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MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro (4.1/5.1) aftermarket fans WITH automatic SMC control
- Thread starter amedias
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That's awesome! Thanks for reporting back with your findings.
So the pinout is as follows (I took the liberty to edit your photo)?:
Did you also take notes of which wires this corresponds to on the Noctua fan?
I'm guessing the 6-pin connector can be removed and the new fan wires be soldered, replacing the old fan wires?
Did you fasten the fan physically using any of the standard Noctua rubber mounts (see photos in posting #160), or did it need to be modified somehow? Maybe you tooks some photos with the new fan installed?
I see Noctua has an NF-A8 FLX which is also a 3-pin 12V fan, but goes up to 2000 RPM and pushes more air. It's also slightly quieter as well.
Did you choose the 1800 RPM NF-R8 REDUX-1800 for a specific reason, or will only that model work in a cMP? Obviously I want the closest possible performance to the original fan.
Sorry for all the questions -I don't want to mess around after having removed the heatsink, thermal paste and desoldered the fan wires
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My pleasure!That's awesome! Thanks for reporting back with your findings.
So the pinout is as follows (I took the liberty to edit your photo)?:
Did you also take notes of which wires this corresponds to on the Noctua fan?
I'm guessing the 6-pin connector can be removed and the new fan wires be soldered, replacing the old fan wires?
Did you fasten the fan physically using any of the standard Noctua rubber mounts (see photos in posting #160), or did it need to be modified somehow? Maybe you tooks some photos with the new fan installed?
I see Noctua has an NF-8 FLX which is also a 3-pin 12V fan, but goes up to 2000 RPM and pushes more air. It's also slightly quieter as well.
Did you choose the 1800 RPM NF-8 REDUX-1800 for a specific reason, or will only that model work in a cMP? Obviously I want the closest possible performance to the original fan.
Sorry for all the questions -I don't want to mess around after having removed the heatsink, thermal paste and desoldered the fan wires
yes, thx for editing my picture ,all correct!
For a Noctua 3-pin colors are : gnd=black , Vc =red and Tacho=yellow
I didnt remove the connector , because it seemed way more easy to cut the fan wires close to the fan and cut the
original heatshrink tube a bit so the new soldered connections (with new heatshrinks around every wire) just stay in this position without touching anything on the pcb.
With the pinout (all wires are black) you can easily identify the cables with a multimeter before soldering them to the Noctua cables.
I used the original rubbers for the new fan, they were in good condition and fit nicely in this construction.
I choose the Redux 1800 because this was mainly to experiment with the pinout and is very affordable (~€15,-).
Besides this fan was confirmed running at 800rpm and for this MP the max rpm 1800 is sufficient.
I've tested (and am still using) the NF-A series fans in another MP , and they are very good quality (superior to the NF-redux but ~ 2X the price).
Not all NF-A types can handle the rpm range of the MP ( the 12x25 FLX for example doesnt but the NF-A9FLX does ) and dont work at min rpm.
The NF-A 8 FLX could work , but someone's got to bite the bullet and test it...
With a max rpm of 2000 , I'd say 50% hit chance.
Concerning performance : this fan (redux 1800) is really noticeable more silent and I dont have the impression it's blowing less air at the same rpm as the OEM Delta (did some medium/heavy workloads for testing).
Actually (i've replaced mechanical HDDs for SSDs in all my Macs a few years ago for several reasons) the only thing I hear with this MP powered up is the GPU fan, nothing else.
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Thanks for confirming the pinouts. Great idea to cut the wires, add heatshrink tubing and solder the wires together (not a good idea to add the heatshrink-tube after soldering Believe me, I know).
So the rubber for mounting it is the same type which is included with the fan? Like this:
I think I'll be replacing it in any case, knowing how many years they've been in use and rubber goes bad after a while.
The "FLX" is around EUR 6 more expensive than the Redux-1800 here (around EUR 17) here.
I hadn't thought about the minimum speed issue of the fans though. What exactly is the minimum speed requirements for this fan in the cMP? I'm sure the manufacturer themselves would know this so we wouldn't have to go through all the hassle of opening up the CPU heatsink etc. just to have to open it up again.
EDIT: I've contacted Noctua, asking about the minimum speeds the fans mentioned recently here can do. I'll report back when I get a reply.
