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macOS 13 Ventura on Unsupported Macs Thread
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from the keynote, it doesnt seem like a lot has changed.
also, ive read this on the github site of open core legacy patcher :
,, With regards to the introduction to Metal 3, this has little effect on us. Metal 3 is just an API feature set, and is actually limited to newer GPUs only ''.
macOS Ventura and OpenCore Legacy Patcher Support · Issue #998 · dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher
This page will be updated as we learn more about Ventura and the changes within. If you're not an active developer for legacy Macs, DO NOT INSTALL VENTURA. Even if you're bored, more random users i...
github.com
Was referring to your claim „I thought that there are no problems with porting metal capable gpu drivers to ventura. I dont know though.“from the keynote, it doesnt seem like a lot has changed.
also, ive read this on the github site of open core legacy patcher :
,, With regards to the introduction to Metal 3, this has little effect on us. Metal 3 is just an API feature set, and is actually limited to newer GPUs only ''.
macOS Ventura and OpenCore Legacy Patcher Support · Issue #998 · dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher
This page will be updated as we learn more about Ventura and the changes within. If you're not an active developer for legacy Macs, DO NOT INSTALL VENTURA. Even if you're bored, more random users i...
Was just confirming that you do not know.
Or maybe Apple dropped support for pre Kaby Lake Macs?
I don't know why you find Apple dropping macs surprising. They did the EXACT same thing when awicthing to Intel. Last time it was a even quicker transition than this time.
Your 12" MacBook 2017 is a kaby lake Mac and is much weaker in performance than a 2016 MBP which uses the Sky Lake architecture. So your Mac is less capable and yet Apple supported it. This indicates Apple is going drop Macs architecture wise.
Some hands-on hints for you experimenters out there:
* it seems that installing Ventura beta on top of i.e. Monterey causes a little less trouble than a fresh clean install (perhaps due to skipping some user account init issues and correlating popup screens)
* if you end up with an almost unusable system (menu bar partly invisible, no dock, system settings not opening, no background wallpaper / black background, etc.) you have most likely injected the wrong set of Mx Rosetta intel lib. (Ventura beta 1 and beta 2 differ slightly in that regard also)
* should your system CPU load be excessive (even after re-indexing spotlight finished), see if the process com.apple.geod (location services) hogs up processing time at high levels. If so, kill it. On several machines (C2D) this helped to bring idle CPU usage back to a few percent.
* On Mac Pro (3,1-5,1): If you run into USB not usable for keyboard, mouse etc. there are two workarounds: Either use a USB 3.x card and attach the peripherals there or use a USB 2 hub to hook up the stuff there.
Keep tinkering ;-)
* it seems that installing Ventura beta on top of i.e. Monterey causes a little less trouble than a fresh clean install (perhaps due to skipping some user account init issues and correlating popup screens)
* if you end up with an almost unusable system (menu bar partly invisible, no dock, system settings not opening, no background wallpaper / black background, etc.) you have most likely injected the wrong set of Mx Rosetta intel lib. (Ventura beta 1 and beta 2 differ slightly in that regard also)
* should your system CPU load be excessive (even after re-indexing spotlight finished), see if the process com.apple.geod (location services) hogs up processing time at high levels. If so, kill it. On several machines (C2D) this helped to bring idle CPU usage back to a few percent.
* On Mac Pro (3,1-5,1): If you run into USB not usable for keyboard, mouse etc. there are two workarounds: Either use a USB 3.x card and attach the peripherals there or use a USB 2 hub to hook up the stuff there.
Keep tinkering ;-)
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Of course, there isn’t a technical reason. It certainly isn’t now with the Intel architecture reaching EOL. It is pure econonics. Apple is turning the page by dropping Intel support ASAP. Expect 2017 and 2018 to be gone next year under the same progression. Mac Pro (2019) will be thankful for one more year if Apple doesn’t further accelerate. A great run but this particular party is coming to a close.
Yeah if that’s the case it may be time to to upgrade to a Mac with Apple silicon. Too bad no boot camp though.
They won't be by the end of 2022. Who the hell would actually buy one now?
I´m looking for a second hand one since two years ago. But they are still so expensive.
UTM or Parallels Desktop with Windows for ARM (plus M$ x86 emulation) does such a good job that Bootcamp can be easily left in the past.
I think bootcamp will come back as soon as the deal between Microsoft and Qualcomm expires. Bootcamp is a big deal especially for those softwares that run on windows only. Apple might push Rosetta to windows as it doesn't have anything special for x64 emulation (like Linus and others speculated) and it can run on any Hardware not just apple silicon as hector martain discovered.
Rosetta is now available on Linux but for that you to break apple's end user license 🪪 agreement.
