M1 Max MBP has all these unnecessary ports….WTF?!

[bgillander]

I wasn’t. I was arguing against the idea that SD is required on the MBP because pro photographers use it.

SD isn’t required on the MBP, full stop. I find arguments about what “Pro” means absurd.

I fully agree with you that what pro photographers use should have no bearing on the mainstream MacBook Pro. And as a Mac user with at least 10 other devices that still use SD cards, I’m quite happy to have the SD slot return. It will free up one of my USB-C hubs strictly for my Surface Go.

 

[0423MAC]

This thread is still going in a cycle of what the word “pro” should imply, arguments for future hdmi standard enhancements etc?

Apple’s business decision is simple. They need to focus on what it’s core customers want and finally gave in. We’ve had this dongle conversation for years & while future thinking arguments exist the customers have spoken that current inconveniences do not outweigh those potential consequences in the future.

The new MacBooks is their response after multiple errors they have made since releasing the abomination that was the 2015, 12” MacBook.

Grow up? It looks like Apple finally did.

 

[bgillander]

On this, I wholeheartedly agree.

I saw a thread somewhere where someone was berating another poster for claiming that Olympic athletes were not “professional”, and equating professional with expert. As we know, professional just means you earn money from your endeavour, and should imply no measure of competence. In the case of computers that could be just about anyone whi works at a desk with a computer, which mostly involves basic productivity tasks and web access.

I wish Apple had just called it MacBook Plus or Power Mac, as they have used in the past.

The unending “pros need x” arguments are very tedious!

That Olympic argument is not completely wrong, just 35 years out of date. I’m old enough to recall a time when the Olympics were actually restricted to only amateur athletes, but that rule was dropped in 1986, I believe.

Of course, in those days you had the same “pro” arguments, as some countries would sponsor their athletes more than others, and then claims of “But they are getting paid!” would occur. I could say it was “a simpler time”, but that is almost always just the result of selective memory.

 

[iPadified]

This thread is still going in a cycle of what the word “pro” should imply, arguments for future hdmi standard enhancements etc?

Apple’s business decision is simple. They need to focus on what it’s core customers want and finally gave in. We’ve had this dongle conversation for years & while future thinking arguments exist the customers have spoken that current inconveniences do not outweigh those potential consequences in the future.

The new MacBooks is their response after multiple errors they have made since releasing the abomination that was the 2015, 12” MacBook.

Grow up? It looks like Apple finally did.

Who are these core customers and how many are these core customers compared to the rest of us? Surely, Apple do not want to alienate a much larger group of customers. That is just bad business.

 

[theorist9]

No clue, but on the point about HDMI and bandwidth, I'd point out it's not just about bandwidth. Display out requires a route from the GPU's frame buffer, not just a data path

Are you saying that HDMI's need to have a route from the GPU's frame buffer affects the amount of remaning bandwidth available for CFExpress, and thus would need to be accounted for in my calculation?

 

[JokerPower]

No one requested to remove these “unnecessary” ports. It was a big mistake in 2016. This is a Pro device, it should offer convenience and functionality.

 

[iPadified]

No one requested to remove these “unnecessary” ports. It was a big mistake in 2016. This is a Pro device, it should offer convenience and functionality.

Where is the ethernet port?

 

[JokerPower]

Where is the ethernet port?

That’s a different story. WiFi 5/6 are pretty capable of delivering high speeds, and it’s available everywhere. Instead, I would rather see USB-A port.. there are still so many devices with USB-A.. the USB-C revolution didn’t happen as Apple expected..

 

[0423MAC]

Who are these core customers and how many are these core customers compared to the rest of us? Surely, Apple do not want to alienate a much larger group of customers. That is just bad business.

It’s clear to me that there was a shift that has traces back to the trash can pro and the previously mentioned 2015 MacBook that started to bleed into other products unnecessarily. Products that range from around $600 to a fully spec’d out desktop costing tens of thousands of dollars don’t have the same core customer. It’s per category/class of device.

A $2,500+ MacBook Pro should have a bit more real world considerations as opposed to making that class as lightweight/thin as possible as one would expect with the MacBook Air. You start playing this game of shaving ounces for pros who might need to carry a few docks or cables around that negate those savings in weight or “bulk” and face thermal issues with the smaller envelope.

Bottom line - Apple was wrong with their approach post 2015 on their laptops and those complaining need to accept that fact. Apple did, so should they. Don’t like the new MacBook Pros with the unnecessary legacy ports? They will happily sell you a MacBook Air or slightly less “Pro” MacBooks along with dozens of docks colored in silver or space gray as well.

 

[ddhhddhh2]

Hmm...in fact only you don’t need it, I totally agree. By the way, please don't think your opinion is point, because you seem to think that your own needs are equal to the needs of everyone, well, it's funny.

 

[TrueBlou]

Well, the simplest answer would probably be that Apple have had enough requests for the addition of those ports back to make it worthwhile.

