Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I think Apple moving over to AMD makes quite a lot of sense, to them at least. We had the 2008/2009 MacBook Pro GPU issues which NVidia said "Issue, what issue?" to. And they want to leverage as much support as possible for OpenCL, and AMD have historically had better support for this.

On the other hand, there was the x1900 cards in the Mac Pro, the defective 6970/6990 cards in the 2011 MacBook Pros etc, so AMD don't exactly have a perfect track record either.

Will be interesting to see if/when Apple include Fiji parts with their machines, or if they wait for the new line in 2016.
 
Perhaps if Apple started doing things RIGHT you wouldn't need to lie about 'endless putdowns' or 'hate'.
In my book, they do mostly things "right". YMMV with "right".
-1 for ad hominem.

Do you have a source for this? Or are you literally just making up facts to support your claims?
Personally I love reading about people who have been enlightened to the fact apple hardware is overpriced yet who continue to run OSX somehow...someway. You sound like the kind of person happy with a 5400rpm hdd. Not much credibility there.
Do you have a source for the assertion, that a "big bunch" of people think the nMP is a bad machine.

Also, since 1984, Mac were always "overpriced", at least if you compare them to IBM PC compatibles, solely on the specs.

I assume, that the people, who buy the smallest iMac just for their browser needs, are probably happy with a 5400rpm hdd. I wouldn't be, but I wouldn't buy this machine. So just because that one configuration doesn't fit your needs, doesn't mean, that Apple is doomed, stupid, off the rails and what not.

Not in the case of the Mac Pro. Sorry.
Why?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I assume, that the people, who buy the smallest iMac just for their browser needs, are probably happy with a 5400rpm hdd. I wouldn't be, but I wouldn't buy this machine. So just because that one configuration doesn't fit your needs, doesn't mean, that Apple is doomed, stupid, off the rails and what not.

I agree with you in principle, but not on the 5400rpm HDD's. Until two or three years ago, all base iMacs (and I believe Minis as well, but not sure) had 7200rpm HDD's.
Then for some inexplicable reason, Apple decided to downgrade them.

The only possible explanation I can think of? Greed.

Seriously, the 7200rpm HDD's cost just about next to nothing. Apple was already wildly profitable. Macs were profitable. I find it difficult to believe they needed to cost-cut on the iMac to meet their self-imposed required profit margins.

Ditto for 16GB base iPhones with no 32GB next-tier. 'Encourage' people to spring for 64GB model, or to opt into iCloud Storage subscription.
 
Last edited:
The only possible explanation I can think of? Greed.
I disagree. There could easily be thermal problems with 7200 rpm drives. They get hotter than 5400rpm.
It seems like everybody assumes, it could only be greed, now that Apple is successful again.
They are not exactly welfare, but they seem to generally have the interests of their customers in mind. Not in every instance it seems to work, but who doesn't make mistakes.
For example, Apple tries to protect my data, especially against governments. The greedy path would be to not care about my data and let governments just have at it.
 
I disagree. There could easily be thermal problems with 7200 rpm drives. They get hotter than 5400rpm.
It seems like everybody assumes, it could only be greed, now that Apple is successful again.
They are not exactly welfare, but they seem to generally have the interests of their customers in mind. Not in every instance it seems to work, but who doesn't make mistakes.
For example, Apple tries to protect my data, especially against governments. The greedy path would be to not care about my data and let governments just have at it.

Apple can fix thermal problems since they chose the design that would cause them and if that was really the problem they could have put even SATA3 SSD's in in the machine.

Apple tries to protect your data because it makes them look good in a market that's been showing it's butt recently, it's an effort to retain customers it adds no expense to keep you data safe.

These are both stretching a bit
 
Your Apple can do no wrong attitude is the main cause for the dregradation of discussion around here.

