The way I see it, TBDR does not need as much GPU grunts compared to IMR rasteriser. Just need proper optimisation.
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M1 Pro/Max's GPU performance for gaming is quite poor.
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Makes cross platform games harder. Usually only 1st party games do stuff like that.
Maybe, but the traditional "gaming PC" has proven to be remarkably resilient. People predicted the end of it in the early 2000's and again last decade, and yet it's still around. VR has been around for a decade and hasn't really taken off. Mobile gaming seems strongly correlated with ADHD (I'm only half joking) - and while we can joke that "old people" game at their desktops (rather than at dinner or on the toilet?) truly immersive narative-driven games are far more popular on PC's and powerful consoles, rather than mobile.
Performance mode is on in the video. People say the 30 fps cap is on by Nvidia but they admit even without it the 3080 couldn't reach as high fps as M1 Max on battery.
Yes, M1 Max naturally drains the battery with heavy usage but how long would that 3080 last at the same performance level? 24 min according to the video!
That happened in the early 2000’s, right? Judging by Apple’s actions since then, I’m not sure it even registered with Steve.
The death of the gaming PC is on the same list as year of the Linux desktop in my opinion.
In fact we’ve seen a resurgence in it with game streaming (like on twitch). Something that can’t really be replaced with streaming services (like GeForce now).
The only barrier I can see is the rapidly rising prices of PC components. If cryptocurrency is here to stay, then I’m not sure that market will ever recover.
Hah. I've been catching up to new posts in this thread today so I got to see that @vir went back and edited most or all of his posts in this thread down to nonsensical one-liners with little connection to the flow of conversation. What's the matter, buddy, was your trolling a little too obvious?
I just got an Xbox Series S, so gaming isn't what I'm concerned with. The reason why I went for the 32 Core GPU and 64 GBs of RAM is that I work in Figma which is completely powered by the GPU. With my previous XPS 15 with an nVidia 1050 TI, it would regularly take up 99% of the GPU, and sometimes 6-8 GBs of system RAM. With unified memory and the GPU sharing memory with the system, I need as much RAM and GPU power as I can get, especially with the fact that I will be using this computer professionally for the next 4-5 years.
Gamers go get your RGB 7 pound monstrosities. Leave us professionals alone with threads claiming these graphics cards are failures for not running League of Legends to your liking.
Gamers go get your RGB 7 pound monstrosities. Leave us professionals alone with threads claiming these graphics cards are failures for not running League of Legends to your liking.
Ah, the "real games" argument cropped up after only a single intervening post. Delicious.
People aren’t immersed in Roblox? Animal Crossing? Only "truly immersive narative-driven games" published by one of five megapublishers counts as gaming?
You do have a point, of course PC gaming will go on for the foreseeable future. Increasing prices will shrink volumes but the same price increases may well hold total hardware revenues up. But the volume sales of AAA titles have been on consoles for years, and someone who pays $2000 for a graphics card doesn’t pay a cent more for software than anyone else.
Software publishers will go where the money is.
And the gaming market is in constant slow flux, Acti/Blizzard didn’t stop developing Diablo Immortal even though the critisism was merciless. They know where the money is - and they want it. Nobody believes that the mobile trend will reverse and people will go back to sit in front of their Windows PCs. Publishers try to navigate, sometimes affect, these shifting winds, but overall it’s pointless to argue with the weather.
It may be that the big publishers will port some of their titles to MacOS if they fit the perceived demographic. It may be that there will be ambitious developers migrating projects from iOS to MacOS. It may be … a lot of things. We don’t know the future.
The best we might achieve here is some different viewpoints that may help us understand developers and publishers, maybe even predict a few things.
It’s OK to be biased and/or have personal preferences, but just shutting ones eyes to numbers and trends, defining some games or gameplayers as "real" disregarding those that don’t fit the narrative, et cetera never led to much fruitful discussion.
Yeah, but it isn't that difficult. Pretty sure there's also DX12 to Vulkan shims in Proton, wine, etc.
Also, Doom 2016 was natively ported to Vulkan inside of a month.
None of these things are difficult if the demand is there - most of the work is already done, and writing/porting to Vulkan (and just using MoltenVK as a lightweight compatibility shim) opens up the Linux market (along with the SteamDeck, etc.) as well.
OK, I see Mac Rumors has a few characters. OK, I'm game
Did I say 'only'? I quite literally said "far more popular" as in those games dominate those platforms, whereas the mobile platform is dominated by other genres. Namely the kinds of games you play while in line for the bathroom at Starbucks.
I'm not going to bite here. I've owned computers from Atari's custom PC's and consoles again from Atari's to PlayStation (1, 2 ad 4) and I agree with you broadly on where volumes are and have been historically. But I think it's a misconception that PC gaming is all $2000 GPUs and latest tech. You only have to look at the Steam surveys to see there are all manner of configurations and capabilities. I built a PC in 2003 with an Athlon 64 3200 and a Radeon 9700 Pro that lasted me until 2011 playing Left 4 Dead marathons for years. Regardless, I am not sure what your point is here, you're saying it like it's some kind of news. It's not.
