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When will the iMac be refreshed?

  • September/October Event

  • November/December Event

  • March/April Event

  • WWDC 2019


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Internet Enzyme

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Original poster
Feb 21, 2016
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I agree. I did the same thing. While expensive, Apple's price is in line with other quality 1TB SSD's and the speed of Apple's internal SSD's in the 2017 iMacs is phenomenal. It's almost like a RAM drive.
Yeah. I kinda made a mistake with getting a 128gb ssd with my rmbp. maybe i made the same mistake with a 512gb ssd in this computer. But that’s four times the space. I don’t even use more than around 300GB currently so I should be fine for a while. I feel like when I need more space external thunderbolt 3 nvme enclosures will be more widely available. At least i hope. Because this thing sounds pretty cool https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/netstor-na611tb3-thunderbolt-3-nvme-portable-ssd,5359.html
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,233
418
Brooklyn, NY
Yeah. I kinda made a mistake with getting a 128gb ssd with my rmbp. maybe i made the same mistake with a 512gb ssd in this computer. But that’s four times the space. I don’t even use more than around 300GB currently so I should be fine for a while. I feel like when I need more space external thunderbolt 3 nvme enclosures will be more widely available. At least i hope. Because this thing sounds pretty cool https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/netstor-na611tb3-thunderbolt-3-nvme-portable-ssd,5359.html

The 512GB SSD is no slouch, and I wouldn't call getting it instead of the 1 TB a mistake. At least you do have the option of adding a super fast TB3 SSD later, when they certainly will be less expensive.
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,940
5,162
Amsterdam, Netherlands
We got the base 27" with, unfortunately, 1 TB Fusion Drive because Apple premium was +360 euro for 512 GB *and* we got a discount of 145 euro on the base model from a reseller. So that SSD would cost us 505 euro. We have an external one on USB-C to USB3.1 cable for the files that need to be accessed fast, main apps and system load in reasonable time, and...and I hope for new iMacs in the next 18 days so we can exchange it for (hopefully) SSD as a base drive.

Dreams are free.
 

ondert

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2017
692
997
Canada
Is there a strong expectation about the update time for the iMac? I would like to sell my MacBook Pro and pass to iMac this time. However, Apple's recklessness about Mac lineup really pisses me off. I won't buy an outdated hardware as "new".
 

bootamac

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2007
16
7
I don't know but my guess is coffee lake will be skipped over and a mid to late 2019 cannon lake imacs will be introduced. Otherwise if coffee lake Imacs are introduced they are already behind the eight ball as Cannon Lake is almost on us.
 

Glmnet1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2017
973
1,093
I don't know but my guess is coffee lake will be skipped over and a mid to late 2019 cannon lake imacs will be introduced. Otherwise if coffee lake Imacs are introduced they are already behind the eight ball as Cannon Lake is almost on us.
I have a feeling the delay is more related to the lack of GPU updates now. There's the 500X series but that's just a rebrand and maybe Apple has some information on new adequate GPUs from AMD in the next months.

Coffee lake would be ideal for a good performance boost and it's ready now. I really hope they are not skipping it just for the sake of skipping it...
 
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mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,233
418
Brooklyn, NY
The iMac Pro can be had for $4,299 at Micro Center.

Actually Micro Center does not have them right now, and that would be for only the base model, with 32GB of non-easily upgradeable RAM. With tax and AppleCare, should the OP decide to get that, you're pushing $6,000 for a 32GB machine. And this forum has a number of odd and annoying issues popping up with the iMac Pro.
 
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BlueTide

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2007
230
286
Silicon Valley, CA
The 512GB SSD is no slouch, and I wouldn't call getting it instead of the 1 TB a mistake. At least you do have the option of adding a super fast TB3 SSD later, when they certainly will be less expensive.

I'll second this. Of course it depends on how you use your computers, but to me, when the data starts to fill 512GB it is going to fill 1TB just as well. So I am better off finding other solutions anyway since having data collections split across two drives is no good.
 

Internet Enzyme

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 21, 2016
999
1,794
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...r-displays-and-more-coming-this-fall.2126988/

“iMac - Significant display performance upgrade alongside a processor upgrade.”

