No 2018 iMac?!

[iZeljko]

I've settled to make an upgrade... The money is in my hands and if not on mac it will be drugs and whores and alcohol cause I can not stand this **** any longer.

I've set my mind on the 15" MBP with 2,6GHZ, 16GB and ave nRX560, but the kernel panic situation and me being miles away from the apple store has made me reconsider this model of MBP.

I'm hoping that the iMac would be a better product. At least with no T2/KP related issues and without heat limitations like the current flagship iMac.

I would easily settle for a 6 core CPU, 16GB of RAM if RAM door is included, 32GB if there is no RAM door. 512GB to 1T SSD depending on price, I'd hope for a GPU that is a little above the 580, but I could live with that.
5K retina, it could be the same form factor of the design, but I would expect to see a massive upgrade on the cooling system.

Cooling system has been a show stopper when considering a current generation of iMac. There is even a video on YT where a dude milled a larger air vent on his i7 & RX580 combo in order to keep the temperature in the machine at reasonable levels.

Have a look at the video:

I would have no problem in purchasing a current gen iMac if Apple would let me keep the warranty after the air vent slot has been milled in the back of the machine. And I'm sure i will be going to the apple store with a dial gauge to compare the size of the vent hole on new and old models.

 

[294307]

Why is this guy's 575 running at 95 Celsius?

Where did you get that from? No one has mentioned they have a 575 or have temperatures at that level.

 

[Mol1n]

Where did you get that from? No one has mentioned they have a 575 or have temperatures at that level.

This guy says that on default it goes to 95.

 

[cwanja]

This guy says that on default it goes to 95.

He actually said it stays around 50-55° and never gets higher than 70°.

 

[Mol1n]

He actually said it stays around 50-55° and never gets higher than 70°.

Don't know why my links kept disappearing.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60677973

This was the link.


bbnck was talking about the cpu.

 

[Double-Slit]

Apple offer in The Netherlands until oct. 2: free Beats Solo3 wireless headphones with new ordered iMac and iPad Pro. Also discount on Apple care, music and pencil. Guess Apple wants to get rid of stock. New 2018 iMac is coming soon, I think.

 

[sebulban]

Mine is a bit old but sure so I will replace my no longer available parts with modern parts:

Thermal Take MK-ii Chaster
Kingston Hyperx RAM
Core i5 4690k
Asus z97-Pro Gamer motherboard

Since I am in Canada I'll use Canadian Dollars.

Core i5 8600k + Gigabyte Aorus Ultra Gaming Board - $534.99
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/BDL_MM00001252

EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti - $659.99 (I have a normal GTX 1070 FTW)
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX69137

Corsair Vengeance 16 GB DDR4 2400 MHZ - $209.99
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX64510

1TB Samsung 860 Evo 2.5in SSD, SATA III - $219.99
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX70319

ThermalTake Versa C21 - $79.99
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX64841

SuperNOVA 750 G3 Modular Power Supply, 750W - $129.99
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX64228

Total $1833.95 CDN

Extras:

Windows 10 Pro $199.99

LG Ultrafine 5k Monitor - $899.99

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produ...r-3hZ8pXk09pML5WZ0waAsP6EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Microsoft Designer Bluetooth Desktop, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse Combo $89.99 (I picked this cause it was wireless)
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX56935

Grand total:
$2933.93 CDN or 2,270.22 USD:

Compare that to the price of the 27' 5K iMac at $3079 CDN.

I have a current generation, overclockable Core i5
Double the ram
I have a 1 TB SSD v 1 TB HDD
I have a better GPU

I could have made even better choices, like giving up the Windows 10 Pro for home edition, 512 GB SSD, 550 WATT non-modular power supply, regular non-overclockable core i5, a B motherboard, and non-Ti GPU. I could have saved even more but I wanted to be somewhat fair.

I like Apple, I used to be a bit of an Apple Fan Boy. I used a MacBook since the first Black MacBook came out. What made me one was the simple fact that I was getting good value for my money. I also was able to upgrade my MacBook as needed, installed a SSD, upgraded to 16 GBs. My old Macbook Pro 13 lasted forever and it still works fine. I paid a premium but I also got a premium specked laptop.

But I cannot justify buying a new MacBook Pro or any other Mac, its outdated, cannot be upgraded, and repair is impossible. But I am still paying a premium for it. I always had my complaints about Apple, but I never felt horribly ripped off by the company.

