iPhone Xs Max poor cell phone reception fix?
Got a call today from apple today they said its a software glitch which going to be fix in the next update i asked him are you its not hardware issue he said i am 100% sure its a software glitch"


Even if the statement was given, and if it was given in good authority, there's the matter of WHICH issue(s) will be fixed? Is it the problem of reconnecting to LTE after switching to 3G/4G? Is it the overall weak reception of the Max as compared to the Qualcomm-based previous models? Is it the speed of data transmission?

My guess is that some of the stuff can be fixed with software, but I'm guessing that the XS will always be plagued with having worse signal reception than the Qualcomm phones of previous generations in the same way that my wife's AT&T 8+ struggles in places where my Sim-free 8+ does just fine with voice and data.
 

DotCom2

macrumors 603
Feb 22, 2009
6,323
5,640
Somewhat positive however massive grain of salt. I just went to that thread on the Apple forum and there is no such comment or post like that across the 7 pages. So either it was removed or it was fake? Who knows. :-(
WHOA!
Looks like it was removed! That's scary. When I click on the link to it, I now get this:
Unauthorized



Access to this place or content is restricted. If you think this is a mistake, please contact your administrator or the person who directed you here.


Apple Footer
[doublepost=1539792385][/doublepost]Here is the original post that was removed.
 

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elitypes

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2007
114
201
WHOA!
Looks like it was removed! That's scary. When I click on the link to it, I now get this:
Unauthorized
Scary indeed! Wasn't doubting that you saw it, but I am not surprised it was removed. I am going to guess it was either removed for being fake or Apple not wanting expectations out there that the issue could for sure 100% corrected via software. Probably damage control to remove some liability and manage expectations.

In either case I am still holding but have a genius appointment for Thursday. Will come back with any updates for those interested.
 
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Smoothie

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
781
544
California
According to this YouTuber, iOS 12.1 Beta 4 hasn't fixed the LTE issues on his XS Max. This beta may be the last before the final version is released. His comments start at about 1:10. He appears to be an Apple fan and doesn't seem to have an agenda; he's just reporting his experience.


I have no idea why the Apple Forum post about a software fix was removed, but it doesn't appear to be present in the forthcoming update.
 
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jlt1984

macrumors newbie
Nov 3, 2011
25
27
I've been quietly testing yet another (unexpected attempt, I thought I had given up but I caved again) Max since Monday and this one is performing pretty much identical to my Qualcomm X on Verizon in every area I've tested it in. This is in regards to speed tests confirmed to be on the same band and tower as well as successful undropped calls. It should be noted that there seems to be a consistent 4-5db variance in the signal strength between the two devices in field test mode, though.

I've read posts saying theirs worked great at first and then things changed later, here's hoping I did not jinx myself by chiming back in here...
 

PBz

macrumors 68030
Nov 3, 2005
2,616
1,577
SoCal
According to this YouTuber, iOS 12.1 Beta 4 hasn't fixed the LTE issues on his XS Max. This beta may be the last before the final version is released. His comments start at about 1:10. He appears to be an Apple fan and doesn't seem to have an agenda; he's just reporting his experience.


I have no idea why the Apple Forum post about a software fix was removed, but it doesn't appear to be present in the forthcoming update.
Likely to be at least one more beta.
 
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predation

macrumors 65816
Apr 3, 2013
1,237
867
I'm flying up to Portland tomorrow to pick up the XS Max I ordered online today. Can I ask you, where do I find the manufacturing date? I'll be in touch and post once I pick it up. I've been monitoring the inventory for one specific Apple location in Portland, Oregon and I know they have always been sold out of the XS Max Gold 256, but miraculously, today, it showed up as being available. I ordered it, and immediately after, inventory shows none for this specs after I paid for it. I'm hoping I get one from a recent batch. It sucks buying Apple products where it becomes a gamble in getting a product that actually works, as it should, right out of the box. Thanks.

mine is being delivered today and i have a 09/16-09/22 build date. This was ordered from the apple store app (yesterday) and the phone was being warehoused in Rialto. F2 if that matters.

man.. should have piggy backed with you if you're going to Oregon lol.


no tax.
 

jabbok

macrumors member
Feb 22, 2009
81
51
Okay I got my 2nd XS Max I really like the phone but any calls I go to make it drops to 3G every time this is so frustrating as I was supposed to meet someone this afternoon to sell my 8+ so I think I am going to have to reconsider whether I want to put up with this or just send it back.
 

