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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,360
12,603
So right now SD would be the most common format in cameras. Yes there are increasing numbers of high end cameras which use CFExpress, but they are the minority of bodies in peoples hands. As important as true 'pros' are for buying the high end MBP, I imagine Apple envisages selling a lot more to consumers, simply because there are a lot more of them, and most of them will be carrying around cameras which use SD cards.

So the option was to have no card support (when it is a heavily requested feature), include a CFExpress port (which needs more bandwidth and most purchasers won't have a camera currently that use it) or use an SD slot (which the majority of purchasers are using cameras which use SD).

In several years time as CFExpress becomes more ubiquitous that may well change, but by then Apple are hoping you will also be changing your MacBook Pro for whatever they are offering then.

To be clear, as I stated earlier in this thread, adding SD does nothing for me and I think it's kind of retrograde to add support for a dying format, but I don't much care. I won't use that feature. It appears to have precluded a feature I could have used (another USB port). The new machines weren't designed for me alone. I'll deal with it.

That said, there's been a ton of people complaining about the lack of SD slots for the past few years and arguing that the MBP isn't "pro" because it doesn't include that slot. In that context, I'm simply voicing and supporting my view.

The return of SD kind of surprises me. This hasn't been Apple's approach in the past-- they've tried to motivate the industry to move to newer and better standards. The regression to SD is counter to that history.

I do believe that there is some circular reasoning driving this. I think people like SD cards in their cameras because their computers make it easy to use them, and people like SD slots in their computers because their cameras have one. If Apple put in a CFExpress slot, which is clearly where we're moving to in the future, I think it would help drive convergence to the better standard.

And I think it's fine to argue that there are more non-pros with SD cards than pros using other things, and that's a fine reason for Apple to support it, but that argument can't easily coexist with arguments about whether the MBP is "sufficiently pro" or arguments that "the industry" wants SD. "The industry" is leaving SD. The more Pro the camera equipment, the more quickly you'll see the transition to better standards.
 

bgillander

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2007
1,025
1,049
To be clear, as I stated earlier in this thread, adding SD does nothing for me and I think it's kind of retrograde to add support for a dying format, but I don't much care. I won't use that feature. It appears to have precluded a feature I could have used (another USB port). The new machines weren't designed for me alone. I'll deal with it.

That said, there's been a ton of people complaining about the lack of SD slots for the past few years and arguing that the MBP isn't "pro" because it doesn't include that slot. In that context, I'm simply voicing and supporting my view.

The return of SD kind of surprises me. This hasn't been Apple's approach in the past-- they've tried to motivate the industry to move to newer and better standards. The regression to SD is counter to that history.

I do believe that there is some circular reasoning driving this. I think people like SD cards in their cameras because their computers make it easy to use them, and people like SD slots in their computers because their cameras have one. If Apple put in a CFExpress slot, which is clearly where we're moving to in the future, I think it would help drive convergence to the better standard.

And I think it's fine to argue that there are more non-pros with SD cards than pros using other things, and that's a fine reason for Apple to support it, but that argument can't easily coexist with arguments about whether the MBP is "sufficiently pro" or arguments that "the industry" wants SD. "The industry" is leaving SD. The more Pro the camera equipment, the more quickly you'll see the transition to better standards.
There are quite a few professions besides photography.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Why a TB4/USB-C is more useful than fixed single purpose port/slot?

For HDMI, there are straight USB-C to HDMI cable. You don’t even need a dongle.
As for SD card slot, you can just plug in your camera straight via USB without taking the SD card out. Again, no dongles needed, just USB cable. Many smaller devices now use microSD anyway (which is why most Windows laptops have opted for microSD slot instead of full SD slot).

So that one TB4 port can already be used for the two purposes from the two large single purpose port/slot. This is why imo I prefer more TB4/USB-C ports for complete versatility. And space shouldn’t even be an issue on the 16” model.