Wonder what they mean by display performance upgrade. Perhaps a higher refresh rate? 120Hz? HDR?

Processor upgrade is obvious. Coffee Lake CPUs.

No GPU upgrade, I assume? That would be kind of weak

I’m still going to be very happy with my machine coming next Tuesday. It feels nice to just bite the bullet and have an actual, tangible computer rather than just continue on with chasing the rumor mill into the sunset.
 
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enc0re

macrumors 6502
Jun 7, 2010
402
642
So let's talk upgrade specifics:

1. CPU: Coffee Lake obviously. Top model: 8700K? I'm actually expecting the rumored (i9?) 8-core part to show up here.
2. GPU: I'm hoping for Vega 56 in the top spec, perhaps BTO.
3. Display: 120Hz Promotion would be spiffy. Maybe HDR, but I doubt it.

Anything else? I don't expect a new form factor. I don't expect the iMac to switch to the iMac Pro cooling, although I would love that. Maybe Apple will adopt Intel Optane for Fusion Drives?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,984
12,950
That's quite possible. LG recently updated a few of its 27" monitors by adding HDR. Since they provide the display for the iMac I could see this being added this year.
Do you have a link for that? I just checked the LG Canada website and still looks like the bulk of their “HDR10” monitors are pseudo 10-bit, being actually 8-bit + FRC. The iMacs already have this.
 
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Glmnet1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2017
973
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Do you have a link for that? I just checked the LG Canada website and still looks like the bulk of their “HDR10” monitors are pseudo 10-bit, being actually 8-bit + FRC. The iMacs already have this.
It's still 8-bit +FRC but they added support for HDR games and media. I didn't read about the technicalities but you can look at the LG 27UK600-W, 27UK650-W and 27UK850-W if you want.
 

Internet Enzyme

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 21, 2016
999
1,794
Wouldn’t it be great if they released an iMac with full rec.2020 color gamut? Thats many years off, as I dont believe there is a single production monitor available no matter the price that can display that. I am curious how long it will take for rec.2020 to match srgb/rec.709 in ubiquity
 

tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
699
UK
Remember these are still mid range and don’t expect too much just setting yourself up for disappointment.
 

Glmnet1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2017
973
1,093
At least with a release in October it'll be almost a year since the release of the iMac Pro. That and a possible Mac Pro announcement would give more room for performance improvements without threatening the high end products.
 

fathergll

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2014
1,852
1,612
What a tease saying that the display will be a significant upgrade. That could mean a lot of things. Doesn't rule out a redesign or it could stay the same.
 

zedsdead

macrumors 68040
Jun 20, 2007
3,438
1,252
What a tease saying that the display will be a significant upgrade. That could mean a lot of things. Doesn't rule out a redesign or it could stay the same.

It also could be HDR, promotion, more knits, different screen size (such as 32" 8k, although that seems like an iMac Pro product first)...anything of the sort. It is without a doubt that the iMac is LONG overdue for a redesign (current form factor is from 2012).
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,984
12,950
It's still 8-bit +FRC but they added support for HDR games and media. I didn't read about the technicalities but you can look at the LG 27UK600-W, 27UK650-W and 27UK850-W if you want.
I don’t understand. I don’t see how that’s any different than what was offered before in terms of the technology as it applies to Macs. The standalone LG screens are still pseudo 10-bit - 8-bit + FRC, but now they will accept and understand HDR10 signals from devices plugged in. However, it's not as if you're going to be plugging an HDR10 device into the iMac. Any HDR10 content would be local file playback or streaming. The Mac would be doing the decoding and passing the decoded signal to the screen.

Maybe this is a software solution? The new iMacs will finally allow 4K HDR10 streaming support, but if they get it, from a technological point of view, the 2017 models could get it too, since it only needs Kaby Lake or later.

In fact, I've been predicting/hoping for a long time that 4K HDR10 streaming support would come in 2018, to all the 2017 or later Macs, except for the 2017 MacBook Air (although the 2017 MacBook could only display it in SDR).
 
