[Merged] Blackberry Storm - RIM's New Touchscreen Blackberry

[aristobrat]

I think the real competition here is between AT&T and Verizon, not a couple of phones that will be inconsequential in a year. In that regard, there is no comparison. Verizon's network is lightening fast and AT&T's is 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound sack.

I'm not sure if that's absolutely true. 50% of the customers who switched networks to get the AT&T iPhone 3G left Verizon to do so.
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_iPhone_3G_Prompts_Users_to_Switch_to_ATT_25944.html

The majority of people out there either have an iphone or a BB.

FWIW, if you add the BlackBerry + iPhone marketshares, you only account for 20% of people out there.

57% - Symbian phones
17% - Blackberry (RIM)
12% - Windows Mobile
07% - Linux
03% - iPhone
02% - Palm
01% - Misc

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=754112

 

[aristobrat]

As of now, RIM still outsells Apple in the USA.

Although with the iPhone 3G's launch factored in, Apple actually outsold RIM from June-August. Be interesting to see if the Storm launch has people lined up, and how iPhone sales continue in the months post-launch!

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210700311

 

[Jblack4083]

As of now, RIM still outsells Apple in the USA.

Of course. They have more models and also are cheaper. It makes sense.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I'm not convinced, but I guess time will tell. The click-through touch screen sounds weird. The idea of having to physically push down the screen for the "touch" to register sounds awkward. Of course, this is just an assumption since I obviously haven't played with the device yet. I'm also not convinced that the Storm will integrate with everything as smoothly as the iPhone does. Managing your music, your pictures, your videos, the countless apps...it's going to be real hard to beat Apple on this one.

Just as some proclaimed the Zune to be an iPod killer...I don't put much faith in the Storm knocking the iPhone off its pedestal.

Agreed. It seems interesting, but it remains to be seen if it will hurt iPhone sales. I found this interesting:

Rather than provide haptic feedback (or none at all), RIM has developed something completely new called ClickThrough, a suspension system that lies beneath the display, so that when you go to select an application or enter text, you actually push the screen down like you would any other tactile button.

Admittedly, it felt a little weird when we first tried it. Given that with all other touchscreen devices, it's just a matter of lightly tapping on an icon or some similar action, it wasn't our first inclination to physically push down on the screen. Colleagues who tried it had a similar reaction; while cool, the idea behind it took some explaining to fully realise the capabilities. Now, that's not to say we don't like ClickThrough; it just takes a little acclimation. Plus it was responsive and we were pleasantly surprised at how easy and accurate it was to compose messages and notes.

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39030106,49299246,00.htm

 

[seedster2]

I think the OP was a little outspoken. I can say after using the storm for 15 minutes that it will do really well. There were still software bugs that needed to be addressed but it was rock solid with a beautiful screen.

Verizon was losing a lot of customers to ATT and this device will certainly help to the limit the exodus.

For all those that think only business users carry BBs you all need to take a trip to NYC. BB are ubiquitous here and judging from looks, many of the users are the young hipster types that Apple targets.

Businesses will adopt the Storm easily. Few people want to pay for their own iphone when their boss offers them a storm. Also, the unique touchscreen input will comfort those unwilling to abandon devices without physical feedback

Ultimately, they will coexist and steal sales from one another but mostly from the other touchscreen phones.

 

[redman042]

Another thing to note a lot of BB user don't like touch screen phones, so I really don't see them trading in their Curve's and Bold's for the Storm

Agreed. My brother in law lives by his Blackberry (8800 model currently), and he types on it faster than I type on a computer keyboard. He has been wanting an iPhone for a while, and maybe the Storm will catch his eye now that it's official. But no matter how good the virtual keyboard is on either one, I just can't see him duplicating that typing speed on anything other than a real keyboard. It will just piss him off. He will probably go with a Bold.

BTW, I just read some of todays hands-on reviews of the Storm. The clickable screen is apparently better than we all thought. But the jury is still out on how fast you can type on such a screen. I'm already pretty fast on my iPhone, so I'm happy. I'd be even happier if Apple let lose landscaping typing for all apps, but that's another story.

 

[redman042]

When I hear click touchscreen I think pressure-sensitive. Coming from a pressure-sensitive touchscreen I'll be damned if it even comes close to the iPhone's. The touchscreen is the iPhone's single greatest feature. Without it, all other things that make it great would be only average.

I thought the same, but it turns out we are both wrong (sort of). Read Engadget and Gizmodo today. They have hands-on reviews. The screen is a hard surface and is capacitive, like the iPhone. But the entire screen moves down and clicks when you press on it, and Engadget says it offers "just the right amount of resistance". So it actually sounds pretty darn good. To type however, you have to do one press at a time. So there is a learning curve, and neither blog had enough time with it to see how fast they could learn to type. Also, the jury is still out on how durable that kind of screen is and whether there are any crevices around the edges to catch dust and bits of dirt.

Still, I'm thinking more and more that the Storm is a great choice for a Verizon customer not wanting to switch. But I'm happy I did and am happy with the iPhone.

