No more nvidia chips in Apple's computer line

[flat five]

It's not about just a single 1 hour vs 30 minute session and the difference that makes per se. Multiply that by X number of times per day, times Y days per week spent doing rendering or computing jobs.

you want to know something crazy?

you guys are sitting here telling me (teaching me?) about the crap i do every week.. like for my career.. all the while, you don't even do the stuff you're telling me about.

if you're interested in the topic, you'd be far better off asking me questions instead of telling me answers.
(srry, i don't know how else to say it.)

 

[MacVidCards]

you're talking about numbers that don't even exist yet.. everybody, except like 3 people, are rendering on cpu still.. some with gpu assist.. but pure gpu rendering is not widespread yet.. the software isn't ready

Says the guy who has spent 2 1/2 years spewing endless praise for the Dual GPU nMP and saying we were all crazy for wishing for more CPUs. Waffle much?

Try to keep your gibberish straight, I know I can't but someone should at least try.

To help, here is some of it from 2013:

.
a little something from a chat with the head dev of my rendering app.
the current openCL implementation is more of a 'gpu accelerated' type of deal or that the gpu more/less assists the cpu.. when i enable it on my 5770, i'm seeing 2-3x speed ups in certain modes/lighting..
and it appears as if it's going to keep getting better and better

there are a handful of rendering programs which run entirely on gpu(s) producing great images at a fraction of the time as their predecessors.. fully noticeable jumps instead of what you'd see if going from ,say, 8core cpu to 16core cpu.................................

Here is some from 2014:

just an example of why the nmp has dual gpu/single cpu..
...adding more cores was a possibility but it's just way too expensive for most people and not very many apps (relatively speaking) can take advantage of it anyway..

See, 2 years ago you were saying something completely different from what you are saying now. How those waffles tasting?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

The six core D500 nMP beats my 12 Core x5690 cMP (with GTX980) by 30% in Adobe Media Encoder 4K renders. I benched them this week for PowerMac G5 Mike. The 12 core D700 nMP would easily be twice as fast as my machine. The nMP may have oldish GPUs, doesn't have internal expansion, but the performance is excellent...It should just cost much less when you can build a quite cheap PC that does the same.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Says the guy who has spent 2 1/2 years spewing endless praise for the Dual GPU nMP and saying we were all crazy for wishing for more CPUs. Waffle much?

Try to keep your gibberish straight, I know I can't but someone should at least try.

To help, here is some of it from 2013:





Here is some from 2014:




See, 2 years ago you were saying something completely different from what you are saying now. How those waffles tasting?

LOL, nailed it.

 

[flat five]

Says the guy who has spent 2 1/2 years spewing endless praise for the Dual GPU nMP and saying we were all crazy for wishing for more CPUs. Waffle much?

Try to keep your gibberish straight, I know I can't but someone should at least try.

To help, here is some of it from 2013:





Here is some from 2014:




See, 2 years ago you were saying something completely different from what you are saying now. How those waffles tasting?

i don't know what to tell you.. none of the stuff i said prior is contradicting what i'm saying now.. it's the same stuff.. the software isn't ready yet. (i mean, that's the entire reason i didn't buy a 6.1.. there isn't really software for it yet.)

your entire basis of conversation with me has devolved into a series of ad hominem attacks.. while i don't think a.h. arguments automatically 'lose', i do think when used the way you're using them, it's simply ridiculous.. at the very least, your goal when trying to argue like that should be to make me/myself/my character, look bad/stupid/etc but even that's not working out for you.. you're making yourself look a fool.
try something else.

 

[flat five]

In short you're doing artistic stuff while most of us are talking production/engineering stuff...
You can take your time and wait for your piece to render, but in the industry time is money and other can't start their job until yours is finished, so... You see for us we need more powerful hardware.

how am i, in short, doing artistic stuff as opposed to production/engineering? where are you getting this info?

here's more on the chanel project i mentioned:
the concept of gaming for this year's rollout, the artistic stuff, was done by chanel designers prior to me being hired for the build.. the skill set they sought was production/engineering stuff.. not artistic stuff.

they give me a basic shell of their idea (can't post their images)..

i engineer the things.. figure out how to build them..



produce/generate cnc files etc:




then actually build them:





then deliver:



(ever wonder what a million dollars worth of clothes looks like?) here:




................
my personal work, the stuff i truly love doing.. sure, it's artistic.. but i imagine you're capable of seeing the importance of engineering involved:




-------------

another example.. here's a barge which was floated through nyc harbor and docked at various locations throughout the city.. portable skatepark..
(video)

surely you can imagine you don't just show up in nyc harbor with a 400' barge with active deck without jumping though some serious hoops and having virtually every committee (fire/engineering/security/etc) in town being involved.. these plans went through various nyc engineering firms.. how many recommendations/changes were made by them? exactly zero.. the design was well engineered at the point it was proposed.