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Glmnet1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2017
973
1,093
I don’t understand. I don’t see how that’s any different than what was offered before in terms of the technology as it applies to Macs. The standalone LG screens are still pseudo 10-bit - 8-bit + FRC, but now they will accept and understand HDR10 signals from devices plugged in. However, it's not as if you're going to be plugging an HDR10 device into the iMac. Any HDR10 content would be local file playback or streaming. The Mac would be doing the decoding and passing the decoded signal to the screen.

Maybe this is a software solution? The new iMacs will finally allow 4K HDR10 streaming support, but if they get it, from a technological point of view, the 2017 models could get it too, since it only needs Kaby Lake or later.

In fact, I've been predicting/hoping for a long time that 4K HDR10 streaming support would come in 2018, to all the 2017 or later Macs, except for the 2017 MacBook Air (although the 2017 MacBook could only display it in SDR).
I'm also confused but I just read quite a few articles about this and I'll try to explain what I learned.

- 10-bit or 8+2 AFRC bit is a requirement for the HDR10 standard, along with other specs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_video#HDR10). So a monitor can have 10-bits of colour depth without being HDR10 compliant but an HDR10 monitor must have at least 10-bit of colour depth.
- Being HDR10 compliant allows the monitor to display a higher contrast between the darkest point and the brightest point on screen simultaneously.
- It can be used by different medias, some of which are protected by HDCP 2.2 which the iMac is not compliant with since the 2017 version, thanks to the Kaby Lake iGPU.
- Yet, currently even non-protected HDR content such as illegally downloaded movies can't be displayed correctly on a 2017 iMac. Users report that the colours look dull and weird. I'm not sure if this is just a software limitation on macOS or if some specs of HDR10 are not met by the current iMac. Maybe someone with a better understanding of the HDR10 specs can shine some light on this. Can you play non-protected HDR content on a current iMac running Windows?

- Part of the HDR feature of the new LG monitors mentioned above is a feature called "HDR Effect" which modifies SDR content to make it look more like HDR content in real time. I haven't tried this but it sounds a little gimmicky. I doubt this will come to the iMac. (https://www.lg.com/ca_en/desktop-monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor)

I'm no expert and this post is the result of a few minutes of reading so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,984
12,950
I'm also confused but I just read quite a few articles about this and I'll try to explain what I learned.

- 10-bit or 8+2 AFRC bit is a requirement for the HDR10 standard, along with other specs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_video#HDR10). So a monitor can have 10-bits of colour depth without being HDR10 compliant but an HDR10 monitor must have at least 10-bit of colour depth.
This is a matter of the decoding.

I don't think this applies to an iMac.

- Being HDR10 compliant allows the monitor to display a higher contrast between the darkest point and the brightest point on screen simultaneously.
There is a difference between being truly HDR10 compliant vs. being able to decode HDR10 content.

I don't think the new LG monitors can achieve the nits necessary for full HDR10 compliance.

There are lots of displays out there that advertise HDR10 compatibility, but which do not actually meet the full spec requirements for HDR10 compliance. But that's OK, because they still often look quite decent.

- It can be used by different medias, some of which are protected by HDCP 2.2 which the iMac is not compliant with since the 2017 version, thanks to the Kaby Lake iGPU.
Yes. Aside from the MacBook Air, any 2017 Mac (even the MacBook) supports this already.

The iMac Pro has no iGPU but it appears Apple has implemented it on AMD Polaris for this model.

Interestingly, Apple chose to wait on the MacBook Y series chips many months after Kaby Lake Y came out before releasing a new MacBook. At first I didn't know why but then I realized it was because Apple waited for two things, both implemented in a new series of Kaby Lake Y chips:

1) A faster m3
2) HDCP 2.2 compliance across the line

The first set of Kaby Lake Y m3 chips were slow, and the first set of Kaby Lake Y didn't support HDCP 2.2 either. That didn't come until spring 2017, even though Kaby Lake Y came out in 2016.

This is one reason I believe Apple will likely eventually offer 4K streaming on 2017 Macs.

