M1 Max MBP has all these unnecessary ports….WTF?!

[usernames need to be uniq]

Quite a few cameras do have USB-C port for storage. I use this with a Samsung T5 on my Black Magic Cinema Camera. The trouble is that we already have different standards for SSDs that aren't great for cameras (M2 is quite large compared to some camera media).

It will probably settle on CFExpress - but even then there are two common sizes (A & B - there's also a C, but I've never seen it).

There is still a big price differential at the lower end compared to SD cards - up to 5-6x at the bottom end for the same capacity (although it tips in CFExpress' favour at the higher end). The fact is that most casual and pro-sumer users simply don't need anything better than a V60 /U10 SD card (60MB/s write sustained) for 4K video and considerably less to take photos. An 800-1700MB/s CFExpress card is overkill. Sure, it's fast to transfer your photos & videos, but not really "necessary", unless you are a pro who has to offload hundreds of GB per day.

Perhaps you mean a few video cameras can use the USB-C port for storage. I am not aware of any stills / hybrid cameras that can use their USB-C port for storage.
CFe has standardised on Type B. Only a couple of Sony high end cameras use Type A and the capacity is small and expensive and currently only Sony make them - although there has been some announcements for delivery next year.
Most of the users that you are referring to are using cameras that already have USH-II SD card(s) ie no CFe cards because the camera is not capable of 4k/120 or 8k raw. Those cameras can are capable do need a CFe card to record internally. Atomos Ninja V+ can record 8K from the Canon R5 but that is the only option unless you include codecs that already have compression eg Sony A1.
Type C has never been commercially made. They are large and I don't see the point personally.

The price comparison between USH-II SD cards and CFe Type B cards are similar although the CFexpress cards are easier to find. CFe cards come in much higher capacity options if you are prepared to pay the price!

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Shooting with SD cards results in slower shooting speeds, so most stick with CF for the main card and use the second SD slot to back up the main cards. The rest of those things only apply to a subset of photographers.

All professional photographers I know, work with or have chatted to use card readers. They are faster, they have multiple card slots, you can have multiple instances of them for multi card ingesting. It’s a more versatile and, risking over use of the word, ‘professional’ option.

The SD card on the new Macbooks has replaced a multipurpose TB port. For me its a step backwards. If it’s liked by some thats fine - but stop bringing ‘professional’ photographers in to it, as it really isn’t something many professional photographers were looking for, in my experience in the field.

PCs haven't had USH-II card slots before so there was a bottle neck if a standard USH-I slot was used. Card readers are a pain but necessary eg for my CFe card. SD slot is just simple for me both with my 2013 MBP and my shiny new M1max

 

[JouniS]

Correction: every conference room in your office all have HDMI.

"Foreign" conference rooms often still uses VGA. Which still works just fine if the projector is still 1080p or below.

OTOH the "better" conference rooms would have Lightning and USB-C as well.

I think the last time I needed VGA was in 2016, and I've given plenty of presentations in academic conferences and universities around the world. When I got a new MBP in early 2018, I deliberately chose not to buy a VGA adapter.

USB-C can be decent replacement for HDMI in small meeting rooms. In larger conference rooms, the maximum length of a USB-C cable is too short to reach the projector. Because the actual cable has to be HDMI, it's just common sense to include a HDMI port in the laptop. HDMI is not going away, because USB is incapable of replacing it in many applications.

In principle, Apple could sell two MBP models: one with 4x USB-C and another with 3x USB-C and HDMI. Because they choose not to do that, their devices have to make compromises between the needs of their users. And because they reverted from USB-C only to USB-C + HDMI, they must now believe that including a HDMI port is the better compromise.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Why didn't you just buy a hub? Lol. 1st world problems require 1st world solutions.

The new MacBooks have an outdated HDMI port and an outdated SD card reader (limited to 200mb. Is that a joke?)

HDMI 2.0 is the most widely used HDMI spec and for the users that are likely to need it ie presentations, it is more than sufficient.
You can't buy USH-iii or SD Express cards so no need for that spec. If the spec was SD Express then it is not backward compatible in speed to USH-ii... it goes back to USH-i speeds so all the expensive USH-ii SD cards that I used with my camera would be faster with a card reader. This way everything works the way it should.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

So you remember your cameras, your laptop, but you forget your card reader? And you plug your CF card into the SD reader on the new MacBooks? I don’t really understand what you’re getting at.

