I have been following this thread with interest. I do plan to tackle either fan upgrades, maybe first doing a deep clean of the original fans to see if that helps/improves temps. But the one fan I would really like to replace with a quieter fan it's the PSU fan..! Have any of you active in this thread replaced the PSU at this time? I get that it's not easy to do but is it worth it? Does a Noctua in its place provide a quieter PSU fan result?
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MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro (4.1/5.1) aftermarket fans WITH automatic SMC control
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Yes. The noctua helps. The replacement isn’t too bad. Lay your MP down on its side, take your time & be methodical.
I’m unsure why the original delta PS fan is noisier than the others but it definitely is.
I’m unsure why the original delta PS fan is noisier than the others but it definitely is.
Push the "fan in the power supply position" and the "fan rear of the CPU cage" back to leave a gap to prevent them from pressing against the mesh grille in front. This will eliminate air intake noise.
I've replaced the PSU fans in several MP4,1/5,1.
Basically you'll have to remove the PSU and I recommend to reroute the new fan cable through the optical bay instead of behind the logicboard (parallel to the SATA cable).
IMO it's definitely worth it and decreases the PSU fan noise to almost inaudible even at rpm > 1000.
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The NF-A series comes with a set of silicone rivets which dampens a lot the vibrations of the fan when installed.
These fans also come with a silicone/rubber type gasket that can be installed between the fan and the case to further eliminate transmission of vibrations and prevents airleaks.
These rivets can also be obtained separately in a set of 16 (in case of e.g. a REDUX fan).
IMHO when installed with a gap between the fan and the frame/case , there will be airleaks and the fan will be less efficient...
Thanks again for your help & expertise @KeesMacPro!Yes, the NF-A 9 FLX in my cMP runs at any rpm (800 up to ~ 1860=max) the SMC dictates or the 3rd party fan control software is set to.
One of the issues i noticed with TG Pro was that with multiple user accounts (on the same OS) with different fan settings , the fans didnt respond correctly , the SMC default min rpm changed etc.etc.
After some communication with TG Pro it appeared that this scenario wasnt foreseen/tested.
Another note is that with TG Pro setting a fan is a bit more advanced/complicated/versatile than with e.g. MacsFanControl
Short version: unless you set the preferences to " overrule system" (IIRC its called that way) it lets you only increase the fan speed above the fan speed the SMC wants.
Question remains why your PCI fan is running that fast.
I would:
- double check the solderings/ pinout
- uninstall TG Pro ( once found the cause you can install it again)
- reset SMC and NVRAM
- install MacsFanControl to check/set fan speeds
Test the PCI rpm at auto(default) and set it manually to min rpm 800 fixed.
Lets see what happens in both cases.
Supposing all is working correctly, with MacsFanControl it's 100% sure that if the fan is set manually to a fixed rpm , it should run at that rpm.
In case it runs at idle (no 3rd party fancontrol set=auto) higher than min rpm , the only reason i can think of is the "racing fan bug".
Nevertheless this is easy to control with e.g.MacsFanControl or iStatsmenus.
AFAIK the cause for this bug isnt 100% clear but i've noticed it on one of my cMP4,1>5,1 single CPUs....
I can live with it very well , since i notice it only before logging into my user account.
In case of curiosity :
AirOut: A solution to the racing fan bug
Introduction The racing fan bug is a well known issue that affects certain cMP systems with upgraded video cards, particularly systems with SMC version 1.39f5. On these systems the PCI, PS, and booster fans spin abnormally fast at idle, causing unnecessary noise. Although the issue appears to...forums.macrumors.com
I’ve not reset SMC yet OR done deep NVRAM reset OR uninstalled TG Pro but I DID install MacsFanControl and it can turn the PCI fan down and the machine is really quiet! = D
There’s still some odd behaviour. If I set MFC to ‘Full Blast’ and then back to auto (system) all the fans wind down other than PCI which needs turned down manually. So although I have still to try the resets and uninstall of TGP think I do have the racing fan bug. My PCI slots have as follows:
4. sonnet tempo dual SSD card in RAID 0
3. Nothing (soon to be sonnet allegro USB card)
2. Highpoint 7505 with 2 Samsung 980 pro NVMe
1. Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB
Now, thinking back, I think the fast PCI fan started after I installed the Highpoint which was actually *before* the Noctua swap! The misdiagnosis is one of the perils of doing too many upgrades at once.
