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I can easily capture 100s of GB in a few short hours of shooting. If I’m actually using the full frame rate of my camera, I’d like my buffer available as soon as possible.
Those are valid reason for faster media as I mentioned in my earlier reply.

Whether having 7 vs 5.5 seconds of 45MP frames (my R5 example) is worth the extra money to you, is a personal decision. Many people just want to have the best whether they need it or not, and I respect that position.

In my experience having faster data transfer to my computer is perhaps the most compelling argument. Even with UHS-II, my 4K videos do seem to take a long time to transfer. But I'm not earning money from this, so 5 minutes vs 1 minute is not a big deal for me.
 
I am thrilled to get MagSafe and HDMI back. MagSafe means when I leave my desk to go to a meeting at work I don’t have to be constantly plugging and unplugging my power cable, which adds wear and tear to the connector and makes both the cable and the port more loose (since USB-C is a friction only connector unlike Lightning). And having HDMI built in means plugging in to a monitor or displaying to the conference room TVs is just plug and play instead of having to worry about an adapter. Both changes will make my workflow easier. And while I have no personal use for the SDCard that doesn’t mean others don’t. So yeah, you are not the center of the universe, stop acting like you are.
Small pet peeve here. Can we stop calling every mundane daily task a "workflow?"

I'm not sure that unplugging a power cable and/or plugging IN an HDMI cord rises to the level of a workflow. That said, I'm 100% with you on the MagSafe. Since they made it optional to use we have the best of both worlds. I for one tossed it in my travel bag, and just use the USB-C for my home office setup.

As for the HDMI port... I'd have rather had another USB-C, but I don't mind it per-se... but I don't think I'll ever use it. Generally if I need to present at a client office, I'm plugging in HDMI, USB-A + sometimes ethernet. For those three things it is easier to just carry a tiny $25 usb-c adapter with those ports in my travel bag.
 
To be clear, as I stated earlier in this thread, adding SD does nothing for me and I think it's kind of retrograde to add support for a dying format, but I don't much care. I won't use that feature. It appears to have precluded a feature I could have used (another USB port).
To be fair, you really didn't lose that port, given that you tie up a port while charging. MagSafe now takes care of that, so you get all the benefits of MagSafe and remain at equilibrium with remaining ports.

The new machines weren't designed for me alone. I'll deal with it.

That said, there's been a ton of people complaining about the lack of SD slots for the past few years and arguing that the MBP isn't "pro" because it doesn't include that slot. In that context, I'm simply voicing and supporting my view.
Fair enough. I agree that what makes a machine Pro or not is highly subjective, but the "pros" in positions of "power" (the Tech outlets) seem to be happy.

The return of SD kind of surprises me. This hasn't been Apple's approach in the past-- they've tried to motivate the industry to move to newer and better standards. The regression to SD is counter to that history.

I do believe that there is some circular reasoning driving this. I think people like SD cards in their cameras because their computers make it easy to use them, and people like SD slots in their computers because their cameras have one. If Apple put in a CFExpress slot, which is clearly where we're moving to in the future, I think it would help drive convergence to the better standard.
Agreed. But after 5 years or so the port is not only lauded by many, Apple's USB-C only thing didn't gain traction ANYWHERE. Apparently, not even at Apple. So perhaps there is such a thing as jumping too far forward. Until 2016, every Mac ever made came with a variety of ports for different scenarios and user types, pro or not.

And I think it's fine to argue that there are more non-pros with SD cards than pros using other things, and that's a fine reason for Apple to support it, but that argument can't easily coexist with arguments about whether the MBP is "sufficiently pro" or arguments that "the industry" wants SD. "The industry" is leaving SD. The more Pro the camera equipment, the more quickly you'll see the transition to better standards.
Perhaps, but Apple needs to do both: account for now AND the future. And the SD slot is far more flexible than a "for photographers" slot. Still, it's not a stretch for Apple to incorporate that in the future. I hope that this MBP is a sign that Apple is done with their "you're going to deal with what we give you" attitude. I think the latest Mac Pro was the first indication, and now with these Apple confirms it.

I for one, am glad.
 
