more proof of how badly optimized Yosemite is...

[steve62388]

Works fine for me.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

OMG the fps is less than 40 in Mission Control. Ring the alarm bells, get all the software engineers in!

More seriously - It's a desktop OS not a Call of Duty deathmatch. Does Mission Control work. Yes. Is it affecting OS stability. No. Quit moaning about a non-problem of a few dropped animation frames then on some new power efficient hardware. It's not hurting anyone, it's just eye candy.

The only saving grace of this thread is that no idiot has used the dreaded L-word yet.

Haha, I thought I was the only one bothered by that (last sentence).

Now, I'm going to the hardware store to pick up some bolts that only have threads part way up the shaft. What is it I should ask for?

 

[Traverse]

I had the Finder and then the whole system freeze today. Then, when it rebooted, it has a completely messed up dock. I had to use the terminal to reset it.

Here's the thread I made.

 

[Michael Goff]

Everyone with a bit of time on their hands should do this with their rMBP.

> Go get Quartz Debug
> turn off Beam Sync
> Notice frame rate drop for things such as being around links or staying on one webpage too long. When scrolling, it jumps over 100, then drops when you find where you're scrolling to. Notice is jump when Safari is opened and it has to draw windows. Notice how it's less than 10 at times just drawing the Quartz Debug menu and the desktop. Notice all of these things and chuckle.

 

[simonsi]

Everyone with a bit of time on their hands should do this with their rMBP.

> Go get Quartz Debug
> turn off Beam Sync
> Notice frame rate drop for things such as being around links or staying on one webpage too long. When scrolling, it jumps over 100, then drops when you find where you're scrolling to. Notice is jump when Safari is opened and it has to draw windows. Notice how it's less than 10 at times just drawing the Quartz Debug menu and the desktop. Notice all of these things and chuckle.

...and then what? Ah you saying this is by design? A fatal flaw?

 

[Michael Goff]

...and then what? Ah you saying this is by design? A fatal flaw?

And then... face-palm?

I'm saying this is a pretty major GUI flaw. This is proof that there's a lot of optimization that should be done. That this isn't some "oh no, it's under 40fps when mission control is open" sort of thing like somebody mocked earlier. This is a 10fps thing when running the newest 13" rMBP on desktop with three thumbnails, a window, and the FPS counter. I doubt it's by design.

 

[Blue Sun]

GUI animations in Yosemite need to be optimised. You can spin it anyway you want, but there is a degree of lag and stutter when activating Mission Control and other animations. iOS 8 on an iPhone 6 is silky smooth, but OS X Yosemite on my late 2013 15" rMBP is not.

Obviously this is not a make or break kind of issue, but clearly Apple can do better. End of story.

 

[leman]

Everyone with a bit of time on their hands should do this with their rMBP.

> Go get Quartz Debug
> turn off Beam Sync
> Notice frame rate drop for things such as being around links or staying on one webpage too long. When scrolling, it jumps over 100, then drops when you find where you're scrolling to. Notice is jump when Safari is opened and it has to draw windows. Notice how it's less than 10 at times just drawing the Quartz Debug menu and the desktop. Notice all of these things and chuckle.

You do realise that if nothing changes then you don't need to redraw anything? There is no need to redraw an animation at 60 FPS if it animation only updates 10 times per second. Overly aggressive redrawing wastes resources and gives you absolutely nothing. So yes, staying on a static webpage without animated content should show you exactly 0 fps on a well optimised system.

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You can spin it anyway you want, but there is a degree of lag and stutter when activating Mission Control and other animations.

Mission Control in certain cases is a difficult thing. It has to update all windows in real time, rescale them and put then on your display. For instance, if you have multiple windows that show animated contents — this is really a situation where the hardware could hit its limitations. Another problem occurs with applications that are just slow/inefficient at drawing. They will slow down the entire process. This is a difficult problem to solve. The best way might be to stop updating the contents if the OS notices that the application can't keep up. At any rate, you'll have to choose between correctness vs. fluid animation.

 

[MagicBoy]

Everyone with a bit of time on their hands should do this with their rMBP.

> Go get Quartz Debug
> turn off Beam Sync
> Notice frame rate drop for things such as being around links or staying on one webpage too long. When scrolling, it jumps over 100, then drops when you find where you're scrolling to. Notice is jump when Safari is opened and it has to draw windows. Notice how it's less than 10 at times just drawing the Quartz Debug menu and the desktop. Notice all of these things and chuckle.

Ever considered it's by design to save power? No need to redraw something that hasn't changed.