My PCI ambient temperatures seem okay. I pulled the plug on the highpoint fan as the highpoint driver & raid client software thing’s fan speed control had no effect but I might try putting an inline resistor so I can have that running at a low speed too.
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1. the power supply location of the fan pushed back will be closer to the power supply, the better to blow cold air into the power supply.
2. cpu cage rear of the fan I used tape to do the sealing process, the air intake will not be affected, but the fan is farther from the mesh grille.
Glad to be of some help!
That's actually good news so we can eliminate some suspects like bad soldering/wrong pinout and SMC mess.
It's never wrong to reset the SMC and NVRAM anyway, but doesnt look like it will reset the PCI fan to min rpm.
Based on the info here, i suspect a racing fan bug ; it seems to be related to the power draw from the PCI slots.
For example: the MP with this phenomenon I have , this only occurs with a GTX780TI installed , and not with a RX580 Pulse (the GTX780TI is known for high power draw).
As a side note:
I'm not sure if the planned Sonnet allegro will work at max speed and/or the Tempo slot 4 will lose I/O speed , because slot 3 and 4 share lanes on the LogicBoard ...
TBH I never tested a HighPOint , but perhaps it's good to install a serial resistor for the fan to keep it cool...
I do own a I/O Crest though which i converted to passively cooled by replacing the whole top by a bigger heatsink and the Temps stay very low only cooled by the PCI fan.
If you could post a screenshot of the MFC Temps at idle , might be interesting.
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Hi all,
Thanks for the amazing research and plethora of information! My Mac Pro 5,1 is definitely ready for fan upgrade.
I read the whole thread but I'd like to confirm a few things to be 100% sure before purchasing Noctua fans.
1. I can mod dual CPU tray Mac Pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1 ? I think yes but want to be 100% since I've seen many single CPU users here.
2. I've seen two other PSU mod threads with Noctua, they use external PWM controller, is it still necessary?
3. What fan models from Noctua should I get for all fans? Noctua NF-A12x25 for all? Is this the best option?
Thank you! Look forward to doing this mod and reporting the results.
Thanks for the amazing research and plethora of information! My Mac Pro 5,1 is definitely ready for fan upgrade.
I read the whole thread but I'd like to confirm a few things to be 100% sure before purchasing Noctua fans.
1. I can mod dual CPU tray Mac Pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1 ? I think yes but want to be 100% since I've seen many single CPU users here.
2. I've seen two other PSU mod threads with Noctua, they use external PWM controller, is it still necessary?
3. What fan models from Noctua should I get for all fans? Noctua NF-A12x25 for all? Is this the best option?
Thank you! Look forward to doing this mod and reporting the results.
1. Yes
2. No - just the pin swap, SMC does the rest.
3. Depends on your use case but the ULN version of that fan is what many here have used for intake, outtake & PSU (3 separate fans). NF-A9 FLX for PCI. I’ve not done CPU BOOST fans so won’t make a recommendation.
I predict you’ll be pleased with the results!
Hi
The main thing is that you need 3-pin non-PWM fans .
To answer your points a bit more elaborated :
1. Yes, you can theoretically, but (as you may know) the delidded CPUs + heatsinks construction is quite sensitive , so personally i wouldnt remove them unless really necessary...
You're correct: there are no proven 60mm fans mentioned in this thread , because the afore mentioned and because in general the CPUs run a bit hotter than in a single CPU so here comes the other thing to consider:
A replacement fan should :
- run at minimal SMC default
- have a sufficient rpm range to keep all nice and cool
For this specific purpose i got one on my list to test but havent yet: Noiseblocker Blacksilent Pro 60mm PR-2
Runs at 2500rpm max , i recommend to test your setup and load before replacing them with fans that might run at there limits when things get toasty....