Great to hear of your results! And I appreciate you testing it out with a medium/heavy workload. I still use hard drives because I need a lot of storage space (recently upgraded to a 10 TB drive and a 12TB Time Machine backup drive) in addition to an SSD for OSX and my apps. I don't know how much heat they produce (and thereby affect fan speed/noise), but since the irritating and very noticeable fan noise is present immediately when the computer is powered up and running it's not because of that.
PS: thanks for mentioning the fan letter designations. I had missed that, but edited my post above to the correct names being NF-A8 FLX and NF-R8 REDUX-1800.
Believe me, I know).So the rubber for mounting it is the same type which is included with the fan? Like this:
I think I'll be replacing it in any case, knowing how many years they've been in use and rubber goes bad after a while.
The "FLX" is around EUR 6 more expensive than the Redux-1800 here (around EUR 17) here.
I hadn't thought about the minimum speed issue of the fans though. What exactly is the minimum speed requirements for this fan in the cMP? I'm sure the manufacturer themselves would know this so we wouldn't have to go through all the hassle of opening up the CPU heatsink etc. just to have to open it up again.
EDIT: I've contacted Noctua, asking about the minimum speeds the fans mentioned recently here can do. I'll report back when I get a reply.
Great to hear of your results! And I appreciate you testing it out with a medium/heavy workload. I still use hard drives because I need a lot of storage space (recently upgraded to a 10 TB drive and a 12TB Time Machine backup drive) in addition to an SSD for OSX and my apps. I don't know how much heat they produce (and thereby affect fan speed/noise), but since the irritating and very noticeable fan noise is present immediately when the computer is powered up and running it's not because of that.
PS: thanks for mentioning the fan letter designations. I had missed that, but edited my post above to the correct names being NF-A8 FLX and NF-R8 REDUX-1800.
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Noctua replied with the minimum fan speeds:
NF-R8 REDUX-1800 = 4,4V / 670 RPM
NF-A8 FLX = 4,4V / 755 RPM
NF-A9 FLX = 4,4V / 435 RPM
NF-A12x25 FLX = 5V / 830 RPM
Red: confirmed NOT working in a Mac Pro
Green: confirmed working in a Mac Pro
So it appears that just like you said, KessMacPro, we can only guess if the NF-A8 FLX will work, with its minimum 755 RPM. Any other opinions on this before I decide between the two and order?
NF-R8 REDUX-1800 = 4,4V / 670 RPM
NF-A8 FLX = 4,4V / 755 RPM
NF-A9 FLX = 4,4V / 435 RPM
NF-A12x25 FLX = 5V / 830 RPM
Red: confirmed NOT working in a Mac Pro
Green: confirmed working in a Mac Pro
So it appears that just like you said, KessMacPro, we can only guess if the NF-A8 FLX will work, with its minimum 755 RPM. Any other opinions on this before I decide between the two and order?
Nice!
Indeed, some fans in the MP have a different min rpm (dictated by the SMC).
The 120mm fans (PSU,In and Ex) should run at min 600
The 90mm (PCI) min rpm : 800
The 80mm and 60 mm in the DUAL CPU min rpm :800 *
I've tested the 12X25FLX and in combination with the cMP SMC this fan runs stable at almost 1000 rpm and up.
This could be caused by the fact that the SMC increases voltage to get the target rpm, but if the fan doesnt respond fast enough,or already runs too fast, the result is a pulsing Voltage and a fan that stalls, ramps up and so on eternally.
So e.g. the 830 rpm for the 12x25 is at a stable voltage of ~5V
I tested this fan with a adjustable power supply and once it runs, you can lower the Voltage to almost 4V IIRC (and way under 1000rpm).
Long story short:
The NF-A8 FLX with min rpm at 755rpm (according to Noctua) might work , but I'm afraid the min rpm and/or the way the fan responds close to min voltage will probably not work in combination with the cMP SMC....
755rpm is very close to 800....
I've installed a NF-A9FLX as a PCI fan in one of my cMP , and this works perfectly , but looking at the specs it's clear:
claimed min rpm 435 and running in the MP at 800 min.
The NF-A 8 ULN will work, but the max rpm 1400 is too low in case of heavy CPU loads.