Actually not greedy. Its simply older hardware which is like over 10 or 8 years old not worth to support anymore. Also considering the exploits those older cpus have. Put ur self in Apples shoes. Would u take the time and effort to make sure that ur new technologies are working with such old hardware? As a Software Developer i would say its to much effort and time. those old generations simply dont support the new instructions which are needed for efficient and Secure Computing
Catalina worked on 2012 Macs and big sur support was also great worked on late 2013 macs considering basic features like live captions, globe view on Apple maps, voice isolation, background blur etc all are limited to apple silicon based macs it makes no sense to drop hardware this quickly also there was barely any difference in sky lake and KabyLake it would have been ok if they dropped support for 2015 Macs but Macs such as 2017 MacBook Air which they recently stopped selling or 2016 MacBook pros those were more than enough to run Ventura considering most of the features are limited to 2018 macs or later and most of them are limited to apple silicon based macs.
Apple is still selling 256GB macs and they are gonna become pretty much useless after few years and universal apps(x86+arm) do take-up a lot more space then previous single binary apps apple just want to make more money and there is no justification for that even if some people say that "oho it doesn't have new technology" Intel support for macOS is pretty much left for 3 years or Max to max 4 years.
imagine 2019 macpro just getting 6 years of support which costs about 80,000$ atleast in india
"Greatly worked" doesn't equal "securely worked", in my opinion. It's necessary condition but not sufficient one.
Talking about security
All Intel CPUs have suffered from extremely sensitive vulnerabilities as I said skylake and kabylake were the same and they share same bugs in chip architecture. So why not support 2016 MacBook pros.
There are 20,000 Bugs in x86 chips from intel they didn't drop all Intel macs from the lineup.
Apple's T2 chip can easily be hacked even I can do it. Including that 80,000 $ macpro
A11 chip had a severe vulnerability in secure enclave that could allow anyone inject the malicious code in the operating system which still exists and quite popular among jailbreakers.
If a chip has some security bug it doesn't mean they should just throw it in the dustbin.
Especially for a company who cares about environment and took the following stupid steps to save the environment -
Removing charger from the box
Removing dongle from the box
Removing headphones from the box
Shrinking box size
Or selling 256 GB storage on a 1570$ machine(M2 MacBook Air)
People are aware of their device getting old and if they have budget they will probably upgrade it.
Forcing someone to buy the new product is what apple has done since forever
In my imagination, "forcing" is a situation when your machine stops to work suddenly. Situation when it stops to update OS version, needs some other word to describe.
Being a apple developer i know how hard it actually is to support older version of iOS apple constantly changes app store policies forcing Devs not to support older version of OS.
For ex if you are developing on XCode 13 it won't work on macOS big Sur same is gonna happen with XCode 14. even apple's own apps don't work on older version macOS after a certain period of time when the new OS is released.
And apple requires all new apps to be built with newest SDK here they are technically forcing me to buy a new Mac my current Mac can't do it anymore while apple could allow XCode 14 to run on Monterey but nope. Fun fact XCode 14 beta runs on Monterey and final product won't.
If you had macOS high Sierra as last supported OS on your mac and you purchased apple music subscription the app won't receive any feature or UI update you must purchase a new Mac if you want the latest features same is not true with Spotify or other steaming service.
After 2 years of support to each OS apple no longer ships the OS updates that's not a bad thing 2 years is still a lot but it's all about forcing people to upgrade.
People don't upgrade their computers as much as they do it with phones.
After that apple silicon this was expected but it's even worse
Well, commercial use of Apple Macs differs from personal one. And it seems quite reasonable to me. What about Apple Music features - if it's important enough to have it, may be it could be some call to buy a new Mac. But not for me.
And xcode?
Third party apps ?
Like Twitter is forced to require iOS 14 and big Sur or later.
YouTube
It's not that they didn't want to support those devices they did it's just that they were forced
you are ranting at apple for not supporting 10 years old hardware or 6 year old hardware. what people don't understand that from one generation to another one there can be significant changes to the CPU Instructions etc as seen with AVX2. it would be a-lot of time and effort for apple to implement a variant for a AVX2 function to work ok on AVX1
AVX-2 are the only instructions that Ventura requires and are available on haswell or later in hackintosh community people are using Haswell, and skylake CPUs and it works really well on desktop they didn't do any patching heck they don't even realise their cpu isn't supported
Is this thread “macOS Ventura on unsupported macs” thread???
For a couple of minutes while reading, I felt like it was the “let’s-complain-and-argue-that-we’re-not-getting-what-we-want-from-Apple” thread! The grievance conversation is off topic and would be better posted somewhere else.
For a couple of minutes while reading, I felt like it was the “let’s-complain-and-argue-that-we’re-not-getting-what-we-want-from-Apple” thread! The grievance conversation is off topic and would be better posted somewhere else.
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