New MS Laptop Hunter Ad

[Jimmetry]

Can you elaborate on this?

I will. In a direct sense, it's about swapping the right pages from the hard drive and predictive caching. In an indirect sense, it's about having clean frameworks so every developer doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, having a consistent set of libraries that aren't destroyed by bad paradigms and eroded oversecrecy, offloading procedures to the graphics processor, properly prioritising tasks and isolating errors. You might have noticed that Windows Task Manager can't always close processes... that's because things aren't isolated properly. Apps are dependent on libraries completely irrelevant to anything the program does.

Edit:
With regards to "offloading procedures to the graphics processor"... please don't tell me OpenCL hasn't been released yet. Everything drawn to the screen is done with OpenGL, in Windows it is not. Yes, Vista uses DirectX, but because they spent an extra 7 years in last century, very few applications benefit from it. It's an *extra* layer of mess. This is why Windows 7 will have an XP virtual machine compatibility layer something-or-other.

 

[Eidorian]

I will. In a direct sense, it's about swapping the right pages from the hard drive and predictive caching. In an indirect sense, it's about having clean frameworks so every developer doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, having a consistent set of libraries that aren't destroyed by bad paradigms and eroded oversecrecy, offloading procedures to the graphics processor, properly prioritising tasks and isolating errors. You might have noticed that Windows Task Manager can't always close processes... that's because things aren't isolated properly. Apps are dependent on libraries completely irrelevant to anything the program does.

I'm surprised that someone came up with a reasonably intelligent response. I find your statements about the libraries a little more applicable to OS X though.

Edit:
With regards to "offloading procedures to the graphics processor"... please don't tell me OpenCL hasn't been released yet. Everything drawn to the screen is done with OpenGL, in Windows it is not. Yes, Vista uses DirectX, but because they spent an extra 7 years in last century, very few applications benefit from it. It's an *extra* layer of mess. This is why Windows 7 will have an XP virtual machine compatibility layer something-or-other.

I do enjoy how OS X handles rendering over Windows, even Vista, but what does this have to do with memory management again?

 

[Xials]

You Just don't get it..

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works". Also you do realise it's not only the OS that needs RAM. OMG Mac hardware is the best. Apple is NOT overpriced, but just in case buy the base setup and go to the third party for HD and RAM because they're cheaper. Funny. What happened to superior and non-overpriced hardware? If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.

I don't think anybody every said "it just works... after you install 3rd party ram" I think they said "it just works" the point you seem to be missing here is that you don't need to upgrade to 4GB of ram, but you can if you want to and since it is only $50 more, it shouldn't be the deal breaker.
Lets look at some other specs...

the HP weighs in at 7.06 lbs... vs. the MacBook Pro 5.5... sounds like a win for mac, and yes a feature that is worth money to people who think for usability rather than specs.

then the 12 cell battery.. hangs off the back, and the whole computer has an EPEAT Silver rating, and they won't even list expected battery life cause it sucks.

the Display resolution a 16" with 1366x768... what a freaking piece of junk.. the MacBook Pro, 15" smaller lighter but higher res screen 1440x900.. and yes you can get the 1920x1080 but if you have ever used it, the res is almost too small to read on a 17" let alone a 16" not to mention being standard TFT, not LED... what does that mean, takes forever to warm up, and is not very consistent in to process. yes, even the macbook pro is not a desktop, but if you are going to edit, you want the best looking you can get.
what you PC people don't understand, is that there is more to the value of a computer than just a number, or a phrase, but it's the little things that make a huge difference. the average person will not notice the difference between processor speeds, ram, or 200 ports on a portable that never ever get used. they will notcie how nice that photo looks, how crisp it looks, how it works, how they can carry it all day without having to go to the chiropractor later. And you PC freaks also don't understand that not everyone is tech savvy enough to deal with a computer that breaks cause it's a piece of junk. And they also like that if it does break there is someone in town that can fix it, and they don't have to mail it back to HP. it's like the difference between a $20 hooker, and one that's $1000.. you get the same thing done, but the $1000 one is more fun, and you have a lot less chance of getting a deadly virus!

 

[joeshell383]

This thread is disgusting

Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting.