You may want to think that monitor again. Your configuration does not have tb3 for display...
For 5k in the non Mac world I think that the cheapest is some Phillips around 1800$..
And anyways comparing prices when adding refurbished/used components is quite lame..

 

[TheIntruder]

With the suitable 9000-series processors having been unofficially revealed, and rumored to launch next month, it seems that the iMac could skip the 8th gen altogether.

 

[iZeljko]

With the suitable 9000-series processors having been unofficially revealed, and rumored to launch next month, it seems that the iMac could skip the 8th gen altogether.

Let’s hope so.

It might not be a bad idea if they’d also skipped the T2....

 

[Glmnet1]

With the suitable 9000-series processors having been unofficially revealed, and rumored to launch next month, it seems that the iMac could skip the 8th gen altogether.

9th gen isn't released yet and Apple usually updates its products at least a few months after release. So I think it's either 8th gen in October or 9th gen in the first half of 2019.

 

[Zdigital2015]

With the suitable 9000-series processors having been unofficially revealed, and rumored to launch next month, it seems that the iMac could skip the 8th gen altogether.

Intel is doing another staggered rollout of CPUs similar to Coffee Lake (8th gen) last year and on top of that, they are also having supply constraint issues on some existing 14nm products. I suspect we will see Apple using 8th generation in the 21.5” iMac and the base model ($1799 model) 27” iMac. Intel’s issues with 10nm are now blowing back into its stable nodes, which is absolutely ridiculous, but I digress.

Sources:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-14nm-shortage-test-facility,37783.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/14nm-processor-intel-shortage-9000-series,37746.html

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-14nm-cpu-shortage-whiskey-lake,37777.html

EDIT: OEMs will get preference on their orders, over boxed retail, but that does not mean that there will not be delays for everyone at this point. If Apple pulls the iMac from any October event that occurs, that would be why. At this point, I am wondering if the October event will be scuttled or whittled down to just the iPad Pros.

The flip side is that Apple puts 8th generation in all 2018 iMacs to meet demand and then people flip out because they are “old” CPUs...not sure Apple can win this one, especially if Intel’s issues persist.

Hopefully, Apple was able to secure enough CPUs to get it through the holiday season...we will find out soon, I guess.

 

[iZeljko]

9th gen isn't released yet and Apple usually updates its products at least a few months after release. So I think it's either 8th gen in October or 9th gen in the first half of 2019.

I’m not intel expert but I would not eliminate the posibility of 9th gen iMac release this year.
Intel must have been sending the CPUs to companies like apple for their evaluation and tests.
It would be hard to imagine that intel can ignore apple and not send them first prototypes.

 

[Glmnet1]

I’m not intel expert but I would not eliminate the posibility of 9th gen iMac release this year.
Intel must have been sending the CPUs to companies like apple for their evaluation and tests.
It would be hard to imagine that intel can ignore apple and not send them first prototypes.

I have no idea how what they send Apple or not, what I know is that if you look at the Mac releases and compare them with Intel's, you see that Apple's is always at least a few months after.

For example:
iMac 2017 released on June 5, 2017 - 7700k released on January, 2017
iMac 2015 released on October 13, 2015 - 6700k released on August, 2015
iMac 2014 released on October 16, 2014 - 4790K released on June 2014

Currently the 8700k has been out for almost a year and still no concrete sign of a new iMac. I don't know what's going on but I wouldn't bet on Apple suddenly putting 9th gen CPU in an iMac days or even weeks after it's released.

 

[Grohowiak]

I have no idea how what they send Apple or not, what I know is that if you look at the Mac releases and compare them with Intel's, you see that Apple's is always at least a few months after.

For example:
iMac 2017 released on June 5, 2017 - 7700k released on January, 2017
iMac 2015 released on October 13, 2015 - 6700k released on August, 2015
iMac 2014 released on October 16, 2014 - 4790K released on June 2014

Currently the 8700k has been out for almost a year and still no concrete sign of a new iMac. I don't know what's going on but I wouldn't bet on Apple suddenly putting 9th gen CPU in an iMac days or even weeks after it's released.

I own the desktop 8700K and 8750K on a Alienware laptop and oh boy that thing is a mini reactor.
If they put them in the macs then welcome to throttling bonanza as there’s no way it will be able to keep temps in check with that enclosure unless they redesign the whole thing.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I have no idea how what they send Apple or not, what I know is that if you look at the Mac releases and compare them with Intel's, you see that Apple's is always at least a few months after.

