Jaguar on newer 'unsupported' hardware

[Jubadub]

Over time, I slowly learned to appreciate not just key OS versions (9.2.2, 10.2.8, 10.4.11, 10.5.8 etc.), but also every subversion of a system, as well. For example, reportedly Classic behavior prior to 10.2.8 is desirable in some cases, and some version of Panther prior to 10.3.9 reportedly allows the creation of DMGs that are still compatible with Mac OS 9's PPC-only Disk Copy version. In the end, it's good to archive and master all the bits and pieces that make up these wonderful systems... So it doesn't surprise me that Puma (and earlier) might contain some nice blingy stuff absent elsewhere. Repeat the process long enough, and there will be room for appreciation even for beta pre-System-1 Mac OS, I'm sure. (There's an image of that in the MG, btw. Thing is from 1983.)

 

[Jubadub]

By the way, does anyone know if Jaguar has drivers for the GeForce 6800 Ultra AGP 8x GPU? Or is this a privilege only for Panther and later?

 

[Project Alice]

By the way, does anyone know if Jaguar has drivers for the GeForce 6800 Ultra AGP 8x GPU? Or is this a privilege only for Panther and later?

I tried booting Jaguar on my G5 with that card and it KP’d so I’m assuming no.

 

[Jubadub]

I tried booting Jaguar on my G5 with that card and it KP’d so I’m assuming no.

Thanks for testing. That's sad to hear...

Any odds of it working by putting relevant Panther kexts into a Jaguar G5 installation, or is that pretty much guaranteed to be zero? If I had a compatible G5 Jaguar machine, I'd love to try...

If nothing works, I wonder what's the best GPU that Jaguar can accept, since the best AGP GPU would then be ruled out.

 

[Amethyst1]

If nothing works, I wonder what's the best GPU that Jaguar can accept, since the best AGP GPU would then be ruled out.

I know that the Radeon 9600 and 9650 work, the latter conveniently bringing dual-link DVI to the table. They're not highend by any means though. The 9800 Pro is also compatible.

 

[Draefend]

I upgraded my Quicksilver with a FireGL X3 a few years ago and got it working with Jaguar, but sadly I can't boot into that partition since I got a Sonnet dual 1.8 GHz upgrade. Is there any way to get Jaguar working with that CPU?

 

[Jubadub]

I upgraded my Quicksilver with a FireGL X3 a few years ago and got it working with Jaguar, but sadly I can't boot into that partition since I got a Sonnet dual 1.8 GHz upgrade. Is there any way to get Jaguar working with that CPU?

This, but for Jaguar. You could also try spoofing your "cpu-version" property in OpenFirmware.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I upgraded my Quicksilver with a FireGL X3 a few years ago and got it working with Jaguar, but sadly I can't boot into that partition since I got a Sonnet dual 1.8 GHz upgrade. Is there any way to get Jaguar working with that CPU?

This, but for Jaguar. You could also try spoofing your "cpu-version" property in OpenFirmware.

should not be needed, 10.2.8 will just boot on a 7447A it wont recognise it, but it should still boot, although I have not tested it on a dual 7447A machine (but Jag has no halt on unknown CPU check)

 

[Jubadub]

should not be needed, 10.2.8 will just boot on a 7447A it wont recognise it, but it should still boot, although I have not tested it on a dual 7447A machine (but Jag has no halt on unknown CPU check)

I remember you guys pointing out how CPU checks only became a thing with the G5 version, and with Panther and later. But for some reason, all CPU upgrade manuals I have seen very specifically say that, after the upgrade, only Panther and later will work, and Mac OS 9.2.2.

I wonder why. Maybe their patches don't play nicely with Jaguar? I don't know. Maybe it needs a different NVRAM patch? Or maybe the vendors just didn't want to provide Jaguar support, even if it works.

 

[Draefend]

Whenever I try booting into Jaguar the grey Apple logo is replaced by a prohibitory symbol. I've tried booting another Jaguar install from a firewire disk with the same result.

Verbose mode gives:

From path: "/pci@f2000000/Generic-680-R1@14/sd@0:12,\mach_kernel", Waiting on <dict ID="0"><key>IOPathMatch</key><string ID="1">IODeviceTree:/pci@f2000000/Generic-680-R1@14/sd@0:12</string></dict>
in6_ifattach_linklocal: Failed to configure a link-local address on lo0 (errno=55)
Still waiting for root device

 

[Jubadub]

Whenever I try booting into Jaguar the grey Apple logo is replaced by a prohibitory symbol. I've tried booting another Jaguar install from a firewire disk with the same result.

Verbose mode gives:

From path: "/pci@f2000000/Generic-680-R1@14/sd@0:12,\mach_kernel", Waiting on <dict ID="0"><key>IOPathMatch</key><string ID="1">IODeviceTree:/pci@f2000000/Generic-680-R1@14/sd@0:12</string></dict>
in6_ifattach_linklocal: Failed to configure a link-local address on lo0 (errno=55)
Still waiting for root device

Did you try booting without any PCI device connected yet, by any chance?

 

[Draefend]

The only PCI-card installed is an ATA-card that the HDD is connected to, since the built in bus only supports a maximum drive size of 128GB on the 2001 QS.