By the way, aside the fact I am actually a professional photographer of many years, I’m not judging the needs of a whole group, rather I understand the needs of my particular industry. Most of the top end professional Canon and Nikon cameras (by FAR the two most used pro camera brands), use CF cards. It’s just a simple fact.

Too be specific, they use CFe cards. CF cards haven't been used for a while now.
A CFe type B card slot would have been perfect but the USH-ii slot will do for almost all of photography needs (I have a R5). I will bring out the CFe reader when I have 8k or 4k/120 video to process.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

No, you plug the SD card where you are keeping the backups. Most of the top-end Canon and Nikon cameras are not CF only, most are CF + SD, and most people with CF+SD cameras backup the CF photos into the SD card while shooting. So if you forget your card readers, you can still read the ones in the SD slot. And if you carry lower-end cameras as secondary cameras you're likely to be using SDs there too. Or if you're a vlogger, who typically carry lighter cameras with SD cards.

Really, I genuinely think it would be hard to find a photographer who wouldn't make use of a SD card reader because he only shoots on CF cards and CF cards alone.

The Canon 1DXii has dual CFe (not CF) cards but the R3/5 have dual CFe/SD card slots. I write to both cards and use the SD card to transfer to PC... previously a 2013 MBP with SD slot and now M1max
When I shoot 4k/120 video then I need to use the CFe card/reader but that is the only time.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

No -- "they" haven't necessarily
Not everyone buys new computers constantly.

A lot of people have been still using 2015 and older MacBooks.

Yep, my 2013 specced up MBP was fine until I got my Canon R5 and the file sizes and video was too much for it.... Been waiting a while for my M1max but very happy camper now!

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Or she, of course I wasn't implying otherwise, sorry if it seemed that way.


We'll have to agree to disagree here. I don't think using SD cards is an extremely rare use case for professional photographers. But I have no other ways to prove it to you other than anecdotal evidence and pointing at the fact that Apple seems to agree, or they wouldn't have included the SD card slot in the first place.

Maybe it's just that we don't agree on the definition of what a professional photographer is. I know people who do photography for a living, but they don't have several kit bags ready to go. They have one, and two cameras at best, because that's what they can afford for their work.

I've also visited —for a totally unrelated reason— a shooting studio of a major fashion brand. They probably weren't using SD cards on their day to day work, as there were only Canon 1Ds there, and being on a studio, I don't think they needed to backup CF on-camera. But I think there's a wide range of photographers in between, which I would call professional photographers too. And, ultimately, what I call them is irrelevant: Apple has to target the first group as much as the second, or they wouldn't sell many MacBooks to photographers.

I agree. Only a few cameras have CFe cards only eg 1DXiii. Virtually all other cameras have SD card(s) with USH-i or USH-ii. SD card is everywhere and backward compatible. From a price perspective, USH-ii and CFe Type B cards are approximately the same cost, almost the same size but a big difference in speed, and heat generation. There are many more users of SD cards whether professional (however you define it) or prosumer or casual user.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Both HDMI 2.0 and SD UHS-II are current standards in common use with millions of users, and are likely to stay so for the lifetime of these computers. Which video codecs are you using that require write speeds of >2 Gbps (250MB/s), which (in theory) an SD UHS-II card could support? That is high end cinema camera territory.

High end camera/hybrid need CFe type B cards (the higher speed ones) for 8k raw recording and 4k/120 eg Canon R5. If codecs or compression (raw lite) are used then the bitrate is much lower.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Compact Flash (CF) or CFExpress? There don’t appear to many (if any) new models using CF.

But I would like to ask you what the advantages of very fast media for stills photography are? Many cameras can’t write anywhere near the top speed of the media. Is it shorter transfer times to the computer? Is the media more reliable than SD?

The simple answer is buffer clearance rates. The camera will take burst shots until the internal buffer is full and then stall waiting for the shots to be written to the card(s). The faster the card write speed and the deeper the buffer, the more shots you can take and not wait. The Canon 1Dxiii has dual CFe Type B cards and has unlimited shooting until the cards are full ie no buffer writing to card delays. It is only 20mp though.
The R5 has dual SD/CFe cards and the speed difference is noticeable. Sensor size is 45mp. @20fps, the electronic shutter has have a 13 bit file vs 14bit with 12fps mechanical shutter

Test (frames per second)	Image Count	Seconds of shooting
12 fps RAW > CFexpress	405	33.8
12 fps RAW > SD	182	15.0
12 fps RAW + RAW	175	14.6
20 fps RAW > CFexpress	146	7.3
20 fps RAW > SD	110	5.5
20 fps RAW + RAW	104	5.2

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

SD is obsolete for most photo and video. XQD and CFExpress are the things now. I need to carry an XQD adapter anyway, but now I have less USBC ports to plug it into. I kind of think the inclusion of SD was less for “the industry” and specifically for the non-pro complainer crowd.