*= on auto in the dual they run at ~1100 rpm at idle.
It appears the NF-R8 REDUX-1800 is the safe way to go then.
My only concern is the lower fan speed (much lower than the original fan), but from what you're saying it's sufficient -even for high CPU loads, so I think I'll order one of those.
Concerning software, is it essential to rely on some sort of SMC controlling app (I went ahead and bought TG Pro a few weeks ago when it was half price -oh, it still is I see), or does it all work as before through the hardware sensors and MacOS? There's so much information in this thread that it's getting a little confusing
My only concern is the lower fan speed (much lower than the original fan), but from what you're saying it's sufficient -even for high CPU loads, so I think I'll order one of those.
Concerning software, is it essential to rely on some sort of SMC controlling app (I went ahead and bought TG Pro a few weeks ago when it was half price -oh, it still is I see), or does it all work as before through the hardware sensors and MacOS? There's so much information in this thread that it's getting a little confusing
It appears the NF-R8 REDUX-1800 is the safe way to go then.
My only concern is the lower fan speed (much lower than the original fan), but from what you're saying it's sufficient -even for high CPU loads, so I think I'll order one of those.
Concerning software, is it essential to rely on some sort of SMC controlling app (I went ahead and bought TG Pro a few weeks ago when it was half price -oh, it still is I see), or does it all work as before through the hardware sensors and MacOS? There's so much information in this thread that it's getting a little confusing
The redux 1800 is tested by me and others in this thread , so is a safe buy.
Obviously, the regular load and type of load (e.g. CPU/GPU/RAM) is individual , but if you did some tests on yours , you'll know the rpm of the fans ( set to auto).
Software is not a must, but can be nice to tweak the settings to your personal preferences.
The (tested) replacement fans will work fine without any 3rd party software too.
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Awesome!
I've been checking my "BOOSTA" fan speed for a few weeks now (with TG Pro) and it spins steadily at 856 RPM (TG Pro's "System" setting). Then again I've only been doing "normal" desktop stuff, email and web browsing. I can't remember it ever having gone much up even if I do more CPU intensive work like making music or editing videos or photos.
If I set TG Pro to "Manual" control of all fans, then the BOOSTA fan to minimum it only goes down to 820/821 RPM. Is this normal, or can the SMC on its own make it slow down even more?
I've been checking my "BOOSTA" fan speed for a few weeks now (with TG Pro) and it spins steadily at 856 RPM (TG Pro's "System" setting). Then again I've only been doing "normal" desktop stuff, email and web browsing. I can't remember it ever having gone much up even if I do more CPU intensive work like making music or editing videos or photos.
If I set TG Pro to "Manual" control of all fans, then the BOOSTA fan to minimum it only goes down to 820/821 RPM. Is this normal, or can the SMC on its own make it slow down even more?
Hi guys, just jumping in to this topic as my exhaust fan is rattling like crazy. I’ve been looking for a matching delta fan to replace this original delta 1212hhe fan. Has anyone tried a delta 1212he-f00? It closely matches the original specs, only a bit lower in max rpm, voltage range (4-12) is within spec so min rpm probably as well. Seems like a good candidate...
A bit off topic here, but I'm thinking about doing the opposite. Currently building a DIY PC setup that requires high airflow, and looks like the Delta AFB1212HHE from old Mac Pros are great fans for my need. (Tons of the AFB1212HHE on eBay for dirt cheap considering the fan's quality)
The Mac fan connector looks similar enough compared to standard PC fan, if I were to cut the 4th wire for Apple PWM control and use it as a 3-pin PC fan with tach, would it work?
The Mac fan connector looks similar enough compared to standard PC fan, if I were to cut the 4th wire for Apple PWM control and use it as a 3-pin PC fan with tach, would it work?
No.
I dont think your question is off topic, post #1 explains the way the Apple PWM 4-pin in the MP 4,1 /5,1 works.
What might work (depending on e.g. the voltage range of the MoBo and responsetime) is to connect the Delta fan this way:
pin 1- gnd
pin2- a constant +12V source e.g. Sata
pin3-tacho
pin4- Vc
EDIT: I assume the MoBo should be compatible with non-PWM 3-pin fans .
Haven't tested this though...
