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Stex

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Jan 18, 2021
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Hey @Stex I got that identical NF-A4x20 FLX for northbridge and it works well, though I positioned it over the heatsink, instead of leaning it on heatsink, it helps it cool down a bit more. But don't expect it'll do wonders unless you repaste northbridge heatsink and also replace the plastic rivers with new one. Some use also metal screws instead of plastic ones but there's danger to damage the northbridge so plastic ones are more safe (you can order off eBay or Amazon). Cheers.

Thanks @mnlth0 -- Very helpful tips. Would you mind to elaborate a bit more on the exact positioning of the Northbridge fan? What do you mean when say you positioned it "over the heatsink"..?

And yes, I had bought plastic rivets some time ago and have been planning to do a new repaste (or likely graphite pad) on the Northbrigde... but I will wait a bit on that, in the meantime I'll see how the new small fan addition turns out.
 

MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
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I have been following this thread with interest. I do plan to tackle either fan upgrades, maybe first doing a deep clean of the original fans to see if that helps/improves temps. But the one fan I would really like to replace with a quieter fan it's the PSU fan..! Have any of you active in this thread replaced the PSU at this time? I get that it's not easy to do but is it worth it? Does a Noctua in its place provide a quieter PSU fan result?
Yes.
Yes, it is worth it.
 

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
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@MIKX :

I really dont understand at all why you keep posting links to a thread about PWM fans.
In case you didnt realise it until now:

This thread is about non-PWM 3pin fans that work with the SMC (as the title suggests)

The thread you made is about a totally different approach to installing 3rd party fans in a cMP.

In case it's still not clear what i'm suggesting here:

Please stop spamming this thread .
 

mnlth0

macrumors member
Nov 29, 2013
60
15
Thanks @mnlth0 -- Very helpful tips. Would you mind to elaborate a bit more on the exact positioning of the Northbridge fan? What do you mean when say you positioned it "over the heatsink"..?

And yes, I had bought plastic rivets some time ago and have been planning to do a new repaste (or likely graphite pad) on the Northbrigde... but I will wait a bit on that, in the meantime I'll see how the new small fan addition turns out.

Definitely replace the plastic rivets ASAP as that is the only real trick you can do to get lower northbridge temp.

Regarding the fan position, I'm using my Mac Pro atm so I'll provide a photo later... but in imgur link you can see that fan is leaning against heatsink... while I use it positioned horizontally so it blows air directly on it. I'll provide an image later :)
 

Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
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Definitely replace the plastic rivets ASAP as that is the only real trick you can do to get lower northbridge temp.

Regarding the fan position, I'm using my Mac Pro atm so I'll provide a photo later... but in imgur link you can see that fan is leaning against heatsink... while I use it positioned horizontally so it blows air directly on it. I'll provide an image later :)

Great thanks! No rush with the photo! I think I understand how you positioned it. I will test myself both position and see if there is any difference etc. Still have not had enough time to work on the fan replacement project, hopefully soon!
 

Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
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OK, I finally installed the new fans! Took me a lot more time than originally planned, I just couldn't do it earlier. So far, everything seems to be working fine. The Noctua's are incredibly silent!

Just like others in this thread (as previously discussed), I installed the following:

Northbridge Heatsink: NOCTUA NF-A4x20 FLX
PSU and Intake/Exhaust: NF-A 12x25 ULN
PCI: NF-A 9 FLX
  • The NOCTUA NF-A4x20 FLX is very small and does an excellent job with Northbridge temps! Like a 10C decrease! Absolutely worth it based on that! It's powered from one of the optical drive SATAs.
  • Both Intake/Exhaust NF-A 12x25 ULN working well too and very silent!
  • PCI fan NF-A 9 FLX is the also silent compared to the original fan, but it seems to be the loudest of the Noctua's bunch Installed.
One question: I believe I am experiencing what was brought up in prior pages with regards to pulsing fans. It only happens when I put them in System Controlled mode. And it only happens to the Intake/Exhaust fans, they jump around between 0-600 with a system temp of about 30C. If I use my preset settings (iStat menus) then everything seems to running fine and steady, at least that's what iStat reports. Not sure if any of you have an insight into that pulsing issue (in all honesty I have not looked back at the thread before writing this, so maybe the answer is there waiting for me ?).

