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iPhone 16 Pro Max Issues with ProRAW 48 and stock camera app

shadowboi said:
ProCamera is my favorite so far if only the editing process wasn’t such a nightmare. I expect fully finished shot just without all the “makeup” and instead I have to extensively edit RAW files, one by one:

- turning off “boost” slider. Turns out it is a NATIVE Apple RAW setting and ProCamera and other RAW editors just provide access to it;
- Turn all the way down the luma noise reduction;
- Turn down a bit of a color noise reduction;
- Completely turn down sharpening;
- Touch up some contrast and/or saturation, natively iPhone RAW looks horrendous, especially if photos are taken during daytime;

All the edits take up 2-10 minutes. And when I have many shots it becomes so boring that I just don’t wanna even bother. I would much more like sliders in photos app to turn off unnecessary processing. I am more than sure this processing also sucks up battery life.

UPD: few more things.

When taking RAW photos in any app, auto settings do not always work properly. I.e. while great for static objects, in RAW mode iPhone no longer relies on accelerometer and gyroscope to determine the speed at which you move, i.e. it often fails to determine right shutter speed and ISO. I have often seen iPhone to overexpose unless I compensate exposure by -0.7 (not ideal tho, often had underexposure).

Another issue with RAW is that iPhone doesn’t provide a full RAW image preview, so I cannot see how my settings changes reflect in real time and can only guess if I did everything right. Sort of not used to it after more than decade of digital photography and live image previewing
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do pretty much the same. The editing is a lot of fun. I love taking a long walk and shooting photos and then spend some time in front of the computer to "develop" them. Editing is half the fun and with Regular RAW it is easy to get the shots exactly like I want them. No stock point and shoot camera will ever satisfy me.

My main issue with ProRAW is that this format makes it impossible for me to get the images the way I want. Not exactly what is expected from a RAW format...
 
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Honestly my true goto has been the midrange point-n-shoot camera I used in my comparison. The flexibility of its RAW files can't be matched by any of my phones for post editing. It also fits in a pocket!

Regarding Phones
For still photos, my goto is the Pixel 8 Pro, not the iPhone 16 Pro. With 50, 48, 48 Megapixel sensors, I enjoy the photos from my Pixel 8 Pro far more than my previous 15 Pro, and still in many cases I like the 1yo camera system over the 16 Pro. 16 Pro adding a bigger sensor to Ultra wide is great, but they still missed the boat on the 5X lens where it is often really nice to be able to crop in a little more. 12 Megapixel native just isn't enough for detail when I want to crop in a little on a long zoom shot.

For video however, the iPhone is impossible for the Pixel to beat. To this day, pixel phones drop frames far too often, and their OIS and DIS just isn't in the same league.

As an aside, The competition for phone cameras isn't Samsung, Google, or even Sony anymore. The phones we do not get from China have really raised the bar. Hoping Apple reacts by giving us modern pro camera hardware but including the option of a lighter touch RAW option that we are all asking for.

Some sample shots from my Sony ZV-1 pocket camera. Thing has so much RAW headroom since it has such a big sensor and true control of aperture and many other factors.

DSC00870.jpg.jpeg

Basic JPG Edit from RAW in Lightroom Classic.

DSC00553.jpeg

More Complex edit to produce a "Cinestill 800t" film effect, including adding a bit of film grain and light blur.

Straight out of the camera (photos you want to share) JPG or HEIF images from the Pixel or iPhone destroy the Sony, but the P&S takes far better RAW photos than either phone, with lots of data to work with.

jajo.j said:
Yeah, I do pretty much the same. The editing is a lot of fun. I love taking a long walk and shooting photos and then spend some time in front of the computer to "develop" them. Editing is half the fun and with Regular RAW it is easy to get the shots exactly like I want them. No stock point and shoot camera will ever satisfy me.

My main issue with ProRAW is that this format makes it impossible for me to get the images the way I want. Not exactly what is expected from a RAW format...
Click to expand...
Can you define "stock" point and shoot?

Artsketch said:
Yes, but are you sure 840quadra was using it too?
Click to expand...

The one linked is what I was using.