Then again I appreciate the HDMI port. So I guess I have to accept that this machine wasn’t designed with only me in mind.

SD is definitely not obsolete. yes, it is slower than CFe but only the Sony A1 (dual CFe Type A) and Canon 1DXiii (dual CFe Type B) have no SD cards. Both are at the very pointy end of the stills/hybrid price range. The rest have either 1 or 2 SD cards.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

Yes to both. Also, the faster you can write out to the card from the camera, the faster your RAM buffer is available to start shooting again.

Remember, this is “stills” but each frame can be on the order of 45 million 14 bit values plus a JPEG of the same image at 20 frames a second. 45*14/8*20=~1.5GB/s

if you mean the Canon R5 (which I have) then 20fps/eshutter drops to 13 bit vs 14bit with the mechanical shutter.

 

[usernames need to be uniq]

A prosumer won’t pay $3000 for a camera and hobble it with a $20 SD card.

Correct. they will pay >USD200 for a 256GB UHS-II SD card..... but in an emergency, the $20 SD card will work... slowly!

 

[Fomalhaut]

Yep, my 2013 specced up MBP was fine until I got my Canon R5 and the file sizes and video was too much for it.... Been waiting a while for my M1max but very happy camper now!

The Canon R5 codec seems to be tough on computers; MaxTech's videos were often bemoaning the difficulty in editing the unoptimised footage until they got their new MacBook Pros

 

[Fomalhaut]

High end camera/hybrid need CFe type B cards (the higher speed ones) for 8k raw recording and 4k/120 eg Canon R5. If codecs or compression (raw lite) are used then the bitrate is much lower.

Yes, agreed. At the top end of hybrid camera codecs and many (if not most) cinema camera video codecs (ProRes, DNxHD/HQ and the various flavours of RAW), an SD card is not going to cut it.

But I'll bet that an awful lot of "pro" video users (e.g. event videographers etc.) are still using SD-cards to record H.264/H.265 4K at up 60fps in hybrid cameras or video cameras.

Of course, the quoted "maximum speed" of SD cards is often never realized, mostly because it's nearly always the read speed (not write), and because that is a theoretical maximum, or because the cameras themselves can't write at that speed. On my Panasonic GH5, the All-I 10-bit 422 4K codec needs 400Mbps, which is only 50MB/s, so you'd think that an SD labelled "150MB/s" would be able to handle it - but not so..at least not guaranteed... I needed the SanDisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s (that claims writes "up to" 270MB/s ). I guess this is why we have ratings like "U3", "V60" & "V90", but even that same SanDisk (270MB/s write) is marked "U3" (30MB/s write) but that is because I don't think they defined a speed above it (e.g. "U6") ...so who knows what it will really do without testing!

In any case, I have modified my view of SD vs CFe at the high-end of UHS-II SD cards. CFExpress cards (particularly at the larger capacities) are often cheaper than the same sized UHS-II SD and have better (on-paper) performance.

Long story short, yes, CFe will become more common or standard in cameras >$1500-2000, but there are still and awful lot of SD cameras and other devices out there, and this is who Apple is appealing to with this computer.

 

[Fomalhaut]

The simple answer is buffer clearance rates. The camera will take burst shots until the internal buffer is full and then stall waiting for the shots to be written to the card(s). The faster the card write speed and the deeper the buffer, the more shots you can take and not wait. The Canon 1Dxiii has dual CFe Type B cards and has unlimited shooting until the cards are full ie no buffer writing to card delays. It is only 20mp though.
The R5 has dual SD/CFe cards and the speed difference is noticeable. Sensor size is 45mp. @20fps, the electronic shutter has have a 13 bit file vs 14bit with 12fps mechanical shutter

​

Test (frames per second)	Image Count	Seconds of shooting
12 fps RAW > CFexpress	405	33.8
12 fps RAW > SD	182	15.0
12 fps RAW + RAW	175	14.6
20 fps RAW > CFexpress	146	7.3
20 fps RAW > SD	110	5.5
20 fps RAW + RAW	104	5.2

Thanks - I think I quoted from the same review article of the R5 At 20fps the difference is moderate, which may not be an issue for amateurs, but I can see that it could be for pros if they miss "the money shot" because their buffer was full. At 12fps mechanical it's much more significant, so if you need to "machine gun" your subjects, then this will make a difference; can't say this is something I've ever felt the need to do, but I don't photograph sports or wildlife where I expect this matters. I also do astrophotgraphy (with an astro camera) and often take 5 minute exposures for a single frame....so high-frame rate isn't something I worry about

 

[RetroDan]

The hdmi and sd card port on these is totally unnecessary. WTF?! Everyone already bought connectors for these items over the last 5 years.

