I just read quite some reviews, reporting Wi-Fi problems with several docks underneath the MacMini.
FYI: If you put a metal plate aka "stand" underneath a plastic bottom of a device, it might block some signals...
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Mac mini M4 (2024): docks, stands and other accessories
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FYI: If you put a metal plate aka "stand" underneath a plastic bottom of a device, it might block some signals...
Okay, I think I know what you mean. In my case the Mac mini would be under the table but with nothing underneath it.
My "Trashcan"-Mac resides under the table for 10 years now - that is no problem.
Try to use the free stand you have at home - put it on the back of a sturdy steel coocking pot and see, what happens.
any update on this ? my desk is the same color so it would blend , but air flow worries me
Hi, yes, it is affecting airflow and performance slightly on most demanding long renders.
On the test project using this stand the difference in rendering After Effects Project was mostly ~30s-1min longer sometimes just 10-15s longer.
Without the stand Mini rendered it in ~24min.
The fans were at the same levels at max around ~3150rpm.
It is hard to tell what's the real impact and I should probably wait longer to cool down enclosure completely before another try.
Clearly this tiny computer wasn't mean't for brutal rendering, especially one after another with or without the stand.
Rendering smaller projects didn't take a hit at all. Render times were the same.
So the difference is not big, but the demanding tasks could differ, so the differences also could be bigger.
Ambient temp was ~21C.
While normal usage no weird spinning fans, all good.
Of course no problems with wifi.
EDIT: I run the same test project from cold enclosure and the time was
With dock: 23m45s
Bare Mini: 23m30s
So here it is, the difference in temps are minimal at best.
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So my wife’s old MacBook Pro (very old) died of swelling battery and I replaced it with a M4 Mini which she is very happy about. Booted once and attached to her Caldigit dock. I was impressed with the performance and upgraded my systems and shuffled around some of my older machines to act as a NAS/Time machine server and purchased a M4 Pro mini for my work setup.
As I already have a Caldigit Dock I did not worry about ports, but did notice a special on these stands on Amazon and got one to assist with airflow, etc. have had no problems with WiFi, airflow is fine, Magic Keyboard & Trackpad work without problems. Very satisfied with the simple solution.
As I already have a Caldigit Dock I did not worry about ports, but did notice a special on these stands on Amazon and got one to assist with airflow, etc. have had no problems with WiFi, airflow is fine, Magic Keyboard & Trackpad work without problems. Very satisfied with the simple solution.
I have the same stand. Idling/surfing temps without stand 28ºC, with the stand 32ºC. It does affect airflow for very little benefit. I use it now upside down to raise the Mini off the table. Not the most stable setup as you can knock it off its perch quite easily but at least it improves airflow and access to the on/off button that way. If you are not going to thrash the unit with any sustained heavy workloads, then you could use it as intended.
So your Mac Mini runs a few degrees hotter using then stand than sitting on your desk? Perhaps the Mini's body transmits heat into your desk more efficiently than into the air and stand (which it has little surface area contact with)?
I would think part of the hoped for benefit of better air flow would be to cool the Mini.
I also observed warmer idle internal temps.
I think the stand isn’t optimally designed. The flow with hot air is slightly restricted, escaping hot air hits one of the walls of the stand, I think the temps could be lower if the escaping hot air wouldn’t hit any obstacle and moved more freely.
I’m tempted to modify the stand but I don’t have proper tools to work with wood.
I don't think this particular stand offers better airflow if used as intended. At best it would be neutral. It raises the Mini by the same amount it obscures it, except for the cutaway around the power button. Additionally, there are optional adhesive mesh dust filters for the intake, which I applied. That shouldn't really affect airflow that drastically but it does. Down the line it should avoid all the dustbunnies that might end up in the Mini, so it depends on how dusty your environment is as to whether you should bother with it. Up to now, I kept the Mini raised on a cassette case to improve airflow. I haven't measured temps flat on a table as mine is a little cluttered at the moment.
I needed 2 plain USB ports for my M4 and looked at these attractive stands/hubs, at the end not finding the near usd$100 as good deals went to option #2 with 2 USB/C adapters for usd$10. I may come back to them as my needs change and the price come down.
If you look at Apple's Mac mini illustrations, the air vents around the bottom are both intake and exhaust. The mini sucks in cool air on one side and blows out hot air on the opposite side. I think the desk surface is needed to keep those streams separated. In free space, the mini will likely suck in more of the hot air it produces.
How about this? 'Recycled' from part of a post I made in a different thread on April 7th.
SonnetTech has a new (according to their website) Echo 13 Thunderbolt 5 SSD Dock and here's a blurb from that: "Sonnet Echo™ 13 Thunderbolt™ 5 SSD Dock delivers next level storage performance — 6000 MB/s with Thunderbolt 5 computers, 3400 MB/s when used with a Thunderbolt 4 or 3 computer — with your choice of pre-installed Kingston®M.2 NVMe® SSD storage. Connections? Echo 13 has you covered with four Thunderbolt 5 ports, four USB-A ports, one 2.5Gb Ethernet port, one headphone jack, SD and microSD card slots, plus 8K display support."
