M1 Pro/Max's GPU performance for gaming is quite poor.

[Zoolook]

Oh, I was not aware that Witcher 3 is available on Switch! Thanks for pointing this out!

This is quite interesting though. It means that Witcher 3 runs on ARM CPUs using Vulkan API... which basically means that porting it to Apple Silicon should be trivial.

I'm a little baffled as to why Witcher 3 has never been ported to any Apple hardware. Maybe the sheer size is an issue for iOS/App Store, I am not sure, but it would run and would likely look far better than the Switch version. They'd sell a tone I am sure!

 

[jmho]

and you most definitely won't get "best out of the CPU" by using Swift, as it's not the best language for low-level performance stuff (for that you should use C, C++ or Rust).

Swift is actually really fast and can keep up with C/C++ (if you're careful.)

But yeah, nobody is going to use Swift for commercial high-performance projects because C++ does literally everything you need while also being portable.

 

[Kpjoslee]

I'm a little baffled as to why Witcher 3 has never been ported to any Apple hardware. Maybe the sheer size is an issue for iOS/App Store, I am not sure, but it would run and would likely look far better than the Switch version. They'd sell a tone I am sure!

If it was going to sell a tone, I am sure it would have been released already.

 

[Zoolook]

If it was going to sell a tone, I am sure it would have been released already.

Depends on whether it's a metric tone (tonne?) or a good 'ol fashioned tone! 😂😂

 

[Homy]

Watch the RTX 3080 165W with a huge 300W power brick getting destroyed when unplugged (like a true laptop should be), even in performance mode while using 4 times more battery power! Only 29 fps vs 92 for M1 Max running a Rosetta game.

 

[mi7chy]

Watch the RTX 3080 165W with a huge power brick getting destroyed when unplugged (like a true laptop should be), even in performance mode! Only 29 fps vs 92 for M1 Max runing a Rosetta game.

It has three modes, quiet, balanced and performance modes. On battery it switches to quiet mode with 40W dGPU power limit to conserve battery but I think there's an override. M1 Max on battery for gaming will drain the battery fast so too bad they didn't give a complete picture by not showing gaming battery life unplugged. On my MBA M1 it drained the battery from ~80% to 20% doing a few game benchmarks.

 

[vir]

Toss out your Switches.

 

[cardfan]

All those unplugged hardcore laptop gamers putting in multiple hour sessions on subway commutes and camping excursions will certainly be pleased with the news. Toss out your much more convenient Switch and iPhone form factors now, this is the new way.

Lol. This must be new thing. Gaming. Unplugged.

 

[quarkysg]

Lol. This must be new thing. Gaming. Unplugged.

Flying to the moon was thought to be impossible not too long ago. Cars couldn't break 200mph not too long ago. SoC power has been steadily increasing for the past 5 years. Game quality and battery life for mobile games will be good enough pretty soon. Food for thoughts?

 

[Pressure]

Sony and Microsoft would love to have that performance in a console while only using 90 Watt at full load. That simplifies everything from power delivery to PCB design. It simply becomes cheaper to make.

The future looks bright for macOS gaming once developers get on board. Hopefully this time Microsoft don't buy them out before they release the next big thing like they did in the 90's.

I don't think Steve Jobs ever got over it when the nearly exclusive Apple developer (Bungie Studios) that made Marathon got acquired (by Microsoft) just before they were to release Halo ...

 

[EntropyQ3]

All those unplugged hardcore laptop gamers putting in multiple hour sessions on subway commutes and camping excursions will certainly be pleased with the news. Toss out your much more convenient Switch and iPhone form factors now, this is the new way.

Honestly, I think it’s wise to remember that mobile + Switch constitutes roughly two thirds of all game software revenue.

Which is why I always hear a note of desperation when terms such as ”real” gaming are tossed around. I’m part of that generation of people that have played games on PCs and followed the technical development with interest since the birth of 3D-raster graphics. But I’d be a fool not to recognize that sitting down in front of a stationary computer to play games is something old people do.
Neither of my daughters see the point of computers at all really, even laptops. Clumsy, and with a keyboard annoyingly permanently attached. Gaming PCs are dinosaurs. Big, powerful, and an evolutionary dead end.

 

[quarkysg]

Honestly, I think it’s wise to remember that mobile + Switch constitutes roughly two thirds of all game software revenue.