 

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

I don't get all the people who bash AT&T and praise verizon. I had the latter for years, and only switched for the iPhone. In my experience, one is really no better than the other (DC and Boston areas, as well as trips to more remote places). AT&T is fine, just like verizon was. No real complaints either way, but neither is amazing in terms of dropped calls, signal strength, etc. I guess some people think it's a big deal, but I don't think that should be the deciding factor for anyone (unless one just doesn't cover your area, if course).

The storm is intriguing, mostly because my employer won't support iPhones. But even if I went with the storm I'd carry an iPod anyway, so no real gain.

Where I think the storm will fail is software and integration. The bb UI is nowhere near as nice or intuitive as the iPhone UI, and the sync with your computer (exchange aside -I'm talking multimedia etc.) is not nearly as seemless.

Bb has a lot of fans, and I'm sure this will do well. But as someone else said, I think that both apple and bb will take more people from 3rd parties than they will from each other.

 

[kdarling]

Although with the iPhone 3G's launch factored in, Apple actually outsold RIM from June-August. Be interesting to see if the Storm launch has people lined up, and how iPhone sales continue in the months post-launch!

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210700311

No, Apple did not outsell RIM.

That article lists the iPhone first only because it breaks out sales by device.

If you look at the other documents from that same company (see here), RIM is still above Apple overall. They can't help that Apple only has one model at a time.

The storm is intriguing, mostly because my employer won't support iPhones. But even if I went with the storm I'd carry an iPod anyway, so no real gain.

OTOH, my employers are already thinking of porting our normal RIM apps to the Storm.

Where I think the storm will fail is software and integration. The bb UI is nowhere near as nice or intuitive as the iPhone UI, and the sync with your computer (exchange aside -I'm talking multimedia etc.) is not nearly as seemless.

There are literally millions of Java programmers. I think it'll do okay, as long as RIM can attract them to that unit.

I just finished downloading the Storm simulator from RIM. Their site is getting hammered by devs getting the latest SDK.

They don't have to keep quiet about it. And they can sell to whomever they want. They can create apps for their own or corporate usage without any Orwellian limitations or oversight.

 

[Rybold]

The blackberry Storm is just another Samsung Instinct! -the fischer price version of the iPhone.

There have been numerous attempts to reproduce the iPhone ... instinct, voyager, htc, and so on ... NONE are anywhere near as good as the iPhone.

AND LEST ANYONE FORGET .... THE IPHONE WAS DESIGNED BY A COMPUTER COMPANY! THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT LITERALLY DESIGN COMPUTERS! -think about why that would be an advantage.

 

[aristobrat]

Be interesting to see a document that shows iPhone 3G sales vs combined RIM device sales since the iPhone 3G launch.

The document you provided seems to show numbers for Jan-Jul, but I don't know how to extrapolate that to consider the effects of Apple stopping the sale of original Phones in May (when they ran out of stock) and of the document only including 20 days of iPhone 3G sales.

There are literally millions of Java programmers. I think it'll do okay, as long as RIM can attract them to that unit.

The App Store for the Storm is a great way to do that. I'm so glad RIM included one! Having used BBs for the last several year, I hated that reading forum posts on BB sites is about the only way to discover new 3rd party RIM apps.

 

[Rybold]

.
"The Storm is not an iPhone killer, nor is it intended to be."

-Business Week magazine

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...han=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology

 

[kdarling]

We've all said many times....

There's no such thing as an "anything killer", whether it be for the iPhone, Blackberries, or whatever. There's plenty of market for everyone.

Devices are more often killed by their own company's lack of developers, support, foresight, innovation, advertising, prices... whatever.

As a side issue, it's amusing that many people first worry that their choice won't be popular... then they worry that it'll be too popular. They're just sand and plastic objects, folks.

 

[Rybold]

.
"The Storm's browser is ... Nice—but it's still no match for the iPhone's browsing finesse."

-Business Week magazine

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...han=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology

 

[kdarling]

.
"The Storm's browser is ... Nice—but it's still no match for the iPhone's browsing finesse."
-Business Week magazine

Why pick out the worst parts? How about:

"My initial reaction was that typing was easier and more accurate than on the iPhone—or any other touchscreen keyboard. "

and

"...unlike the iPhone, it does let you edit by cutting and pasting—and you can use a two-finger stretch to select text"

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...han=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology

Enough with the bold giant text, anyway

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

actually its not the curve has quite a large consumer following, nice try leave the real analysis to the people who actually study it 白痴

No name calling, man. Especially in other languages. That's rude (for the record, I can read what you typed).

 

[jmpage2]

Competition is good for everyone. BB has fantastic brand recognition and is already in the good graces of corporations, government and military users.

These are the same types of users that Apple has begun trying to target with their new Enterprise features for the iPhone.

Without a doubt the BB Storm is going to force Apple to introduce a 3rd gen iPhone next year that addresses some of the many shortcomings. I can assure you that no BB is going to run dry on battery after just a few hours. Everyone who has tried the Storm has said that the pressure sensing screen with tactile feedback is incredible and is exactly what the iPhone needs.