Might be of interest for those looking at the CalDigit offerings but desiring an internal SSD slot. But here's something strange - I look at the pricing, and it's based on an SSD being included:
1 Terabyte - $400 (Note: I'm rounding up a penny; not a fan of the $x.99 thing).
2 Terabyte - $500.
4 Terabyte - $670.
I don't see an option to buy it without an included SSD, and I see the term 'built-in SSD.'
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When I looked at this info. earlier in April, it looked like a pretty good value, if you want to get an external SSD (Just as the roughly $500 CalDigit TS5 Plus was praised as a good value if you want a 10-Gbps ethernet connection included).
Granted, looks like you can't buy 3rd party and put your own SSD in, but the price looks right, no worries about 'wrong brand' compatibility issues or whether (and if so what) 3rd party heat pad/tape in what thickness to buy and add with it, etc...
Anyone else notice that asterisk below the diagram?
Maybe no big deal, just seemed odd to me...
@drrich2 Intel will only certify TB5 NVMe enclosures if they can test it with the SSD included.
So there are (so far) no certified TB5 empty enclosures.
@M4th "Mac Compatibility: 8K displays not supported"
That's down to Apple.
The M4 Max doesn't support 8K over Alt-mode DP 2.1, only using the HDMI 2.1 port.
M4 Max
Simultaneous support for up to five displays:
Simultaneous support for up to eight displays:
Only the very recently announced M3 Ultra Studio can support 8K from it's TB5 ports - 'Four 8K displays'.
It's likely the marketing for the Echo 13 TB5 dock was drawn up before the M3 Ultra was announced...
So there are (so far) no certified TB5 empty enclosures.
@M4th "Mac Compatibility: 8K displays not supported"
That's down to Apple.
The M4 Max doesn't support 8K over Alt-mode DP 2.1, only using the HDMI 2.1 port.
M4 Max
Simultaneous support for up to five displays:
- Up to four displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
- Up to two displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at up to 240Hz over HDMI
Simultaneous support for up to eight displays:
- Eight displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at up to 144Hz
- Four displays with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at up to 240Hz
Only the very recently announced M3 Ultra Studio can support 8K from it's TB5 ports - 'Four 8K displays'.
It's likely the marketing for the Echo 13 TB5 dock was drawn up before the M3 Ultra was announced...
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Interesting. I wondered how this is likely to play out in the real world, how vendors of external SSD housings intended to be 'TB5 class' would indicate that if their enclosure couldn't be certified by Intel. USB 4 v.2? TB compatible?
I knew Acasis for a reputable brand, judging from other's posts on MacRumors, so I went to their site. Lo and behold -
Acasis 80Gbps M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure Compatible with Thunderbolt 5
$289.00(27Reviews)
- Model: TB501; TB501Pro
- Read&Write Speed Over 6000MB/s
- Dual Chip Design: JHL9480, RTL9210
- Compatible with Thunderbolt 5/4/3, USB 4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
- Supports 8TB 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 NVMe SSD
- Plug-and-Play, Tool-Free, Adjustable Cooling Fan
- Aluminum Alloy Shell Accelerates Heat Dissipation
Intel can only gatekeep so much, and also because of the licensing requirements is so strict, that even "reputable brands" choose to ignore it. And then seller sites even including Amazon is not going to police minor wording differences in the listings.
An interesting related note: if we have to be precise, literally no Thunderbolt 4 NVMe enclosure exists, because the specific generation of TB4 JHL peripheral chip made by Intel actually dropped available PCIe bandwidth from TB3 chip, no manufacturer in their right mind was going to use that chip when the TB3 chip is better (for being used in NVMe enclosure). All Thunderbolt enclosures, certified or not, are either TB3 and TB5. But close to nobody would know or care this fact, and keep calling the TB3 being TB4 enclosures since they technically behave the same, or let's say get the same performance on a TB4 host. The waters get even muddier when USB4 enclosures with ASM / Realtek chips claiming they are "TB4 compatible".
Thunderbolt and USB-C is just a huge mess, as always.
Hey guys. I’m in the market for a M4 Mini but have been agonising over the spec for months.
Having a limited budget and wanting the best value I have naturally wanted to buy the base model but I am not at all keen on the very restrictive storage of it.
I don’t want to go the internal replacement route because I can’t afford to replace it if I damage it while doing that, I don’t have a Mac around to do the process, I don’t want to void my warranty and I don’t want any chance of having the SSD stop working after an update.
So, five months after launch and with all the things collectively learned since then by users of the M4 Mini, what is the optimal external SSD solution to cope with how small the base storage is?
