macOS 13 Ventura on Unsupported Macs Thread

[dandeco]

Let's hope a patch will allow the 15" MacBookPro9,1 to run Ventura without much hassle, in the same way I've been able to run Monterey on it! My 2012 15" quad-core i7 MacBook Pro has pretty much become my secondary computer, and not just for the Mac OS, but how I can also run Windows 10 via a Boot Camp partition!

 

[OnawaAfrica]

I've tried to upgrade my MacBook Pro 13,3 with OCLP-- just hitting a wall with Recovery Mode, even after resetting NVRAM. Any suggestions?

I wouldn't try only doing an upgrade on unsupported systems. Best is to make a separate boot partition and install a Beta from Scratch to properly test and patch things

 

[BrooklynMan]

I wouldn't try only doing an upgrade on unsupported systems. Best is to make a separate boot partition and install a Beta from Scratch to properly test and patch things

I'd still be having this same boot issue, which I need to resolve

 

[Sevenfeet]

@redheeler 9 years would not work for many cases. Take for example the MacPro5,1. It runs circles around many computers that are just 3-5 years old yet still when equipped with a pair of Xeon X5690s and a newer GPU. OCLP allows us to still keep several of these massive investments (at their purchase) still in operation - and rightly so. Apple really should not have abandoned such machines. Consider systems that are purchased now with a maxed out Pro being over $50k USD. If an org has a fleet of these then they have strong grounds for a serious lawsuit against Apple if Apple stops Intel instruction set support even within the next 5-10 years.

Yes, we shouldn't have to rely on third party patching to get us to that point. It is simply absurd to have to travel this road.

While I have some sympathy for this argument since I'm still typing on an elderly Mac Pro 3,1 running Monterey, I have no illusions on it's fate. My M1 Pro MacBook Pro that I use for work (supplied by my employer) kicks the crap out of it from every way to Sunday. OpenCore has extended the life of this machine to a ridiculous 14 years but this solution is only for hackers....my mother's 2015 4K iMac won't get Ventura and I'm not going to even try with OpenCore for that since I don't need the potential tech support headaches.

Microsoft for years has had to deal with supporting zillions of processor chips, support chip families, and every other feature. It's very hard to do that and keep stability and I imagine the compatibility teams at Microsoft are huge compared to Apple. It is a little eye opening on the machines being left behind this time but not entirely surprising. There has always been a rule of thumb regarding the Mac that goes like this:

Mac Pro - Up to 8 years of software updates from GA and 5-6 years from last sold

All ofter Macs - Up to 6 years of software updates from GA and 5 years from last sold

The trash can Mac 2013 (9 years old) was sold up until 2019 but I can't imagine that Apple sold that many in the last few years...all of the people who wanted a trash can Mac probably had one already. I would think that most of the professionals that purchase these machines via companies have either upgraded to the 2017 iMac Pro, the 2019 Mac Pro or other Apple Silicon models. Smaller content creators may complain but I can't imagine that many people bought this machine new in recent years and a cheap M1 Mac Mini runs rings around that machine.

Machines like the 2015 iMacs (last sold in 2017) fall into the previous conventional wisdom. Same thing with the 2015 MacBook Airs (last sold in 2017). The MacBook (2016) was last sold in 2017. The 2014 Mac Mini was last sold in 2018 so that's a sharp cut (but not completely surprising).

So will my Mac Pro 3,1 run Ventura? Maybe but I'm not betting on it. We're getting pretty separated from Nvidia macs so I have no illusions that these older Metal cards will continue to work since we're moving to Metal 3 now. For a personal machine, I have my eye on a Mac Studio...I just can't afford to do one right now.

What is a little surprising is that abandonment of Apple Watch Series 3 from Watch OS 9 since it's still being sold, but that device is probably the last 32 bit processor that Apple has been supporting and I imagine there has been some poor soul in Apple who has been responsible for supporting that one last fork of the main Apple macOS/iOS/tvOS/WatchOS code base for 32 bit compatibility. I'm sure that Craig F. wanted to kill that code base with extreme prejudice. And the last iPod Touch just discontinued won't get iOS 16....usually iPod Touches would at least enjoy another year or two of support (but not as long as iPhones), but alas, no longer.

As far as the argument that Apple would be facing ligitation over these decisions, this is a company who faces frivilous lawsuits daily. Just because that I described has been the "rule of thumb" doesn't mean that Apple has ever put this in writing as a promise or duty. If you're spending $50K on a production Mac, it's expected that the machine is depreciated on most balance sheets in 3 years anyway, 5 years max...you better have made your money during that time of its life....any other further life out of is is gravy.

 

[binarysmurf]

No issues with performance, but some sleep/wake weirdness as I mentioned in a different comment. Someone suggested to update OpenCore which I may try. But don’t get me wrong, overall it works pretty well!

I would honestly recommend running the latest OCLP Patcher and even the Post install patches. I've no issues at all with my system. It may as well be officially supported.

