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MintPPC project

z970mp said:
I'm currently waiting for 6.6 to drop before committing, but it would replace Linux, at least as far as PowerPC goes. That means Web browsing, music playback, document handling, photo viewing, etc. Standard desktop jobs.
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I haven't seen any evidence so far that it'd be anything more than a 2nd/3rd machine tinkering toy - which for me is also where Linux on PPC/MorphOS/OS9 reside. I still get work done on OSX, something that on the other mentioned OSes is either impossible or massively compromised.
 
z970mp said:
What's its clockspeed, and how's the performance? How does it compare to something like an i3?

The P!!! / P4s really are the total equivalents to the G4s / G5s, yet it was the last time computers were actually DIFFERENT... Now every last one of them has either Core or Ryzen CPUs...
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Stock clock speed is 2.08 GHz.
Core series processors are so many times faster than something like a Pentium 3, or Athlon, that it’s hard to gauge, really. It feels snappy running lightweight GNU stuff, and web browsing is fast enough with good 3D acceleration from the 6600GT.. An i3 would obliterate it, though.
 
z970mp said:
It's not a tinkering toy for me, or a lot of other people. Different people do different work, which can have various meanings itself. I don't need to convince you to use Linux, OpenBSD, or anything else besides what you're comfortable with. That's a personal decision everyone must make for themselves, especially since the only things at stake are their own productivity and QOL.
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I don't understand. That's a massively defensive response as if I've asked something intensely private and personal.
I'd have thought anyone using an alternative OS for a particular reason would be excited to share it's merits.
 
z970mp said:
Good. Use what you're best in.

It's not a tinkering toy for me, or a lot of other people. Different people do different work, which can have various meanings itself. I don't need to convince you to use Linux, OpenBSD, or anything else besides what you're comfortable with. That's a personal decision everyone must make for themselves, especially since the only things at stake are their own productivity and QOL. :)
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I think he was referring to GNU/Linux on PPC, as opposed to on x86 where it actually works.
 
z970mp said:
What am I supposed to do with that? I didn't make these environments, I'm not a representative, and I can't produce solutions to individual issues on a dime. It really isn't my job to convince people to use a certain operating system, especially if they have a disadvantage in doing so to begin with.

If you've tried them all, what's the point of listing any merits when nothing is able to get done regardless? If your work is impossible or comprimised on anything besides OS X, then that (presumably) takes first priority. The way I see it, everything else is really up to the user to decide what to do, not somebody else.
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I've never used OpenBSD and perhaps won't unless there's a reason to do so on a secondary machine.
The kind of answer I'd be looking for would be for example, it's got a fast updated web browser or it's port of MPlayer is better than OSX/Linux or even the OS is much faster and uses less resources thus has better battery life on a portable.
Any of those wouldn't and couldn't stop me using OSX as my main OS but at least they get me interested.

As for "it isn't your job to convince people..." - no, neither is it mine being an OSX advocate but even so, on various forums and groups I always jump at the chance to tell people what great uses PPC Macs still have, particularly the audio capabilities of OSX - especially if they ask - like I have you in regard of OpenBSD.
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MrPilot said:
thanks to all answering me. I chose this one to quote, because it's very funny xD
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I'd always advise everyone to try it at least once and draw your own conclusions.
 
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Dronecatcher said:
The kind of answer I'd be looking for would be for example, it's got a fast updated web browser or it's port of MPlayer is better than OSX/Linux or even the OS is much faster and uses less resources thus has better battery life on a portable.
Any of those wouldn't and couldn't stop me using OSX as my main OS but at least they get me interested.
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I admittedly don't have the kind of personal experience with OpenBSD that I do with Linux, so I have my reasons for not jumping to promotion.

But the best I have so far is that:

- It has three out-of-box updated web browsers. All of them work fine, no repair required.

- Installation is very easy.

- The file system is simpler.

- It is much closer to pure UNIX (and OS X) than Linux is.