Expect to see an iPhone with video recording, pressure sensitive touchscreen and other Storm features sometime in the next 12 months or so.

The two areas that I don't see Apple budging on are A2DP support (why would they do this when they can keep over charging for accessories?) and removable/expandable memory and battery.

 

[gnasher729]

The OP is going a little overboard here. I will throw him a bone and agree that the Storm, at least on paper, probably represents the biggest iPhone challenger yet, and it will sway some buyers away from the iPhone. But will it be the huge interruption to the iPhone's sales that is portrayed here? I seriously doubt it.

If you look at it from RIMMs point of view: At the beginning of 2007, life looked easy, no serious competition in their market. Today, they release an iPhone challenger? What do you mean, an iPhone challenger? 18 months ago, there was nobody to challenge RIMM and now they are just a challenger? "Sway some buyers away from the iPhone"? I don't think RIMM is very happy right now.

 

[P-Worm]

Looks pretty good. Any word on the included storage space?

P-Worm

 

[theshadow07039]

OK first of all I am not a troll, I was an early adopter of the iphone have had a mac for 5 years and now swear by them and have used an ipod since 2nd Gen, and around 15% of my itunes library are through the itunes store but I'm not a fanboy. I hate the fact that after 2.0 I can't surf the internet and listen to music at the same time because my iphone will freeze up and the music will start skipping like a broken record. I don't like the fact there is no voice dialing so its dangerous driving. I love the fact the earphones have a built in microphone.
But the difference between me and the people on this board blasting me for looking at reality either don't want to admit it or know the truth already and just are in denial/ The iphone is in the midlife of its product cycle, it is a cash cow because its once was one of a kind, its not anymore. Innovation is great but if we look at technology in general companies like Philips have based their entire company on "reacting" to innovation and have done quite well for themselves.
Being the first doesn't make you the best by default, being the best is creating the greatest user experience and satisfaction. Jobs better call a meeting about the path of the iphone because unlike the ipod and the mp3 market, cell phones are by far a more faster pace, evolving market. Ideally Apple in summer of '09 should produce a new generation of iphone with more features, part of the reason why I feel turn by turn isn't on the iphone is that ATT wants iphone to use ATT gps while Apple doesn't want that to happen. Multitouch is apple's greatest tool and it should milk it for all its worth.

 

[gadgetdad]

Checking out the pics of the storm, its definitely does not have the iPhone sexy.

 

[aristobrat]

The iphone is in the midlife of its product cycle, it is a cash cow because its once was one of a kind, its not anymore.

What? The iPhone has been out for barely over one year. How the heck do you consider that mid-life, especially when compared to Windows Mobile, Palm and BlackBerry devices that have been out for 5+ years?! Seriously, if that's you really consider the reality to be (iPhone being mid-life), that's why you're getting blasted. Has nothing to do with fanboys. Just you thinking that your odd views of the iPhone are reality for everyone else.

Being the first doesn't make you the best by default, being the best is creating the greatest user experience and satisfaction.

And survey after survey show the iPhone being rated the highest in owner experience and satisfaction...

Jobs better call a meeting about the path of the iphone because unlike the ipod and the mp3 market, cell phones are by far a more faster pace, evolving market.

Exactly how fast are you talking about? Most of us are on a 24-month contract that won't allow us to easily upgrade every year. Yearly updates -- just like they've been doing with iPods for the last five years -- is probably frequent enough for just about everybody.

Why are you worried about the path Apple picks for its products? What other MP3 manufacturer had the insight to see the market for MP3 players was switching to converged phones. Does Creative had a MP3 player+phone out? SanDisk? I'm not saying Apple is always right with the paths it picks for the products it makes and the markets it chooses to compete in, but its track record over the last few years has been pretty spot on.

Ideally Apple in summer of '09 should produce a new generation of iphone with more features.

Why would you even say that? That's Apple's current upgrade cycle. Do you have any doubt that there won't be an iPhone 3.0 in summer of '09 with even more features (just like there was a new iPhone with even more features in summer of '08)?

 

[Rat-Boy]

.
"The Storm's browser is ... Nice—but it's still no match for the iPhone's browsing finesse."

-Business Week magazine

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...han=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_technology

No WIFI either.

But how can it sync with iTunes? I mean, can they legally even do that?

 

[aristobrat]

But how can it sync with iTunes? I mean, can they legally even do that?

RIM has it's own little media sync program...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/features/media/mediasync.jsp

My guess is that it reads your iTunes library XML file to figure out what your playlists and stuff are, or calls some iTunes API to do so. Be interesting to see if Apple changes it to knock 'em out?!

Won't play any iTunes Store purchase with DRM, though.

 

[BongoBanger]

What? The iPhone has been out for barely over one year. How the heck do you consider that mid-life, especially when compared to Windows Mobile, Palm and BlackBerry devices that have been out for 5+ years?!

Actually he has a point. OSX Mobile is new, the iPhone is mid-life because it's a device not an OS. The pace of change in the mobile phonemarket is brutal.