If it's all the same to you, seeing as it's an open forum, I'm happy to point out the deficiencies in repeating the same endless whining. I believe that isn't against the rules either.
[doublepost=1468343751][/doublepost]
This
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Mac Pro Rising
- Thread starter No One
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
[doublepost=1468343751][/doublepost]
This
There is plenty of technical discussion about the Mac Pro Tower because there is more we can do with it. I've learned how to edit ROMs here and at netkas, and how to tap into my PSU to directly power video cards, and I've been through a few iterations of external expansion (Firewire 800, SAS, USB 3.0, USB 3.1).
If you want to get technical then the tower is the way to go. If you want a dumbed down computer that just plugs in overpriced peripherals and is disposed in the trash when it's old then get a Tube.
Haha, you have proven me right. Despite the fact that you don't see this...
Technical discussion without emotional baggage and personal preferences. What you did is you dumbed down computer based only on your preferences. Nothing else.
Maybe it is that you do not see, or don't want to see possibilities for Mac Pro?
I will ask you a question. Will you be able to put 14-15 GPUs inside Tower Mac Pro? No. Will you be able to connect 30 GPUs in a rack to trash can Mac Pro? Yes.
Where you will benefit more?
Sure with new announcements. Not so with this very thread, which the original poster brought no new insights...nothing we have not seen or talked about on other threads. But just the same usual rants talked about elsewhere.
I felt the same way. Those little details seem Apple like. I'm holding out hope as long as I can.
The thing is - I'm willing to compromise on a lot of other areas to get away from Windows. If Apple meets me halfway I'd find it hard to resist even paying a premium to get away from Win 10.
It's a fine OS - but decades of mac use are hard to undo. A windows machine clearly does what I need it to on paper... but the OS is a death by a thousand paper cuts. An annoyance is always hanging at the edge, like a hair stuck in a film projector.
[doublepost=1468344614][/doublepost]
I'm not sure what I can do to help you. I'm going to keep posting in threads that interest me and I'm trying my best to keep it positive. Damn, these forums try hard to chase people off.
Whatever happened about not pushing personal preferences that you talked about ad nauseum? Not everyone buys a workstation to hack on.
Apple doesn't need you to defend itself... As I said, if you don't like what other people are posting on an open and free discussion forum, then you are free to either ignore the user or the threads. Anything else is you trying to restrict the freedom of other in expressing their opinions.
[doublepost=1468345628][/doublepost]
Some do, some don't. Why are you trying to restrict the right of those that do want to "hack"? Why trying to censore half of the discussion?
Apple apologists? This is a forum for discussing Apple products.
You create a conflation where none exists. I do not approve of everything apple does just because I'm tired of the moaning about the nmp.
It's not possible that I could have a legitimate opposition to your views on the nmp, I must just be some mindless Apple loving sheep?
When you crudely mischaracterise those who disagree with you as being deluded or misguided you lose any right to colour your discourse as "debate" or "technical discussion" it's really just slinging mud.
I understand you're upset about the switch to the nmp. And after three years of festering it seems you're upset and a touch emotional about it, but not everyone who likes the nmp is some sort of brainwashed Apple shill, and claiming they are just makes you look a little bit "tinfoil hat"
Some people are just tired of the broken record.
(Protip: on an apple forum you may find people who actually like Some of apples products)
Jack, I don't think there's intent to push anyone away.
But if you follow the numerous threads on the matter for the last couple of years, I started a couple myself to see them shut down by the usual Apple hating crowd, you will understand that some of us like to discuss what could potentially come up new and the technical challenges or options made by Apple.
Like I said before, to me the nMP is great and the way to go, an not just by Apple. I'm pretty sure all the others will follow suit not long from now, we've even seen several case replicas even from those that mocked nMP.
But since Apple is a trendsetter, and usually a successful one, everybody tends to ride on the bandwagon, even if started off ridiculing the design or concept. I guess this is more than clear that it has been like this for some time, but other opinions are welcome.
Apple suffers from instant success it seems, while others struggle to make a point or copy.
Take this as my own personal opinion, not imposing anything though.
But if you follow the numerous threads on the matter for the last couple of years, I started a couple myself to see them shut down by the usual Apple hating crowd, you will understand that some of us like to discuss what could potentially come up new and the technical challenges or options made by Apple.