But to add salt, I ALSO have this one.
apps.apple.com

‎ProCam - Pro Camera

‎SHOOTING MODES - Photo - Burst Mode - Slow Shutter - Portrait Mode - supported on all dual lens camera system as well as iPhone XR and iPhone SE 2020 - 3D Photo - requires dual lens camera system - Video - Time Lapse PHOTO SHUTTER RELEASE OPTIONS - Self-Timer - Anti-Shake - Screen Shutter...
apps.apple.com

I like it better in some instances, purchased it originally in 2018 because I didn't like the initial processing for the Xs Max and it came recommended by a friend.
 
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840quadra said:
Can you define "stock" point and shoot?
Click to expand...

Using the camera software that comes with the phone and shooting without doing any post processing.

I also have a Pixel 8 Pro and although I like to use it for astro I really dislike Googles take on dynamic range. Shadows are lit so much that the entire image looks flat. But that is easily corrected with RAW on the Pixel. The main issue I have with Pixels is their horrible motion handling.

I just don't like how most stock cameras process the images in point and shoot. Xiaomi probably matches my liking best but I will never own a chinese phone again since they don't care about integrity and security updates.
 
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jajo.j said:
Using the camera software that comes with the phone and shooting without doing any post processing.

I also have a Pixel 8 Pro and although I like to use it for astro I really dislike Googles take on dynamic range. Shadows are lit so much that the entire image looks flat. But that is easily corrected with RAW on the Pixel. The main issue I have with Pixels is their horrible motion handling.

I just don't like how most stock cameras process the images in point and shoot. Xiaomi probably matches my liking best but I will never own a chinese phone again since they don't care about integrity and security updates.
Click to expand...
Gotcha!

I thought you were talking about dedicated cameras, not camera apps on phones.

Pixel can be a bit heavy on base images, but I prefer the tone / detail better than the iPhone. I lock mine into 50 / 48 megapixel and just run it. Honestly I find how iPhone boosts shadows to be far heavier, but may be that I am shooting in different situations.

Either way, choice is nice. Being able to change the default camera app on Android is a HUGE plus IMO, though I always revert back to google.
 
How I wish I studied about iOS camera apps that allow to shoot actual RAW first before I decided to use 48MP ProRAW of my iPhone 14 Pro Max [no longer with me] through the Apple Camera app... I only discovered a bit late that ProRAW is not the same RAW I shoot using my Nikon D5500 DSLR camera...

I now use an iPhone 13 Pro and since June 2024 [when I got the iPhone 13 Pro] until sometime earlier this month, I still used the default Camera app to shoot ProRAW but after reading about RAW and ProRAW [including this forum] and watching several YouTube videos, I decided to restart my iPhone photography with shooting actual RAW through the Pro Camera by Moment [no external lenses]

I actually wanted to swap my iPhone 13 Pro for an iPhone 11 Pro Max but found out that there is no way I can shoot Dolby Vision HDR videos with anything older than an iPhone 12... If there is an app that would allow as good quality as what Dolby Vision HDR has on iPhone 12 and newer, I may revisit the idea of switching to a pre-2020 iPhone...

I agree with the point that mobile videography crown still belongs to iPhone...
 
I’d say that this is pretty darn good!!!
The ProRaw (Default camera app) files on my iPhone are spectacular. I love zooming in and seeing the details.

Notice the two men at the doorway of the museum. Zoomed in at max zoom, 600% or more.

IMG_0165.jpeg


IMG_0166.png
 
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Nice to know that ProRAw 12 is working, it is also working for us.

ProRaw Max is not working properly for European Iphones at least. I contacted more people in other forums and thats a spread and identified (software) issue. Also , no solution so far, also confirmed by technical assistance. Only 3rd apps.
 
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Nothing so far. Even tho my photos are even batter with ios 18.1 with procam app (ProRaw 48), native results are the same mess. They cannot render properly. Pixelation everywhere
 
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Nothing new here so far.
They are still investigating this issue thats what i’been told this week… (Technical assistance). They also told me that more people are reporting this (which is good, cause it grows to another scale of implication).

Idk if the latest beta/developer releases improve or not this situation.
 
I updated both of my 16 Pro Max iPhones yesterday. One of them stayed the same the gold or desert titanium iPhone that sometimes has the focus issues got a little worse. It seems like these small incremental updates end up screwing around with the camera somehow. I can use the Moment app that I have and focus manually and it’s perfect but, the native camera is still a little soft and grainy or pixelated slightly so I’ll probably do another restore tonight and download everything from scratch and then push my back up back in. 18.2 it’s supposed to have a large camera update, hopefully they’ll add a fix for these cameras. Did Apple release this phone too early? I think they did. Too much focus on AI.
 