 

[MisterAndrew]

The trash can Mac 2013 (9 years old) was sold up until 2019 but I can't imagine that Apple sold that many in the last few years...all of the people who wanted a trash can Mac probably had one already. I would think that most of the professionals that purchase these machines via companies have either upgraded to the 2017 iMac Pro, the 2019 Mac Pro or other Apple Silicon models. Smaller content creators may complain but I can't imagine that many people bought this machine new in recent years and a cheap M1 Mac Mini runs rings around that machine.

Nope. M1 Mac mini does not run rings around the 6,1 Mac Pro. The FirePro GPUs are far better, especially the D700s. And 64GB of RAM is much better for lots of demanding apps (or even 128GB if you need that). Apple sold lots of 6,1s in the last few years of the run. One cloud company in particular purchased boatloads of them. There were some 6,1s manufactured in 2019 and even 2020.

 

[BrooklynMan]

I would honestly recommend running the latest OCLP Patcher and even the Post install patches. I've no issues at all with my system. It may as well be officially supported.

I can't get the installer to boot-- it keeps ending up in recovery mode. I've reset my PRAM to no avail. do you have any advice?

 

[ylluminate]

I believe New York and Colorado may have set up a precedent that will surprise you now going forward @Sevenfeet.

 

[Cognizant.]

Oh yea everytime some like 5 year old hardware gets dropped u cry planned obsolescence LOL. If u cry about it why don't u go to Microsoft for Windows or Linux Devices This thread is to Brainstorm ideas about how to make it run on unsupported hardware and not about listening to your crying about "Planned Obsolesce". Apple is supporting thair Products way longer than any other Manufacturer does. So maybe cry about other manufacturers "Planned Obsolesce".

I'm not crying about anything. I'm stating the current state of Apple's business model. It is planned obsolescence. Your condescending post doesn't change their business model. The reason this is significant is because unlike other manufacturers, Apple makes the hardware and the software and has a far smaller selection of products that they need to main and update ... and this is for a company worth trillions of dollars. It is not like they don't have the resources to support their handful of devices for a longer period of time. It is absurd that they cut off devices like this. And yes, the reason is to push upgrading to newer devices. If this offends your sensibilities, it doesn't change that fact.

As for support, this rings true for their phones. They certainly support their phones longer than other manufacturers, but that's because the iPhone makes up the bulk of their revenue stream.

I'm not sure what angle you're coming from with the negative vibes, but it's entirely unnecessary. My post was mainly to illustrate that patched versions of macOS on older hardware run just fine. I've never had issues with it. I've run new versions of macOS on unsupported hardware for years after they stopped getting updates (which means there is no reason for them to cut off support, because they still run fine on the latest OS). I've also built my share of Hackintoshes for the fun of it.

So basically ... chill out, dude.

 

[redheeler]

While I have some sympathy for this argument since I'm still typing on an elderly Mac Pro 3,1 running Monterey, I have no illusions on it's fate. My M1 Pro MacBook Pro that I use for work (supplied by my employer) kicks the crap out of it from every way to Sunday. OpenCore has extended the life of this machine to a ridiculous 14 years but this solution is only for hackers....my mother's 2015 4K iMac won't get Ventura and I'm not going to even try with OpenCore for that since I don't need the potential tech support headaches.

Microsoft for years has had to deal with supporting zillions of processor chips, support chip families, and every other feature. It's very hard to do that and keep stability and I imagine the compatibility teams at Microsoft are huge compared to Apple. It is a little eye opening on the machines being left behind this time but not entirely surprising. There has always been a rule of thumb regarding the Mac that goes like this:

Mac Pro - Up to 8 years of software updates from GA and 5-6 years from last sold

All ofter Macs - Up to 6 years of software updates from GA and 5 years from last sold

The trash can Mac 2013 (9 years old) was sold up until 2019 but I can't imagine that Apple sold that many in the last few years...all of the people who wanted a trash can Mac probably had one already. I would think that most of the professionals that purchase these machines via companies have either upgraded to the 2017 iMac Pro, the 2019 Mac Pro or other Apple Silicon models. Smaller content creators may complain but I can't imagine that many people bought this machine new in recent years and a cheap M1 Mac Mini runs rings around that machine.

Machines like the 2015 iMacs (last sold in 2017) fall into the previous conventional wisdom. Same thing with the 2015 MacBook Airs (last sold in 2017). The MacBook (2016) was last sold in 2017. The 2014 Mac Mini was last sold in 2018 so that's a sharp cut (but not completely surprising).

So will my Mac Pro 3,1 run Ventura? Maybe but I'm not betting on it. We're getting pretty separated from Nvidia macs so I have no illusions that these older Metal cards will continue to work since we're moving to Metal 3 now. For a personal machine, I have my eye on a Mac Studio...I just can't afford to do one right now.

What is a little surprising is that abandonment of Apple Watch Series 3 from Watch OS 9 since it's still being sold, but that device is probably the last 32 bit processor that Apple has been supporting and I imagine there has been some poor soul in Apple who has been responsible for supporting that one last fork of the main Apple macOS/iOS/tvOS/WatchOS code base for 32 bit compatibility. I'm sure that Craig F. wanted to kill that code base with extreme prejudice. And the last iPod Touch just discontinued won't get iOS 16....usually iPod Touches would at least enjoy another year or two of support (but not as long as iPhones), but alas, no longer.