Like I said before, to me the nMP is great and the way to go, an not just by Apple. I'm pretty sure all the others will follow suit not long from now, we've even seen several case replicas even from those that mocked nMP.
But since Apple is a trendsetter, and usually a successful one, everybody tends to ride on the bandwagon, even if started off ridiculing the design or concept. I guess this is more than clear that it has been like this for some time, but other opinions are welcome.
Apple suffers from instant success it seems, while others struggle to make a point or copy.
Take this as my own personal opinion, not imposing anything though.
I am also free to tell people that all they do is complain, and that their complaining is not constructive. And for sure that Apple will not want to listen to their complains.
Yeah, but we've heard you the first fifty time you've said it and we also told you that we are free to say what we want as long as it's in accordance with the rule. If I were you I would make good use of the ignore function and move on.
This apologist label is something I don't still understand. Do they need apologists?
I for one find their products not only well thought out and well designed, but also in line with the needs of the most - of course not everyone will be served, it's not their way.
And I must agree that who wants to put down the nMP and only cares for the cMP shouldn't at least make some types of comments. I'm saying this cause I started some threads exactly to discuss the future version and they got closed due to the aggressive behavior of some posters. It's very annoying to see your thread closed because of others that have no interest or desire to talk nMP in an orderly fashion. If the cMP is their thing and not the nMP, there are surely a lot of threads out there about the cMP where it's virtues can be highlighted. And don't get me wrong, the cMP was amazing at the time, I loved it from the start, and still do. But I find the nMP great too and love everything about it. Maybe it's the age kicking in, no more fiddling inside cases, tweaking high and low. Who knows?
Small, quiet and well designed appeals to me more now.. Your mileage varies of course.
[doublepost=1468346753][/doublepost]Can we keep it civil guys? In no time this will be closed too.
And we will have to open a new one. Not good.
I for one find their products not only well thought out and well designed, but also in line with the needs of the most - of course not everyone will be served, it's not their way.
And I must agree that who wants to put down the nMP and only cares for the cMP shouldn't at least make some types of comments. I'm saying this cause I started some threads exactly to discuss the future version and they got closed due to the aggressive behavior of some posters. It's very annoying to see your thread closed because of others that have no interest or desire to talk nMP in an orderly fashion. If the cMP is their thing and not the nMP, there are surely a lot of threads out there about the cMP where it's virtues can be highlighted. And don't get me wrong, the cMP was amazing at the time, I loved it from the start, and still do. But I find the nMP great too and love everything about it. Maybe it's the age kicking in, no more fiddling inside cases, tweaking high and low. Who knows?
Small, quiet and well designed appeals to me more now.. Your mileage varies of course.
[doublepost=1468346753][/doublepost]Can we keep it civil guys? In no time this will be closed too.
And we will have to open a new one. Not good.
For some bizarre reason you assume that if Apple had kept the Mac Pro tower it would be the same exact hardware it was in 2012. At once you defend Apple and implicitly whine about their lack of hardware updates!
If the Mac Pro were a revised tower design then you could upgrade the internal x16 GPUs to the latest high end silicon while simultaneously running several Thunderbolt PCIe chassis. The tower provides more versatility, though I doubt many Mac Pro users would bother with PCIe chassis if they had internal slots. Rather than fuss with an overpriced octopus of external PCIe enclosures most would just build a cheap render farm for even more power and less fuss.
As for upgrading obsolete internal GPUs with an external TB PCIe enclosure? I'm sorry, that is just so dumb it makes the brain hurt.
You know what IMO Apple can do with Mac Pro?
Give it enough features, not exactly enough horsepower, so it can be further upgraded externally. 10 GB Ethernet, Fiji GPUs for highest internal compute power, that fits Metal feature set, Thunderbolt 3, and possibility to connect multiple computers, and external compute units into one computational cluster.
Thats how they can improve their platform, if they want to stick to closed ecosystem of hardware and software.
Leaving out internal expansion of the computer allows the design to be efficient. And all inefficiency is left onto external expansion. You get right now?
And BTW. AMD is already saying that you will connect 40-50 GPUs to single computer with external expansion. And it is not 3-5 years. The most further timeline for this at this moment is 2 years from now.