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I purchased two Mac Pro fans from eBay and will do some testing after I receive them, hopefully this week.
pin1 and pin3 is pretty clear, and for my use I intend to run the fan at full speed(I also have a PC manual knob style fan controller for 3 pin fans that I can do some testing on), the only question is if I can use the PC's 12V on pin2 to power the fan and leave pin4 empty, and have it operate like an older non-PWM fan like you said.
The standard Delta AFB1212 series can operate between 6-12.8v, therefore I believe if I run the 12v on pin2 without any VC it will work, but I won't be able to adjust it due to the lack of VC or PWM, but using a fan controller to manually adjust the 12v between 6-12 should allow control.
Once I get a chance to do some basic testing I will report back.
Hey folks, I've been following along this thread for a little while, since I've wanted to replace my noisy PSU and PCI fans with something more quiet. I'd just like to say thank you for all the hard work and testing you guys have done and thanks to @ChipSpencer for some pointers on pin swapping.
I can report that my PSU fan operates just fine (and so much more quietly now) with the 3-Pin Noctua NF A12x25 ULN. The fan itself was a bitch to replace thanks to those hard to reach rubber grommets. But after about 3-4 hours of blood and sweat, I was victorious!
Next up will be the PCI fan! Wish me luck ?
I can report that my PSU fan operates just fine (and so much more quietly now) with the 3-Pin Noctua NF A12x25 ULN. The fan itself was a bitch to replace thanks to those hard to reach rubber grommets. But after about 3-4 hours of blood and sweat, I was victorious!
Next up will be the PCI fan! Wish me luck ?
I received my Delta fans today, one 25mm thick and one 38mm thick.
I was able to get it to work on PC with a very simple trick, all you needed to do is to connect the 2nd and 4th wires together. Looks like Mac separated the 12v and VCC, but simply connecting the wires together would fix that.
Pulled the 4th pin wire out and just shove it into the 2nd pin slot, make sure it touches the 2nd pin/wire, and connected it to a PC fan connector, fan started blowing at full speed. Also tested with standard voltage based PC fan controller, fan speed is adjustable like any PC fans, but Tach/RPM data displayed was not stable(does not impact functionality tho)
Running some stability test right now, if everything good I will just clamp or solder the 2nd and 4th wire together and it should be good to go. Despite being used these grey Delta fans from Macs work very well and are some of the highest quality fans I have seen. (My other favorite is Nidec GentleTyphoon series)
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@Forrhouse
Quote: Yes, I was referring to the 120mm fan for the PSU / Intake and Exhaust CPU compartment. My intake and Exhaust fans are set based on the NorthBridge Diode temp of 57C to 66C and are running at 1225 to 1380 RPM. They are still relatively quiet and at these settings and speeds and the result are great stable temps. So, even though the Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX doesn't work under ~ 1000 rpm it sounds like it would be a great fit for my setup. Even doing light work puts them at a minimum of 1225RPM. In Northern California It will get to be 80F in the Summer inside the house. It will get to 90 to 100F (32C to 38C) in a Studio setting with lots of equipment on. Air conditioning is a must in the studio, but even with it on and a bunch of heat generated by equipment your still looking at a good 80 to 85F (27C to 29C). Outside we have days that average 110F (43C). If the Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX fans are quieter even by just a small amount and they will last a long, long time then they would be worth it. So it sounds like the Noctua NF-A12X25 ULN is what I should use for my Setup as a PSU fan and a pair of Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX fans is what I should use for the Intake and Exhaust CPU compartment.
About your concerns and questions :
- the most effective fans for NB T are : Intake and CPU A Boost.
Although it might seem strange, i leave Exhaust to auto , because it doesnt have any significant influence on Temps , test it , you'll see
Your setting is very safe , you could test the following : Intake 55 - 80 max rpm and Boost A 55-75 max rpm both sensor NB diode, Exhaust set to auto.
This way you'll lower noise (=rpm) quite a bit without sacrificing T too much.
- if installed a fan that doesnt run at default min, without logging in, it will not run, with all possible consequences.
You will have to set rpm min to 1000 , and afaik there's no software to set min rpm and sensor dependent.
Setting the fan to a constant rpm is risky too..
I tested an electrical workaround (selfmade adaptercable) with the OP , to feed the fan with a min Voltage independent of the SMC .