Unlike SD cards, which are good, DSLR video and their video AF is poor. :D
Actually, video autofocus has gotten really, really good in the Canon, Sony, and even the Fuji cameras lately. And the video coming out of some of these cameras is fantastic. And yes, most of them still have at least one SD card slot.
 
Majority supported just means legacy support. SD is no longer current.
B&H Photo would like to disagree with you....
1635469915814.png


1635469978947.png


So they sell 502 types of SD card and 99 types of CFExpress / XQD.

I think SD will be around for a while....
 
So let me throw out a couple thousand of dollars worth of totally functional and useful equipment because the industry standards have evolved...

And no, within the last 15 months, we purchased $8K worth of video cameras for a live stream function... most DSLRs don't offer SDI output for streaming function...
Plus quite a few DSLR/Mirrorless cams have time or thermal limits that prevent extended use. No doubt people read all the news of the Canon R5 / R6 overheating debacle....

Video cameras still have an important function for events and broadcast.
 
I thought about this today as I was plugging in my single usb c hub that hooks me up to my monitor, charging, and external mouse and keyboard, all in one cable. Why would I want to plug in 3 separate cables for this? I can understand why some people may want dedicated ports in case they don’t have an adapter available, but for me I’d rather have a smaller thinner laptop and stick to usb c. More reason to wait for the M2 MacBooks next year.
Because you don't want to carry your monitor and hub with you everywhere you go?

At home or in the office I would use a hub, but when mobile, I'll need to use the ports. I used to have a 2 port MBP13 for work, and I had to carry a small bus-powered hub with me because of the lack of ports.... not the end of the world, but the new MBP would be a cleaner solution.
 
Canon, Nikon and Sony have all moved to CFExpress. SD is supported for legacy reasons only, and that's starting to sunset as well. The cameras underperform their top specs with SD. SD is obsolete.

You can continue making ad hominem attacks against me and debate whether I should have been more pedantic in explaining to other forum members that the term of art is now ILC if you feel that covers the failure of facts in your argument.
When manufacturers of cameras, drones, audio-recorders, DJ gear, set-top boxes, mobile phones and any other device requiring cheap removable media cease to use SD cards, then it will be obsolete.

I don't see any sign of that happening...

SD usage is much more extended than only being the "back-up" card on high-end cameras.
 
So right now SD would be the most common format in cameras. Yes there are increasing numbers of high end cameras which use CFExpress, but they are the minority of bodies in peoples hands. As important as true 'pros' are for buying the high end MBP, I imagine Apple envisages selling a lot more to consumers, simply because there are a lot more of them, and most of them will be carrying around cameras which use SD cards.

So the option was to have no card support (when it is a heavily requested feature), include a CFExpress port (which needs more bandwidth and most purchasers won't have a camera currently that use it) or use an SD slot (which the majority of purchasers are using cameras which use SD).

In several years time as CFExpress becomes more ubiquitous that may well change, but by then Apple are hoping you will also be changing your MacBook Pro for whatever they are offering then.
Excellent answer!

It's about the numbers - there are a lot more people with low to mid-range cameras (and other devices that use SD cards) than there are high-end camera owners who have moved to XQD/CFExpress - probably by 100:1 at least (that's a wild guess, but economics would suggest that not many as many people are buying $2000+ cameras.)
 
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To be clear, as I stated earlier in this thread, adding SD does nothing for me and I think it's kind of retrograde to add support for a dying format, but I don't much care. I won't use that feature. It appears to have precluded a feature I could have used (another USB port). The new machines weren't designed for me alone. I'll deal with it.

That said, there's been a ton of people complaining about the lack of SD slots for the past few years and arguing that the MBP isn't "pro" because it doesn't include that slot. In that context, I'm simply voicing and supporting my view.

The return of SD kind of surprises me. This hasn't been Apple's approach in the past-- they've tried to motivate the industry to move to newer and better standards. The regression to SD is counter to that history.

I do believe that there is some circular reasoning driving this. I think people like SD cards in their cameras because their computers make it easy to use them, and people like SD slots in their computers because their cameras have one. If Apple put in a CFExpress slot, which is clearly where we're moving to in the future, I think it would help drive convergence to the better standard.