In any case, what’s done is done. Apple really needed to boost the interest with these first gen devices, that means capturing those who are holding on their older Macs, skipping the whole USB-C only period. I’m guessing the next redesign a few years after this will revert back to TB/USB-C only design.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
SD is obsolete for most photo and video. XQD and CFExpress are the things now. I need to carry an XQD adapter anyway, but now I have less USBC ports to plug it into. I kind of think the inclusion of SD was less for “the industry” and specifically for the non-pro complainer crowd.

Then again I appreciate the HDMI port. So I guess I have to accept that this machine wasn’t designed with only me in mind.

Bold for emphasis. That is the entire point of all of the replies to this thread: the fact that someone is trying to pigeonhole everyone and their individual requirements and use cases into their own use case and uses that to complain about what he doesn't need and assumes everyone else doesn't need.

He assumes that everyone is coming from a nearly recent model (which isn't true), and because of that, assumes that we already have all accessories needed to compensate (which also isn't true). It's best that people like that drop their assumptions and misperceptions of what everyone else wants because it isn't what they want.

BL.
 

smithdr

macrumors regular
Aug 17, 2021
210
130
Why is this thread 11 pages long? I am in the camp of 4 TB4 ports no MagSafe. Others like MagSafe, SD slot and HDMI. This thread changes nothing. The new MBPs have MagSafe, SD card and HDMI. Case closed. Those of that do not like MagSafe do not have to use it. We can also stick dust plugs in HDMI and SD ports.

This debate needs to end!
 
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flapflapflap

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2013
768
439
In this guy's video, the SD card barely fits inside the slot. It doesn't look like we'll get something that's flush. I was hoping to leave it in there permanently for extra storage. bummer?

(around the 5:46 mark)
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,366
10,126
Atlanta, GA
In this guy's video, the SD card barely fits inside the slot. It doesn't look like we'll get something that's flush. I was hoping to leave it in there permanently for extra storage. bummer?

(around the 5:46 mark)
Sure if you are using regular sd cards. However, there have been plenty of dedicated low profile drives. This is one example.
C0E53642-0F95-4FE1-9A2D-9F976A20B10E.jpeg
 
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flapflapflap

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2013
768
439
That is exactly what I’m looking for. Would you please let me know which low-profile you are using and is that for the new M1 MBP’s? Thanks!
it's probably not compatible. need to wait for ones that are custom made for these new models.
 

Zdigital2015

macrumors 601
Jul 14, 2015
4,143
5,622
East Coast, United States
So let me throw out a couple thousand of dollars worth of totally functional and useful equipment because the industry standards have evolved...

And no, within the last 15 months, we purchased $8K worth of video cameras for a live stream function... most DSLRs don't offer SDI output for streaming function...
I can purchase an HDMI to SDI converter if necessary as long as I am getting clean output from the HDMI port. It really depends on whether the price is worth the tradeoff of having SDI onboard versus using a competent ILC/DSLR/Mirrorless camera, of which many exist.
 

MGrayson3

macrumors regular
Jul 30, 2013
166
625
I NEVER use the pipe character Shift-\. It's OUTRAGEOUS that this laptop comes with it. I'm paying for something utterly useless. NO pros use the pipe character. Unix is ANCIENT.

(This guy uses digital medium format and SD cards.) Ok. Enough feeding the you-now-what.
 

AZhappyjack

Suspended
Jul 3, 2011
10,183
23,657
Happy Jack, AZ
I can purchase an HDMI to SDI converter if necessary as long as I am getting clean output from the HDMI port. It really depends on whether the price is worth the tradeoff of having SDI onboard versus using a competent ILC/DSLR/Mirrorless camera, of which many exist.

True, but that introduces another problem - power. Most of the decent converters require AC power so in addition to dealing with the cables and the converter, you have to have a power source at the point of the converter. We used Decimater MD-LX for our fixed cameras... but go straight SDI back to the switcher for the roving cameras... just too much to fail.
 
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Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
Um, Have you ever heard of a usb drive? Thumstick drive? There can be about 100 times faster and much smaller than those obsolete cards.
You do realized that SD UHS-II can read or write at over 300MB/s don't you? I think you'd struggle to find any thumb drive (even USB 3.1 models) that write that fast. External SSDs, yes, but most USBs use slower flash memory, so SD cards are a good alternative

UHS-III does 300MB/s full-duplex.