For example:
iMac 2017 released on June 5, 2017 - 7700k released on January, 2017
iMac 2015 released on October 13, 2015 - 6700k released on August, 2015
iMac 2014 released on October 16, 2014 - 4790K released on June 2014

Currently the 8700k has been out for almost a year and still no concrete sign of a new iMac. I don't know what's going on but I wouldn't bet on Apple suddenly putting 9th gen CPU in an iMac days or even weeks after it's released.

Although the Core i7-8700K was announced in August, it was in short supply for several months afterwards Also, not all of the CPUs that Apple would have needed for both sized iMacs (notably, the Core i5-8500 and Core i5-8600) were available until April of 2018. By the time they were widely available, there were already rumblings of the 9th generation coming out in Q3/Q4 of 2018. I suspect Apple already knew about this and decided to consolidate their engineering effort around the Z390 PCH as opposed to the Z370, as the Z390 offers a few updates that users would gravitate towards and would still allow for Apple to mix 8th and 9th gen CPUs together as they desired.

The gap in announcing versus shipping is consistent with Apple getting sufficient stock on hand before it releases new hardware. Dell, HP and other OEMs have often announced new computers the same day Intel announces their new CPUs and then your delivery date for your order reflects a 2-3 month delay in some cases. This just recently happened with the 45w H-Series and Apple took a lot of heat for that, when in actuality Apple had stock in stores Mid-July and being purchased while Dell's website was still quoting me a July 26th-28th ship date on the XPS 15. I just checked earlier today and I am seeing a delivery date of October 18th on a Core i7-8750H XPS 15 which is consistent with earlier reports of 14nm CPU shortages.

The upshot of all this is that Apple may have to delay announcing an iMac update until after the holiday season to give Intel time to stabilize its inventory. Or they may announce limited availability on any 9th generation iMacs, which will hamper holiday sales. Fun times ahead.
[doublepost=1537805010][/doublepost]

I own the desktop 8700K and 8750K on a Alienware laptop and oh boy that thing is a mini reactor.
If they put them in the macs then welcome to throttling bonanza as there’s no way it will be able to keep temps in check with that enclosure unless they redesign the whole thing.

If they update the current iMac chassis with the one used for the iMac Pro, they should be just fine. After all, the custom Xeon W CPUs are probably a ~120w TDP and the the R500X series GPU is not going to generate as much heat as the Vega 56 and 64 GPUs. However, this may necessitate the loss of the RAM door, which will cause a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth around the forums and on this thread.

 

[Kurri]

I'm ready for some rumors...seems like we would have heard something if Apple is planning an October event. Is the October event 100% happening at this point?

 

[Zdigital2015]

I'm ready for some rumors...seems like we would have heard something if Apple is planning an October event. Is the October event 100% happening at this point?

Not until the invites go out and we read the news report, I am afraid.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I'm ready for some rumors...seems like we would have heard something if Apple is planning an October event. Is the October event 100% happening at this point?

I don't think anything's 100% at this point. There are strong indications there are going to be new iPads, though. So that could entail an October event.

 

[Candykane75]

I don't think anything's 100% at this point. There are strong indications there are going to be new iPads, though. So that could entail an October event.

Take a look at this bar graphs it says it all :
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263393/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009-by-vendor/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263444/sales-of-apple-mac-computers-since-first-quarter-2006/

After the move to aluminum imacs and unibody apple got real lazy and forgot about making good computers and innovation, and put there focus on IPHONEs and Ipads , that's whats the future is and makes them insane money .
And with all that crasy money in stead of doing it right focus on what people need they blowing the time , money and resources on projects you will never see cars APPLE TVs and the things you do see air pod are just expensive and does not have a market .
I blame the CEO not taking care of the computer division better , they could have done so much better ... just look at apple's current line up 3 entry lvl laptops. the air should be the macbook and the macbook should have the hardware of the entry lvl pro and the pro should be great but just is a big disappointment because the heatsink that should cool it is just insane SMALL. To make things worse the IMAC design has not changed in like years. Just look at the on the mac pro, air and the mini ect they just keep selling 5 year old hardware and desin ... and even the new imac pro... it looks the same as a reguar Imac ooh no the paint is different...
Then on the software side apple is also disappointing, software things like FCP aperture ilife things that define a mac software experience things are real bad with very few updates innovations and even terminations of programs .
I can run ADOBE office chrome youtube face book and any other program on a cheap better looking windows PC much faster then on a MAC. And then its state of the art hardware ...
So why should people still buy macs the competition already had much better designs that are serviceable , better keyboard response battery life ... even company's like Microsoft innovate more LOOK at there Surface pro and microsoft surface studio this is what a "I"MAC PRO SHOULD LOOK LIKE insane, ergonomic , creative, balls to the walls !
I just dont know...
Then there are key moments they just miss, hell imac 20th birthday was 2 months ago what did apple do? You clearly see whats happening to apple's market share. growing growing then innovation stops no innovation 0 nada . They are so prowd to hold on to they're market share in difficult times. When they could have done so much better ! other companey's are doing it 2... I hope some one finally wakes up ant the share holders meeting and they think hmm sell the computer hard and software devission we will get a lot more money . And maybe then things will start to look up and be innovative again , because it JUST SUCKS at the moment.
I write this on my Imac 2008.