People bash the nMP because it's an expensive non-upgradable or serviceable computer that is less performing than the machine it replaced.

myself.. i think the dregadation happens because a lot of you place far too much emphasis on benchmark results as signifier of performance.

here's why benchmarks are stupid:

they tell you which component has less crappy speed.. note- they don't tell you which component is better.. they tell you which one is not as crappy.

benchmarks measure bottlenecks.. and they tell you how much waiting to expect when clogging up an avenue.
what they don't tell you is this-> "yes, you will wait.. or-- no, you will not wait"..
no matter what, you're waiting on something and waiting sucks.

say i move 20GB data in 4minutes.. then a geekbench player pipes in "pfft.. that's soo slow.. my thing does it in 2 minutes!"

the glitch in the bench player's thinking here is that they're now thinking their system is fast..
when, it's actually super slow.. it's not fast.. you're waiting 2minutes to move 20GB data.. it's freaking slow.. it's a tad less crappy than my score but still crappy nonetheless.

if a benchmark is a true indicator of your machine's performance/usability then your computing experience sounds miserable.. all you're doing is sitting around waiting on a computer to do something.. click something.. wait.. click something else.. wait.. do this.. wait.. do that.. wait.

and really, my experience has nothing like the above happening.. most (like- very high percentage most), of the things i do on a computer are instant or perceptibly instant.. what exactly are you all doing with your computers which sets you in this click&wait cycle? i honestly have a hard time believing anybody's workflow reflects the type of numbers/tests being shown by benchmarks.. they're irrelevant and and should only be used at a very basic level of judging a machine or assessing how a computer is going to react in real world scenarios..

another problem with benchmarks is they completely eliminate a user's ability/ideas/skill/knowledge/taste etcetc from the equation and puts judgement on a computer as if it's the computer creating the content.
very similar to tasting a new dish and wondering "how long did it have to sit in the oven for?".. and thinking something that cooked for 12 minutes is inherently better than something that cooked for 20minutes.. you've eliminated the chef entirely.. you've eliminated the hours of work required by the chef to do their thing as if none of their work is important and are only thinking the time in the oven.. the time when the chef is no longer working.. as the key factor in this new dish.

i'm sorry but i really do feel if one's main argument regarding computer performance is a benchmark score then it only shows how very little actual work you do on a computer.. because if you did actually work on the things then you'd know there are only minimal enhancements to be gained by a computer producing higher benchmark score..

until that particular benchmark gives an infinity score (or a score of zero when the smaller graph means faster) then you're waiting on whatever that particular benchmark is testing.. regardless of how 'good' your computer is, you're waiting..
an instant result is a game changer.. that's when the particular operation has now become good instead of crappy.. but once the technology behind a particular operation leads to instant results, it's no longer tested by the benchmark.. it's now a good thing but since benchmarks are only testing for crapness, it's not included in the test..
 
Last edited:
I disagree. There could easily be thermal problems with 7200 rpm drives. They get hotter than 5400rpm.
It seems like everybody assumes, it could only be greed, now that Apple is successful again.
They are not exactly welfare, but they seem to generally have the interests of their customers in mind. Not in every instance it seems to work, but who doesn't make mistakes.
For example, Apple tries to protect my data, especially against governments. The greedy path would be to not care about my data and let governments just have at it.

If Apple was genuinely worried about thermal problems they would have switched from AMD to nVidia before worrying about which rpm hard drive to install.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorn and tuxon86
myself.. i think the dregadation happens because a lot of you place far too much emphasis on benchmark results as signifier of performance.

here's why benchmarks are stupid:

they tell you which component has less crappy speed.. note- they don't tell you which component is better.. they tell you which one is not as crappy.

benchmarks measure bottlenecks.. and they tell you how much waiting to expect when clogging up an avenue.
what they don't tell you is this-> "yes, you will wait.. or-- no, you will not wait"..
no matter what, you're waiting on something and waiting sucks.

say i move 20GB data in 4minutes.. then a geekbench player pipes in "pfft.. that's soo slow.. my thing does it in 2 minutes!"