SD-Express has specs that can go up to almost 4GB/s. That's faster than any CFExpress, although they are not yet available, and I wouldn't bet that SD-Express will win against CFExpress. It's another BetaMax vs VHS race...the best one doesn't always win.

1635467367478.png
 

Krizoitz

macrumors 68000
Apr 26, 2003
1,809
2,258
Tokyo, Japan
The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.

MagSafe was a mess. Yeah it was branded well but I didnt like it because my cables were always ruined and I had to spend a lot of money replacing it. Imo TB3/4 works great and haven’t had to replace it once.

Good grief… ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ That was a step backwards and for very little gain. The size is perfect. Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.
Get over yourself. Just because YOU don’t use them doesn’t mean many other people don’t. YOU are not the majority of users. YOU are not the center of the universe.

I am thrilled to get MagSafe and HDMI back. MagSafe means when I leave my desk to go to a meeting at work I don’t have to be constantly plugging and unplugging my power cable, which adds wear and tear to the connector and makes both the cable and the port more loose (since USB-C is a friction only connector unlike Lightning). And having HDMI built in means plugging in to a monitor or displaying to the conference room TVs is just plug and play instead of having to worry about an adapter. Both changes will make my workflow easier. And while I have no personal use for the SDCard that doesn’t mean others don’t. So yeah, you are not the center of the universe, stop acting like you are.
 

Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
Sorry, let me correct myself. A prosumer won’t spend $3000 for a camera and hobble it with a $50 SD card.
Why would it be hobbled? I use $50 SD cards in my $3000 cameras....they work fine, so why should I spend more money? I can take 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 videos that look great and it's always taken photos when I press the button without missing a beat.

They is some kind of delusion that you "need" super fast media for everything. Yes, CFExpress is faster, but not as fast as people think. Here is some info on "buffer clearing" times and the number of buffered shots that a Canon R5 will support with both CFExpress and SD cards:
1635468143777.png


You can get anout 7 seconds of stills at 20fps or 146 frames with CFExpress and 5.5 seconds or 110 frames with the SD card. It's not a huge difference. If you a professional those extra frames could be critical - if you really need to take 20fps (for sports, nature etc.).

If you are taking portraits at one frame every 3-5 seconds, then I doubt it matters.

Also bear in mind that while the media can be fast, it's limited by the speed of the camera, which are much less powerful than your computer. e.g. for the Canon R5 again.

1635468408055.png


The in-camera write speed of CFExpress is much slower than the media will support via USB and only up to 70% faster than SD.

CFExpress is definitely "better" than SD, but it's more than is needed for many users (myself included). I can see the following reasons for choosing CFExpress over SD:

1) You need to take a large number of high-frame-rate still pictures and need maximum buffer transfer speed (e.g. sports, nature photographer)
2) You take large data volumes of photos/video that you need to transfer from removable media to a computer as fast as possible (i.e. you can't wait 10 minutes to transfer the card contents during a shoot) - this is significant for professionals who need to work fast.
3) You use video codecs with high bit rates than require fast media.
4) At the top end of SD UHS-II speeds (>200MB/s), CFExpress can be cheaper, and will probably continue to come down in price, making it a better option.
 
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sog1927

macrumors member
Nov 2, 2016
95
160
The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.

MagSafe was a mess. Yeah it was branded well but I didnt like it because my cables were always ruined and I had to spend a lot of money replacing it. Imo TB3/4 works great and haven’t had to replace it once.

Good grief… ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ That was a step backwards and for very little gain. The size is perfect. Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.
Don't travel much, do you? The dongles are a nightmare if you're on the road a lot. For anyone who has to travel and give presentations, the HDMI port is a godsend. If you're a photographer working in the field, so is the SD slot. As for Magsafe, I agree the old cables were flimsy and failed often (necessitating a new power adapter), but they saved my laptop more than once, both on the road and at home (I have a rather exuberant dog). If you don't like them, you can always charge over T4. So maybe not useful for you, but pretty handy for a lot of people.
 
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