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I ran my iPhone 16pm through another restore last night to correct the 24mm main camera issue after downloading the security update 18.1.1. Not sure why these small updates screw the camera up so much. Apple has lost innovation I believe. I don’t care much about AI, or much else, I just want an awesome camera set!
 
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Update 22/11/2024:

Apple assistance contacted me today, about this situation.

They told the same thing.

They are still investigating, and this issue will be addressed in a future (big update) with some documentation/information explaining this issue.

They also explained me, that probably this issue will take more time to be resolved. I have no hopes for final version of iOS 18.2 to end this [they referred this as “low resolution" issue when zooming the photo].

Trillion Company by the way.
This is just anecdotic to say the least.
 
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nunolikeapple said:
Update 22/11/2024:

Apple assistance contacted me today, about this situation.

They told the same thing.

They are still investigating, and this issue will be addressed in a future (big update) with some documentation/information explaining this issue.

They also explained me, that probably this issue will take more time to be resolved. I have no hopes for final version of iOS 18.2 to end this [they referred this as “low resolution" issue when zooming the photo].

Trillion Company by the way.
This is just anecdotic to say the least.
Click to expand...
Probably because it’s something to do with the camera processing pipeline itself, viewing 48 MP ProRAW taken before iOS 18 doesn’t have this issue so I doubt it’s a simple fix like the Photos app
 
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nunolikeapple said:
Finally , somoene who finds the exact same problem that i find on my 16PM.

It occours only with native camera. Third party apps, shows normal results.
Click to expand...

I’ve been noticing the app hangs sometimes and is slow to take photo when I press shutter, also toggling lenses sometimes gets stuck in previous lens mode.
 
jajo.j said:
This is what needs to be done if Apple wants to call their "Pro"-phones as "Pro" in my humble opinion:

Software
  • ProRAW must allow manual controls like ISO and shutter speed. Right now these settings are ignored in third party apps that allow manual control when ProRAW is set as output format
  • Ideally, ProRAW should not be denoised at all. It should just be a stacked (multi-exposure) merge. Nothing else. Professionals will be able to achieve much better results with manual edits than Apple's automatic processing currently does. In fact, the current ProRAW implementation should be named "NoobRAW" because it basically does everything for you and not in the best way
  • It should be possible to take regular unstacked RAW (single frame) with 48MP, not just binned 12MP
  • There should be an option to disable automatic switching to digital zoom from 1x in low light or when focus distance is too close on 5x, especially when night mode is on (I will say though that 16PM can use the 5x tele in very bad light conditions and it is much better than 15PM in this area but it should be possible to do it manually in stock camera app). Third party apps do not switch, luckily.
  • Allow for even longer exposure time than 30s för night mode, like the Pixel phones
Hardware
  • Minimum focus distance on 1x and 5x is too long and these lenses are useless for any kind of macro photography. Sure, 0.5x works good for this. But if you ever tried a phone like Xiaomi 14 Ultra that can focus on 20cm with 5x lens, you don't want to go back... It is perfect for shooting macros when it is hard to get really close, like bugs and flowers.
  • 5x should be upgraded with a slightly bigger sensor and 48MP to allow for better quality shots when digital zoom is applied (above 5x)
  • The step between 1x and 5x is just too big which makes the focal lengths between 50mm and 120mm pretty much unusable. Xiaomi added a fourth camera (3x) to handle this problem and Apple should consider doing the same
16 Pro Max is overall the best camera system I have tested in a smartphone and I tested them all. I recently had the Pixel 9 Pro XL and Xiaomi 14 Ultra for testing (I am the founder of https://1x.com so I do a lot of camera tests). When using regular raw 12MP, the iPhone performs amazing results. It is just too bad that Apple is deliberately limiting the performance of this phone unless third party apps are used.

If Macrumors is interested in writing a story about this, they are welcome to contact me.
Click to expand...

Focus points, preferably multiple and selectable a la Xperia.
 
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nunolikeapple said:
No need replacement, because its not hardwere, but software, and also reproductable by others. Including another 3 16PM that i tested last hours from family, same issues. Only an update will solve this.
Click to expand...

Could be differently sources parts with different manufacturer tolerance levels.
 
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