Also another question: the RPM ranges for these are more limited compared to the original fans, correct? Besides that, the resulting temps are very good. I did a major cleanup of the whole cMP while removing the old fans and installing the new, so I am sure the dust removal and overall cleaning helped quite a lot too!

Thanks to those of you who replied to my questions in this thread and helped move forward with these upgrade, and thanks to the OP for initiating such an amazing thread!
 
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KeesMacPro

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I believe I am experiencing what was brought up in prior pages with regards to pulsing fans. It only happens when I put them in System Controlled mode. And it only happens to the Intake/Exhaust fans, they jump around between 0-600 with a system temp of about 30C.
Congrats Stex !

A "pulsing fan" mentioned in this thread refers to a fan that doesnt work in combination with the SMC at certain (low) RPM, hence exactly as you describe .....
The NF-A 12x25 ULN is tested by others ,including myself, and should work flawlessly when fans are at "auto" , i.e. 600rpm...
I've got several running here daily and no issues with default min rpm.....
I suspect a bad soldering or a loose connector.
Perhaps you accidentally used the extension cable with the resistor integrated (called "low noise adapter cable" IIRC).....?

Are both fans (Intake /Exhaust) behaving this way?
What is the max rpm they can run now?
What is the min rpm they run stable without pulsing?

Another data point could be (but I doubt it) that the symptoms you describe are related to your OC settings, to exclude that perhaps you could boot your Mac Pro to the supported OS (Mojave I guess) and see how the fans behave .....

Quote:" the RPM ranges for these are more limited compared to the original fans, correct?"
Yes , the NF-A 9FLX runs at ~1800rpm max, the NF-A12x25ULN at ~1200rpm.

BTW: is the NF-A 4 running at full speed or did you reduce it e.g. with the adapter cable?
 
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Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
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Thanks for your feedback @KeesMacPro! Before I address your questions, please note that today I started testing the fans again, and with System Controlled setting they all work as intended and there is no more apparent pulsing either in software or visually within the fans. I am a bit puzzled by this. Maybe my answers below might point to a potential cause/reason.

I suspect a bad soldering or a loose connector.

I suspected the bad soldering too or maybe the cracking of one of the soldering points when bending the cables during installation. But again, today they all work as intended in both System Controlled and Custom Settings. so it's likely not a soldering issue.

Perhaps you accidentally used the extension cable with the resistor integrated (called "low noise adapter cable" IIRC).....?

No, I did not use the low noise adapter, only the regular extension. I actually only used one extension for the PSU. I did not use extensions for the PCI and Intake/Exhaust fans.

Are both fans (Intake /Exhaust) behaving this way?

Only at one point both Intake and Exhaust fans were doing the jumping RPM values thing in the software (iStat Menu). But again to the eye, both fans looked steady and normally functional, in other words, visually there was no slowing down or speeding up happening. Maybe those jumps are so fast that they are not visible, I am not sure.

What is the max rpm they can run now?
Manually I can get the NF-A 9FLX fan up to 1680rpm.
Manually I can get the NF-A12x25ULN fan up to 1280rpm.

What is the min rpm they run stable without pulsing?
Hard to answer unfortunately as the pulsing happened only 2-3 times yesterday. And manually the pulsing would not happen, I could go as low as 600rpm and it was steady.

Another data point could be (but I doubt it) that the symptoms you describe are related to your OC settings, to exclude that perhaps you could boot your Mac Pro to the supported OS (Mojave I guess) and see how the fans behave .....

