I'll try to address everyone's questions here...
Is it possible to know about your 5,1 specs please?
Just to have something for comparison.
Thank you.
2x2.93gHz (12 core), 48GB RAM 1333mHz, R9 280X 3G, 1TB Samsung 840 EVO (2013 edition) with 3x4TB HGST Deskstars inside, running Mavericks. I also have two UAD OCTO cards in there which don't really contribute to this but are epic for audio stuff and nice to have inside the chassis instead of connected externally.
First, the 6,1 has internal speakers. Not really sure why you would want to use them in any mac for pro work though...screenshot attached. Second, I use a 5,1 and 6,1 every day. I edit 4k video on the 6,1 and have never experienced 'laggy' behavior as you're describing. You weren't using a external usb hard drive to do this were you? Your third complaint sounds more like poor user media management/software issues than a complaint against an actual computer.
That's odd because I thought it did too, but I'm telling you on the output window in prefs the only option was headphones. I was using a Thunderbolt drive. Given the fact that the nMP can only be configured with 1TB from Apple (I know it goes higher 3rd party...) this is a very realistic editing situation since the entire premise of the new design is to utilize the I/O instead of internal drives. In my case, I would be forced to since my storage exceeds the possible 1 or 2TB internal SSD many times over. And yes I am not complaining about the computer having poor hardware, I was simply stating that in the time that I spent with it "plug and play" it didn't impress me at all. FWIW when I edit on my 5,1 I use internal hard drives via the SATA ports without RAID.
We don't know anything about your 5,1 configuration, but we know something about your 6,1 configuration.
You opted for the more powerful D700 and just a quad core ? It seems unbalanced to me ...
I'm not really an expert in the field, but FCP X running slow on a MP 6,1 doesn't seem very credible.
I'm not even commenting on the internal speaker. They are there and they are useless as every internal speaker on every computer.
2x2.93gHz (12 core), 48GB RAM 1333mHz, R9 280X 3G, 1TB Samsung 840 EVO (2013 edition) with 3x4TB HGST Deskstars inside, running Mavericks. The 6,1 was not mine. It was actually one of many machines at one of the many computer labs at UC Berkeley, where the director offered us to meet and edit his film. The first session we did I was on a quad core with 16GB and D500s (also poor performance editing via Thunderbolt). In another lab (no 24 hour access) they had some nice 8 core 48GB D700 models.
As I stated earlier the outputs in system preferences the outputs listed headphones only... do the internal speakers go away when headphones are plugged in? I fully agree about FCP X running slow on a 6,1 not seeming very credible. That's why I felt compelled to post about this incredulousness.
I would agree that 6,1 has no problem with FCPX.
Perhaps something else unrelated to 6,1 was involved, like a slow portable hd, a codec problem, other tasks running at the same time, a software installation problem ( the project's disappearance may be an indication) etc.
As I understand this nMP was not yours, so it was in uncontrolled by you condition (?), your setup (5,1) may be better maintained and optimized.
Zwhaler I really think that something else was the cause of the worst performance, not the 6,1, but in any case I would like to know about your 5,1 setup to be sure.
And about the speaker missing, yes, there is a speaker installed, suitable for the startup chime.
2x2.93gHz (12 core), 48GB RAM 1333mHz, R9 280X 3G, 1TB Samsung 840 EVO (2013 edition) with 3x4TB HGST Deskstars inside, running Mavericks. I'm definitely not trying to brag or anything I was just uber surprised that when I sat down to do this project there really was no performance benefit. Also this session represented Apple's vision of editors using the plethora of I/O to edit versus internal drives as was often the norm 5,1 and earlier. I'm sure that if I edited off of the internal SSD that it would be super quick, and probably would have eliminated the lagginess. But that goes against the entire premise of the new design, and wouldn't make sense since when we left the lab we took the drive and data with us. Not to mention that my 5,1 performed better when using hard drives via SATA without RAID... it would be even better if I used my SSD boot drive. No question the nMP
should be much faster in all cases. I'm just not sure why it wasn't.