 

[Zdigital2015]

More fuel for the fire, but I cannot decide if it bolsters the likelihood of a refresh or works against it, especially in an October timeframe:

- https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/277624-amd-may-be-prepping-new-polaris-30-gpus-for-october-launch
- https://hothardware.com/news/amd-12nm-polaris-30-gpu-family-allegedly-primed-for-launch
- https://www.tweaktown.com/news/63296/amd-rumored-preparing-polaris-30-12nm-tech-rx-680/index.html

Most likely these will end up being the Radeon RX600 Series and Radeon Pro 600 Series (for Apple). Obviously, a 10-15% improvement in performance is rather small and nothing to write home about, but it is better than simply getting an X added on to the end of the current GPU. So this would most likely mean the following that would make it into any 2018 iMac refresh:

- AMD Radeon Pro R655 (Base 21.5" iMac w/Core i5)
- AMD Radeon Pro R660 (Step up/High end 21.5" iMac, w/Core i5 or BTO Core i7)
- AMD Radeon Pro R670 (Base 27" iMac, w/Core i5)
- AMD Radeon Pro R675 (Step up 27" iMac, w/Core i5)
- AMD Radeon Pro R680 (High end 27" iMac, w/Core i5 or BTO Core i7, BTO Core i9 if available/offered)

The rest of the specs will most likely be the usual suspects with a few upgrades.

1TB, 2TB, 3TB Fusion drives, plus 256, 512, 1TB and 2TB Flash storage (hard to see the 4TB tier in the mix, as the target market for this computer really is not going to benefit from a drive that size the way iMac Pro owners do)
Up to 64GB DDR-2666
802.11AC/Bluetooth 5.0
Gigabit Ethernet
2 Thunderbolt 3 ports
4 USB 3.0 ports
SDXC card slot
Combined Audio In/Out jack
FaceTimeHD

I decline to speculate about 8th generation versus 9th generation offerings at this point, because I believe the situation is too fluid right now. I would think Apple has secured enough CPUs to supply all 5 price tiers of the iMac, but those wanting the BTO Core i7 and Core i9 CPUs may end up waiting for Intel to meet demand.

 

[xgman]

I'm not sure Apple just sits around waiting for Intel to magically come up with candidates. Apple probably consults with Intel way in advance, and together they meet whatever demand Apple will have in mind for any given upgrade cycle. I imagine it is a quite lucrative arrangement for Intel.

 

[DQ11]

I own the desktop 8700K and 8750K on a Alienware laptop and oh boy that thing is a mini reactor.
If they put them in the macs then welcome to throttling bonanza as there’s no way it will be able to keep temps in check with that enclosure unless they redesign the whole thing.

the 65w i5 could though and that could compete against the i7-7700k in a lot of areas.

 

[enc0re]

I suspect Apple doesn’t see things my way, but I think it’s time for Vega in the iMac. The reality is that with NVIDIA’s launch of the Turing architecture (RTX 2000), Vega is now effectively a mid-range card. And iMacs deserve to top out with at least a mid-range card.

 

[wubsylol]

I think we're more like to see the 500X-series (like in the 2018 MBP) in a new iMac than Vega or the rumoured 600-series.

 

[Kevbasscat]

I'm a windows guy and always will be but that doesn't mean I find mac useless. I've been running macs since 2007 (with breaks) and my last 13" 2016 MBP which was intercepted by my family did great. Yesterday I went and bought a 2017 iMac as I simply like to use OSX and I know it will serve me well. If you have to use FCPX (one of the reasons I am getting this machine as occasionally I have clients with macs) $1850 with apple care is not much and it will do just fine. If I would need a bad ass iMac Pro I'm looking at north of $5000...