Which is why I always hear a note of desperation when terms such as ”real” gaming are tossed around. I’m part of that generation of people that have played games on PCs and followed the technical development with interest since the birth of 3D-raster graphics. But I’d be a fool not to recognize that sitting down in front of a stationary computer to play games is something old people do.
Neither of my daughters see the point of computers at all really, even laptops. Clumsy, and with a keyboard annoyingly permanently attached. Gaming PCs are dinosaurs. Big, powerful, and an evolutionary dead end.

I agree with your points. ROTL on the comments about only old people game on stationary computer.

I also think the future of gaming is definitely mobile.

I imagine something like the Apple AR/VR goggle paired with iPhones, iPads and Macs, all linked together for an immersive game play experience. Apple's AS SoC is slowly making that possible with maybe 5-6 hours of game play. And the application will not be just for gaming.

 

[Chozes]

Sony and Microsoft would love to have that performance in a console while only using 90 Watt at full load. That simplifies everything from power delivery to PCB design. It simply becomes cheaper to make.

The future looks bright for macOS gaming once developers get on board. Hopefully this time Microsoft don't buy them out before they release the next big thing like they did in the 90's.

I don't think Steve Jobs ever got over it when the nearly exclusive Apple developer (Bungie Studios) that made Marathon got acquired (by Microsoft) just before they were to release Halo ...

Are Bungie going to release Destiny on Mac?

 

[FurtherForm]

It took me a while to figure out that talk about "real" gaming means games that are popular with game media and streamers right now. Trending games with buzz and hype. If the game is not making headlines on those crowds, it ain't a "real" game. I'm not sure what to think of this. It is not only partially about playing games and enjoying them but also quite much about participating in the crowd / social dynamics - anticipation, expectations, hype, watching trailers, watching streams or streaming onself, reading reviews, sharing opinions etc. And a game worthy considering a game is only something that this scene of gamers and gaming as this wide social and commercial phenomena notices it and pays attention to it. Somehow it is less to play games that no-one streams or talks about or there ain't an active fan community for it? Sure, they are good games but not part of this relavant, trendy, topical, mainstream, popular, buzzing - "real" gaming.

Considering, every single day, hundreds of games are released and no-one notices (rightfully so). Thus there are is playing games and gaming as separate things. Likewise, I quess, there are tons of tv-shows, movies and books that are released and then those that are relevant and you can have straming service full of moies and still say it has nothing, if everythign there is right-to-dvd or indies of which none has heard of. ... there is something flawed in this.
I get the gist but the terminology/semantics of the whole thing doesn't sit right. Should we be talkinga bout pop-games akin to pop-music? Maybe that is better. Macs lack have pop-games.

 

[diamond.g]

Sony and Microsoft would love to have that performance in a console while only using 90 Watt at full load. That simplifies everything from power delivery to PCB design. It simply becomes cheaper to make.

The future looks bright for macOS gaming once developers get on board. Hopefully this time Microsoft don't buy them out before they release the next big thing like they did in the 90's.

I don't think Steve Jobs ever got over it when the nearly exclusive Apple developer (Bungie Studios) that made Marathon got acquired (by Microsoft) just before they were to release Halo ...

But would they really? Are we really saying that the M1 Max is cheaper than what they are currently getting from AMD so they can sell a video game console for <= $499 and eventually not take a loss on each console sold (we know Sony is no longer taking a loss)?

 

[quarkysg]

But would they really? Are we really saying that the M1 Max is cheaper than what they are currently getting from AMD so they can sell a video game console for <= $499 and eventually not take a loss on each console sold (we know Sony is no longer taking a loss)?

I would think it is a possibility. Take the M1 Mac Mini. Apple is selling it for $699 for the base model. With Apple's famous 30% margin, it translate to $489 cost. Granted the M1 is a lot less powerful, but I would think manufacturing the Mini would be a lot more expensive compared to the console (i.e. precision aluminium milling compared to plastic molds). Throw in a M1 Pro in the mix and we probably can reach the $499 price point without making a loss.

 

[diamond.g]

Are Bungie going to release Destiny on Mac?