We don’t all have the same use scenarios, and while you (and many others) may have no need for them, others will.

I’m one of them. I use HDMI and SD cards enough times a week that I’m delighted to see their return on a MacBook.

Is it an end to dongle life? No, not for me, I’ll still need CompactFlash among others. But I have no doubt that for some people the re-addition of the ports will mean they no longer need to have a pile of cables and dongles in their bags.

I’m rarely one to complain about extras being added, better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

 

[casperes1996]

Are you saying that HDMI's need to have a route from the GPU's frame buffer affects the amount of remaning bandwidth available for CFExpress, and thus would need to be accounted for in my calculation?

No, no. I'm just saying it wouldn't *just* be possible to take bandwidth from a potential extra Thunderbolt port and use it for HDMI or other video out, if the Thunderbolt port does not already carry video through said bandwidth - but I guess TB does do exactly that so I don't even really remember what my point was

 

[mike...]

The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.

MagSafe was a mess. Yeah it was branded well but I didnt like it because my cables were always ruined and I had to spend a lot of money replacing it. Imo TB3/4 works great and haven’t had to replace it once.

Good grief… ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ That was a step backwards and for very little gain. The size is perfect. Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.

It's much easier for you to have those ports and not use them, than it is for people to need those ports and not have them.

Also your assumption is everyone will be upgrading from the pure USB-C/Thunderbolt Macs but many of us, a great many, in fact, skipped that generation and will be upgrading from older, better, MacBook Pros. You know, the ones that do have these ports. The ones that do have MagSafe. The ones that don't have a stupid emoji bar or broken keyboard.

The problems with MagSafe are now solved: the cable is replaceable and it's also braided so should last longer.

You want to charge a new MBP via its USB-C/TB ports? Great, nothing is stopping you doing that on a new one.

That’s a different story. WiFi 5/6 are pretty capable of delivering high speeds, and it’s available everywhere. Instead, I would rather see USB-A port.. there are still so many devices with USB-A.. the USB-C revolution didn’t happen as Apple expected..

One issue with this statement is that the new MBPs only support 2x2 MIMO in 802.11ac, so they're actually slower in that regard than the MBPs they replace which supported 3x3 MIMO. I can get 750Mbps real throughput over wifi on my late 2013 MBP. When I upgrade, I'm going to have to upgrade two APs to WiFi 6 in order to get the same performance. Very disappointing. Eight years and no progress.

 

[TrueBlou]

No, no. I'm just saying it wouldn't *just* be possible to take bandwidth from a potential extra Thunderbolt port and use it for HDMI or other video out, if the Thunderbolt port does not already carry video through said bandwidth - but I guess TB does do exactly that so I don't even really remember what my point was

Ah, welcome to my world, I often forget my point, sometimes before I even finish typing a post.
At least I have old age, a reckless youth and lots of medication to blame

 

[petvas]

Where is the ethernet port?

An ethernet port would make the laptop even more thick. Just get a Thunderbolt ethernet adapter if you need it. For most things WiFi should be more than enough.

 

[casperes1996]

Ah, welcome to my world, I often forget my point, sometimes before I even finish typing a post.
At least I have old age, a reckless youth and lots of medication to blame

I blame sleep deprivation myself. Though it's my own stupidity causing that sleep deprivation. So I guess I blame my own stupidity...

 

[headlessmike]

Where is the ethernet port?

Or VGA for that matter. I attend a lot of meetings and VGA is still more common than HDMI in my experience for the projectors I encounter. I understand why people like the ports that make a return on the new machines, but in many ways I would have preferred keeping the fourth TB port instead of having either HDMI or MagSafe.

 

[Bob_DM]

In a way you are actually gaining MORE USB connectivity with the 20201 MBP

20201?

 

[iPadified]

That’s a different story. WiFi 5/6 are pretty capable of delivering high speeds, and it’s available everywhere. Instead, I would rather see USB-A port.. there are still so many devices with USB-A.. the USB-C revolution didn’t happen as Apple expected..

Pro used need speed like 10 Gb. Do you get that from a wifi?

 

[iPadified]

An ethernet port would make the laptop even more thick. Just get a Thunderbolt ethernet adapter if you need it. For most things WiFi should be more than enough.

Like an adapter for SD cards and HDMI, right? What is the difference? No if pro ports was to be included, 10 Gb Ethernet is a must.

 

[AdonisSMU]

It's much easier for you to have those ports and not use them, than it is for people to need those ports and not have them.

Also your assumption is everyone will be upgrading from the pure USB-C/Thunderbolt Macs but many of us, a great many, in fact, skipped that generation and will be upgrading from older, better, MacBook Pros. You know, the ones that do have these ports. The ones that do have MagSafe. The ones that don't have a stupid emoji bar or broken keyboard.

The problems with MagSafe are now solved: the cable is replaceable and it's also braided so should last longer.