As far as the argument that Apple would be facing ligitation over these decisions, this is a company who faces frivilous lawsuits daily. Just because that I described has been the "rule of thumb" doesn't mean that Apple has ever put this in writing as a promise or duty. If you're spending $50K on a production Mac, it's expected that the machine is depreciated on most balance sheets in 3 years anyway, 5 years max...you better have made your money during that time of its life....any other further life out of is is gravy.

A 3,1 is definitely passed its prime now. In 2008 it would've been unthinkable for a 14-year-old computer to be usable at all for modern tasks, so the fact that it is, is very impressive.

Unfortunately we're talking about a lot of Macs that are quite a bit newer and faster than your 3,1 already outside of the 5-6 year period. On my desk sits a 5K iMac with a display comparable to the one in Apple's brand new Studio Display, I was surprised that the specs barely changed at all except for True Tone and 100 nits more brightness. It also has 4x the memory of the base M1 Mac mini and a fast 512 GB NVMe SSD. The CPU performance is nearly double that of your 3,1, and the GPU isn't anything special by today's standards but is more than good enough to run the MacOS UI and any apps I need without issue. Why drop support for it?

 

[roysterdoyster]

While it is great that some fellow thread participants are courageous enough to try out macOS 13 with OCLP on their legacy macs, why not wait with all the chitterchatter, until khronokernel, who was invited to the WWDC, will state directly or indirectly /via woking on OCLP for macOS 13, if and for which macs patching is may be will be possible?

 

[TimmuJapan]

While it is great that some fellow thread participants are courageous enough to try out macOS 13 with OCLP on their legacy macs, why not wait with all the chitterchatter, until khronokernel, who was invited to the WWDC, will state directly or indirectly /via woking on OCLP for macOS 13, if and for which macs patching is may be will be possible?

FINALLY!

DITTO!

After 5 pages on this thread of blah blah blah, the verdict is: it don’t work right now.😵‍💫
Let’s wait for the Khronokernel or another OCLP developer for some real guidance. Without any patience, this thread is just going to be pages and pages more of blah blah blah.

 

[exoticSpice]

There were some 6,1s manufactured in 2019 and even 2020.

Honestly it's entirely the users fault if they brought a 2013 Mac Pro in 2019/2020

 

[MisterAndrew]

Assuming we get it to work, what's everyone's take on installing Ventura on an unsupported Mac that is still covered by AppleCare+? Could Apple void the plan? I couldn't find anything specific in the Terms and Conditions besides this:

"Apple will not provide Technical Support in the following circumstances:

(a) For use or modification to the Covered Equipment, the macOS, or Consumer Software in a manner for which the Covered Equipment or software is not intended to be used or modified;"

Legal - AppleCare+ for Mac - Apple

 

[Cognizant.]

Honestly it's entirely the users fault if they brought a 2013 Mac Pro in 2019/2020

Yeah I told my buddy not to buy a 2015 MacBook Pro for his son because it was likely to lose support this year. And sure enough, it did. I just had a feeling.

 

[MacRumors3590]

I'm gonna give macOS 13 a try on my cMP tonight... I report back
p.s. using the latest OCLP 0.4.6n

 

[amaze1499]

I've tried to upgrade my MacBook Pro 13,3 with OCLP-- just hitting a wall with Recovery Mode, even after resetting NVRAM. Any suggestions?

Same here. 1st attempt installation Ventura onto 12.4 using software update resulted in: Reboot into Internet Recovery.

 

[amaze1499]

/

 

[OnawaAfrica]

I'd still be having this same boot issue, which I need to resolve

yes just tested it when I try to boot to installer via OCLP it crashes instant and sends it right to Internet Recovery. Might have something todo with the new Crypto files on the Installer usb?????

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Yeah I told my buddy not to buy a 2015 MacBook Pro for his son because it was likely to lose support this year. And sure enough, it did. I just had a feeling.

well its not fully unsupported apple pushes security and Safari for Monterey for alt least 3-4 more years

 

[OnawaAfrica]

I'd still be having this same boot issue, which I need to resolve

well pls wait to test it till there are some patches available

 

[the8thark]

When Apple stops Intel support, that’ll be a sad day in the history of the Mac.

Why? Apple has EoL'd many different hardware and software architectures in the past.
How is Intel being EoL'd different any of the others being EoL'd?

Hardware

• 68K
• PPC
• Intel (soon)

Software

• 16 bit
• 32 bit
• Classic MacOS

 

[Heindijs]

Why? Apple has EoL'd many different hardware and software architectures in the past.
How is Intel being EoL'd different any of the others being EoL'd?

Hardware

• 68K
• PPC
• Intel (soon)

Software

• 16 bit
• 32 bit
• Classic MacOS

Who said those weren‘t sad days? I know many people were very sad once PPC became unsupported and the same was true for Classic Mac OS

 

[tharostatos]

As you can see... today (not yesterday) MBP 2016 are available for Ventura

But, if you try, it tells you that is not possible

 

[frou]

As you can see... today (not yesterday) MBP 2016 are available for Ventura

I do not see that change on either the US or UK sites.