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Is the new Mac Pro a failure?
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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Correct.
Price lists don't matches.
And that's the reason why some users won't buy any Boxx (or Dell, or HP) machines.
OS X.
but in the PC market.. the market everyone at this forum is gathered around.. they will not make a big workstation again.
....
apple is hyped on this thing.. they're proud of the accomplishments.. and rightly so.. probably to the extent of- even if nobody ever bought one and it was a complete disaster/flop, apple would continue to make them just for their own internal use ; )
fwiw, @ all of the various pros here.. lets not forget apple inc has all the various genres in-house and using these computers ..cad,graphics,video,audio,photo,etc.. and chances are, those individuals are more talented than us individuals.. i wonder if they share similar sentiments re:nmp as the pros here do .. "stoopid tim! i need a mvc!" (or whatever)
And you know this because you speak with tim daily? You're our oracle are you? You deemed it so, so it must be? I'll take the speculation of any pro here over yours readily, and that's all that is, your personal opinion. It carries no more weight than anyone else's here, and in some eyes, significantly less so. Pompously presenting it as fact is less so about fact, and more so about character and ego of the presenter.
And apple is making tools for a broader population than themselves.
here's a problem.
this is the computer you* want:
http://www.boxxtech.com/products/workstations/apexx-workstations
the exact computer you want is right there.
that you don't recognize you want it is beyond me because pretty much everything you pine for is included in these boxxes.. is that right?
but i think the chances are moderate-to-decent for you to say "hey tim, here's what i want: ___ ___"
then tim says "oh.. haven't you heard of boxx yet?"
Who the heck are you to tell others what computer they want? People have spoken for themselves here, and the majority want a mac that better serves a wider diversity of professionals. Hey, I decided I think you really want to go and take etiquette class on basic manners. Here', let me put a smiley here because that makes it all better.
In the perfect world, a person proclaiming to be tired of this topic and hating how this topic creeps into other threads wouldn't be in this thread.
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no.. just perceptive is all.. (and in this case, you only have to be mildly perceptive to see this)
so when 7,1 releases and it's the same size/shape as 6,1..
..are you going to revisit this thread and think 'oh, ok.. maybe his opinion holds some weight'..
or.. probably not?
probably just find something else to insult me over.. and find a way to tell me i'm wrong even in light of facts.. i've seen this all before in your club and i'm expecting nothing less of you.
citing?
are you talking about me? have i said what you're implying?
no
Um, no, that's your perspective. And again, yours is of no greater weight than anyone elses here.
And when the 7,1 comes out and it's another trashcan, which I fully expect it will be, it will add no weight to your opinions in my eyes. And will continue to support my view that your continued ability to miss the point on your rudeness is near infinite.
sorry.. all opinions are not created equal..
further, if you want to continue preaching on about opinions and perspectives and equality.. you should really start practicing what you preach.
i only know of one or 2 people around here that do this as much as you: completely discount anything anyone says as "it's only your opinion" ..while being all too insistent with shoving your baloney down people's throats.
i don't know how to respond to that. really, i don't.
i already said what i had to say on the matter a few pages back and don't think it's helpful to restate..
thanks for the laugh, i guess.
off to coffee.. see ya.
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Now you're getting it.
You're inability to see how you cast all your statements of opinion as facts, and your rudeness of constantly denigrating people as "pros" or not pros, is truly a spectacle.
A great solution would be for Apple to support Apple OSX on some specific third-party workstations, and sell supported OSX for them. (And don't bring up the clone wars, this would be very different.)
I'm sure that many would be happy to pay $299 or $399 to Apple to have OSX support for a Z-series or Precision.
Apple could do this by reselling specific configs with an "
Certified" badge (or approved HP or Dell base configs). The TPM could be used to lock the systems down, if needed.These configs wouldn't have to overlap the MP6,1 - they could be higher end or maybe even dual socket only. Some overlap might be good, however, like for the people who really only need a quad core with PCIe slots.
Yep, that would be a solution. But I'm not expecting Apple to do that ... An officially supported HP workstation would be best of both worldsA great solution would be for Apple to support Apple OSX on some specific third-party workstations, and sell supported OSX for them. (And don't bring up the clone wars, this would be very different.)