- Aside from Debian Sid, which is a rolling release, the coming 6.6 update will designate OpenBSD as newer than our current Debian-based Linux options, the newest of which is Debian 10, dated July 2019.

- It is supposed to be faster thanks to the project handling of code, which ensures there is as little code as possible, and that every bit of it is heavily vetted for security vulnerabilities.

- Due to the smaller amount of both code and out-of-box packages, it would presumably consume less resources as well.

- It seems to have better out-of-box compatibility with PowerPC hardware than your typical Debian-based Linux system.

- Plus, it has excellent documentation, so the need for questions is rare.

Evidently, the case for using it shows more at the system level rather than the application level, the importance of which depends on the individual pursuing it.

Would that be something closer to what you were looking for?
 
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z970mp said:
Would that be something closer to what you were looking for?
Click to expand...

Well, it's as much as I've heard before, which is what places it in the "tinkering" category - not that there's anything wrong with tinkering but I'm not a coder, so I wouldn't be able to develop on such an OS or use it in an IT administrator capacity.

I suspect it would be a good platform to attempt a console only Mac - I've often been tempted to try that to see what apps can be utilised at that level as a means to be fast, up to date and efficient.
 
saxfun said:
my fault, connection with the airport cards works OOB!!!!! Great.
My cursor is behaving like any other ppc32 debian install, very complicated for choosing little thing in the menues. is there any help on this?
here is the error form the apt-get update:
W: Das Laden der konfigurierten Datei »main/source/Sources« wird übersprungen, da das Depot »http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports sid InRelease« die Datei scheinbar nicht bereitstellt. (Schreibfehler bei der Angabe der Komponente in sources.list?)


thanks, joeren!
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The error is related to debian-ports. Nothing I can do about and you can disregard this error, it's not important.
 
I am now finally able to boot into ppc64 Debian sid on my iMac G5. I only cannot get into a graphical mode. It has an nvidia card and if I look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log it says:
(EE) modeset(0): Failed to initialize glamor at ScreenInit() time
Fatal server error
(EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0

Update: with nouveau.noaccel=1 at the boot prompt I get a working system at last.
 
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Jeroen Diederen said:
I am now finally able to boot into ppc64 Debian sid on my iMac G5. I only cannot get into a graphical mode. It has an nvidia card and if I look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log it says:
(EE) modeset(0): Failed to initialize glamor at ScreenInit() time
Fatal server error
(EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0
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nomodeset might work, but you won’t have 2D or 3D acceleration. We need a custom kernel for 64 bit with UMS enabled.
 
AMD works out of the box.

I need a better browser, Firefox ESR is killing my machine :)

I've also got weird colors in it, like red is missing or something. Rest of the system doesn't show this.
 

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MoerBoer said:
AMD works out of the box.

I need a better browser, Firefox ESR is killing my machine :)

I've also got weird colors in it, like red is missing or something. Rest of the system doesn't show this.
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What machine are you using?
 
iMac G5 2.1Ghz iSight ( 2005 )
2.5GB Ram
Radeon X600 with 256mb ram ( I think )

emile@mintppc:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : PPC970FX, altivec supported
clock : 2100.000000MHz
revision : 3.1 (pvr 003c 0301)

timebase : 33333333
platform : PowerMac
model : PowerMac12,1
machine : PowerMac12,1
motherboard : PowerMac12,1 MacRISC4 Power Macintosh
detected as : 337 (iMac G5 (iSight))
pmac flags : 00000000
L2 cache : 512K unified
pmac-generation : NewWorld
 
MoerBoer said:
AMD works out of the box.

I need a better browser, Firefox ESR is killing my machine :)

I've also got weird colors in it, like red is missing or something. Rest of the system doesn't show this.
Click to expand...
you will have to wait until I have arctic fox available.
 