2, No, the PWM approach is different and you always need a PWM controller to get it working.
3. As mentioned by @14UG , the NF-A 12x25 ULN works excellent for Intake, Exhaust and PSU .
THe NF-A 9 FLX is the best fan i've tested for the PCI compartment.
P.s. in case you got a CPU replacement fan (60mm) working, please report back to help others.
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OK! I finally got couple of Noctua fans to be delivered tomorrow!
1 NF-A 12x25 ULN for PS and 1 NF-A 9 FLX for PCI!
Will report back in the 2-3 days (hopefully with a successful account)!
😬
1 NF-A 12x25 ULN for PS and 1 NF-A 9 FLX for PCI!
Will report back in the 2-3 days (hopefully with a successful account)!
😬
Great stuff, thank you very much. I'll get started with parts sourcing and also research for CPU fans... I'll keep you posted.
Thank you kindly! This is great, amazing info. I opened my Mac Pro last night, just for the sake of seeing how it all looks, pin swap won't be an issue, it looks scary but it's not! I also oiled all fans to see if it'll help... it helps but now I can hear the loudest fan more while others have lowered noise.
I suspect PSU or PCI are the culprit. Excellent tip for 60mm fans, didn't see that company before, looks very good! I have already manually upgraded my CPU's with delidded ones, so i'm not too concerned about it. However I'm interested in difference between Noiseblocker fan's you've recommended vs Noctua. I see Noctua has
Also just to clarify about PSU fan, I can use NF-A12x25 ULN and not use external controller but have smc do the work? So if I understood correctly, PWM fans won't work for Mac Pro, right?
Thank you!
So here's an update! I realized I have 3x these fans, 120mm Arctic Silver F12 PWM PST. I bought it for another workstation server cooler upgrade project but I never went through with it and I forgot I even had them!
So assuming I don't use 4th pin, can I re use them for PSU, exhaust and intake?
Thanks in advance!
So assuming I don't use 4th pin, can I re use them for PSU, exhaust and intake?
Thanks in advance!
No, you can’t use PWM fans with the pin-swap technique. You need to get a PWM -> analog converter board for each fan as detailed in post #218.
But if you carefully choose your fan min & max rpms to match the originals then this set-up has the potential to be more effective for cooling than the pin-swap with Noctuas but the Noctuas are king if you are trying to get your machine v quiet.
But if you carefully choose your fan min & max rpms to match the originals then this set-up has the potential to be more effective for cooling than the pin-swap with Noctuas but the Noctuas are king if you are trying to get your machine v quiet.
Thanks, Noctua it is then! And to expand a bit, I'll be ordering the following fans next week:
- 3x Noctua NF A12x25 ULN - for PSU, intake, exhaust
- 1x NF-A 9 FLX - PCI
- 2x Noiseblocker Blacksilent Pro 60mm PR-2 per @KeesMacPro advice. I saw you used Noctua NF-R8 redux 1800 for single CPU model, should I use two of those instead?
I look forward to sharing results. So far I'm a bit concerned about the best way to solder PCI and booster pins so I'll probably bug you guys for help when it comes to that
Thank you!
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I have three questions, but first an update: got myself all things needed to install the NF-A 12x25 ULN for PSU and NF-A 9 FLX for PCI but just as I was about to start, I wondered "WHY didn't I buy two more NF-A 12x25 ULN for the CPU cage???".... and of course I went ahead and bought them (it's called upgradeitis , the latter copyright by @14UG). So my fans upgrade project is slightly delayed now, but in about 2 days I should be able to install all 4 at once!
In the meantime, my questions (which come up after carefully reading the complete thread ):
The OP @amedias at some point in the thread documentation process created short cable adapters to facilitate the fan swap/installs. I would like to do the same! Those of you with more experience with the fan install/upgrade process, would you please help me clarify/answer the following--
In the meantime, my questions (which come up after carefully reading the complete thread ):
The OP @amedias at some point in the thread documentation process created short cable adapters to facilitate the fan swap/installs. I would like to do the same! Those of you with more experience with the fan install/upgrade process, would you please help me clarify/answer the following--
- Would using such adapters complicate the positioning of fan cables for long term installs (and not just for short term testing as amedias was doing)? In other words, is there enough space to place these extra pieces in the "puzzle"?