I'm sure that many would be happy to pay $299 or $399 to Apple to have OSX support for a Z-series or Precision.
Apple could do this by reselling specific configs with an "
These configs wouldn't have to overlap the MP6,1 - they could be higher end or maybe even dual socket only. Some overlap might be good, however, like for the people who really only need a quad core with PCIe slots.
A great solution would be for Apple to support Apple OSX on some specific third-party workstations, and sell supported OSX for them. (And don't bring up the clone wars, this would be very different.)
I'm sure that many would be happy to pay $299 or $399 to Apple to have OSX support for a Z-series or Precision.
Apple could do this by reselling specific configs with an "
These configs wouldn't have to overlap the MP6,1 - they could be higher end or maybe even dual socket only. Some overlap might be good, however, like for the people who really only need a quad core with PCIe slots.
That would be wonderful. I’d pay $300-$400 for OS X on a system of my choosing (within limits).
Video encoding now is done Tru openCL using the gpu, cpu only works moving data from ram to the gpu and the mass storage, this is for every popular codec (x264/x265/vp8/vp9 among other orders).
One thing curiously not named is the lack of ecc memory on the Mac pros gpus this prevent using it for some applications as adn research.
I did mentioned it, either in this thread or in the related other one. The lack of ecc gpu ram kind of renders the main ram ecc moot if you are using OpenCL heavy gpgpu processing application as the end result coming back from your gpus can't be certified error proof. And since the main point of the nMP is its super duper OpenCL gpgpu performance... well...
Then sadly they have three choices
1.) What Apple offer
2.) Keep upgrading that 4,1 and 5,1 machines till cannot do any more, finding ways to keep OSX going on it like people have with the 1,1 and 2,1
3.) Fully fledged Hackintosh
Would have to be someone else as IBM no longer make anything other then big-tin. x86 Server and Desktop/Laptop/WorkStation are all Lenovo.
They have partnered with IBM to sell into Enterprise already. IBM aren't going to want to be selling HP or Dell, and years ago Dell apparently tried to do this with Apple whereby select Dell machines would be able to run OSX officially. Apple weren't interested.
Back in 1994/95 when I was doing my year out at University at a large pharmaceutical company so 20 years ago, if you had a problem with the PC, it wasn't come and fix it. A new PC with fresh image arrived, yours disappeared off for re-imaging, or if hardware issue replacing under warranty and the replacement went into stock awaiting next fault.
The nMP fits in real nice with that model.
Your local Storage and maybe AddIn Cards are in external enclosure. Pop along with a nice light nMP, disconnect the Keyboard,Mouse,Monitor and the TB cables. Connect to new one and up and running.
Now compare
Lug a 5,1 over, start swapping out addin cards etc, unless carrying all of those as well spare. Start transferring the storage disks out of the existing one to the new one etc. You can see where going with this.
These days the data is more likely in Enterprise to back on the Storage Network rather then local but you get the idea.
http://hexus.net/business/news/enterprise/88868-it-pros-expect-macs-replace-pcs-unprecedented-rate/
Shock News a company that sells Mac Integration software, the one that IBM is using to integrate the Macs selling into Enterprise is showing results from a survey of IT Professionals that they expect Macs to replace PC's.
As is rightly pointed out, the people polled will all be people already using Macs in there Enterprise, so already started doing the replacement.
Shock News a company that sells Mac Integration software, the one that IBM is using to integrate the Macs selling into Enterprise is showing results from a survey of IT Professionals that they expect Macs to replace PC's.
As is rightly pointed out, the people polled will all be people already using Macs in there Enterprise, so already started doing the replacement.
Actually not a big concern for video or audio, even CAD, but for analysis applications it's an issue, here is where Apple targets it's a pro machine except for certain science and analysis applications where Apple is not an competitor, so here I see they trade off Apple wanted a pro machine with the company identify also attractive for its intended users (despite lack of ecc vram the gpu processing power on the nMP it's an bargain W9000 cards costs almost the same as the base Mac Pro and for 1000$ extra you can get two of this inside the nMP).
Anyway Apple will do great if the next Fiji (gpu)/Skylake (cpu) based nMP offer again full ECC and more flexible thermals/psu as the current is limited to deliver full performance for long time.