I don't think OC is responsible directly -- but here is my very speculative and very possibly wrong non-theory along with more details:

I did test the fans for the very first time with Mojave on a Bay 1 SSD and the RX580 in PCI slot 1 with only one of my two monitors connected via DP. Nothing else was in the system and no OC anywhere (I have OC on a separate drive from Mojave). The exhaust fan started pulsing pretty much right away then with the System Controlled setting, although as mentioned previously, visually there was no slowing down or speeding up happening. I then shutdown the system, did SMC reset, then started up with a PRAM reset. The pulsing issue appeared to be gone, System Controlled setting was working as intended, steady.

I then Installed all PCIe cards and HDD drives back into the cMP, including the SSD with OC, then started up from Big Sur. Usually, and aside from 11.3+ booting issues, the first booth from Mojave into any Big Sur version has a least one (if not more) documented bugs that require a second restart to resolve them. Bluetooth does not show up the first time due to some issue with USB 1.1 not loading. Additionally in my specific case, some of my PCIe cards do not show up on that first boot, such as my Sonnet RAID card. Basically that first boot from 10.14 into 11.x.x is always problematic and results in an incomplete system. On that first Big Sur boot, I had again the fan pulsing issue but on both Intake and Exhaust fans with the System Controlled setting. Yet again, manually they were normally functional, steady.

My subsequent restarts into Big Sur brought everything back as expected, including the fans with normal SMC control. I wonder if the problem could be a power issue happening, in part, during that first boot in between macOS versions with OC as enabler..? So OC is not the culprit but rather our (dear) cMP hardware is the problem? Conclusion is that everything is working fine now!

BTW: is the NF-A 4 running at full speed or did you reduce it e.g. with the adapter cable?

I am currently using it without the Low-Noise Adapter. I have to admit it is a bit loud (that little fan) at its max 5000rpm. Mainly because it produces a higher pitched sound that the other fans, so it stands out. Those who use the cMP for audio work might benefit from the Low-Noise Adapter. I will probably test it myself to see if it cools enough the NB and is less noisy. Noctua actually ships 2 different Low-Noise Adapters for this small fan. I used 2 extensions to make it easy to swap the Low-Noise Adapters in the future without having to remove the CPUs from the cage. At some point it would be good to come up with something that keeps the little fan in place in a more secure way. But as long as you don't move the cMP, there's little risk of it tilting.


EDIT: Added attachment with screenshot of System Controlled setting showing history of steady 600rpm for exhaust fan. The first "chunk" of values at ~1200rpm were a test of custom settings.
 

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KeesMacPro

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Hi Stex, thx for the detailed update!

Resuming your info it looks like the fans and connections etc are all cool:)

Resetting the SMC was a good idea I think, because it's directly related to the fan behaviour (at default).
Somehow it seems to be related to your OC setup....
When you booted Mojave to test the fans the first time , did you do a (triple) NVRAM reset before?

One thing that crossed my mind too, is that I've had very strange SMC issues on one of my MP 4,1>5,1 about a year ago.
This was at a period where I was testing different fans and Fan controller software .
After uninstalling all of them except for 1, an SMC and NVRAM reset all returned to normal.
Is there more than one fancontroller app e.g. iStatmenus installed?
 
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Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
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When you booted Mojave to test the fans the first time , did you do a (triple) NVRAM reset before?

No. I just started up.. and prayed! LOL
But yes, the PRAM and SMC reset probably were the real fix.

One thing that crossed my mind too, is that I've had very strange SMC issues on one of my MP 4,1>5,1 about a year ago.
This was at a period where I was testing different fans and Fan controller software .
After uninstalling all of them except for 1, an SMC and NVRAM reset all returned to normal.
Is there more than one fancontroller app e.g. iStatmenus installed?

Yes and I forgot to mention it in my previous post. And I remember reading about this potential conflict earlier in this thread. I have in fact way too many fan softwares installed -- iStat is present in Mojave SSD, Big Sur 11.2.3 NMVe, and Big Sur 11.5.1 MNVe. And MacFanControl is present in at least two of those macOS/drives. I will go ahead and de-install all except the iStat Menu in 11.5.1 which is what I primarily use now. Thanks again!
 