And what thread is it best to discuss this in?
Thanks.
Having a limited budget and wanting the best value I have naturally wanted to buy the base model but I am not at all keen on the very restrictive storage of it.
I don’t want to go the internal replacement route because I can’t afford to replace it if I damage it while doing that, I don’t have a Mac around to do the process, I don’t want to void my warranty and I don’t want any chance of having the SSD stop working after an update.
So, five months after launch and with all the things collectively learned since then by users of the M4 Mini, what is the optimal external SSD solution to cope with how small the base storage is?
And what thread is it best to discuss this in?
Thanks.
From reply 447 above:
"Having a limited budget and wanting the best value I have naturally wanted to buy the base model but I am not at all keen on the very restrictive storage of it."
If you buy only "the base model", you may find yourself unhappy with it before too long.
I'd suggest the m4 Mini, 32gb of RAM, and a 1tb SSD.
That should remain competitive for 5-7 years ahead -- it has "room to grow" that will fit the growing demands of the OS.
To save money, IF you have the ability to buy from Apple's online refurbished page, get it from there.
You could get away with 32gb/512gb, with an external SSD.
But you want to be able to BOOT and RUN from the internal SSD.
"Having a limited budget and wanting the best value I have naturally wanted to buy the base model but I am not at all keen on the very restrictive storage of it."
If you buy only "the base model", you may find yourself unhappy with it before too long.
I'd suggest the m4 Mini, 32gb of RAM, and a 1tb SSD.
That should remain competitive for 5-7 years ahead -- it has "room to grow" that will fit the growing demands of the OS.
To save money, IF you have the ability to buy from Apple's online refurbished page, get it from there.
You could get away with 32gb/512gb, with an external SSD.
But you want to be able to BOOT and RUN from the internal SSD.
That's a £1400 machine, full price.
I said I was on a budget and that I was looking at the £600 model, which can now be had for around £500. I'm not sure why you're suggesting a spec that costs more than double what I said I was looking at.
Without taking into account any sales, a look at Apple's website just now:
1.) M4 10 core CPU/10 core GPU, 16 gig RAM, 256 gig SSD: $600 (I'm rounding up a penny on prices).
2.) M4 10 core CPU/10 core GPU, 16 gig RAM, 512 gig SSD: $800.
3.) M4 10 core CPU/10 core GPU, 24 gig RAM, 512 gig SSD: $1,000.
4.) M4Pro 12 core CPU, 16 core GPU, 24 gig RAM, 512 gig SSD: $1,400.
Here's my thinking (disclaimer: no guru and going off impressions of reviewers and posts; mine is an M4Pro and I don't do demanding work).
Judging from reviews, unless you often do computationally highly demanding work, you likely don't need the M4Pro. Be aware you sacrifice TB5 and just get TB4, and I assume you'll mainly use an external SSD, but from discussions elsewhere I suspect an external Thunderbolt 3 SSD's speeds will do you fine. If you ever buy one of those now expensive TB5 docks, yes, the added total bandwidth of TB5 would be nice, but not essential.
16 Gig RAM...seems okay for now, but more RAM means less swap file use of the SSD, plus I don't trust Apple's minimums of much of anything. The multi-year 8 gig RAM debacle comes to mind. 16 Would probably be okay, but if money's not too tight 24 gig would be nice.
256 Gig SSD is, in my opinion, a joke unless you intend to run off an external SSD, and even then, in other threads I've gotten the impression some software prefers to install some content on the internal SSD and it can get crowded on there. I assume you intend to keep this Mini for several years. I recommend aiming for at least 512 gig SSD.
So, I think M4 processor with 512 gig SSD, $800, is the recommended minimum. But now try to get better spec.s for near the same money on the Apple refurb. store or a sale.
If money is tight, it gets down to that vs. the $1,000 version with 24 gig RAM. When a computer is several years old, limited RAM can slow you down. The Mac should still work, but your ability to have multiple app.s running at once, multiple browser tabs open and not have the system get sluggish till you close some things may be impacted. I've got an old 2017 12" Intel MacBook with 8-gig RAM (and even it's got 512-gig SSD!), and that's my experience with it.
A problem with Macs is that as you spec. up, it gets complicated because then just a little higher spec. would be even better. Chasing perceived value.
Note: Apple's education discount, refurb store and 3rd party vendor sales should not be ignored. I'm seeing some nice stuff of the refurb. store right now.
Note #2: If you get a 512-gig SSD and don't require a lot of storage, you may be able to hold off and save your money before buying an external SSD. If you get a 256-gig SSD, you may need that external faster.
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Peripheral matter to consider - if and when you go to an external SSD for cheaper storage, do you plan to make it your Startup Disc (largely ignoring internal storage), your 'home folder' (I don't recall the specifics; never did that) or just use it for big libraries (e.g.: Photos) and to install some app.s?