MagSafe was a mess. Yeah it was branded well but I didnt like it because my cables were always ruined and I had to spend a lot of money replacing it. Imo TB3/4 works great and haven’t had to replace it once.

Good grief… ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ That was a step backwards and for very little gain. The size is perfect. Apple could’ve added more battery capacity.

This should help.

Nasstoys Anal Ease Cream, 1 1/2 oz.

Nasstoys Anal Ease Cream, 1 1/2 oz.

www.amazon.com

 

[TrueBlou]

Yes, agreed. At the top end of hybrid camera codecs and many (if not most) cinema camera video codecs (ProRes, DNxHD/HQ and the various flavours of RAW), an SD card is not going to cut it.

But I'll bet that an awful lot of "pro" video users (e.g. event videographers etc.) are still using SD-cards to record H.264/H.265 4K at up 60fps in hybrid cameras or video cameras.

Of course, the quoted "maximum speed" of SD cards is often never realized, mostly because it's nearly always the read speed (not write), and because that is a theoretical maximum, or because the cameras themselves can't write at that speed. On my Panasonic GH5, the All-I 10-bit 422 4K codec needs 400Mbps, which is only 50MB/s, so you'd think that an SD labelled "150MB/s" would be able to handle it - but not so..at least not guaranteed... I needed the SanDisk Extreme Pro 300MB/s (that claims writes "up to" 270MB/s ). I guess this is why we have ratings like "U3", "V60" & "V90", but even that same SanDisk (270MB/s write) is marked "U3" (30MB/s write) but that is because I don't think they defined a speed above it (e.g. "U6") ...so who knows what it will really do without testing!

In any case, I have modified my view of SD vs CFe at the high-end of UHS-II SD cards. CFExpress cards (particularly at the larger capacities) are often cheaper than the same sized UHS-II SD and have better (on-paper) performance.

Long story short, yes, CFe will become more common or standard in cameras >$1500-2000, but there are still and awful lot of SD cameras and other devices out there, and this is who Apple is appealing to with this computer.

And that’s before we even get to the many millions of people who, for instance, use things such as GoPro/Drones, who still want convenience, performance and long battery life in their laptops.

You don’t need to be a pro photographer/videographer to benefit from the new MacBook Pro and it’s re-introduced port selection.

I know if I’m off editing in the (literal ) field I’m not going to complain about a built-in SD slot.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Correct. they will pay >USD200 for a 256GB UHS-II SD card..... but in an emergency, the $20 SD card will work... slowly!

It depends...I only bought one high-speed card when I bought my GH5, and considering I couldn't see the difference between 150Mbps 4K 10-bit 422 long-GOP and 400Mbps 4K 10-bit 422 All-I, I never bought any more and use relatively cheap SanDisk cards. These ones for less than $20 for 64GB work flawlessly:

Sandisk Extreme SDXC, SDXV6 64GB, V30, U3, C10, UHS-I, 150MB/s R, 60MB/s W, 4x6, Lifetime Limited, Yellow (SDSDXV6-064G-G)

The SanDisk Extreme SD UHS-I memory card delivers performance that lets you take control of your creativity. With shot speeds of up to 60MB/s and UHS speed Class 3 (U3)(2) recording, you’re ready to capture stunning high-resolution, stutter-free 4K UHD video(1). And, it delivers up to 150MB/s tra...

www.amazon.com.au

I put the expensive card in my Black Magic camera and it will still record 8:1 BRAW, although I mainly use a Samsung T5 SSD because it's cheaper / GB and I can edit directly off it if need (although in practice I always make a backup first!)

I'm not against CFe at all - just that it is still at the high-end of the consumer cameras, and is still overkill for casual photographers and videographers.

