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MP 6,1 Mac Pro 6.1 Monterey - Crashes in Sleep
- Thread starter vddobrev
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12.3.1 (21E258): 429.60.3.0.0
So probably not.
And honestly, it lets me doubt the flawlessness of the 430 - Apple engineer please comment!
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So, it's been two days running my MP6,1 with V430 firmware. No crashes yet, and I'm no longer running my cron-Job that journals 'uptime' (and which appeared to be helping prevent more-frequent crashing while it was running once per hour).
That said, I'm not yet totally confident that this will have turned out to be the best move. I did get a prompt (while trying to force-stop a time-machine backup) and it was just a pure macOS prompt, saying "Your computer has detected a potential problem", which (after a brief googling) seems to be a potential identifier of some kind of Firmware issue... so maybe 430... isn't the golden goose, after all. I dismissed the prompt too quickly — I should have looked at the report / saved the output. But if it comes up again, I'll keep a closer eye on it.
Thankfully, this MP6,1 isn't a life/death business machine for me. It's the machine at the center of my life's passion, my music production, but worse comes to worse, I can find another way to get back to limping.
So YMMV with the aforementioned 430 via Beta work-around. I'll report back if anything else creeps up or goes wrong.
That said, I'm not yet totally confident that this will have turned out to be the best move. I did get a prompt (while trying to force-stop a time-machine backup) and it was just a pure macOS prompt, saying "Your computer has detected a potential problem", which (after a brief googling) seems to be a potential identifier of some kind of Firmware issue... so maybe 430... isn't the golden goose, after all. I dismissed the prompt too quickly — I should have looked at the report / saved the output. But if it comes up again, I'll keep a closer eye on it.
Thankfully, this MP6,1 isn't a life/death business machine for me. It's the machine at the center of my life's passion, my music production, but worse comes to worse, I can find another way to get back to limping.
So YMMV with the aforementioned 430 via Beta work-around. I'll report back if anything else creeps up or goes wrong.
Worse case is set your energy saver settings to the above thread recommendations and you should be ok as far as doing work etc. Just that Mac Pro 6,1 will not power off into sleep. All we can do then is to wait for Apple to come out with a fix, hopefully with v12.4.
I applied the latest v12.3.1 update (no firmware update with it) and will see how it goes...
Not that I‘m aware.
My comment was purely sarcastic, born out of frustration/desperation regarding Apple‘s inability to fix the problem.
Thanks!
I mean, these are multiple 1000$ pro machines.
Dropping support on older machines is one thing, but seeding a faulty firmware which renders the machine barely usable productively and not fixing it for months, that‘s just bold.
And soon, Apple will surely play the „sorry, it‘s not supported anymore, so no further updates“-card.
They should at least revert to the previous, perfectly fine, firmware.
You might want to add that many on forums have stated the issue and have been trusting Apple will come with a fix soon. This is why maybe there is not a lot of emails or contacting support, though hopefully everyone is submitting the generic crash report to Apple when it generically pops up after a crash.
Hope you get a response…
no crashes still. Did the beta5 trick on Tuesday and it’s been “stable” since.
Caveat when I say “stable”… I have gotten one prompt that suggested “Your computer has detected a potential problem” which means that some part of the MP6,1 isn’t happy with a result it got from something (and a google search indicates this is typically a firmware related prompt)… so it’s likely that this isn’t an ideal long-term fix.
Caveat when I say “stable”… I have gotten one prompt that suggested “Your computer has detected a potential problem” which means that some part of the MP6,1 isn’t happy with a result it got from something (and a google search indicates this is typically a firmware related prompt)… so it’s likely that this isn’t an ideal long-term fix.
Good news for those (few) who haven't updated yet but want to for security reasons:
Using the createinstallmedia method and installing OpenCore to the USB device to fake a higher SMBIOS version lets you update only the OS without firmware.
I don't see the point in switching to Monterey yet, therefore I installed the latest Big Sur 11.6.5 from some days ago which also has the 429 firmware since several versions.