Give it enough features, not exactly enough horsepower, so it can be further upgraded externally. 10 GB Ethernet, Fiji GPUs for highest internal compute power, that fits Metal feature set, Thunderbolt 3, and possibility to connect multiple computers, and external compute units into one computational cluster.
Thats how they can improve their platform, if they want to stick to closed ecosystem of hardware and software.
I do not question internal expandability. I question "faults" from your perspective in the design of computer. Faults from one point of view are becoming possibilities from another.
Leaving out internal expansion of the computer allows the design to be efficient. And all inefficiency is left onto external expansion. You get right now?
And BTW. AMD is already saying that you will connect 40-50 GPUs to single computer with external expansion. And it is not 3-5 years. The most further timeline for this at this moment is 2 years from now.
Well, I'm fairly new here. I haven't followed Mac Pro threads for years. They may not intend to push anyone away, but that's the effect it has on me. Perhaps my energy would be spent elsewhere on a another platform. It's certainly better spent on another forum. This went from fun to tiresome pretty quickly.
If AMD stop bleeding money long enough to stay in business for the next two year...
AMD is only an example for this. Multiple GPU stacks are the way to go if you do not want to pay 40K$ as a consumer for 600mm2 GPU with Titan Branding or Fury.
One of reasons why Nvidia raised prices, are increased costs of silicon wafers.
You may have confused me with someone else, because I didn't talk about pushing personal preferences ad nauseum.
As for those who don't buy workstations to hack on, Apple already offers plenty of products for them. The point is that a different poster whined about a lack of technical discussion yet the most technical discussions surround the cMP. It's a fun system to tinker with because overall it's such a beautiful design.
I doubt that, every opinion counts as long as it doesn't derail into thread closing just because people keep at it and get to the point where it's no more fun but pure aggression.
Wow, you really don't get it, do you? One can have internal PCIe slots and external Thunderbolt expansion in the same workstation tower! It's more efficient and versatile for everyone.
Efficient, because you don't have to add a power brick, PCIe enclosure, and TB cable if all you need are a few PCIe cards. You don't have to power two internal GPUs if all you need is one. And you don't have to replace burnt up GPUs because a tower is easier to cool efficiently.
Versatile, because if someone wants to add 50 GPUs, then they can plug it in over TB and then complain about Apple's failure to support such external GCGPU arrays.
Versatile, because for those who fear to gaze upon bare circuitry and heatsinks, they need never crack open the tower. Just plug into the Thunderbolt ports and be happy. Everyone can be happy, no scolding necessary. You'll never need to lecture anyone about the secret genius of Apple's Tube ever again!
And where do you think I question internal expansion? You do not see that I am not doing it?Wow, you really don't get it, do you? One can have internal PCIe slots and external Thunderbolt expansion in the same workstation tower! It's more efficient and versatile for everyone.
Efficient, because you don't have to add a power brick, PCIe enclosure, and TB cable if all you need are a few PCIe cards. You don't have to power two internal GPUs if all you need is one. And you don't have to replace burnt up GPUs because a tower is easier to cool efficiently.
Versatile, because if someone wants to add 50 GPUs, then they can plug it in over TB and then complain about Apple's failure to support such external GCGPU arrays.
P.S. I give up...
Then why all the sound and fury?
With No One's tower, you get to have your Thunderbolt octopus and eat it too!
You say I don't understand the Tube, that I should be happy with its Thunderbolt expansion.
Fine, I'm happy with it. Satisfied? Let's move on to discuss No One's rumormongering!
To expand on my last On Topic post, while I find much of it believable, I find it suspcious that he hints at internal HDD bays. In my estimation, the one thing Apple got right about the Tube was to move mass storage onto an external swappable enclosure.
1. It's easier to share mass TB storage between multiple computers.
2. External TB HDD enclosures aren't likely to grow obsolete for some time. Thus, it makes financial sense to invest in a good enclosure and use it through multiple generations of workstations/laptops.
My only nitpick is that Apple should have shifted the savings onto the user. Apple saves the cost of internal bays and PSU capacity needed to power them. So customers should get those savings so they can put them towards an external enclosure. Otherwise why not leave internal bays for those who prefer them?
That was my initial expectation about the Tube, that the reason Apple stripped out internal expansion was to reach a sub $2K price. When I saw they had actually jacked the price for less, well that really pulled my chain.
Thus if No One's rumor proves to be true, I expect Apple to dramatically lower the price since they've added more back!