First, I expected the usual SJ RDF posts, even though this ad campaign hits Apple right where it hurts and does a great job doing so. When Apple omits or exaggerates things in its ads barely a peep is heard, but when Microsoft just tells the facts all the excuses come out. Also, any/all reasoning skills seem to fly out the window when it comes to defending Apple.... the need-less-RAM argument is poor, and the third-party RAM upgrade argument is even worse... it's not $50 more, it is $50+ the difference between the base MBP and the price she actually paid for her system (she didn't pay exactly $1999, she paid less). Hardware is one of the most objective things to compare and yet some of the people (I try not to generalize) on this thread still seem to think that MS is being unfair.
MS is being MORE than fair. MS didn't even mention how she wouldn't be able to transfer/burn her HD movies onto a sufficient optical disc/format, display her HD movies on a standard HDTV set without YET another adapter, etc...... on a Mac.

Second, so many of the posters think they're hot **** on this board. What kind of artist does this? What kind of artist could she be if she wants a laptop? Blah blah blah. She likely does the same work as MOST MAC CREATIVE PROFESSIONALS which IS NOT EDITING HOLLYWOOD FILMS, BUT INSTEAD WORKING ON SHORT INDEPENDENT PROJECTS OR LOCALLY-BASED FREELANCE WORK. AND NO, SHE PROBABLY DOESN'T USE WMM, JUST LIKE MOST MAC PROSUMERS WOULDN'T USE iMOVIE.

Third, of course only the pros will be mentioned, and the cons will be disregarded, it IS A SPONSORED AD, not an independent review. In business it is important to internally acknowledge the strengths of competitors, while (usually) exterally portraying competitors and competing products in a negative light. Again, don't hear much when Apple MARKETS ITS PRODUCTS.

But I expected all of the above, I've been here long enough to know the strength of the fanboyism and lack of objectivity and business sense, and unwarranted, unjustified "scrutiny". What I didn't expect, and this is what I found to be repulsive, was for people to actually comment on the woman's appearance as if that means or tells anything whatsoever. And based on what I've seen in the MacRumors member photo section, it REALLY seems that most posters on MR should refrain from such baseless commentary.

 

[Jimmetry]

I'm surprised that someone came up with a reasonably intelligent response. I find your statements about the libraries a little more applicable to OS X though.

Not at all. For the iPhone, yes, but that's because behind the scenes it's still incomplete.

I do enjoy how OS X handles rendering over Windows, even Vista, but what does this have to do with memory management again?

Because it means that everything is stored in system memory rather than graphics memory, which I assume means you're going to do a lot more page swapping. Not too clear on the details of all that though...

 

[HONDAxACURA]

It's OK... She'll learn in a year when her PC breaks down.

 

[Eidorian]

Not at all. For the iPhone, yes, but that's because behind the scenes it's still incomplete.

I'm surprised you don't hear groans at WWDC when Apple has decided to reinvent the wheel, again.

Because it means that everything is stored in system memory rather than graphics memory, which I assume means you're going to do a lot more page swapping. Not too clear on the details of all that though...

Once again can you explain the relation? You make it sound like the Windows GDI/+ never used the GPU at all for anything.

 

[Xials]

Duh.

Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting.

First, I expected the usual SJ RDF posts, even though this ad campaign hits Apple right where it hurts and does a great job doing so. When Apple omits or exaggerates things in its ads barely a peep is heard, but when Microsoft just tells the facts all the excuses come out. Also, any/all reasoning skills seem to fly out the window when it comes to defending Apple.... the RAM argument is poor, and the RAM upgrade argument is even worse... it's not $50 more, it is $50+ the difference between the base MBP and the price she actually paid for her system (she didn't pay exactly $1999, she paid less). Hardware is one of the most objective things to compare and yet some of the people (I try not to generalize) on this thread still seem to think that MS is being unfair.
MS is being MORE than fair. MS didn't even mention how she wouldn't be able to transfer/burn her HD movies onto a sufficient optical disc/format, display her HD movies on a standard HDTV set without YET another adapter, etc...... on a Mac.

Second, so many of the posters think they're hot **** on this board. What kind of artist does this? What kind of artist could she be if she wants a laptop? Blah blah blah. She likely does the same work as MOST MAC CREATIVE PROFESSIONALS which IS NOT EDITING HOLLYWOOD FILMS, BUT INSTEAD WORKING ON SHORT INDEPENDENT PROJECTS OR LOCALLY-BASED FREELANCE WORK. AND NO, SHE PROBABLY DOESN'T USE WMM, JUST LIKE MOST MAC PROSUMERS WOULDN'T USE iMOVIE.