Using the createinstallmedia method and installing OpenCore to the USB device to fake a higher SMBIOS version lets you update only the OS without firmware.
I don't see the point in switching to Monterey yet, therefore I installed the latest Big Sur 11.6.5 from some days ago which also has the 429 firmware since several versions.
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Rage should not influence us. Very few companies updates OS and firmware after so many years, so it is nonsense attack Apple which still update software and firmware. I'm quite optimistic about the firmware
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That kind of attitude encourages Apple to behave like that. So after I spent 8000€ on Mac Pro to have reliable machine for my professional work, probably I should be grateful even if my machine boot up properly??? I don't care about other companies, we are Apple loyal customers who pay premium price for reliability and they product obviously not "just works" anymore. I'm in the middle of very important project and having problems because of their firmware update, like many other people here and all what we got is "hope", really?
Totally agree...but really..what can we do? Switch to Microsoft? Not..so what options do we have? Linux...yeah sure. go to court..you kidding' me?....on an almost 10 year old product? It does not matter if they continued to sell it until 2019. That is almost now three years ago. Not much options really.
We have to rely on Apple to fix the issue. No other choice. Wait or make decisions when you are done waiting if nothing happens. Apple does not cater to the loyal (they will buy regardless), just those that they can make good profits for shareholders. Every "good" CEO knows this, and Tim does his job well.
Apple will not issue an update probably for a discontinued product out of their sequence of scheduled updates. So if a fix is coming, it will be in the next 12.4 release. If not, then people will have to determine what options they really have.
Shouldn‘t it be possible to simply downgrade the firmware by creating a USB installer with an older version like:
11.6.0 MP61 EFI Version: 428.140.7.0.0
and spoofing a.e. 427.000.0.0.0 with Open Core?
Upgrading the OS without firmware by spoofing a higher firmware seems to work just fine.
11.6.0 MP61 EFI Version: 428.140.7.0.0
and spoofing a.e. 427.000.0.0.0 with Open Core?
Upgrading the OS without firmware by spoofing a higher firmware seems to work just fine.
Firmware downgrades were never allowed with Apple EFI flashing tools and the workarounds that permitted it were totally closed after Thunderstrike exploits were discovered back in Yosemite days.
The efiflasher will read the SPI flash and check the version, OC spoofing is useless for that.
The only way to downgrade a late-2013 Mac Pro is flashing a previous saved dump with an external programmer and you need to completely teardown the Mac Pro to do it.
You are right, we don't have too many options, but still we can criticise Apple so maybe they come out with the solution.
We didn't even ask for firmware upgrade, they did it. People who upgraded to Monterey and preserved old firmware don't have a problem at all. So Apple is obligated to fix that problem or we might conclude it was done on purpose.
It seems really interesting why they silently upgraded firmware on an old machine just before Studio release.
Even I'm gonna buy Studio for sure, Mac Pro would be quite nice upgrade for my daughter. So if they don't fix firmware, should we just throw it away and say it is what it is.
Maybe I'm an idealist, but sometimes when people start putting pressure, they start to do something. Already happened with Apple, Canon etc.
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It's not one Mac, all Macs had firmware upgrades and usually the firmware upgrades are for all/or most at the same time, since it's the same code base that is upgraded.
Last week Apple sent firmware upgrades to all 2012 Macs that still have support with Catalina, like late-2012 Mac mini and mid-2012 MBP. Btw, all firmware upgrades now are silent and while the newest firmware upgrades are always for the current macOS release, Monterey, the firmware upgrades triggers down over time to the still supported BigSur/Catalina with SecurityUpdates.
The last Mac that you still had to actively install firmware upgrades was the MacPro5,1.
Ok but unfortunately that affected us very badly and it seems Apple doesn't care.
Maybe...(probably), but again all we can only wait for v12.4 to really know. But if there is a defect or something that cannot be fixed, we will probably also never know. Not much love for a discontinued product, especially if it is getting close to finishing Apple Care demands. Then, it is oh well..buy a Mac Studio. Apple is a business so this is not unexpected...