This works, but it might be more practical (and safer!) to look for a fan with a wider rpm range.
- I'm using my main MP for audio too, so i know the importance of low noise level.
After many, many years in a very hot country too, i understand your concerns about Temps.
The Noctua's are actually a lot more silent than the OEM Delta fans , so it is imo worth the investment (but there are other very silent , high quality fans too).
The OP @amedias started this thread , made a few very interesting observations but stated clearly that his goal was not to make a simple list of fans that work.
All credits go to him, i've noticed he hasnt logged in for ~ 1 year, which is a shame for several reasons , also because he mentioned some other brand fans he tested that run up to 2000rpm and at default min (600rpm) too.
You may find some other reports here though with other types/brands of fans running at min and higher than the ULN.
EDIT: An example of a very promising 120mm fan , that i havent tested : NB BlackSilent Pro 120mm PL-2 , 3-pin max rpm 1400.
Quote: Yes, I was referring to the 120mm fan for the PSU / Intake and Exhaust CPU compartment. My intake and Exhaust fans are set based on the NorthBridge Diode temp of 57C to 66C and are running at 1225 to 1380 RPM. They are still relatively quiet and at these settings and speeds and the result are great stable temps. So, even though the Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX doesn't work under ~ 1000 rpm it sounds like it would be a great fit for my setup. Even doing light work puts them at a minimum of 1225RPM. In Northern California It will get to be 80F in the Summer inside the house. It will get to 90 to 100F (32C to 38C) in a Studio setting with lots of equipment on. Air conditioning is a must in the studio, but even with it on and a bunch of heat generated by equipment your still looking at a good 80 to 85F (27C to 29C). Outside we have days that average 110F (43C). If the Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX fans are quieter even by just a small amount and they will last a long, long time then they would be worth it. So it sounds like the Noctua NF-A12X25 ULN is what I should use for my Setup as a PSU fan and a pair of Noctua NF-A 12X25 FLX fans is what I should use for the Intake and Exhaust CPU compartment.
About your concerns and questions :
- the most effective fans for NB T are : Intake and CPU A Boost.
Although it might seem strange, i leave Exhaust to auto , because it doesnt have any significant influence on Temps , test it , you'll see
Your setting is very safe , you could test the following : Intake 55 - 80 max rpm and Boost A 55-75 max rpm both sensor NB diode, Exhaust set to auto.
This way you'll lower noise (=rpm) quite a bit without sacrificing T too much.
- if installed a fan that doesnt run at default min, without logging in, it will not run, with all possible consequences.
You will have to set rpm min to 1000 , and afaik there's no software to set min rpm and sensor dependent.
Setting the fan to a constant rpm is risky too..
I tested an electrical workaround (selfmade adaptercable) with the OP , to feed the fan with a min Voltage independent of the SMC .
This works, but it might be more practical (and safer!) to look for a fan with a wider rpm range.
- I'm using my main MP for audio too, so i know the importance of low noise level.
After many, many years in a very hot country too, i understand your concerns about Temps.
The Noctua's are actually a lot more silent than the OEM Delta fans , so it is imo worth the investment (but there are other very silent , high quality fans too).
The OP @amedias started this thread , made a few very interesting observations but stated clearly that his goal was not to make a simple list of fans that work.
All credits go to him, i've noticed he hasnt logged in for ~ 1 year, which is a shame for several reasons , also because he mentioned some other brand fans he tested that run up to 2000rpm and at default min (600rpm) too.
You may find some other reports here though with other types/brands of fans running at min and higher than the ULN.
EDIT: An example of a very promising 120mm fan , that i havent tested : NB BlackSilent Pro 120mm PL-2 , 3-pin max rpm 1400.
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Hi new on the forum. Have read all your comments about the change from Delta fans to other brands.
Use a Mac Pro Single X5675 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 with XFX RX480 4GB GPU 64MB Ram OpenCore 0.6.7. Mojave Osx
Running Reason 11 Suite (music program) editing music, using a lot of plug-ins
Today I've changed my CPU fan to a Noctua 80 x 80 x 25mm NF-R8 redux-1800. It was easy when using your 6pin contact picture.
Intend to do like tar1na change PS, Intake, Exhaust, and Boost and have ordered the fans below.