You're reading too much into what I said. You don't know me, so if you want that more interesting conversation, talk to what was said, not what you think is easy to argue against.
What I said is that PC gaming is likely not going anywhere in the near future. It's demise has been predicted many times before and while one day it might come, it's a bit like the genius who predicts a recession every year and once in a decade or so, is right.
Yup.
But don't trust me, do the math yourself and see where you end up. We know (public statement) that Sony doesn't take a loss on the PS5. The diskless version (as the Mac mini is diskless) is sold to consumers for $399. It has a 16GB of GDDR6 (more expensive than the LPDDR4x in the Mini), 1TB of NAND (at faster speed than the Mini), and a 308mm² APU (TSMC 7nm) that Sony buys from AMD (who makes a profit from them!), whereas the Mini uses a 121mm² SoC (TSMC 5nm) that Apple needn't pay margins to any other manufacturer on.
For good measure, throw in that the PS5 needs more expensive parts in power supply and cooling, plus the procurement clout of Apple.
So - there really is no question, is there?
Lets depolarise and perhaps clarify the exchange a bit. I fully agree that PC gaming is not going anywhere in the near future.OK, I see Mac Rumors has a few characters. OK, I'm game
Did I say 'only'? I quite literally said "far more popular" as in those games dominate those platforms, whereas the mobile platform is dominated by other genres. Namely the kinds of games you play while in line for the bathroom at Starbucks.
I'm not going to bite here. I've owned computers from Atari's custom PC's and consoles again from Atari's to PlayStation (1, 2 ad 4) and I agree with you broadly on where volumes are and have been historically. But I think it's a misconception that PC gaming is all $2000 GPUs and latest tech. You only have to look at the Steam surveys to see there are all manner of configurations and capabilities. I built a PC in 2003 with an Athlon 64 3200 and a Radeon 9700 Pro that lasted me until 2011 playing Left 4 Dead marathons for years. Regardless, I am not sure what your point is here, you're saying it like it's some kind of news. It's not.
You're reading too much into what I said. You don't know me, so if you want that more interesting conversation, talk to what was said, not what you think is easy to argue against.
What I said is that PC gaming is likely not going anywhere in the near future. It's demise has been predicted many times before and while one day it might come, it's a bit like the genius who predicts a recession every year and once in a decade or so, is right.
I do not, however, feel that dismissing the bulk of gaming, and global gaming software revenue as (and you did it again) "the kinds of games you play while in line for the bathroom at Starbucks." is a good idea.
It's OK if AAA games is all you care about. But that's personal, and demonstrably not where the overall market is at.
I used to love gaming back in the stone ages when I was in college. Games like Quake on the local college computer lab LAN were my favorites. Ironically, my 9 and 11 year old sons are content with much simpler games like Roblox as you called out.
Roblox and Minecraft while graphically very basic, really seem to capture their attention. Roblox in particular seems to have endless amounts of mini-games with creative and rich gameplay and interactions... much more dynamic than many of the AAA titles the kids can access on their Xbox, despite being orders of magnitude less graphically rich.
So this weekend, I anticipate having to install Roblox as the one and only game I have on my new M1 Max MBP*... so I can have a "game day" with my boys. I'm no longer a gamer, but I have to admit I DO enjoy showing the boys what the old man can still do in some of the FPS clones Roblox offers. Nothing more satisfying than being able to call my 11 year old a n00b.
*I tried to play on my phone or iPad, but I'm absolutely hopeless without a keyboard and mouse.
There is a better version of Minecraft available, sadly the feature pack doesn't work on the Java Edition, nor does it auto enhance already built worlds. You can also reshade the Java edition to look like it has RT (same for Roblox).
That makes me wonder, with the youngsters growing up on touchscreens, will future big games implement touch controls too?
Bluetooth controllers work with ipads and iphones, you can even buy them with a built in phone holder...
Of all the youngsters I’ve seen playing games on their iPad or phone, none have been using a controller. Anecdotal I know, but I’d bet money that it’s more common than using a controller with an iPad.
I'll give you that.
However it think we are SO close to an affordable (and GOOD) set of AR/VR glasses that the future of gaming is going to be gestures. Tracking hands, eyes, etc.
If anyone has seen what the HoloLens (both eyes and hand tracking) or the hand tracking in the Oculus Quest 2 can do and think only say 2-3 years of technological progress ahead, I think its inevitable. Essentially, both hand and eye tracking is already pretty good without needing a controller.
It's only going get cheaper and better.
For gaming and a lot of other applications, touch-screens are (in my opinion) a half-way step. They're 2d only and not great for manipulating or interacting with 3d objects. Just like games largely went from 2d to 3d in the late 90s, so will user interfaces as the price and equipment (in terms of usability and comfort) becomes acceptable. Even without the VR/AR aspect a headset of some form brings to the table, the 3d realism due to the stereoscopic effect is worth it alone.
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If there’s anything I learned in the past two years is that you can’t predict the future. Who knows what will happen?