And I think it's fine to argue that there are more non-pros with SD cards than pros using other things, and that's a fine reason for Apple to support it, but that argument can't easily coexist with arguments about whether the MBP is "sufficiently pro" or arguments that "the industry" wants SD. "The industry" is leaving SD. The more Pro the camera equipment, the more quickly you'll see the transition to better standards.
I would agree that the argument that "Professionals were demanding the SD port" is pretty weak, and I have modified my view somewhat on the benefits of CFExpress for professional users who require the features it offers.

Apple added SD support for the far greater number of consumers (and a proportion of professionals) who will use it.

Trouble with adding a CFExpress reader to the laptop is that it is still a niche product used by a smaller number of expensive camera owners. The media is still relatively expensive compared to "average" UHS-II cards, and much more expensive than the cheaper cards that casual users are sticking in their cameras and other devices.

It's a bit like FireWire was on the older Macs, and Thunderbolt still is today. Even if it is better, the peripherals that use it are expensive and it's taken a long time for prices to come down. e.g. Thunderbolt SSD enclosures are only just becoming "reasonably priced" and are still a lot more than USB 3.1/3.2 enclosures. Thinking about it, I don't any TB3 peripherals at all, with the exception of a CalDigit dock that I recently bought for my Mac Mini. Apple has been forward-thinking with Thunderbolt but even 10 years after its introduction, there are only a few high-end peripherals available for it.

CFExpress may well become the dominant new standard, but not within the average lifetime of the new MBPs.
 
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The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.
That is mostly correct (it wouldn't apply to those upgrading from older macs, nor to those new to Apple) (and AS may create some converts), but I think it misses the point. People aren't mainly irritated by the connectors because they had to buy them, they're mainly irritated by having to keep track of them. It's not about the cost, it's about the convenience.

Indeed, I think it's those who bought HDMI connectors because they frequently use their MBPs for presentations that would be the most appreciative of no longer needing to always ensure it's in their bag, and to ensure they didn't accidentally leave it in the classroom/conference room when they unplugged (I've done that more than once, since typically after a class I'm answering student questions while I unplug and pack up).

I know it seems like a silly thing to some to mention this inconvenience, but it really is nice not to have to worry about this one extra thing when you're rushing out the door to give a lecture.
Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.
Only to the 14". Others have probably mentioned this already, but the 16" is at the FAA limit for carry-ons.
 
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Don’t get me started on the “it’s not pro” nonsense, and the related conversation of “it’s not pro because it doesn’t play my favorite game well.”
Well, that would be more of a marketing conversation. You were implying that pro photographers don’t use SD so it isn’t required on the MacBook Pro, and I was just noting that it isn’t the MacBook Pro Photographer edition. Lots of professionals are not photographers.

Lots of people on this thread seem to think this model should have been designed just for them, but product development doesn’t work that way. You balance what you can build with the cost of manufacturing and what consumers are willing to pay, and try to include features that will appeal to the broadest spectrum within your market. “Bob won’t like that feature” only factors into that equation if Bob is your CEO or immediate superior.
 
To be clear, as I stated earlier in this thread, adding SD does nothing for me and I think it's kind of retrograde to add support for a dying format, but I don't much care. I won't use that feature. It appears to have precluded a feature I could have used (another USB port). The new machines weren't designed for me alone. I'll deal with it.

In a way you are actually gaining MORE USB connectivity with the 2021 MBP
 
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You were implying that pro photographers don’t use SD so it isn’t required on the MacBook Pro
I wasn’t. I was arguing against the idea that SD is required on the MBP because pro photographers use it.

SD isn’t required on the MBP, full stop. I find arguments about what “Pro” means absurd.
 
If the SD card slot was replaced with a USB port, I’d have more ports and two on each side. The math is pretty simple.

The new M1 Pro and Max MBP have three thunderbolt buses each capable of 40Gb/s according to the system information. A total of 120 GB/s split over 3 ports.

On the Intel based MBPs, there are only 2 TB controllers on the 4 port models. Ports on each side share bandwidth from each of the two controllers. A total of 80 GB/s split over 4 ports.