- Using those adapters should eliminate the need of cutting the actual Noctua Fan wires and/or any of the cMP Fan wires, correct?
- If you happen to know, could you point me to the names and/or models for such adapters? I attach a screenshot of amedias original pic in this post. I understand I have to build them, which is easy enough, I just don't want to purchase the wrong connectors...
Attachments
- No, in fact the PSU & INTAKE fans need an extension anyway & there’s room to fit it in with the OUTAKE fan as well. The other fans need soldered so maybe not much benefit to be gained from extensions and I doubt there’s much room for them in the PCI or BOOST fans.
- Yes you can leave the fans intact and butcher the extensions only.
- I doubt there’s an off the shelf adaptor as you want a female 4-pin to a male 3-pin. But you can just use the 4 pin connector from the original Mac Pro fans & fit it to the Noctua extensions that come with the fans anyway. That’s what I did for PSU and INTAKE (for OUTTAKE I just did the swap on the fan as I didn’t need the extra length).
Thanks @14UG -- I looked a bit more into the connectors and such -- in the end it is not cost effective for me, as to do a proper job I would also need to buy a specific crimp tool for the connectors, a tool that I will unlikely use much in the future. So I guess it's best to go with the "butcher" approach! But thanks very much for the answers and clarifications, helped me greatly. Will report back once I get working on the project!
All NF-A models fan come with a bunch of extension cables, low rpm cables(dont use these) and a 4- to 3-pin adapter cable .
If you're a bit comfortable soldering I would "butcher" a 4 pin (female) adapter cable , cut it somewhere in the middle and solder the wires to another 3pin (male) piece of cable.
Or sacrifice the original 4pin cable and solder it to a 3pin (male) connector.
You should isolate every soldering with heatshrink tube or tape to avoid shorts , obviously
I suppose you could also do the pinswap on the adapter cable without opening it.
Anyway, I would recommend to double check any solderings and/or pin swap with a multimeter before installing.
Note that the upper side of a "standard" 4pin connector looks like this: __|-|_____|-| vs. Apple 4 pin : |-|_______|-|
The size and distance between the pins is the same, so if you'd like to connect a "standard" 4pin to the LogicBoard , you'll have to cut off the left notch on top of the connector with a sharp knife , it will look like this: _________|-|
Thanks @KeesMacPro -- Very helpful. Somehow it had escaped me that Apple has its own kind of 4-pin connector different from the standard. Of course, it's not surprising that Apple would do that!
I think I will just go full-butcher-mode and cut the original fan connectors and use those to plug into the logic board, basically what you all have done in this thread. Soldering is not a problem, I have moderate experience and have heat-shrink tubes and heat gun too.
I also ended up getting a NOCTUA NF-A4x20 FLX for the Northbridge heatsink/Tdiode -- I will follow this approach by a fellow forum member, using a SATA to PMW power adaptor. For this specific fan I will likely use the low-noise adaptor, but as you suggest, I will not use it for the other fans.
I think I will just go full-butcher-mode and cut the original fan connectors and use those to plug into the logic board, basically what you all have done in this thread. Soldering is not a problem, I have moderate experience and have heat-shrink tubes and heat gun too.
I also ended up getting a NOCTUA NF-A4x20 FLX for the Northbridge heatsink/Tdiode -- I will follow this approach by a fellow forum member, using a SATA to PMW power adaptor. For this specific fan I will likely use the low-noise adaptor, but as you suggest, I will not use it for the other fans.
Hey @Stex I got that identical NF-A4x20 FLX for northbridge and it works well, though I positioned it over the heatsink, instead of leaning it on heatsink, it helps it cool down a bit more. But don't expect it'll do wonders unless you repaste northbridge heatsink and also replace the plastic rivers with new one. Some use also metal screws instead of plastic ones but there's danger to damage the northbridge so plastic ones are more safe (you can order off eBay or Amazon). Cheers.