What's particularly revealing about this is I would bet that the vast majority of people calling the nMP a failure are users like Zwhaler who really don't know any better and join the popular narrative that the nMP is a failure, but when you actually hear the reasons, it's like... oh that has nothing to do with the design of the nMP, you just didn't know what you were doing.
That's not in any way to discredit the folks who have legitimate gripes, etc., but as someone who's seen this kind of stuff for 30 years, more often than not, it's "user error". Macs, PCs, OSX, Windows, it's all the same (well actually, there's nothing worse than wannabe Mac fanboys). Tons of people with little actual knowledge and experience will pontificate as though they're an expert, and then you dig a little deeper and realize they don't know what they're talking about (and that's not directed at Zwhaler, I'm just using his post as a topic point).
That is a fair perspective, however there is a legitimate degree of validity to my conclusions (not meant as a generalization, only as one specific experience) as someone who sat down to do an editing session using the latest software and hardware (admittedly quad core, but still very high clock speed and still current in the Apple Store as of 2015) with Thunderbolt, yet experienced sluggish performance. The idea behind buying an expensive computer is that I should get some type of VIP experience in the speed department. Apple says the future is to edit with I/O and not internally, yet Thunderbolt was just
okay. Sure its been around for almost 5 years but my 5 year old machine with hard drives that spin still feels faster than that.
As I stated before, I'm not silly enough to think that the 6,1 is actually slower. Quite the contrary. However, I felt compelled to share my experience as it didn't match up with my expectations. As far as design is concerned, and since you brought it up, I do think that Apple missed an opportunity with the 6,1. I've been saying this for years and I'll say it again–they really should have gone dual processor. Imagine the insanity of having twice the RAM slots and up to 64,000 Geekbench out of the box. Now that is a professional machine. But instead the 6,1 quad, six, and eight cores still don't crunch numbers like my long outdated 5,1. Only the 12 core model outperforms multicore and even then it's maybe by 20% at best. As for the supposed single core performance, I wasn't seeing it. The thing took ages to render in the timeline as well. I really was left confused by this, as I would love for the machine to fly and to rave about the speed... it was 6am and I wanted to get out of there! I do understand why they removed the PCIe expansion. That being said, there is no question that it is useful and convenient to have. Heck, I'm out of slots on my 5,1 and could use more!
In conclusion, I don't think the 6,1 is an abject failure but it definitely isn't a hit. If I got a 12 core with 64GB RAM and D700s for Christmas it would literally be more of a headache than it's worth. I have a very streamlined recording studio connected to my machine and I would need to buy a Thunderbolt card for my Apollo just to be able to connect it ($500) and would then need an external PCIe chassis to house my Super Harvard Architecture Single-Chip Computer modules. I have no idea how I would connect my LED Cinema display plus a second display with VGA through a single HDMI port (it's probably pretty easy but still not convenient). I would also need to rethink my entire USB 3.0 hub solution.
You see what I'm saying? If you get paid to edit 4K+ all day then yeah it's worth it but I can do just fine with mine by switching between Proxy and Original media. And no 10 gigabit ethernet? Give me a break. Once USB Type-C gets thrown in the mix things are going to get really messy for awhile and once the dust settles it might be worth it to pick one up.
Is it user error that the nMP doesn't have slots? Is it user error the nMP doesn't have internal storage? Is it user error the nMP is limited to a single CPU? Frankly I have seen no one complain about the performance of the nMP as it relates to what it is. It's what it isn't that its detractors have an issue with.
Yes, if I moved my video content (average library size is 3.95TB) back and forth to my nMP 6,1 5TB internal SSD that doesn't exist then I would have a great time enjoying those built in speeds. But they want us to use Thunderbolt, USB 3, Thunderbolt 2, etc. I used Thunderbolt and it was super meh. Plus that doesn't even factor in connecting my UAD PCIe cards for editing via an expensive Thunderbolt 2 chassis... another annoyance. I think the nMP is still in its infancy and expect it to get better. But I probably won't jump on the bandwagon for another two generations.