No doubt cameras will evolve, and video codecs will become ever more hungy for bandwidth, so clearly UHS-II SD is going to hit a wall at some point. UHS-III doesn't seem to have any cards yet. Same for SD-Express, which I think you mentioned is backward-compatible - but only to UHS-I speeds - doh! It looks like CFe will be the next high-speed standard, which is good....apart from the decision between Type A and Type B.

You can see why Apple just raised their hands and said "who knows what the standard will be? Let's go with UHS-II which is good enough for most people".

 

[MrTSolar]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-needs-to-give-us-the-80-max-charge-option-on-the-iphone.2365460/post-31653730

Due to events ^, all I have to say now is:

 

[cupcakes2000]

Too be specific, they use CFe cards. CF cards haven't been used for a while now.
A CFe type B card slot would have been perfect but the USH-ii slot will do for almost all of photography needs (I have a R5). I will bring out the CFe reader when I have 8k or 4k/120 video to process.

Canon 5d mk IV use CF cards, actually. They’re current, popular and professional level Canon bodies.

 

[Clix Pix]

SD is definitely not obsolete. yes, it is slower than CFe but only the Sony A1 (dual CFe Type A) and Canon 1DXiii (dual CFe Type B) have no SD cards. Both are at the very pointy end of the stills/hybrid price range. The rest have either 1 or 2 SD cards.

This is incorrect. My Sony A1 has dual slots -- and can use either CFExpress Type A cards or SD cards and/or one of each, depending upon what the user needs. I use two 80 GB CFExpress cards in the camera most of the time, but if need be could stick an SD card into one of the slots and use it instead. I also have the Sony A7R IV, which uses SD cards only. If I were out on an all-day excursion and shot my way through all my CFExpress cards I could simply borrow an SD card from the A7R IV and use it in the A1. I could also use one CFExpress card in one slot and an SD card in the second slot. I have no need to do that since I do have several EFExpress cards anyway.

 

[Alameda]

Correction: every conference room in your office all have HDMI.

"Foreign" conference rooms often still uses VGA. Which still works just fine if the projector is still 1080p or below.

OTOH the "better" conference rooms would have Lightning and USB-C as well.

I don't think you will find DisplayPort and VGA in most conference rooms. I'm talking about basic 5 to 20 person rooms.
It used to be that conference rooms had projectors, and they had VGA, and the premium ones had HDMI.
But now, conference rooms use TV sets, and they have HDMI.

It is incredibly rare to find a large screen TV with DisplayPort or USB-C. 100% of TV’s do have HDMI, and that’s what you’ll find in conference rooms everywhere.

With TV sets, you can have a 65” display on a wall that’s 4K and it’s less than $1,000. You can get those anywhere and they all have HDMI. Before Covid, I traveled worldwide and HDMI was everywhere. I never encountered a DisplayPort connector in a conference room and VGA has been gone for quite a long time.

Count me in as one working pro who’s delighted that HDMI has come back to Apple laptops.

 

[Fomalhaut]

This is incorrect. My Sony A1 has dual slots -- and can use either CFExpress Type A cards or SD cards and/or one of each, depending upon what the user needs. I use two 80 GB CFExpress cards in the camera most of the time, but if need be could stick an SD card into one of the slots and use it instead. I also have the Sony A7R IV, which uses SD cards only. If I were out on an all-day excursion and shot my way through all my CFExpress cards I could simply borrow an SD card from the A7R IV and use it in the A1. I could also use one CFExpress card in one slot and an SD card in the second slot. I have no need to do that since I do have several EFExpress cards anyway.

It will be interesting to see if anyone except Sony follows the CFe-Type A + SD hybrid. Personally I like it for its flexibility, but it does look like CFe-Type B has a lot more traction and this is bringing card prices down.

I had hoped that Apple were going to use the same CFe-A + SD hybrid readers, but I suppose CFe-A is still only used by a tiny percentage of potential buyers, so they went with the lowest common denominator.

 

[Alameda]

It will be interesting to see if anyone except Sony follows the CFe-Type A + SD hybrid. Personally I like it for its flexibility, but it does look like CFe-Type B has a lot more traction and this is bringing card prices down.

I had hoped that Apple were going to use the same CFe-A + SD hybrid readers, but I suppose CFe-A is still only used by a tiny percentage of potential buyers, so they went with the lowest common denominator.

Bottom line is, when you buy a high end camera, you buy one or two of the specialized memory cards that it needs, and a card reader. And as someone pointed out, Apple can’t possibly keep up with this, except by offering ever-faster USB-C ports.