Yunklucy00

Suspended
Oct 17, 2018
10
9
ok onto my third iPhone XS Max 512gb unit apple quality control is really getting beyond terrible.

Unit one arrived last Monday came with signal issue comparing the iPhone XS Max with my iPhone X.
iPhone XS Max only shows 2 signal bars with the same network sim in the iphone X shows around 4 bars plus the iPhone XS Max phone had glue sticking out of the screen bands+yellow screen issue.

Second unit arrived on Friday last week came with large gap around the bands and a scratch on the screen/dent on charger port but signal issue was much better iPhone build date was in week 39. (Somehow this screen was nice blue colour no yellow tint)

Third unit arrived today came with sharp and rough edges on the screen side and a terrible yellow screen issue too.

Onto my 4th unit next Monday will update the device not even looking forward receiving it to be honest.
 
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DotCom2

macrumors 603
Feb 22, 2009
6,323
5,640
mine is being delivered today and i have a 09/16-09/22 build date. This was ordered from the apple store app (yesterday) and the phone was being warehoused in Rialto. F2 if that matters.

man.. should have piggy backed with you if you're going to Oregon lol.


no tax.
Ummmm Hate to tell you this but that is the same build week of one I returned.
That's doesn't really mean a thing though so don't worry.
 
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Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
So is consensus that this a big enough issue it might push Apple towards a (quiet?) rapprochement with Qualcomm?
 

Freakonomics101

macrumors 68030
Nov 6, 2014
2,740
1,799
ok onto my third iPhone XS Max 512gb unit apple quality control is really getting beyond terrible.

Unit one arrived last Monday came with signal issue comparing the iPhone XS Max with my iPhone X.
iPhone XS Max only shows 2 signal bars with the same network sim in the iphone X shows around 4 bars plus the iPhone XS Max phone had glue sticking out of the screen bands+yellow screen issue.

Second unit arrived on Friday last week came with large gap around the bands and a scratch on the screen/dent on charger port but signal issue was much better iPhone build date was in week 39. (Somehow this screen was nice blue colour no yellow tint)

Third unit arrived today came with sharp and rough edges on the screen side and a terrible yellow screen issue too.

Onto my 4th unit next Monday will update the device not even looking forward receiving it to be honest.

Talk about a poor experience, quality and lack of QC. They must’ve cut costs on that. You’re right though because QC was never this bad.

So is consensus that this a big enough issue it might push Apple towards a (quiet?) rapprochement with Qualcomm?

Lol... I doubt it. Apple is a pretty stubborn company overall. Qualcomm is as well so I don’t see anything changing with what happened unless Qualcomm offers a good deal that Apple can’t refuse. Qualcomm is losing out on a lot of money so who knows.
 
Last edited:
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John webstar44

Suspended
May 9, 2018
139
63
ok onto my third iPhone XS Max 512gb unit apple quality control is really getting beyond terrible.

Unit one arrived last Monday came with signal issue comparing the iPhone XS Max with my iPhone X.
iPhone XS Max only shows 2 signal bars with the same network sim in the iphone X shows around 4 bars plus the iPhone XS Max phone had glue sticking out of the screen bands+yellow screen issue.

Second unit arrived on Friday last week came with large gap around the bands and a scratch on the screen/dent on charger port but signal issue was much better iPhone build date was in week 39. (Somehow this screen was nice blue colour no yellow tint)

Third unit arrived today came with sharp and rough edges on the screen side and a terrible yellow screen issue too.