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KeesMacPro

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No. I just started up.. and prayed! LOL
?

Returning from OC to a native setup, you should reset NVRAM afaik....;-)
iStat is present in Mojave SSD, Big Sur 11.2.3 NMVe, and Big Sur 11.5.1 MNVe. And MacFanControl is present in at least two of those macOS/drives. I will go ahead and de-install all except the iStat Menu in 11.5.1 which is what I primarily use now. Thanks again!
No need to uninstall all of them , as long as you're not running 2 on the same OS.

You're very welcome!
 

SLVDE

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2021
14
11
Hi All,

Been following for quite some time now and pretty excited to get these set up on my cMP 5,1.

I have 3 NF-A12x25 ULN, a NF-A9 FLX and 2 NF-A4 FLX ordered and coming in tomorrow.

I'm pretty comfortable with the process but was just wondering if anyone has made a video to follow as it may be a little easier. One thing I'm not so clear on is if the 3pin connector on the Noctua's can be used? If I understand correctly it would have to be re-pinned to what post 1 says and also one side shaved down correct? Don't really want to cut the original fans and want to be a last resort.

As per other mods, I'm running MacOS on a NVME drive and bootcamp on a Sata SSD in Slot 1. I also have an RX 5700XT running and powered by the pixlas mod.

My question is, will windows/bootcamp also be able to control temps on through SMC? I already have iStat menus on the mac side and macsfancontrol (free version) on windows. Would this be enough to control fans if needed? I game on windows so would be nice to get improved cooling.

Also, will pixlas mod affect power to the fans in anyway? I assume not but haven't seen that mentioned here yet.

Thanks again for your guys' help!
 

KeesMacPro

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Hi SLVDE,

I have 3 NF-A12x25 ULN, a NF-A9 FLX and 2 NF-A4 FLX ordered and coming in tomorrow.
The NF-A12 are for PSU/Intake/Exhaust , the NF-A9 for PCI fan , but I'm not sure what the 2x 40mm fans are meant for.
If these are meant to replace the CPU Boost fan, this is not the right size as for the single CPU fan=80mm and dual CPU fan=60mm.
Note that for the dual CPU MP , afaik there have not been reported any adequate replacement fan model until now.
For the single CPU there are a few reported fans that work fine.

I'm pretty comfortable with the process but was just wondering if anyone has made a video to follow as it may be a little easier.
AFAIK not , at least not for this specific approach.

One thing I'm not so clear on is if the 3pin connector on the Noctua's can be used? If I understand correctly it would have to be re-pinned to what post 1 says and also one side shaved down correct? Don't really want to cut the original fans and want to be a last resort.
The headers on the LogicBoard are 4-pin , so you'll have to either repin or solder a new cable , as described in post#1 and several other posts.
I understand your concern about cutting the original cables so:
-For the Intake/Exhaust fans it's easy to keep the OEM fan with the original cable attached, and install new fan+new cable.
-For the PCI fan it's inevitable to cut the cable and solder to the new Noctua cable.
-If you'd like to keep the original PSU fan with the cable attached you'll have to remove the LogicBoard because the cable runs behind the board.
It's recommended to route the new cable through the optical bay (like the pixlas cable), to avoid headaches in the future ;)

will windows/bootcamp also be able to control temps on through SMC
Yes, if all is installed correctly the SMC will work as always.

I already have iStat menus on the mac side and macsfancontrol (free version) on windows.Would this be enough to control fans if needed? I game on windows so would be nice to get improved cooling.
Yes, all will work as before, but with a lot less noise.

Note though, as stated in several posts that these replacement fans have a lower max rpm than the original fans.
So I hope you did some testing on your specific setup with different loads , to see if the max rpm of the fans will be sufficient for your MacPro and usage.
Also, will pixlas mod affect power to the fans in anyway?
No, not at all.

Hope to be of some help!
 
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Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
280
189
NYC
Hi All,

Been following for quite some time now and pretty excited to get these set up on my cMP 5,1.