the glitch in the bench player's thinking here is that they're now thinking their system is fast..
when, it's actually super slow.. it's not fast.. you're waiting 2minutes to move 20GB data.. it's freaking slow.. it's a tad less crappy than my score but still crappy nonetheless.

if a benchmark is a true indicator of your machine's performance/usability then your computing experience sounds miserable.. all you're doing is sitting around waiting on a computer to do something.. click something.. wait.. click something else.. wait.. do this.. wait.. do that.. wait.

and really, my experience has nothing like the above happening.. most (like- very high percentage most), of the things i do on a computer are instant or perceptibly instant.. what exactly are you all doing with your computers which sets you in this click&wait cycle? i honestly have a hard time believing anybody's workflow reflects the type of numbers/tests being shown by benchmarks.. they're irrelevant and and should only be used at a very basic level of judging a machine or assessing how a computer is going to react in real world scenarios..

another problem with benchmarks is they completely eliminate a user's ability/ideas/skill/knowledge/taste etcetc from the equation and puts judgement on a computer as if it's the computer creating the content.
very similar to tasting a new dish and wondering "how long did it have to sit in the oven for?".. and thinking something that cooked for 12 minutes is inherently better than something that cooked for 20minutes.. you've eliminated the chef entirely.. you've eliminated the hours of work required by the chef to do their thing as if none of their work is important and are only thinking the time in the oven.. the time when the chef is no longer working.. as the key factor in this new dish.

i'm sorry but i really do feel if one's main argument regarding computer performance is a benchmark score then it only shows how very little actual work you do on a computer.. because if you did actually work on the things then you'd know there are only minimal enhancements to be gained by a computer producing higher benchmark score..

until that particular benchmark gives an infinity score (or a score of zero when the smaller graph means faster) then you're waiting on whatever that particular benchmark is testing.. regardless of how 'good' your computer is, you're waiting..
an instant result is a game changer.. that's when the particular operation has now become good instead of crappy.. but once the technology behind a particular operation leads to instant results, it's no longer tested by the benchmark.. it's now a good thing but since benchmarks are only testing for crapness, it's not included in the test..

A whole lot of text to say actually nothing...
 
Apple can fix thermal problems since they chose the design that would cause them and if that was really the problem they could have put even SATA3 SSD's in in the machine.
They did. For the entry model they used a 5400rpm HDD. If you want a SSD, there is a configuration for it.

Apple tries to protect your data because it makes them look good in a market that's been showing it's butt recently, it's an effort to retain customers it adds no expense to keep you data safe.
Yes, that's correct. But still it's more work and thus yields a smaller profit. If greed would be the main driver for Apple, what would be the most plausible outcome in your mind?

These are both stretching a bit
No, it's not. My whole point is that the whole critique, that "Apple is too greedy, so they <insert favorite gripe>", is not the only reason, things are what they are.
 
They did. For the entry model they used a 5400rpm HDD. If you want a SSD, there is a configuration for it.

An overpriced option... Eh if you feel good paying extra for thing that should in 2015 come standard, go for it.
 
An overpriced option... Eh if you feel good paying extra for thing that should in 2015 come standard, go for it.
Once again, everything that Apple sells is and always was overpriced, if you only compare it statwise with beige boxes from Walmart.
 
Once again, everything that Apple sells is and always was overpriced, if you only compare it statwise with beige boxes from Walmart.

So you're ok to pay more for the same **** that is in every other brand of computer...
 
maybe.. what are the advantages.. i modeled (rhino) for around 6hrs today on a mbp with 750m.. tonight and this weekend, i'll be producing a set of renders (indigo) for a proposal using a computer with a 780m.. (with the mbp as a slave during the crunching)

so, what dreamy computer with advanced gpus in there should i be using.. and how is this dreamy computer going to help me and benefit me? would my 6hr day of been shorter earlier? will i not have to do anything tonight if i have advanced gpu tech that not currently available in my current hardware?

if you're saying i can take sunday off this weekend because of some new GPU tech then by all means, tell me what to buy and i'll go buy it.

if you say i'm missing out on some benefits then please enlighten me.. and i'm not even trying some underhanded comment by saying that.. i really do want benefits of technology and/or i'm always on the look out for improving the flow.
so, what are the benefits i'm missing out on?