1 x Noctua 92 x 92 x 25mm NF-B9 redux-1600
3 x Noctua 120 x 120 x 25mm NF-S12B redux-1200
Discovered that one of the plastic plugs holding the cooler for the Northbridge diod was missing. Probably had the plastic pin got dried out and snapped off. Before the cpu fan change, my cpu temp was about 60-70 degrees, and after it is around 45-50 with the same cpu load. The temp on the Northbridge diod was about 100-105 degrees and the Northbridge cooler about 30 degrees. After changed thermal compound and plastic plugs so the cooler sticks to the diod the temperatures on the Diod dropped to 55-60 degrees and the cooler raised to about 45 degrees.
Thanks, tar1na and all others for this thread. This give my Mac Pro new and silent life.
Use a Mac Pro Single X5675 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 with XFX RX480 4GB GPU 64MB Ram OpenCore 0.6.7. Mojave Osx
Running Reason 11 Suite (music program) editing music, using a lot of plug-ins
Today I've changed my CPU fan to a Noctua 80 x 80 x 25mm NF-R8 redux-1800. It was easy when using your 6pin contact picture.
Intend to do like tar1na change PS, Intake, Exhaust, and Boost and have ordered the fans below.
1 x Noctua 92 x 92 x 25mm NF-B9 redux-1600
3 x Noctua 120 x 120 x 25mm NF-S12B redux-1200
Discovered that one of the plastic plugs holding the cooler for the Northbridge diod was missing. Probably had the plastic pin got dried out and snapped off. Before the cpu fan change, my cpu temp was about 60-70 degrees, and after it is around 45-50 with the same cpu load. The temp on the Northbridge diod was about 100-105 degrees and the Northbridge cooler about 30 degrees. After changed thermal compound and plastic plugs so the cooler sticks to the diod the temperatures on the Diod dropped to 55-60 degrees and the cooler raised to about 45 degrees.
Thanks, tar1na and all others for this thread. This give my Mac Pro new and silent life.
@Saihtam68
great to read your comment. I plan to do the same.
How did you mount the fans? With the original rubbers or others?
great to read your comment. I plan to do the same.
How did you mount the fans? With the original rubbers or others?
Hi i used Noctuas rubber pins and trimmed them little using a knife. The old Mac rubbers where stiff and did break when i disassemble the delta fan.
I ordered now the same Fans, but with a small change. For the PSU I’ll use the NF-P12 redux-1300 because it’s pressure optimized and I think it’s a good choice especially for the nearly closed PSU
Can anyone confirm the only way to swap the PCI Fan out is to solder the cables together? I've tried a straight pin swap but couldn't get the Noctua pins into the Mac Pro's 6 pin fan connector, different sized pin fins maybe?
I'm reluctant to try soldering just 'cause I know I'mma mess it up
I have a replacement PCI Fan so maybe I will just give it a go and see how it goes. Just checking beforehand to see if anyone has managed to swap the PCI pins without soldering.
Can anyone confirm the only way to swap the PCI Fan out is to solder the cables together? I've tried a straight pin swap but couldn't get the Noctua pins into the Mac Pro's 6 pin fan connector, different sized pin fins maybe?
I'm reluctant to try soldering just 'cause I know I'mma mess it up
I have a replacement PCI Fan so maybe I will just give it a go and see how it goes. Just checking beforehand to see if anyone has managed to swap the PCI pins without soldering.
Yes, i would recommend to cut the original cables a few centimeters from the plug and solder them to the new cables , and seal them individually with e.g. heatshrink tubing.
The pins are not the same size as in the Noctua plug.
I’m trying to replace my PSU fan with only a continuity tester to work out the pins.
unfortunately on the backplane four pin connector three of the four pins make continuity with the earth pin on the IEC connector.
I’m pretty sure the pins from top to bottom of the connector are GND (indicated with the “<“ printed on the backplane), VCC, Sense/tacho, RPM control. But can some kind soul confirm for me?
unfortunately on the backplane four pin connector three of the four pins make continuity with the earth pin on the IEC connector.
I’m pretty sure the pins from top to bottom of the connector are GND (indicated with the “<“ printed on the backplane), VCC, Sense/tacho, RPM control. But can some kind soul confirm for me?