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Is the new Mac Pro a failure?
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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True...but how much longer will they support cMP? Who knows. Eventually software developers will have to evolve at one point, right?
You nailed it here, life is too short, you need to get the best tool for the job, do it and then focus on what really matters.
dude those computers are MINE.
I don't put on my signature the computers I use for my job. The list would contain something like 120 iPads various models, 20 servers, 60 workstations various models, 300 desktops, 150 notebooks and so on .....
The unified thermal core is a cool design, but can't handle the heat disipation under full load for long durations.
The lack of a second CPU limits the nMP's audience. Video encoding, 3D renders, simulations, all benefit from more CPU power.
The fact that the nMP can't be serviced by the user after the warranty expires is a huge let down.
The lack of a second CPU limits the nMP's audience. Video encoding, 3D renders, simulations, all benefit from more CPU power.
The fact that the nMP can't be serviced by the user after the warranty expires is a huge let down.
Hey - I wouldn't dare to speak for you, no reason to be upset - this is a forum, question was asked, I answered with an opinion, that's all it is. One v0n's opinion. It is not a party manifesto or work union's call to arms. And we are not coming to take away that graphite Brabantia from you.
Entertain the "what if" though - what if the "iBin" never happened and the nMP 2013 was indeed just a revised classic shape MP, with space for the usual 6 drives inside, the usual 4 PCIe slots but two new thunderbolt buses and USB 3. Would that break your current workflow? No. If anything your hardware options and "bang for buck" purchasing power would expand. Introduction of faster internal bus solid state drives didn't require throwing away SATA connectors, introduction of TB didn't require throwing away PCIe etc etc. Current PC hardware is the proof. The iBin broke the workflows and upgradability within Mac space for a lot of us. Years of R&D at some third party device manufacturing companies were smashed against the wall (snaps fingers) "just like that" with one jaw dropping announcement on stage. Unnecessarily. Purely for vanity, to make work horse pretty. True story.
That's what I said. But in my story he flipped me the finger before showing me the exit.
It might be good for Larry something, but that's not how industry standards work. Not how it's done. Adobe couldn't simply discontinue Photoshop and give people MS Paint to use for few years before patching it roughly to Paint Shop Pro levels and expect the industry to still cheer them on. Apple shouldn't have discontinued industry standard NLE on the spot and then leave the new one without broadcast monitoring output for a year? No switchable media libraries for two years. No ability in re-import old projects and so on, etc. It's boring to even discuss this again, after so many years. FCPX as found in Apple Store today is an OK-ish app - but the fixes to make it less of a iMovie Pro and more of a Final Cut Pro 'Elements' level arrived way too late. And in my book that's all it is now - weirder looking FCP Express. It's like Sony Vegas for Mac. It will take many revisions to make it compete on plain level, let alone win again with Avid or Premiere on industrial level - ie. for anything more significant than videography or weddings.
I think so too. 4k itself is IMHO also the cliffhanger. The one thing keeping a lot of media companies with Apple, an inch from mass migration. The only viable master codec for 4k at the moment is ProRes. And ProRes is native to OSX. One more year of hesitation from Apple, one ffmpeg based export plugin for Premiere that's made far enough from US to never get sued for license breach, maybe some "out of the blue" free 4:4:4 close-to-lossless compression codec from competitor and *puff*...
LOL. Yeah. I like your responses. Anyway. I still hear you though. Since there's an indication (or rumored) of nMP 2016...let's hope they step their game up...or how do we make a loud noise in Tim's ear or Ive' s ear?Hey - I wouldn't dare to speak for you, no reason to be upset - this is a forum, question was asked, I answered with an opinion, that's all it is. One v0n's opinion. It is not a party manifesto or work union's call to arms. And we are not coming to take away that graphite Brabantia from you.
Entertain the "what if" though - what if the "iBin" never happened and the nMP 2013 was indeed just a revised classic shape MP, with space for the usual 6 drives inside, the usual 4 PCIe slots but two new thunderbolt buses and USB 3. Would that break your current workflow? No. If anything your hardware options and "bang for buck" purchasing power would expand. Introduction of faster internal bus solid state drives didn't require throwing away SATA connectors, introduction of TB didn't require throwing away PCIe etc etc. Current PC hardware is the proof. The iBin broke the workflows and upgradability within Mac space for a lot of us. Years of R&D at some third party device manufacturing companies were smashed against the wall (snaps fingers) "just like that" with one jaw dropping announcement on stage. Unnecessarily. Purely for vanity, to make work horse pretty. True story.