A GPU upgradeable While an point of honor for some people here I don't see it as an real issue but is necessary a new approach on the machine one need and the machine I can buy, sell try to get the best, but I ordered mine with two D700 and the base six core and 16GB I think I I'll update it to the new model, I'll sell the older (now is 8 core and 128GB) I'll pay a difference sure for the new nMP but not that big as the benefits I get from it.
Those aren't W9000 cards. Fail to your whole argument.
Does the Apple BTO menu show W9000 cards? No. The MP6,1 shows some random Apple names that don't appear anywhere else - but the hardware ID advertised by a D700 shows up as a Radeon 7970 in many tools.
Apple marketing is less honest than Donald Trump.
Remember when they loudly marketed the original Time Machine as have "server class" hard drives, when in fact they were off-the-shelf desktop drives. (The models were HGST "Deskstar" drives - does the name give you a clue?)
OpenCl is used for realtime playback while editing, certain effects/filters and exporting using the Apple Devices Preset (GPU only if the format is h.264). To my knowledge FCPX does not yet support h.265.
Rendering out the timeline, and exporting are CPU bound activities. Having a second CPU would double core counts available for these tasks..
You are correct, the VRAM is not EEC enabled.
It appears the nMP was solely designed around Thunderbolt.
I've yet to see a standard desktop GPU card with thunderbolt outputs.
I've yet to see a standard desktop GPU card with thunderbolt outputs.
In my (and some others) opinion it was a horrible mistake to require bundling a DisplayPort video channel on T-Bolt. How on earth did Intel let Apple slip that monstrosity into the spec?
By bundling video, they put the DP signal (from the video card) onto the same wires as the PCIe bus expansion from the motherboard.
Very hard to do unless the DP signals are already on the motherboard (like they are with integrated graphics, or discreet graphics on the motherboard). Quite hard to do if the graphics card is a nice, dual slot high performance CUDA card.
T-Bolt would be a resounding success, with lots of cheap T-Bolt devices available, if DP wasn't required.
Instead, it's a premium-priced niche product, thanks to Apple.
Aiden you're wrong, Apple actually fitted a custom W9000 with non-ecc VRAM and derated clock to meet the 110W TDP and AMD branded it as D700, just google "mac pro D700 W9000" you'll find lots of detailed info about (and benchmarks).
About HGST Deskstar, I don't know the History you tell but I'm familiar with HGST Desktar line, their 3TB version is the most reliable HDD you can buy this world, google again "most reliables HDD chart" you'll find some interesting stats from online storage provider BackBlaze. HGST dekstar despite being originally marketed as Desktop HDD, they actually are the common name at the serverfarms.
I'm not familiar with FCP but very familiar with FFMPEG and Handbrake both uses OpenCL for accelerated transcoding, and the results are amazing, both support x265 .
I'm not convinced by your argument, x265 still not an stable specification, this means official tools from apple will not implement it yet, I ve used a lot of video tools boosted by openCL and Cuda by long time and everyone allows GPU accelerated transcoding at every phase enough verified, most novelty is switch from CUDA to OpenCL, by long time GPU boosted transcoding was synonym of CUDA GPUs.
As with Mrs. Shaw, Check your argumentations against GOOGLE reference and tell me later if I'm wrong.
I smeels here a biased debate is so evident.
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I agree 100%, the new design was a mistake! I still can't understand the idea of plugging external drives into a video port, even though Thunderbolt supports data. It's just plain weird. When I was introduced to computers, video port were for video, data connections were for data.
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What was biased about my facts? I'm doing three exports right now! Only the Apple Devices preset is utilizing the GPU.
Read the section at the bottom of this case study about how FCPX uses GPGPU.
http://create.pro/blog/open-cl-vs-c...upport-gpgpugpu-acceleration-real-world-face/
Actually Digital Video is plain binary Data, another biased argument debunked.
FYI USB-C w/o thunderbolt also implemented this and other bus "multi-use" protocols (following Intel's "bad idea"...).
There is nothing wrong on TB2/DP, bandwidth share is transparent, when you plug an DP device it takes one of two data channels and leaves the other to TB (pci) data, works well, but many people ignores if thy plug an monitor to the TB2 daisy chain they use half bandwidth (or full bandwidth if dealing with 5K monitors).
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