It is easy to mistakenly claim the 2021 MBPs are losing a TB port, but in fact they are gaining 40GB/s more bandwidth because they don't share controllers between TB ports.
 
How in the next 3-5 years (the average timeframe these laptops will be widely used) is HDMI likely to be replaced? There may be new revisions but they have always been explicitly backwards compatible, so just as HDMI 1.4 devices can output to HDMI 2.0 displays I would expect HDMI 2.0 devices will output to HDMI 3.0 (or whatever follows) displays and will still do 4K 60Hz. Maybe by the end of that lifespan 8K displays might be frequent enough to even think about. If you need to output a higher refresh rate now, then use a thunderbolt adapter, but don’t discount the value that being able to plug a ubiquitous HDMI cable in without an adapter to drive up to 4K 60Hz is for many, particularly for professionals. As for form factor changes, maybe one day, but there are so many HDMI devices that a new form factor would need something to justify the cost of change, and given 8K60 is with the current form factor and has barely any adoption yet you will be waiting a long time.
Sigh. It seems that you can't think far into the future. I stated that ports such as HDMI, SD readers can only support the past. I don't know how you comprehended this statement. Let me say it clearly then.

A 2021 USB C port will be able to take advantage of 2025 HDMI enhancements. (USB C to HDMI cable)

A 2021 HDMI port won't be able to take advantage of any 2025 HDMI enhancements regardless of a new type of cable or not. Is this easier to understand?

Of course, Apple will pay the lowest licensing fee and do the bare minimum to silence critics like you. Their lack of effort flew over your head so much that I should alert the FAA that airplanes in the sky, are in danger.
HDMI as a digital connection offered something VGA did not, and VGA had reached its limits, DVI was the alternative but it never had the ubiquity that HDMI has now.
I was responding to his logic. He stated that if the world isn't ready, we shouldn't introduce technological advances. Don't pick out what you like.
Products have to exist not only for the future but the here and now. In the here and now USB-A is still the most common connection on PC’s (I wish they had included one, but I will live), SD is as close to a standard aa there is for camera media and HDMI is the near ubiquitous standard for displays.

If you never use the HDMI port or the SD card reader fine, but many people will and you lose nothing by them being there. Ironically if they did support HDMI 2.1 that would mean needing 48Gbps of bandwidth so that could mean taking IO bandwidth from elsewhere (so actually losing something).

If it’s about aesthetics they still make a small and thin laptop, and next year I am sure we will see a new version of that.
The people that need it, already have solutions. If not, then your argument for these ports, is even more akin to living in the past. People, who think like this, must also be complaining that life used to be better.

The people that are headstrong that different ports are the way to live, need to grow up. USB C is a solution that provides everyone with the best ports that will sustain backwards compatibility and future compatibility. When old outdated ports are provided, people, who are resistant to change, become more entrenched in their belief that old outdated propriety ports, that do nothing but support the past, is here to stay when it's already a dying breed that is doing a death rattle. Every new product that you can buy now, supply USB C cables.

Anyways as I've noted in my past posts in this thread, I don't care about the ports other than a minor annoyance that I'm paying for outdated tech. I just have a problem with the backwards thinking that technological advancement critics have.
 
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I wasn’t. I was arguing against the idea that SD is required on the MBP because pro photographers use it.

SD isn’t required on the MBP, full stop. I find arguments about what “Pro” means absurd.
On this, I wholeheartedly agree.

I saw a thread somewhere where someone was berating another poster for claiming that Olympic athletes were not “professional”, and equating professional with expert. As we know, professional just means you earn money from your endeavour, and should imply no measure of competence. In the case of computers that could be just about anyone whi works at a desk with a computer, which mostly involves basic productivity tasks and web access.

I wish Apple had just called it MacBook Plus or Power Mac, as they have used in the past.

The unending “pros need x” arguments are very tedious!
 
The new M1 Pro and Max MBP have three thunderbolt buses each capable of 40Gb/s according to the system information. A total of 120 GB/s split over 3 ports.

On the Intel based MBPs, there are only 2 TB controllers on the 4 port models. Ports on each side share bandwidth from each of the two controllers. A total of 80 GB/s split over 4 ports.