Jeroen Diederen said:
where can I find that kernel or should we build one ourselves ?
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There is a thread about it here. The kernel that OP built is 32 bit, but it should be possible to replicate his guide, to build one for 64 bit. I tried yesterday, but failed. I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough to do it myself 😔

By enabling UMS in the kernel, the ability to apply “nomodeset” will at least enable 2D acceleration on Nouveau, and Radeon. Without it,graphics on 64 bit appear to be borked.
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MoerBoer said:
iMac G5 2.1Ghz iSight ( 2005 )
2.5GB Ram
Radeon X600 with 256mb ram ( I think )

emile@mintppc:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
cpu : PPC970FX, altivec supported
clock : 2100.000000MHz
revision : 3.1 (pvr 003c 0301)

timebase : 33333333
platform : PowerMac
model : PowerMac12,1
machine : PowerMac12,1
motherboard : PowerMac12,1 MacRISC4 Power Macintosh
detected as : 337 (iMac G5 (iSight))
pmac flags : 00000000
L2 cache : 512K unified
pmac-generation : NewWorld
Click to expand...
Does the x600 operate on AGP bus or PCIE?
 
To be clear, I believe graphics problems appear to be exclusive to AGP based graphics cards. I believe only a select few later model PowerPC devices ever used PCIE for graphics.
 
Jeroen Diederen said:
you will have to wait until I have arctic fox available.
Click to expand...

Like this? :)

It's *MUCH* faster. But as @sparty411 said, I don't think 2d acceleration is enabled.
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sparty411 said:
There is a thread about it here. The kernel that OP built is 32 bit, but it should be possible to replicate his guide, to build one for 64 bit. I tried yesterday, but failed. I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough to do it myself 😔

By enabling UMS in the kernel, the ability to apply “nomodeset” will at least enable 2D acceleration on Nouveau, and Radeon. Without it,graphics on 64 bit appear to be borked.
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Does the x600 operate on AGP bus or PCIE?
Click to expand...

X600 uses PCIE on this particular iMac
 

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Well done MoerBoer !

I got 2D acceleration working. It is actually much simpler than most people come up with. Just install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau. Restart and boom, a working DE.
 
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Jeroen Diederen said:
Well done MoerBoer !

I got 2D acceleration working. It is actually much simpler than most people come up with. Just install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau. Restart and boom, a working DE.
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That’s interesting. xserver-xorg-video-nouveau should’ve been installed when you installed LXDE.
 
Awesome, I downloaded the 64-bit version from here if you are interested : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2412333

Just as a side note, this is my main MacPro 5.1 on which I do development:

Code: 
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmds+.        emile@emile-MacPro
MMm----::-://////////////oymNMd+`     ------------------
MMd      /++                -sNMd:    OS: Linux Mint 19.2 Tina x86_64
MMNso/`  dMM    `.::-. .-::.` .hMN:   Host: MacPro5,1 0.0
ddddMMh  dMM   :hNMNMNhNMNMNh: `NMm   Kernel: 4.15.0-64-generic
    NMm  dMM  .NMN/-+MMM+-/NMN` dMM   Uptime: 13 days, 6 hours, 8 mins
    NMm  dMM  -MMm  `MMM   dMM. dMM   Packages: 2280
    NMm  dMM  -MMm  `MMM   dMM. dMM   Shell: bash 4.4.20
    NMm  dMM  .mmd  `mmm   yMM. dMM   Resolution: 1920x1080, 1920x1080
    NMm  dMM`  ..`   ...   ydm. dMM   DE: Cinnamon 4.2.4
    hMM- +MMd/-------...-:sdds  dMM   WM: Mutter (Muffin)
    -NMm- :hNMNNNmdddddddddy/`  dMM   WM Theme: Mint-Y-Dark-Grey (Mint-Y-Dark)
     -dMNs-``-::::-------.``    dMM   Theme: Mint-Y-Dark-Grey [GTK2/3]
      `/dMNmy+/:-------------:/yMMM   Icons: Mint-Y-Grey [GTK2/3]
         ./ydNMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM   Terminal: guake
            .MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM      CPU: Intel Xeon X5677 (16) @ 3.591GHz
                                      GPU: AMD Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X
                                      Memory: 12195MiB / 32155MiB
 
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