Maybe with better performing GPUs you could design two skateboard ramp in a day instead of one :p

fwiw, i do other stuff too.
without doing too much name dropping, i just finished up a design/build project with chanel haute couture.

not that changes anything but still.. it sometimes sucks around here how disrespectful people are of others who are completely passionate about their work and who've committed years upon years to honing their craft (or in context of this forum-- honing their software skills).. then to have some geek armchair quarterback start talking the way many of you do.. some of you all are just plain old nerds.. and not nerds in the cool/ironic sense either.
 
maybe.. what are the advantages.. i modeled (rhino) for around 6hrs today on a mbp with 750m.. tonight and this weekend, i'll be producing a set of renders (indigo) for a proposal using a computer with a 780m.. (with the mbp as a slave during the crunching)

so, what dreamy computer with advanced gpus in there should i be using.. and how is this dreamy computer going to help me and benefit me? would my 6hr day of been shorter earlier? will i not have to do anything tonight if i have advanced gpu tech that not currently available in my current hardware?

if you're saying i can take sunday off this weekend because of some new GPU tech then by all means, tell me what to buy and i'll go buy it.

if you say i'm missing out on some benefits then please enlighten me.. and i'm not even trying some underhanded comment by saying that.. i really do want benefits of technology and/or i'm always on the look out for improving the flow.
so, what are the benefits i'm missing out on?




fwiw, i do other stuff too.
without doing too much name dropping, i just finished up a design/build project with chanel haute couture.

not that changes anything but still.. it sometimes sucks around here how disrespectful people are of others who are completely passionate about their work and who've committed years upon years to honing their craft (or in context of this forum-- honing their software skills).. then to have some geek armchair quarterback start talking the way many of you do.. some of you all are just plain old nerds.. and not nerds in the cool/ironic sense either.

In short you're doing artistic stuff while most of us are talking production/engineering stuff...
You can take your time and wait for your piece to render, but in the industry time is money and other can't start their job until yours is finished, so... You see for us we need more powerful hardware.
 
It's possible Apple will ditch AMD too.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/co...anges-in-mind-for-the-new-macbook-pro-1302359

According to Barefeats, those new 3xx iMacs also hit the 100˚C mark under stress, so I'm sure Apple is eager to ditch those if Skylake can push the pixels.

Mac Pro might be the last Mac to use discrete graphics. Unless Apple decides to exit the Pro market completely...

Aren't discrete gpus an upsell? Why abandon them at the high end for "good enough" performance?
 
It's possible Apple will ditch AMD too.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/co...anges-in-mind-for-the-new-macbook-pro-1302359

According to Barefeats, those new 3xx iMacs also hit the 100˚C mark under stress, so I'm sure Apple is eager to ditch those if Skylake can push the pixels.

Mac Pro might be the last Mac to use discrete graphics. Unless Apple decides to exit the Pro market completely...

All the more reason to build a hackintosh. Pathetic on apple's part to alienate so many potential buyers.
 
maybe.. what are the advantages.. i modeled (rhino) for around 6hrs today on a mbp with 750m.. tonight and this weekend, i'll be producing a set of renders (indigo) for a proposal using a computer with a 780m.. (with the mbp as a slave during the crunching)

so, what dreamy computer with advanced gpus in there should i be using.. and how is this dreamy computer going to help me and benefit me? would my 6hr day of been shorter earlier? will i not have to do anything tonight if i have advanced gpu tech that not currently available in my current hardware?

if you're saying i can take sunday off this weekend because of some new GPU tech then by all means, tell me what to buy and i'll go buy it.

if you say i'm missing out on some benefits then please enlighten me.. and i'm not even trying some underhanded comment by saying that.. i really do want benefits of technology and/or i'm always on the look out for improving the flow.
so, what are the benefits i'm missing out on?




fwiw, i do other stuff too.
without doing too much name dropping, i just finished up a design/build project with chanel haute couture.

not that changes anything but still.. it sometimes sucks around here how disrespectful people are of others who are completely passionate about their work and who've committed years upon years to honing their craft (or in context of this forum-- honing their software skills).. then to have some geek armchair quarterback start talking the way many of you do.. some of you all are just plain old nerds.. and not nerds in the cool/ironic sense either.