You want to charge a new MBP via its USB-C/TB ports? Great, nothing is stopping you doing that on a new one.



One issue with this statement is that the new MBPs only support 2x2 MIMO in 802.11ac, so they're actually slower in that regard than the MBPs they replace which supported 3x3 MIMO. I can get 750Mbps over wifi on my late 2013 MBP. When I upgrade, I'm going to have to upgrade two APs to WiFi 6 in order to get the same throughput. Very disappointing. Eight years and no progress.

Its not a great many... sales of MBPs have almost only gone up since removing the ports.

Many hardware vendors already made USB-C versions of their hardware and Apple connectors worked even back in April 2015 when I hooked up my 12" MacBook to my LG monitor using HDMI with zero issues. That MacBook simply wasn't powerful enough for me so I ultimately switched in Late 2016 to an 16" MBP. The Touch Bar IMO, had to go. But now I can't even have a 16" powerful MacBook without the Touch Bar, HDMI and SD Card Slots... I just keep thinking about how much power and money could be saved by not having that stuff on the 2020 MBP or M1 Max MBP.

It feels like Apple compromised the 16" MBP functionality and design so they could make an extra nickel and get that 300% markup on an HDMI/SD Card port.

 

[iPadified]

It’s clear to me that there was a shift that has traces back to the trash can pro and the previously mentioned 2015 MacBook that started to bleed into other products unnecessarily. Products that range from around $600 to a fully spec’d out desktop costing tens of thousands of dollars don’t have the same core customer. It’s per category/class of device.

A $2,500+ MacBook Pro should have a bit more real world considerations as opposed to making that class as lightweight/thin as possible as one would expect with the MacBook Air. You start playing this game of shaving ounces for pros who might need to carry a few docks or cables around that negate those savings in weight or “bulk” and face thermal issues with the smaller envelope.

Bottom line - Apple was wrong with their approach post 2015 on their laptops and those complaining need to accept that fact. Apple did, so should they. Don’t like the new MacBook Pros with the unnecessary legacy ports? They will happily sell you a MacBook Air or slightly less “Pro” MacBooks along with dozens of docks colored in silver or space gray as well.

Could you please explain who the core user are? You sort of forgot that in the reply. I am surprised that it is OK to have dongle for the 10 Gb ethernet port (professional port) but not for a SD card (which is after not really high end port). Inconsistent.

Presenter have long time adapted to dongles because anything can meet you at different location. HDMI is on the way to be standard but it is not there yet as VGA is still used. I think the same situation exist in the camera cards.

 

[happy-raccoon]

Could you please explain who the core user are? You sort of forgot that in the reply. I am surprised that it is OK to have dongle for the 10 Gb ethernet port (professional port) but not for a SD card (which is after not really high end port). Inconsistent.

Presenter have long time adapted to dongles because anything can meet you at different location. HDMI is on the way to be standard but it is not there yet as VGA is still used. I think the same situation exist in the camera cards.

When I’m on the go, I barely use An Ethernet cable or connect to other networks, only at home. At most places, there isnt even an option to use Ethernet, only Wi-Fi. When I’m on the go, I often need to connect to an external display or use sd cards.

so my Ethernet dongle stays at home all the time, plugged into my network cable. i Can imagine it’s a similar use case for lots of people, but maybe I’m wrong.

 

[AdonisSMU]

When I’m on the go, I barely use An Ethernet cable or connect to other networks, only at home. At most places, there isnt even an option to use Ethernet, only Wi-Fi. When I’m on the go, I often need to connect to an external display or use sd cards.

so my Ethernet dongle stays at home all the time, plugged into my network cable. i Can imagine it’s a similar use case for lots of people, but maybe I’m wrong.

I have an sd card connector. In fact I just bought it like a month ago for my videos. ??‍♂️

 

[Fomalhaut]

That’s a different story. WiFi 5/6 are pretty capable of delivering high speeds, and it’s available everywhere. Instead, I would rather see USB-A port.. there are still so many devices with USB-A.. the USB-C revolution didn’t happen as Apple expected..

This may be the core of the problem. TB/USB-C is a good standard and forward looking, and has a bright future I think, but Apple misjudged how quickly even their existing customers would embrace it.

They tried this before with Firewire and TB1 and TB2. I did have a FW400 & 800 disk and it was good for connecting a Sony DV camera, but it didn’t really catch on outside of Apple. I only ever used TB1/2 to connect displays, and an ethernet adapter, and again it wasn’t widely found outside if Apple hardware.

I see the current mix of ports as recognition that things move much more slowly than many technophiles believe. I still come across VGA monitors in use and that’s 34 years old. I think we’ll still be using USB-A, SD cards and HDMI for the next 10 years, & gradually fading away for the next 15-20. New machines may not have all of these after about 5 years from now, but they will still be found in many homes and workplaces.