So here we are for comparison. I have a beefed 8700K running 5.2GHz that I use for 3D and gaming and while it kills the iMac by sheer power it's in no way cheaper especially in the long run.
I update it once every 1-2 years and that usually runs me extra $1000-1500. I use a Eizo ColorEdge 2K as I work with print and by that point I am way over $5K from the go so it's far from better value. It does what I need it to do but it's not cheap. Sure I can get a PC for $1500 for games but damn man not everybody plays games on PCs. Most of my friends are either candy crush addicts or console gamers. They don't have the time and money to keep up with PC just so you can run a new game smoothly.

Now which will have better resale value in 4 years? My PC or the iMac? Wanna bet it's the iMac not to mention that by that time my PC will be quadruple the price of the mac?

What about user experience? OSX is candy, useful, simple (for most part) and very user friendly. I love windows 10 but it can lead you into a corner where without knowledge you are fu****

On PC I use apps to control core voltage depending on the task just so I don't have to run my liquid cooler at full speed. Ever heard 9 fans spinning when 12 cores at 5.2GHz and 100% usage are doing their magic for hours at a time? Occasionally I will set affinity mask to give certain applications per core assignment. Things like that make windows a beats but they require a lot more input and knowledge from a user. The iMac thou, I will turn it on, finish my tasks and will shut it off. It's simple and I love it.

Accept the strength of each platform and use it to your advantage. It's a tool so just pick the one that will work for you, be happy and remember that user experience has much greater value than numbers on a paper sheet which is the main reason why macs are so popular.

That is by far the most down to earth, common sense, and most humane thing I have ever read on these forums. Thank you. They are just tools when all is said and done, but then there is the Apple emotional connection lol, that created the Apple zealots. I was one of them who was affected, or infected, and why not be? For 18 years I did not have one single breakdown or failure, or even a minor issue, other than a button battery dying on my G4 Silver… Apple performed back then and "earned" my trust and respect. When they blacklisted my 9,1 iMac with Sierra and I had all the hardware to run it, it raised my eyebrows, and felt like I was being forced to upgrade, by marketing, and nobody forces me to do anything ever. There was no explanation, nothing. I was pissed off and felt as if Apple had steered away from Steve Jobs mission statement. I went looking for you, the members of this forum for insight.

"HELLO!!! Good morning Kev. You’ve been sleeping quietly in your own pretend world for much too long. We have a responsibility to rip open those dreamy eyes and put a knife through that heart that had loved so purely."
Notice how my descriptions were coming from an emotional experience, not from critical thinking, or logic?
That my friends is precisely how coming to here (MacRumors) was after being so, how do I say it? Utterly happy, satisfied and truly in love with Apple. because that was my honest, long time user experience and perception of Apple. I dribbled Apple...everywhere Ignorance is not bliss. I’m still recovering from scorned lovers mode thanks to you. I am saying this because not everyone who enters here are cold heartless machines, out to debate every tiny particle, yet our perceptions which come from our experiences are real, even if our field of vision is narrowed. This I learned while doing a research project on a set of human behavior patterns that occur after abuse. I was required to talk to young people, and from the first conversation, just by their speech or writing patterns, the thing that hit me was, "no one has ever just listened and respected your experience as you saw it." We tend to dismiss the young as, "aww you don’t know anything," and not allow their experience or perceptions to be validated or honored. To not give them the same human rights or equal value, we adults give ourselves, because we have lived longer. Exactly what the parent/child hierarchy does, "Cause I said so, that’s why." Then you wonder why your kids hate you.

When translated to this forum lol, some of us have lived just as long, but our experiences are very different, so our perception and attachment are also. I had been trying to understand why this place felt like doctors office. In many ways it just is. Let me say this though. The doctors we love and hold the highest, not only know their profession well, they have ability to humanize your experience, by being approachable, and empathetic. It’s all well and fine to debate, and to joust, but a bit of salve to heal wounded before you stab them is just good practic. You do remember the hippocratic oath correct? lol.

Balance is everything. This gentleman spoke it perfectly. He recognized Apple’s real "good will" value, which is precisely why Apple is that Trillion dollar thing. They appeal to your emotional being and that is something which we’ll happily pay out the noses for. The rest of you, in our eyes, are missing out but then again, you have all that logic to keep you warm and fuzzy. Btw, this is coming from a cold scientific, critical thinker.