I have 3 NF-A12x25 ULN, a NF-A9 FLX and 2 NF-A4 FLX ordered and coming in tomorrow.

I'm pretty comfortable with the process but was just wondering if anyone has made a video to follow as it may be a little easier. One thing I'm not so clear on is if the 3pin connector on the Noctua's can be used? If I understand correctly it would have to be re-pinned to what post 1 says and also one side shaved down correct? Don't really want to cut the original fans and want to be a last resort.

As per other mods, I'm running MacOS on a NVME drive and bootcamp on a Sata SSD in Slot 1. I also have an RX 5700XT running and powered by the pixlas mod.

My question is, will windows/bootcamp also be able to control temps on through SMC? I already have iStat menus on the mac side and macsfancontrol (free version) on windows. Would this be enough to control fans if needed? I game on windows so would be nice to get improved cooling.

Also, will pixlas mod affect power to the fans in anyway? I assume not but haven't seen that mentioned here yet.

Thanks again for your guys' help!

no videos that I know of. but all here followed the take apart instructions of the cMP technician’s guide. if you don’t have it search this subforum as it has been posted multiple times in other threads.

the instructions guide you and are very clear. you just have to strategize a bit as far which fan you replace first. the PCI is the last one as you need to remove it to access the CPU cage and other fans there.

i did not run into anything unexpected, just a couple of screws were difficult to reach and i struggled a bit. but i probably did not have the perfect tool for them. the only other thing was the little tab connctor on the logic board for the intake fan was very tight. it took a lot of force to snap the cable out, the others were just normal and easy to snap out . be careful if that happens to you, there’s not much space there and excessive force can easily mean bumping into other components etc.
 
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SLVDE

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2021
14
11
Thanks @KeesMacPro & @Stex ! Appreciate the help.

I was a little confused with the BOOSTA and BOOSTB fans. Thought that @Stex mentioned he used the NF-A4 fan to replace it which is why I ordered 2 but since you mention the dual cpu not having any compatible fans yet I'll just return the 2 A4's. Also didn't realize the size difference.

Excited to get these in and will report once I get around to doing so.

Thanks again!
 
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KeesMacPro

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My/our pleasure SLVDE!

The NF-A4 fan is a supplemental fan some people use (dual CPU only) to keep the NorthBridge Temp low.
Most examples I've seen is "ghetto style" : the fan placed directly in front of the NB heatsink.
Depending on the location (Temps) and the load , this can be very effective.
I haven't tested it but in my case the NB stays cool without mods.

About the Boost fans: as mentioned with the Noctuas you'll enjoy way more silence from your MP, but the rpm of the fans is not as extended as the OEM Delta fans.
Especially for a dual CPU , I would recommend to keep the OEM Boost fans for their extremely extended rpm range (even if you could find a replacement fan).
Among others, I've been searching a lot for an adequate replacement fan , with no avail until now (got a few on the list though to test;) ).
The OEM Boost fans can be seen as a safety net in case things get too hot , with their extended rpm range they will keep things under control.
For a single CPU , Temps are generally much lower.

Keep us posted about the progress, enjoy modding the one and only Mac Pro !

BTW: In case you havent yet, I would recommend to install e.g. iStats ,MacsFanControl to check all fans run as expected after the fan replacement.
 
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Stex

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2021
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hey SLVDE… sorry you got confused with the little fans. if you look back at this thread you will find posts from me referring to those little fans with a link to images of the informal setup to cool the Northbridge. I was not very optimistic when I purchased one but I have to say it is very effective. so if you have a spare SATA connection in the optical or even in the main compartment for hard drives, based on my recent experience/experiment I would highly recommend it! there is nothing bad about decreasing the temps of your NB, only better performance and longer (yes even longer) life for this workforce machine. if you have 2 of those tiny fans now, then you could consider adding the second one to the front t facing DIMMs. cooling those is also not a bad idea if you have the proper fan. and btw in this case you only need a SATA power Y cable that provides two 2 pin fan connectors from a single SATA port.
 