We just have to wait for the next update. If those who have Apple care can bring Mac Pro 2013 into an Apple Store and seriously talk to someone, maybe someone who has not been informed by Apple to not discuss the issue and/or instructed to get them to buy instead a Mac Studio may say something that Apple is aware and working on a fix, or not.
Apple doesn't really technically have to care anymore, it is only if they still care about their products more so over $. If so..then we may get a fix.
Throw out a bone for us who bought the Mac Pro 2013 Apple..most will probably eventually buy the Mac Studio or the newer Mac Pro (when it is released), just fix this for those who actually saw your vision and believed you and/or actually "like" Mac Pro 2013 and want to keep it around as their secondary system. Give us a fix in the next v.12.4 update!
Just had a somewhat productive Apple Support call, and wanted to report back about it:
1. It's been officially one whole week since I installed 12.3 Beta v5... I did it around this time of day last Tuesday, and since then I've experienced zero crashing during sleep. I didn't reboot the computer AT ALL during the last 7 days, and I experienced 7 overnight sleeps / plus multiple sleep sessions during the day (as I spent a large part of the time working from my work MacBook Pro instead of my MP6,1. So, it appears that FW430.100.23.00 (which comes from the 12.3 Beta v5 installation) has fairly completely gotten rid of my crash during sleep issue.
2. Back in in December, I had a few hours of support calls w/ Apple support, and they ran a "Capture Data" session with me, in which I downloaded their app / let it gather system data / then I uploaded that data back to them. At that time, they had engineers analyze the data and a week later (so, the last few days of December) they reported back to me that my PSU and my MLB were both failing. Obviously, I was worried, but simultaneously reluctant to believe that it was truly a sudden hardware failure (that happened to coincide with the install of Monterey / which happened to coincide with a whole bunch of other folks' Monterey & Sleep-crash issues).
3. Now that I was approaching a week of no crashes, I set up a call w/ Apple for this morning, and asked them to run a new "capture data" for me. The support rep was VERY helpful and VERY understanding, and suggested that she's taken more than a few calls about MP6,1 machines with crash-during-sleep issues in the last few months. I explained how I had been getting these crashes during sleep since testing out Monterey (and only since getting the 429.60.3.0.0 FW)... and that I had 1wk ago installed the Monterey Beta solely so that I could see if the Beta v5 FW # 430.100.23.0.0 would fix my issue... and that it seems to have fixed the issue.
4. She sent me a link to the "Capture Data.dmg" and I downloaded it / installed / gave it 'full disk access' permissions / ran the app / filled out the info / started the process... it ran for ~5min and crashed unexpectedly. We tried re-running their app 3 more times, and I even rebooted the MP6,1 to try it again after a fresh reboot (again, I'm doing all of this in Big Sur 11.6.2 because I don't run Monterey as a full-time OS) — So I was unable to provide them with data to analyze, but she even said: "Maybe when firmware is updated, we have to update our data-capture tools, and since 430.x isn't a fully released FW, maybe it can't be run at this time... but I'll still make sure to report back to engineering that 430 seems to have cleared up your issue / if there's any data that indicates that 429.x is problematic and that 430.x carries the solution, then I'd want engineering to know so that they can move things forward on that FW." — I agreed... I'm certainly interested in validating my suspicions "that my machine does not have a hardware issue, and it was FW all along." but mostly I want to help advance the process of developing and releasing a proper FW for this machine.
... So all that to say; I'm remaining hopeful that this will get addressed eventually with a future release of Monterey (and likely a future release of Big Sur too). And It feels like a "sit-back-n-wait" situation for most of the 429.x crew on this thread. If anyone else has the luxury of feeling comfortable testing out the macOS 12.3 Beta V5 release that was linked above (on the MR. Macintosh Website) I would be curious to see if there's a more unanimous report of folks seeing crashes go away after being thrust into FW 430.x. Again, it's beta — so YMMV / None of us know if this will inherently create/cause other issues (but I haven't run into any problematic behavior yet). I'm gonna try to hang back from making thread any longer than it already is unless I either: get more crashing during sleep / experience other problems with my MP6,1 / Hear back from Apple in some meaningful way / See a public release of 12.x that includes updated firmware.