Third, of course only the pros will be mentioned, and the cons will be disregarded, it IS A SPONSORED AD, not an independent review. In business it is important to internally acknowledge the strengths of competitors, while (usually) exterally portraying competitors and competing products in a negative light. Again, don't hear much when Apple MARKETS ITS PRODUCTS.

But I expected all of the above, I've been here long enough to know the strength of the fanboyism and lack of objectivity and business sense, and unwarranted, unjustified "scrutiny". What I didn't expect, and this is what I found to be repulsive, was for people to actually comment on the woman's appearance as if that means or tells anything whatsoever. And based on what I've seen in the MacRumors member photo section, it REALLY seems that most posters on MR should refrain from such baseless commentary.

you know you think everyone's fan boys cause they love macs on here... we have no reason to speak to much else.. If I was on CNET maybe I would be more professional. But if you want to argue if Macs make good business sense we could go off true cost of ownership, firing your IT dep. in favor of a guy who comes once a month to check up on your stuff, unlimited user licenses for servers without extra cost... there are more
While it may be true that there are many fan boys on here, it does not mean they are all wrong... you know some became that way because they used something called a brain, and they think of more than just what the PC fanboys told them to look for.

 

[Bloomedis]

"fast processor, big screen..."
...
"...but it's also not too big!"

..What?

 

[Slurpy2k8]

You know what blows my mind about all these ads, other than their inane stupidity?

The fact that they're Microsoft ads, where they're supposed to be advertising WINDOWS and the OS is never even a FACTOR in any of these ads. The entire reason of Apple's existence is because of their software. Hardware is a secondary thing. Yet these ads are solely about the cheapest possible hardware that fulfills random bullet points that are convenient. Guess what? Some PC will ALWAYS be able to beat out a mac with that ridiculous comparison.

These ads are so incredibly intellectually dishonest. Instead of arguing the merits of Windows over OSX, its down to advertising for HP, etc. Pretty damn pointless. At least mac ads attempt to point out differences between the 2 Operating systems (as well as not pretending to be candid 'home video' footage, which is extremely insulting to the intelligence)

 

[Jimmetry]

I'm surprised you don't hear groans at WWDC when Apple has decided to reinvent the wheel, again.

Once again can you explain the relation? You make it sound like the Windows GDI/+ never used the GPU at all for anything.

Well GDI certainly didn't. GDI+ apparently has some capabilities, but due to the bloat that is .NET, it doesn't use these capabilities efficiently (quite the opposite, in fact.. you waste more memory and CPU cycles with a .NET app).

Edit:
The relation is page swapping. You need to do more of it if everything is stored in system memory. Page swapping is quite a heavy task.

It's always fun to watch Vista's page fault counter...

 

[Chappers]

Well I like the adverts. People rushing into a shop to buy something without doing any research - buy cheap - great fun. Love em.

 

[Norco]

There's one thing you can't accuse Microsoft of... and that's picking their actors based on looks.

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread, but what about re-sale value? Sure nobody buys a computer to keep its value just like a car, but its like comparing a used Japanese car to an American car -- when it's time to upgrade, at least it's worth more than how much gas is left in the tank.

 

[Eidorian]

Well GDI certainly didn't. GDI+ apparently has some capabilities, but due to the bloat that is .NET, it doesn't use these capabilities efficiently (quite the opposite, in fact.. you waste more memory and CPU cycles with a .NET app).

Thank you. Your point has come across clearly.

There's still a small nag in the back of my mind that you started off talking about the compositing window managers though.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Wow, Microsoft...really?

First ad: "PC users are broke."
Second ad: "PC users have no taste."
Third ad: "PC users are 11 years old and possibly hiding in the closet."
Fourth ad: "PC users are uncreative."

EPIC FAIL!

On the other hand, I know quite a few people, mostly coworkers (all Windows users in the 50, 60+ age category) who tell me that they think the "Get a Mac" ads are "cute" and "funny." They especially like the bewildered John Hodgman as the PC. If I were them, I would feel VERY insulted by these Windows ads. Here Microsoft is trying to reassure PC users that they are not broke, not uncreative, etc., but they end up giving that exact impression. How rude, Microsoft!