It is easy to mistakenly claim the 2021 MBPs are losing a TB port, but in fact they are gaining 40GB/s more bandwidth because they don't share controllers between TB ports.
I didn’t say it lost bandwidth, I said I’d rather have another port. Apple makes the silicon— they chose 3 buses, and an SD card. They could have chosen 4 buses. Or they could have divided the 4 ports among the three buses like they did before.
 
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My Sony DSLR uses SD - and my Raspberry Pi. So whether I need to mess with a Raspberry's software from my Mac, lime writing a new system to it, or I need to extract footage from my camera, SD is there. Oh not to mention audio recorder and capture card with SD. CFExpress is great, but SD is not at all gone
I've read Sony has cameras that can accept both CFExpress and SD cards in the same port. Any idea why Apple didn't do that with its SD port?

They should have had the bandwidth to substitute both CFExpress and HDMI 2.0 in place of the fourth TB4 slot, as TB4 offers 40 Gbps (full duplex). [This assumes that the I/O now being used for the SD + HDMI could have supported a full TB4; in the past Apple has mixed full-speed and half-speed TB ports.] As HDMI 2.0 is 18 Gbps (non-duplex), this leaves at least 22 Gbps = 2.75 GBs full duxplex, which is more than enough to support CFExpress's 2 GBs (full duplex) mode. Indeed, if we can split things in a way that accounts for HDMI not being duplex, we actually have:
(80 Gbps - 18 Gbps)/2 = 31 Gbps = 3.9 Gbps (full duplex), leaving more than enough for CFExpresses's fastest 3 GBs (full duplex) mode.

Indeed, nevermind CFExpress—I'm curious why Apple didn't even offer UHS-III speeds. The new MBPs are limited to UHS-II.
 
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I didn’t say it lost bandwidth, I said I’d rather have another port. Apple makes the silicon— they chose 3 buses, and an SD card. They could have chosen 4 buses. Or they could have divided the 4 ports among the three buses like they did before.

Now you can get splitters and run 6 devices each with the same amount of bandwidth as before.
 
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Small pet peeve here. Can we stop calling every mundane daily task a "workflow?"

I'm not sure that unplugging a power cable and/or plugging IN an HDMI cord rises to the level of a workflow.
The act of plugging or unplugging is a step in the overall workflow, simplifying the step improves that workflow 😊
 
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SD isn’t required on the MBP, full stop. I find arguments about what “Pro” means absurd.
I'm using an SD card right now on a technical product photo shoot with $10,000 of 60 MP camera, lenses, lighting, and computer-controlled rigging.

Now that the SD card reader is built into my MaxBook, I no longer have to track down the card reader, have it sticking out of the laptop, or face ridiculous card reading failures due to poor USB-C connection issues. In the future I'll have to move to CFExpress, but that doesn't apply to this PROFESSIONAL job.

Grow up. You don't know squat.
 
I've read Sony has cameras that can accept both CFExpress and SD cards in the same port. Any idea why Apple didn't do that with its SD port?

They should have had the bandwidth to substitute both CFExpress and HDMI 2.0 in place of the fourth TB4 slot, as TB4 offers 40 Gbps (full duplex). [This assumes that the I/O now being used for the SD + HDMI could have supported a full TB4; in the past Apple has mixed full-speed and half-speed TB ports.] As HDMI 2.0 is 18 Gbps (non-duplex), this leaves at least 22 Gbps = 2.75 GBs full duxplex, which is more than enough to support CFExpress's 2 GBs (full duplex) mode. Indeed, if we can split things in a way that accounts for HDMI not being duplex, we actually have:
(80 Gbps - 18 Gbps)/2 = 31 Gbps = 3.9 Gbps (full duplex), leaving more than enough for CFExpresses's fastest 3 GBs (full duplex) mode.

Indeed, nevermind CFExpress—I'm curious why Apple didn't even offer UHS-III speeds. The new MBPs are limited to UHS-II.

No clue, but on the point about HDMI and bandwidth, I'd point out it's not just about bandwidth. Display out requires a route from the GPU's frame buffer, not just a data path
 
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