Cheers all!
1. It's been officially one whole week since I installed 12.3 Beta v5... I did it around this time of day last Tuesday, and since then I've experienced zero crashing during sleep. I didn't reboot the computer AT ALL during the last 7 days, and I experienced 7 overnight sleeps / plus multiple sleep sessions during the day (as I spent a large part of the time working from my work MacBook Pro instead of my MP6,1. So, it appears that FW430.100.23.00 (which comes from the 12.3 Beta v5 installation) has fairly completely gotten rid of my crash during sleep issue.
2. Back in in December, I had a few hours of support calls w/ Apple support, and they ran a "Capture Data" session with me, in which I downloaded their app / let it gather system data / then I uploaded that data back to them. At that time, they had engineers analyze the data and a week later (so, the last few days of December) they reported back to me that my PSU and my MLB were both failing. Obviously, I was worried, but simultaneously reluctant to believe that it was truly a sudden hardware failure (that happened to coincide with the install of Monterey / which happened to coincide with a whole bunch of other folks' Monterey & Sleep-crash issues).
3. Now that I was approaching a week of no crashes, I set up a call w/ Apple for this morning, and asked them to run a new "capture data" for me. The support rep was VERY helpful and VERY understanding, and suggested that she's taken more than a few calls about MP6,1 machines with crash-during-sleep issues in the last few months. I explained how I had been getting these crashes during sleep since testing out Monterey (and only since getting the 429.60.3.0.0 FW)... and that I had 1wk ago installed the Monterey Beta solely so that I could see if the Beta v5 FW # 430.100.23.0.0 would fix my issue... and that it seems to have fixed the issue.
4. She sent me a link to the "Capture Data.dmg" and I downloaded it / installed / gave it 'full disk access' permissions / ran the app / filled out the info / started the process... it ran for ~5min and crashed unexpectedly. We tried re-running their app 3 more times, and I even rebooted the MP6,1 to try it again after a fresh reboot (again, I'm doing all of this in Big Sur 11.6.2 because I don't run Monterey as a full-time OS) — So I was unable to provide them with data to analyze, but she even said: "Maybe when firmware is updated, we have to update our data-capture tools, and since 430.x isn't a fully released FW, maybe it can't be run at this time... but I'll still make sure to report back to engineering that 430 seems to have cleared up your issue / if there's any data that indicates that 429.x is problematic and that 430.x carries the solution, then I'd want engineering to know so that they can move things forward on that FW." — I agreed... I'm certainly interested in validating my suspicions "that my machine does not have a hardware issue, and it was FW all along." but mostly I want to help advance the process of developing and releasing a proper FW for this machine.
... So all that to say; I'm remaining hopeful that this will get addressed eventually with a future release of Monterey (and likely a future release of Big Sur too). And It feels like a "sit-back-n-wait" situation for most of the 429.x crew on this thread. If anyone else has the luxury of feeling comfortable testing out the macOS 12.3 Beta V5 release that was linked above (on the MR. Macintosh Website) I would be curious to see if there's a more unanimous report of folks seeing crashes go away after being thrust into FW 430.x. Again, it's beta — so YMMV / None of us know if this will inherently create/cause other issues (but I haven't run into any problematic behavior yet). I'm gonna try to hang back from making thread any longer than it already is unless I either: get more crashing during sleep / experience other problems with my MP6,1 / Hear back from Apple in some meaningful way / See a public release of 12.x that includes updated firmware.
Cheers all!
It still hasn't crashed for me with 430 firmware. But for those who haven't updated, it's extremely likely there will be future MP6,1 firmware updates...