That's what I said. But in my story he flipped me the finger before showing me the exit.
It might be good for Larry something, but that's not how industry standards work. Not how it's done. Adobe couldn't simply discontinue Photoshop and give people MS Paint to use for few years before patching it roughly to Paint Shop Pro levels and expect the industry to still cheer them on. Apple shouldn't have discontinued industry standard NLE on the spot and then leave the new one without broadcast monitoring output for a year? No switchable media libraries for two years. No ability in re-import old projects and so on, etc. It's boring to even discuss this again, after so many years. FCPX as found in Apple Store today is an OK-ish app - but the fixes to make it less of a iMovie Pro and more of a Final Cut Pro 'Elements' level arrived way too late. And in my book that's all it is now - weirder looking FCP Express. It's like Sony Vegas for Mac. It will take many revisions to make it compete on plain level, let alone win again with Avid or Premiere on industrial level - ie. for anything more significant than videography or weddings.
I think so too. 4k itself is IMHO also the cliffhanger. The one thing keeping a lot of media companies with Apple, an inch from mass migration. The only viable master codec for 4k at the moment is ProRes. And ProRes is native to OSX. One more year of hesitation from Apple, one ffmpeg based export plugin for Premiere that's made far enough from US to never get sued for license breach, maybe some "out of the blue" free 4:4:4 close-to-lossless compression codec from competitor and *puff*...
So the main question is: will the "new" nMp in 2016 will just be an update of the nMP spec wise or will Apple go back to a more "big workstation" design? Some companies I work/advise for want to purchase a new workstation instead of upgrading their 5.1s (which is acceptable as a company) and I don't dare to advise them to buy a 6.1 in 2016 - some update has to happen or we go all the way with HPs.
Bumped specs. Apple has spoken on this topic. It's hard to see them going back on their decision.
It went from someone to WE He is obviously talking for other people even though he may not know who they are.
Actually, I mentioned this earlier, it's probably not a failure...BUT the real question is: Are you able to move from previous generation mp and to new mp. Are you willing to adapt to new direction that apple is taking us to?
Yes, and if she has two friends who think the same the "we" is appropriate.
She didn't say "everyone" - it was pretty clear that her perspective was rather limited.
Why can't you accept that at MacWorld 2013 Apple essentially said "Look at the new Mac Mini Pro - we're leaving the workstation market."?
But - if all you need is a Mac Mini Pro - the MP6,1 is a great machine.
If you want Apple OSX on something like a Precision or Z-Series - condolences, Apple has abandoned you.
look.. apple is never going back to a more big workstation. (well, they have some of the largest computers in the world.. or, their personal computer spans the world)
but in the PC market.. the market everyone at this forum is gathered around.. they will not make a big workstation again.
of all the various experts we're blessed with here, one that you will never see is an industrial designer talking crap about nmp.. in fact, i challenge the forum to put on the goggle's and find any industrial designer talking about how mac pro is a failure.. it's not.
i get it that when people say "if you don't like it then buy a dell (etc)".. it sounds like flippant type remark but the reality is, those types of statements probably couldn't be any more truthful.. if you don't like it now, if you don't foresee yourself liking it in a few years.. then move on.. the 6,1 form (like, the exact same size/shape) is here to stay for quite a while still.
apple is hyped on this thing.. they're proud of the accomplishments.. and rightly so.. probably to the extent of- even if nobody ever bought one and it was a complete disaster/flop, apple would continue to make them just for their own internal use ; )
fwiw, @ all of the various pros here.. lets not forget apple inc has all the various genres in-house and using these computers ..cad,graphics,video,audio,photo,etc.. and chances are, those individuals are more talented than us individuals.. i wonder if they share similar sentiments re:nmp as the pros here do .. "stoopid tim! i need a mvc!