I'm sorry, were you trying to make a point? I see an awful lot of words, no thoughts.

Here is how to figure out a rough estimate of how much time could be saved by a faster GPU for renders.

If a 780m takes 1 hour to render something then a card that works twice as fast will take.....wait for it....half as long. In this case that would be 1/2 hour instead of 1 hour. If you would like further clarification, please just ask an intelligible question.

If your jobs are simple enough to not require rendering or are happening in real time, then what you have is fast enough for your uses. You may even be able to get by with an iPad.

There are PLENTY of places to read about the benefits of GPGPU computing and it has certainly come a long way in the 4 (four, quatro, quatre) years since the nMP GPUs were introduced.
 
I'm sorry, were you trying to make a point? I see an awful lot of words, no thoughts.

Here is how to figure out a rough estimate of how much time could be saved by a faster GPU for renders.

If a 780m takes 1 hour to render something then a card that works twice as fast will take.....wait for it....half as long. In this case that would be 1/2 hour instead of 1 hour. If you would like further clarification, please just ask an intelligible question.

ok.. here's my question - what software are you talking about?

you're talking about numbers that don't even exist yet.. everybody, except like 3 people, are rendering on cpu still.. some with gpu assist.. but pure gpu rendering is not widespread yet.. the software isn't ready but it's definitely coming.. soon

when it's ready, your 1/2 hour vs 1 hour thing isn't going to make any sense.. and your 'buy my awesome gpu for 2x speed!!!' pitch sounds a bit weak.. it doesn't sound as enticing as 'download version x.y.z and experience 25x speed increase.

your argument is then going to switch from 1/2hr instead of 1hr ..to.. 1 minute instead of 2 minutes.

(and that ties back into the stupid thing about benchmarks.. right now you're thinking 'my computer smokes yours at 30minutes instead of 1hr.. my computer is fassst!!"

it's not fast.. 30minutes sucks..
when it gets to real time physically simulated -- then -- you have a game changer.. until that time, you're just going to be screwing around with numbers that spit out at you when you play geekbench.. 30 minutes ago, you were saying 30minute render is awesome.. and now your argument would be-- "2minutes is sooo slow!"
it's just does't say anything about using the computer.. it only serves as a means to pit one computer vs another in some sort of deathmatch 2000.. it's a game. it's not real. like wwf)


If your jobs are simple enough to not require rendering or are happening in real time, then what you have is fast enough for your uses. You may even be able to get by with an iPad.

i'd be hyped if i could use an ipad..
not yet but for sure, ipad (etal) is precursor to a game changer..

There are PLENTY of places to read about the benefits of GPGPU computing and it has certainly come a long way in the 4 (four, quatro, quatre) years since the nMP GPUs were introduced.
seriously, you should go visit those places and read about it.
gpgpu has not arrived.. it's coming though. and the mp is prepared for it.
 
Aren't discrete gpus an upsell? Why abandon them at the high end for "good enough" performance?

Yeah that's what would perplex me too. Right now Apple's most expensive machines have the option for discrete, everything else doesn't. Wouldn't seem to make much sense to ditch them entirely. With that said, I'm sure with the 27" iMacs Apple will switch most of the SKUs to integrated graphics once the onboard graphics can handle it.
 
It's not about just a single 1 hour vs 30 minute session and the difference that makes per se. Multiply that by X number of times per day, times Y days per week spent doing rendering or computing jobs.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.