That depends on what API's the game engine supports

 

[diamond.g]

I would think it is a possibility. Take the M1 Mac Mini. Apple is selling it for $699 for the base model. With Apple's famous 30% margin, it translate to $489 cost. Granted the M1 is a lot less powerful, but I would think manufacturing the Mini would be a lot more expensive compared to the console (i.e. precision aluminium milling compared to plastic molds). Throw in a M1 Pro in the mix and we probably can reach the $499 price point without making a loss.

The base model has 8GB of Ram and a 256GB SSD. To get it to match the current gen storage and RAM specs you are looking at $1300 You think they could bring that price down to $499 and throw in a M1 Pro?

 

[EntropyQ3]

The base model has 8GB of Ram and a 256GB SSD. To get it to match the current gen storage and RAM specs you are looking at $1300 You think they could bring that price down to $499 and throw in a M1 Pro?

Apples pricing of RAM and NAND is highway robbery, and shouldn't be considered if we are talking about manufacturing cost. I'd refer to resources such as DRAMeXchange and similar to see current spot market pricing for these resources. Apple obviously pays less. The M1P SoC is clearly a step up in cost from the PS5 chip, given that it is of similar size but on a more expensive node, not to mention the M1Max. (The original M1 should be a fair bit cheaper.)

It's an academic discussion, unfortunately.

 

[diamond.g]

Apples pricing of RAM and NAND is highway robbery, and shouldn't be considered if we are talking about manufacturing cost. I'd refer to resources such as DRAMeXchange and similar to see current spot market pricing for these resources. Apple obviously pays less. The M1P SoC is clearly a step up in cost from the PS5 chip, given that it is of similar size but on a more expensive node, not to mention the M1Max. (The original M1 should be a fair bit cheaper.)

It's an academic discussion, unfortunately.

So we think Apple pays what ~$400 for the $1300 M1 Mini?

 

[throAU]

As macOS has never been huge with games next to no game developer has used the Metal API as a result of Mac's have been lacking in graphics performance for years. Now we suddenly have capable graphics performance but as a result of no developer taking the time to have their games release on macOS using the Metal API they are vastly underperforming as a result of the games not being optimised for the platform at hand.

There's a heap of games on iOS that will make the jump or even run natively.

There's a heap of developers who literally grew up writing code for iOS who will likely make the step to game development for macOS.

Whilst the current situation for gaming on macOS is far from great, the future is looking good.

 

[throAU]

That depends on what API's the game engine supports

There's a shim for Vulkan to Metal called MoltenVK so anything that supports Vulkan shouldn't be too difficult to port.

And porting between DX12 and Vulkan isn't too difficult as heaps of windows developers are already providing support for both.

 

[quarkysg]

The base model has 8GB of Ram and a 256GB SSD. To get it to match the current gen storage and RAM specs you are looking at $1300 You think they could bring that price down to $499 and throw in a M1 Pro?

Actually I do. Such a theoretical device would not need expensive high speed SSD and could use 16GB LPDDR4X RAM with a 256-bits data bus. Could perform quite well. The theoretical SoC would only need the CPU and GPU clusters. The media en/decoders, NPUs, etc can be removed to save die space. I think a 4E + 4P with 16 GPU cores would be quite a good console.

In fact, for Apple to achieve their famed 30-40% margin, taking into consideration that they have high operating cost (e.g. they spend upwards of $10b yearly for R&D) their product margins would be higher than 30-40% to cover operating costs.

 

[diamond.g]

There's a shim for Vulkan to Metal called MoltenVK so anything that supports Vulkan shouldn't be too difficult to port.

And porting between DX12 and Vulkan isn't too difficult as heaps of windows developers are already providing support for both.

For Destiny 2 it is 100% possible the game uses GNM(X) and DX11/12 and not Vulkan. So Bungie would need to fix that first.

 

[diamond.g]

Actually I do. Such a theoretical device would not need expensive high speed SSD and could use 16GB LPDDR4X RAM with a 256-bits data bus. Could perform quite well. The theoretical SoC would only need the CPU and GPU clusters. The media en/decoders, NPUs, etc can be removed to save die space. I think a 4E + 4P with 16 GPU cores would be quite a good console.

In fact, for Apple to achieve their famed 30-40% margin, taking into consideration that they have high operating cost (e.g. they spend upwards of $10b yearly for R&D) their product margins would be higher than 30-40% to cover operating costs.

To go up against the PS5 and XSX? Seems like you are describing a XSS tier system for XSX pricing.