As I said above - it's a desktop OS, not Call of Duty.

 

[Badagri]

OMG the fps is less than 40 in Mission Control. Ring the alarm bells, get all the software engineers in!

More seriously - It's a desktop OS not a Call of Duty deathmatch. Does Mission Control work. Yes. Is it affecting OS stability. No. Quit moaning about a non-problem of a few dropped animation frames then on some new power efficient hardware. It's not hurting anyone, it's just eye candy.

The only saving grace of this thread is that no idiot has used the dreaded L-word yet.

 

[mmomega]

I have 7 Macs at home with Yosemite and the OS in all works great on all of them.
Only 2 of them exhibit any slowness with the GUI and those are in bold.

2015 15" rMBP 750m
2013 27" i7 iMac
2013 13" MBA
2012 27" i7 iMac
2012 15" rMBP 650m
2012 i7 Mac Mini
2007 20" iMac

I can understand some UI lag on the '07 iMac and it isn't terrible slow, maybe just a very barely noticeable stutter when opening my Applications folder from task bar or mission control.
Almost the exact same problem I have with the '12 1st gen retina Macbook.

The issues I've had with Yosemite are so minute that I would have to search for something and then blow it up to be a bigger problem than it is. To me, this little stutter doesn't affect anything I do, I just notice it every once in a while.
But I guess I don't expect 100% perfection from ANY Operating System because I've never experienced that from any equipment being controlled by software from my almost 40 yrs of working with tech.

 

[Michael Goff]

You do realise that if nothing changes then you don't need to redraw anything? There is no need to redraw an animation at 60 FPS if it animation only updates 10 times per second. Overly aggressive redrawing wastes resources and gives you absolutely nothing. So yes, staying on a static webpage without animated content should show you exactly 0 fps on a well optimised system.

----------



Mission Control in certain cases is a difficult thing. It has to update all windows in real time, rescale them and put then on your display. For instance, if you have multiple windows that show animated contents — this is really a situation where the hardware could hit its limitations. Another problem occurs with applications that are just slow/inefficient at drawing. They will slow down the entire process. This is a difficult problem to solve. The best way might be to stop updating the contents if the OS notices that the application can't keep up. At any rate, you'll have to choose between correctness vs. fluid animation.

Except it isn't dropping to 0, it's dropping to about 20. So obviously it's still dropping something.

Ever considered it's by design to save power? No need to redraw something that hasn't changed.

As I said above - it's a desktop OS, not Call of Duty.

No, I never did. *rolls eyes* As I said, it is still drawing something or else it would drop to 0 and not to 10-20. But, hey, nothing's wrong here!

 

[leman]

Except it isn't dropping to 0, it's dropping to about 20. So obviously it's still dropping something.

I don't know what exactly you were measuring so I can't give a response to that. If you have a text field somewhere with a blinking cursor or some animation/banner etc. in the corner, it can explain the lower update rate.

 

[Michael Goff]

I don't know what exactly you were measuring so I can't give a response to that. If you have a text field somewhere with a blinking cursor or some animation/banner etc. in the corner, it can explain the lower update rate.

Well, I am an idiot. GO ME! Can we just ignore the fact that I posted things before I went through and figured out what it was that was the ten or so FPS. :| Please?

 

[simonsi]

And then... face-palm?

I'm saying this is a pretty major GUI flaw. This is proof that there's a lot of optimization that should be done. That this isn't some "oh no, it's under 40fps when mission control is open" sort of thing like somebody mocked earlier. This is a 10fps thing when running the newest 13" rMBP on desktop with three thumbnails, a window, and the FPS counter. I doubt it's by design.

What you are describing shows that the frame rate rises when there are changes and drops when there aren't.

face-palm - does that not sound like making best use of resources? You don't seem to be able to comment as to whether this IS by design (looks it to me), or is a "fault".

 

[NT1440]

Only the foolish would rely on their own, heavily moderated forums as the sole reference to data mine and gain insight on trending issues. There is a reason why macrumors forums et al are so popular.

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As opposed to articles that focus on ONE PERSONs experience and has for some reason been making its way through tech sites...with no further testing or analysis.

Sounds like foolishness on all sides really.

 

[leman]

As opposed to articles that focus on ONE PERSONs experience and has for some reason been making its way through tech sites...with no further testing or analysis.

Sounds like foolishness on all sides really.

Well, you know how this usually works I remember few years ago, some guy here on the forum wrote up some speculations which if I recall correctly, were meant mostly as a joke. Some time later his post (rephrased and retold dozens of time) ended up on major Apple-related newsiness and finally got reposted back on MacRumors as a front-line news item. People were later able to track how this thing was spreading around, quite spectacular really.