Onto my 4th unit next Monday will update the device not even looking forward receiving it to be honest.

lol, QC Probably saving cost this year on this too more profits for Apple due to low smartphones sales.
 

jabbok

macrumors member
Feb 22, 2009
81
51
Okay just spent over an hour with Apple and Bell Apple said they did all of the testing, reset network settings, setup phone as a new device not from backup, turn on airplane mode etc. and because the phone passed the diagnostics from Apple the problem is not hardware or software. Apple told me to call Bell so I did their answer was to turn off my data when I was going to make a phone call and when I am done with the phone call turn it back on "WOW"

So I will just keep my iPhone 8+ until the problem is fixed as I can't justify spending so much money on a phone with poor cellular which is what I need as I am on the road with work and need to have something reliable.
 

Smoothie

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
781
544
California
I just got back from lunch with some friends at a restaurant in a business district in the East Bay of the SF Bay Area. Two of my friends had previous generation iPhones with them, they were both with AT&T and showed one bar of LTE. We ran a speed test on one of the older phones (an iPhone 8). It registered 2 Mb/s down and barely registered anything on the uplink. My XS Max showed four bars on Verizon and registered 88 down and 26 up.

My takeaway: (1) the cellular service in the East Bay is spotty at best; (2) wireless carriers in the U.S. need to up their game and invest more in infrastructure; (3) with four bars of LTE signal, the XS Max can perform well; (4) strong signal strength can mask any deficiencies in cellular radio design no matter the model or brand of phone.

This doesn't negate the real-world speed differences that have been reported between the XS phones and previous iPhones, all other things being equal. It also doesn't negate the reports of no coverage or dropped calls that have been reported with the XS phones where previous generation phones have maintained the connection. Generally speaking, these issues usually appear in poor coverage areas where the radio and antenna performance are more critical. But there are lots of variables that can impact this.

None of us knows how prevalent these issues are. People who live or work in areas of good coverage will probably never encounter these problems. The vast majority of people probably have never heard of Speedtest or similar apps. (My friends hadn't, so I ruined their day.) The vast majority of people are not subscribers to Macrumors or other tech forums, so the reports here are far from a representative sample. Finally, even if someone encounters these problems, if it only occurs occasionally they may just chalk it up to a temporary glitch and not read up on cellular modems or antenna performance or the feud between Apple and Qualcomm.

My last day to return my XS Max is tomorrow. (I think Apple counts the day you receive the phone as the first day.) My biggest problem so far has been one failure to connect to the cellular network at all even when the phone shows LTE coverage. Turning on and off airplane mode didn't work, and I had to reboot the phone to make the connection. I think this is a software problem. I don't have the patience to keep testing the download speeds of my phone in various locations and compare them to my iPhone 7 in the same place. I believe that the antenna performance of the XS phones isn't as good as other phones according to the FCC data, but Apple may be able to ameliorate it to some degree with software. Apple, Intel and the cellular carriers know if there's a problem with the XS phones' LTE connectivity, and what's likely causing it. So I'm going to put some faith in Apple. If that faith turns out to be misplaced, then they've lost a future customer.
 

Freakonomics101

macrumors 68030
Nov 6, 2014
2,740
1,799
Apple told me to call Bell so I did their answer was to turn off my data when I was going to make a phone call and when I am done with the phone call turn it back on "WOW"

They are constantly blaming each other. Some of the recommendations both companies are giving can be pretty funny. Apple makes people do the same troubleshooting with every issue when 90% of the time, none of it works. It’s such a huge pain in the butt to erase everything and set it up as new when nothing is fixed. And then you have to erase everything again, start over, restore the backup and wait for everything to download, being forced to be on Wi-Fi and if there’s a Wi-Fi limit, using up so many gigs. They made me do all that, twice. -_-
 
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