 

[Eidorian]

First ad: "PC users are broke."
Second ad: "PC users have no taste."
Third ad: "PC users are 11 years old and possibly hiding in the closet."
Fourth ad: "PC users are uncreative."

EPIC FAIL!

On the other hand, I know quite a few people, mostly coworkers (all Windows users in the 50, 60+ age category) who tell me that they think the "Get a Mac" ads are "cute" and "funny." They especially like the bewildered John Hodgman as the PC. If I were them, I would feel VERY insulted by these Windows ads. Here Microsoft is trying to reassure PC users that they are not broke, not uncreative, etc., but they end up giving that exact impression. How rude, Microsoft!

I feel that Apple's ads insult my intelligence and that none of their points reflect why I bought a Mac.

That's just me though.

 

[Jimmetry]

I feel that Apple's ads insult my intelligence and that none of their points reflect why I bought a Mac.

I agree. Although I don't think they have the defect of trying to be something they're not.

 

[Eidorian]

I agree. Although I don't think they have the defect of trying to be something they're not.

Apple and Microsoft are just being Apple and Microsoft. It's what I expect, sadly.

I just wish I didn't have to pay as much for my Macs or got more value for the price that I do pay for the hardware.

 

[MBAir]

M6 in the background, that's what grabbed my attention.

 

[sn00pie]

Yeah, definitely the worst ad so far. I think Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot with this campaign. It started off well and caught the attention of the Apple community, but now they're just making themselves look bad.

Personally if Microsoft took more of a direct focus on aiming down Apple in their advertisements, they would be more successful, because right now they are throwing out a whole lot of mumbo jumbo with 5 seconds of Apple in the mix.

M6 in the background, that's what grabbed my attention.

hehe...me too

 

[casik]

hahahaHAHAHAHA

first of all if anyone is actually serious about video editing we all know the truth.

second of all if anyone is semi-serious about video editing we all know the truth.

thirdly what kinda deal to HP and Microsuck have going on here? Haven't all the commercials end in a HP purchase.

I can't explain how badly I want Apple to use the same people and make retaliation commercials about this.... I would wet my pants.

As for the Apple commercials they all seem to be about the offensive side while MS ones are all defensive... just a thought.

I would consider myself semi-pro and the only reason I would ever buy a PC to do editing is if I wanted a good excuse to be unproductive.

 

[sushi]

IMHO, this is the worst one of the three.

However, for the computer ignorant, it might work.

As some have already mentioned, it seems like HP and Microsoft are in this together. Maybe the next one the individual will settle on something besides an HP.

 

[dasikes]

If anyone's dumb enough to think a laptop is what they need for editing, and not a desktop, they might as well get a machine running vista.

 

[Vercingetorix]

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be..

This is THE point of the little anti-Mac snippet of the commercial. Any tech person who's ever been roped into helping a non-tech person buy a computer has seen how they obsess over the numbers -- RAM, disk space, and (at least a few years ago) processor speed -- in order to be sure that they're not getting ripped off. They don't even know what RAM is; they just know that this one has more and this one has less. And they should get 4 "gigs" of, uh, whatever, instead of 2.

This is the audience that the commercial's targeting. The whole message of this series is that Macs are all about flash over substance, and that you get more for your money by buying a PC. That's it. The target audience doesn't care that you can throw more memory in for $40 because they wouldn't even know what they were upgrading or why. They just know that 4 gigs of something is better than 2 gigs.

It doesn't matter what these people end up picking; the only thing that matters to Microsoft and its ad agency is the 8-10 seconds they spend considering and dismissing the Macs. That's the message. And that's why these are IMO pretty effective and damning commercials. Recession-wracked America doesn't give a crap whether OS X runs fine on 2 GBs or not; all they see is "two gigs versus four gigs" and it looks like a ripoff.

 

[Norco]

All Apple needs to do is make a commercial that goes something like this:

Here's Bob, he has a question about his computer. If he had a Mac, he could do this:

--walks into a Apple store, speaks to a Apple genius.

Now here he is if he bought a PC.

--on hold to get some guy in India trying to walk him through steps.


With Apple's success with their stores, they need to continue to advertise the fact that you can talk to someone face to face about your problems. That's very unique given today's trend of outsourcing.