The good news is that my lowly 2017 12" MacBook Core m3 an play back some complex 4K videos with under 25% usage that a top-of-the-line 2015 iMac Core i7 6700K can't at 100% usage, using QuickTime, so it's clear Apple has already begun the implementation of this standard.

- Yet, currently even non-protected HDR content such as illegally downloaded movies can't be displayed correctly on a 2017 iMac. Users report that the colours look dull and weird. I'm not sure if this is just a software limitation on macOS or if some specs of HDR10 are not met by the current iMac. Maybe someone with a better understanding of the HDR10 specs can shine some light on this. Can you play non-protected HDR content on a current iMac running Windows?
Yes, according to reports, you can play non-protected HDR10 content with proper colours AND you can play protected 4K content on a current iMac running Windows.

I was hoping to see this support in 10.14 at WWDC. We didn't get that, but I am still keeping my fingers crossed for the fall or in the new year with Mojave.

- Part of the HDR feature of the new LG monitors mentioned above is a feature called "HDR Effect" which modifies SDR content to make it look more like HDR content in real time. I haven't tried this but it sounds a little gimmicky. I doubt this will come to the iMac. (https://www.lg.com/ca_en/desktop-monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor)
More important is the ability (for the MacBook) to convert HDR to SDR IMO. I have this setup in my home theatre. My projector is 1080p SDR, but I have a 4K UHD Blu-ray player to gain access to Dolby Atmos, since some studios refuse to release Dolby Atmos tracks on regular 1080p Blu-ray discs, even though it's already supported. I initially had a Philips player that was a decent player but did no HDR to SDR conversion, and yes indeed it looked awful. I then bought a Panasonic which has the same base engine it seems (as the Philips seems to be a rebranded Panasonic), but adds processing options to convert HDR to SDR on the fly with good results.

BTW, ironically, while UHD Blu-ray works fine sent to a 1080p projector, Netflix does not. 4K Netflix isn't an option but even 1080p Netflix doesn't work because HDCP 2.2 is missing, even though HDCP 2.2 is not required for 1080p. So, I went out and bought a 4K HDMI splitter which also strips the HDCP requirement and now I get my Netflix 1080p out of that player too.

1080p Netflix from a 1080p Blu-ray player works fine without HDCP 2.2. Why Netflix would program their app on 4K players to not work at all at any resolution (even 1080p) without HDCP 2.2 is beyond me. Lazy programming?

I'm no expert and this post is the result of a few minutes of reading so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!
Ditto. I'm no expert either. But these are the main points I think are true:

1) The existing iMacs are already pseudo 10-bit (8-bit plus FRC) but do not have the max brightness to be considered truly HDR10 compliant from that standpoint.
2) However, I don't think the newest LG monitors you listed meet those specs either.
3) All 2017 Macs except for the MacBook Air already support HDCP 2.2.
4) Hardware 4K HDR acceleration works well performance-wise on all 2017 Macs (except the MacBook Air), but we are still waiting to get the colours displayed correctly.
5) 4K HDR with proper colours and 4K DRM support are now waiting for the proper software support on macOS, as they already work on Windows on the iMac.
 
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JonJonG

macrumors newbie
Jul 11, 2018
3
1
I’ve been holding out for an iMac for a longggg time for my business. And ever since that foxcon insider report 8 months or so ago said the iMac would get redesigned in 2018 I’ve been holding out. Even if it’s minuscule I hope that’s what this means. Either way I’ll be fine even if it’s a spec upgrade. I have a 2017 MacBook Pro 15inch maxed out specs.. Come on Apple pleaseeeee!
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,233
418
Brooklyn, NY
I’ve been holding out for an iMac for a longggg time for my business. And ever since that foxcon insider report 8 months or so ago said the iMac would get redesigned in 2018 I’ve been holding out. Even if it’s minuscule I hope that’s what this means. Either way I’ll be fine even if it’s a spec upgrade. I have a 2017 MacBook Pro 15inch maxed out specs.. Come on Apple pleaseeeee!

Well if you were willing and able to wait 8 months you may as well just keep on waiting...
 
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