P.S. If anyone can remember or find that story and the relevant posts, I would love to see them again!

 

[simonsi]

Well, you know how this usually works I remember few years ago, some guy here on the forum wrote up some speculations which if I recall correctly, were meant mostly as a joke. Some time later his post (rephrased and retold dozens of time) ended up on major Apple-related newsiness and finally got reposted back on MacRumors as a front-line news item. People were later able to track how this thing was spreading around, quite spectacular really.

LOL - anecdotes becoming "data"

 

[NT1440]

Well, you know how this usually works I remember few years ago, some guy here on the forum wrote up some speculations which if I recall correctly, were meant mostly as a joke. Some time later his post (rephrased and retold dozens of time) ended up on major Apple-related newsiness and finally got reposted back on MacRumors as a front-line news item. People were later able to track how this thing was spreading around, quite spectacular really.

Unfortunately this is what journalism-for-clicks has turned the entire industry into. Sensationalist click-bait based on anecdotes with little to no follow up questions or analysis.

BREAKING: CompSci 101 student at *insert prestigious university here* indicates upon his own one time use of *tech product X* that *Company Y* clearly doesn't have engineers as good as this one student, whom could have coded the entire OS on his own after his first 101 lecture.

 

[Michael Goff]

What you are describing shows that the frame rate rises when there are changes and drops when there aren't.

face-palm - does that not sound like making best use of resources? You don't seem to be able to comment as to whether this IS by design (looks it to me), or is a "fault".

I figured out what my big problem was. It was something I was overlooking on my own desktop. Also, I wasn't using my brain-matter.

 

[chevalier433]

For people who work with their computer its a bad pain in the ass for the others to play civilization,surf and email its beautiful.
Its the worst optimized OS apple ever made hard freezes,LAG,need restart all the time,hardware resources hog,finder is slow,bluetooth problems,slow wifi,external ntfs disk mess,safari ad lover,and a lot other bugs.
Congratulations rotten Apple you make me remember the good old windows 2000 days.Oh you Lazy rotten apple programmers already miss my precious sold iMac 27 i7 2010 with Snow Leopard.

 

[Naio]

Personally, I love Yosemite and I think it's great, but... They need to optimise their animations. They are almost never drawn at 60 FPS. I also get random stutters when scrolling webpages in Safari sometimes.

All of this is on a Late 2013 rMBP 13" on a clean install of Yosemite, so it's not even that old of a computer.

I know I could enable 'Reduce Transparency' to improve performance, but the dock looks disgusting with that option enabled and it introduces weird graphical glitches bugs. Some things don't have rounded corners, etc when it's enabled.

I figured out what my big problem was. It was something I was overlooking on my own desktop. Also, I wasn't using my brain-matter.

Try enabling 'Flash screen updates' in Quartz Debug and you'll see what the system is redrawing.

Either way, there is something wrong with Beam Sync. I have myself noticed that it can draw over 100+ FPS, but only 40 FPS on the same action when it's enabled. I have thought of disabling Beam Sync full-time, but visual tearing in an operating system looks horrible and I'll get worse battery performance (not much point in drawing 100+ when I can only see 60).

 

[Zorn]

There's little point complaining about this when WWDC is 3 weeks away and we will have a first beta of the new OS. FWIW I have a Mac Pro 5,1 and a rMBP 2012 and have not noticed any issues with Yosemite.

 

[simonsi]

For people who work with their computer its a bad pain in the ass for the others to play civilization,surf and email its beautiful.
Its the worst optimized OS apple ever made hard freezes,LAG,need restart all the time,hardware resources hog,finder is slow,bluetooth problems,slow wifi,external ntfs disk mess,safari ad lover,and a lot other bugs.
Congratulations rotten Apple you make me remember the good old windows 2000 days.Oh you Lazy rotten apple programmers already miss my precious sold iMac 27 i7 2010 with Snow Leopard.

I have none of these issues...sounds TBH like you are letting your frustrations with IT generally get on top of you. If you use it for business then you need to carefully assess any IT change for revenue impact on your business.

What does external ntfs disk mess,safari ad lover even mean???

 

[simon lefisch]

Sounds like all these issues are the more recent Mac models. I have a late-2011 MBP w/ 16GB ram and a 7200rpm HD running Yosemite. Haven't had any probs so far. Maybe WWDC will show a better optimized OS for newer Macs.