KeesMacPro

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Nov 7, 2019
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if you have 2 of those tiny fans now, then you could consider adding the second one to the front t facing DIMMs. cooling those is also not a bad idea if you have the proper fan. and btw in this case you only need a SATA power Y cable that provides two 2 pin fan connectors from a single SATA port.
Got carried away a little ? ; - )
 
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SLVDE

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2021
14
11
Not a bad idea @Stex ! Since I have Pixlas mod, any way to use the 6pin Pcie ports to power the fans instead of the sata? Couldn't really find any adapters. Only found some that went to molex. lol
 

Stex

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Jan 18, 2021
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SLVDE

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2021
14
11
Thanks @Stex! I'd love to get that working but currently have all my hard drive bays full. I do have my 6 pin pcie ports available. Couldn't find a 6 pin pcie to fan power adapter. Anyone know of such a thing?

Otherwise was thinking of possibly frankensteining it with a 6pin to female molex -> Molex to fan power. Would this work?
 

Nilzy1

macrumors newbie
Sep 3, 2021
2
0
Hi, everyone!

I have been reading this thread for a while, and I appreciate all the work you have done researching this method.

Using the information here I have «successfully» installed new Noctua fans in my single processor Mac Pro 4,1 using the pin swap (processor cage, PCIe, power supply).

I just discovered that I had ordered the wrong type of Noctua ULN fans for the power supply and processor cage (NF-S12A ULN, instead of NF-A12x25 ULN).

The Mac seems to get proper cooling, but I am still a little worried.
Am I in risk of frying something, or will the Mac shut down before overheating?

I installed Noctua NF-A9 FLX as the PCIe fan. Tough to get it mounted, but managed to do it using the noctua rubber mounts. Had to cut away the corners of the fan to get access to the mounts..

Next I had planned to replace the processor fan with a Noctua NF-A8 FLX. That fan seems to be the most noisy one.
 

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
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596
Hi, everyone!

I have been reading this thread for a while, and I appreciate all the work you have done researching this method.

Using the information here I have «successfully» installed new Noctua fans in my single processor Mac Pro 4,1 using the pin swap (processor cage, PCIe, power supply).

I just discovered that I had ordered the wrong type of Noctua ULN fans for the power supply and processor cage (NF-S12A ULN, instead of NF-A12x25 ULN).

The Mac seems to get proper cooling, but I am still a little worried.
Am I in risk of frying something, or will the Mac shut down before overheating?

I installed Noctua NF-A9 FLX as the PCIe fan. Tough to get it mounted, but managed to do it using the noctua rubber mounts. Had to cut away the corners of the fan to get access to the mounts..

Next I had planned to replace the processor fan with a Noctua NF-A8 FLX. That fan seems to be the most noisy one.
HI Nilzy1

Looking at the specs of the NF-S12A ULN , max rpm is 800....
Unfortunately this is not enough to keep all cool at medium or higher loads.
I'm sorry but I recommend to replace them (all 3 of them) for the NF-A 12x25ULN (runs at 1200 max).
If you did the pin swap on an extension cable, the fan replacement will be far less time consuming than the first time (plug and play so to say).

Yes. the PCI fan is a patience test to get it in;)
I used the noctua rubbers the other way around to get it in (first in fan then through holes casing).

The NF-A8 FLX (as CPU Boost fan) has not been tested AFAIK , and runs at 2000rpm max , so there is a chance that it will not run fluently at default min rpm = 800...
To stay on the safe side, you could install the NF-R8 redux 1800 , which has been confirmed by others , including myself, to run perfectly as a CPU Boost fan.
In case you prefer to test the NF-A8FLX keep us posted about the results.


In all cases (if you havent ) I'd install e.g. MacsFanControl to check if all is working properly after the fans replacement.

Sorry for the bad news on the NF-S12A ULN !
 
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Zhi

macrumors newbie
Dec 11, 2020
20
32
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The Phanteks T30 fan starts at about 5V, so it will not work with the Mac Pro even with a "voltage to PWM" board.
 
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