 

[Macbookprodude]

What is really so special about Jaguar ? Unless someone can tell me a modern browser can run on it, its not worth it to run it, really we all should be using Linux as Leopard is not safe anymore.

 

[Jubadub]

The only PCI-card installed is an ATA-card that the HDD is connected to, since the built in bus only supports a maximum drive size of 128GB on the 2001 QS.

It may be a pain to pull that card out, but I think it's worth a try. The error you got seemed to suggest it's an issue with a PCI device connected to it. Of course, I could be wrong, but without any other leads, it's all we know.

What is really so special about Jaguar ? Unless someone can tell me a modern browser can run on it, its not worth it to run it, really we all should be using Linux as Leopard is not safe anymore.

It's the latest OS that runs a lot of Mac OS software that Panther, Tiger and especially Leopard and non-Apple systems cannot. Others may like the look & feel, too. Other than that, hardly much reason. But all this is already more than enough reason.

True safety is only possible if your computer is an air gap computer (zero networking and zero usage of devices that were once connected to the device in other devices). Having PowerPC Macs (as opposed to Intel/AMD/ARM computers, from Apple or otherwise) is already a security bonus (no CPU-level backdoor). GNU/Linux extra security only if you use a libre distro, the closest to which is Debian (on PowerPC), assuming you install only libre software, drivers included, avoiding any binary blob. All other systems have binary blobs. But even if you do all this, security flaws are everywhere, and there's certainly intelligence interest to keep things that way as much as possible.

Mac OS X by most standards is pretty "secure", though, as far as practical matters are concerned, and as far as recent OSes are concerned. But you are more than free to make any choice you'd like.

 

[Amethyst1]

What is really so special about Jaguar ?

You've asked this same question already (e.g. post #39 in this thread), and received answers. Why do you ask again and again?

we all should be using Linux as Leopard is not safe anymore.

Are you using Linux as you "should", then?

Unless someone can tell me a modern browser can run on it, its not worth it to run it,

A browser is not the be all and end all of computing.

 

[Amethyst1]

Having PowerPC Macs (as opposed to Intel/AMD/ARM computers, from Apple or otherwise) is already a security bonus (no CPU-level backdoor).

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a few vulnerabilities in PowerPC CPUs too.

It's the latest OS that runs a lot of Mac OS software that Panther, Tiger and especially Leopard and non-Apple systems cannot.

Which software are you referring to? The only thing I can readily think of is the Classic environment.

 

[Jubadub]

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a few vulnerabilities in PowerPC CPUs too.


Which software are you referring to? The only thing I can readily think of is the Classic environment.

"Mac OS", as in, the original Mac OS system, so everything that predates X. So, yes, Classic environment for Mac OS apps (decent version thereof, more specifically).

CPU vulnerabilities/exploitables are certainly on every CPU, as far as I'm aware. What I meant is that all PowerPC CPUs (POWER10 pending, though) lack a built-in backdoor system with full network access, especially a non-yet-removable one. I believe we touched upon this before. I just addressed this to let @Macbookprodude know that, if concerned about security, there's a lot more to consider beyond the OS and its age, and that maybe learning about that is within his interests.

 

[Amethyst1]

"Mac OS", as in, the original Mac OS system, so everything that predates X.

Upon reading your post a second time, it occurred to me that "Mac OS" means pre-X. Sorry for not getting it right away.

 

[Jubadub]

It's also a bit my fault for stubbornly calling pre-OS-X stuff just "Mac OS".

 

[Project Alice]

What is really so special about Jaguar ? Unless someone can tell me a modern browser can run on it, its not worth it to run it, really we all should be using Linux as Leopard is not safe anymore.

Then why are you even here exactly? Clearly nobody in this sub-forum cares about that.

You've asked this same question already (e.g. post #39 in this thread), and received answers. Why do you ask again and again?


Are you using Linux as you "should", then?


A browser is not the be all and end all of computing.

I had to do a double take...I could have sworn I was on the most recent page of this thread. I am!

 

[Jubadub]

I had to do a double take...I could have sworn I was on the most recent page of this thread. I am!

I think he probably forgot about it. I can relate, as there are some times I repeat myself...

The cure: he needs to use more Jaguar. I need to use more Jaguar. If only I can kick my 2.7GHz back to life to try spoofing cpu-version, that'd be great. Will probably repaste CPUs with the newly-released Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme. I also need to learn when is the time to replace things like liquid (and other things?) in the LCS, and how to do so... It sucks being a hardware n00b sometimes, as those extra-hot Macs require special care to survive.

Incidentally, do we have a thread like this, but for Puma and/or Cheetah? I kinda wonder if I can get an MDD to accept those somehow. They all are AltiVec-enabled OSes and as such should be able to handle any G4...

 

[Amethyst1]

I kinda wonder if I can get an MDD to accept those somehow.

@LightBulbFun got Puma to boot on an MDD.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Jaguar runs fully on my Titanium 1ghz with no issues.

 

[Amethyst1]

Jaguar runs fully on my Titanium 1ghz with no issues.

That machine shipped with Jaguar. Wrong thread.

 

[Macbookprodude]

That machine shipped with Jaguar. Wrong thread.

I know it did.. just wanted to have a little fun. But, in all seriousness, good luck to those who want to run Jaguar and internet on it.