" (or whatever)
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I have to salute to you on that...because really...it is true.look.. apple is never going back to a more big workstation. (well, they have some of the largest computers in the world.. or, their personal computer spans the world)
but in the PC market.. the market everyone at this forum is gathered around.. they will not make a big workstation again.
of all the various experts we're blessed with here, one that you will never see is an industrial designer talking crap about nmp.. in fact, i challenge the forum to put on the goggle's and find any industrial designer talking about how mac pro is a failure.. it's not.
i get it that when people say "if you don't like it then buy a dell (etc)".. it sounds like flippant type remark but the reality is, those types of statements probably couldn't be any more truthful.. if you don't like it now, if you don't foresee yourself liking it in a few years.. then move on.. the 6,1 form (like, the exact same size/shape) is here to stay for quite a while still.
apple is hyped on this thing.. they're proud of the accomplishments.. and rightly so.. probably to the extent of- even if nobody ever bought one and it was a complete disaster/flop, apple would continue to make them just for their own internal use ; )
fwiw, @ all of the various pros here.. lets not forget apple inc has all the various genres in-house and using these computers ..cad,graphics,video,audio,photo,etc.. and chances are, those individuals are more talented than us individuals.. i wonder if they share similar sentiments re:nmp as the pros here do .. "stoopid tim! i need a mvc!
likewise..
why can't you accept that?
instead of keeping on and on about a nonexistent workstation that apple A)doesn't have a horse in.. B)aren't even in the workstation market.
a mac mini pro?
hell yeah.. sounds great.. that's what i need.
does apple make one?
yep.. it's that shiny little trashcan looking thing over there in the corner.
looks like it will do the trick.. i'll take one.
I don't think harshly criticizing Apple's direction is a waste of time. The banter on this forum inspired this article in the mainstream Mac press. Digilloyd has been very vocal about the problem of Apple Core Rot, and of course everyone knows about the Marco Arment incident which resulted in Phil Schiller getting called out on Apple's quality control issues during an interview.
Whether Apple even reacts this criticism is another question. But damn it, we love the Mac platform and will fight with whatever we can to push it in the direction we want it to go with the hope that Apple will correct course so we won't have to switch to HP/Dell machines.
Whether Apple even reacts this criticism is another question. But damn it, we love the Mac platform and will fight with whatever we can to push it in the direction we want it to go with the hope that Apple will correct course so we won't have to switch to HP/Dell machines.
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here's a problem.
this is the computer you* want:
http://www.boxxtech.com/products/workstations/apexx-workstations
the exact computer you want is right there.
that you don't recognize you want it is beyond me because pretty much everything you pine for is included in these boxxes.. is that right?
but i think the chances are moderate-to-decent for you to say "hey tim, here's what i want: ___ ___"
then tim says "oh.. haven't you heard of boxx yet?"
* collectively
You know, the sad thing...in a perfect world they both could live. The 6,1 certainly has it's use cases (super quiet for sensitive audio production, graphic design, somewhat transportable, etc) and the tower certainly has it's power hungry cravers (video production, 3d animation design, etc). It's a shame Apple doesn't see the need to dominate the professional market like this (a quick doodle):
hmmm.. could they?
...or, the perfect world is but a fantasy.. because that , ^ ..is not going to happen.
(meaning-- that ad.. those spec lists.. and those prices next to each other)
As I mentioned...a quick doodle. And I did say "in a perfect world" which denotes fantasy my friend.
oh.. i'm not knocking the doodle.
i like when people do crap like that.
e.g https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-mac-pro-parody-photo-thread.1685787/
----
i just meant i really don't think apple could sell a 6,1 cmp tower alongside a 6,1 cylinder..
the round one is more expensive.
they would be directly competing with each other.. not complementing each other.
even if the sales were around the same percentages as this thread's poll.. both lines would be suffering.. probably better to focus on one model than having two radically different models aimed at the same crowd.. that's probably something they learned from doing the cube.
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I can't disagree with you. They definitely made their direction clear a few years ago. Desktops are disappearing every year.
Nice thread link by the way, gonna check that out!
Except a Boxx machine doesn't run Mac OS X (at least, not in an Apple-sanctioned + supported way).
What rawweb posted is what I want. Sadly it likely won't ever happen, unless Apple surprises us with a New Coke strategy.
What rawweb posted is what I want. Sadly it likely won't ever happen, unless Apple surprises us with a New Coke strategy.
I think they could make a Power Mac tower line successful if they sectioned it off from the consumer Macs. Keep the trashcan Mac Pro around for the prosumers. Revive their Enterprise line of products. Offer them to individual buyers if they're willing to pay bigger bucks for the machines. Or they could partner with IBM to create a line of Mac-compatible and licensed tower workstations.
iPad sales are slowing and iPhone is showing signs of following. Apple needs new areas to grow to keep the shareholders happy.
iPad sales are slowing and iPhone is showing signs of following. Apple needs new areas to grow to keep the shareholders happy.
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