------
also, not really sure what the heck you're taking about 'engineers need powerful computers for renders'.. engineers generally don't need to produce physically accurate /raytraced images.. in fact, those can sometimes detract from the info they need to communicate.. a rendered viewport will certainly suffice and, in fact, be the more appropriate visual to use.. something like:


that's a screenshot of a live viewport.. just openGL stuff.. it's a live model and i can work with that exact look.. not a render at all in context of the topic.. engineers are hype on that look.. a mbp handles it completely fine.


-------

i don't know.. am i an engineer? an artist? a producer?
probably not.
i'm a craftsman.. a craftsman is all of those things.

and the computer is simply another one of my tools (though it is the most expensive tool i own and definitely took the most effort to learn.. my current computer cost about $7500 ; ) )

 

[avkdm]

Full of our own self importance aren't we?

 

[flat five]

Full of our own self importance aren't we?

maybe to an extent.. sure.

i don't know what else to say though.. probably just saying nothing is best but so what, you know?.

there are a series of posts here and other threads (some of which i see have been modded out today) with people telling me what i do and how to use a computer or what types of computers are necessary for such&such use

i'm like- look, that's not right.
which goes completely ignored then i say again.. hey, i do these things you're talking about. what you're saying isn't real.

which goes completely ignored so i get directed to books i need to read.. and i've read them already

which goes completely ignored so i get lessons on how to improve rendering workflow (which, by the way.. was completely out of whack ... so i'm like "it doesn't work that way.. there's more to it than a benchmark"

andonandon.. nobody listens.

so i made the picture post in the spirt of an all caps post saying.. hey, i really do-> do these things.. can you hear me now?

and i guess it worked because the cad conversations have stopped.



but yeah, there is some ego or whatever in there too.
sorry

 

[Bubba Satori]

Wow, some serious OCD right there, by golly.

 

[flat five]

huh? i'm failing to make the connection you're attempting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_disorder

are you sure you're using the right words to describe your feelings?
can you rephrase the stab?

 

[linuxcooldude]

The six core D500 nMP beats my 12 Core x5690 cMP (with GTX980) by 30% in Adobe Media Encoder 4K renders. I benched them this week for PowerMac G5 Mike. The 12 core D700 nMP would easily be twice as fast as my machine. The nMP may have oldish GPUs, doesn't have internal expansion, but the performance is excellent...It should just cost much less when you can build a quite cheap PC that does the same.

Its nice to see real world usage instead of just benchmarks. 30% increase is a bit surprising since Premiere Pro seems to favor Nvidia rather then AMD. But I also know Adobe did add support for the nMP. I currently have the 6 core D700 version with FCPX and it indeed is faster during editing.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Its nice to see real world usage instead of just benchmarks. 30% increase is a bit surprising since Premiere Pro seems to favor Nvidia rather then AMD. But I also know Adobe did add support for the nMP. I currently have the 6 core D700 version with FCPX and it indeed is faster during editing.

That was an OpenCL comparison, but I did a CUDA vs OpenCL render test on my cMP with Media Encoder on El Capitan too. The same score +/- 2 seconds. I'll do a more complete test to compare OS X (OpenCL and CUDA) against Windows (CUDA only). Both on my cMP because we aren't dual booting the nMP at work. I predict Windows CUDA will be 25% faster than OSX's CUDA. Certainly playback and scrubbing is so much faster on Windows too.

 

[Asgorath]

That was an OpenCL comparison, but I did a CUDA vs OpenCL render test on my cMP with Media Encoder on El Capitan too. The same score +/- 2 seconds. I'll do a more complete test to compare OS X (OpenCL and CUDA) against Windows (CUDA only). Both on my cMP because we aren't dual booting the nMP at work. I predict Windows CUDA will be 25% faster than OSX's CUDA. Certainly playback and scrubbing is so much faster on Windows too.

Just to clarify, you're comparing 2 GPUs to 1 GPU, right? If that's the case, I'm not surprised that the nMP wins.

 

[JoSch]

So you're ok to pay more for the same **** that is in every other brand of computer...

APPLE.COMPUTERS.ARE.NOT.THE.SAME.*****

 

[lowendlinux]

APPLE.COMPUTERS.ARE.NOT.THE.SAME.*****

What's different other than OSX

 

[JoSch]

In short you're doing artistic stuff while most of us are talking production/engineering stuff...
You can take your time and wait for your piece to render, but in the industry time is money and other can't start their job until yours is finished, so... You see for us we need more powerful hardware.

So, you mean for artists time is not money, because they live of air.

All the more reason to build a hackintosh. Pathetic on apple's part to alienate so many potential buyers.

1. They don't alienate me.
2. They seem to be doing pretty good, alienating so many potential buyers.

What's different other than OSX

Again? We have discussed that ad nauseam.
For me, one of the most important advantage is the durability. I still have my MB13 Late 2008. I have an MBP 2008.
They still work. They still are in good condition. It's the longest time, I have an notebook. All the other PC notebook, I had self-destructed by breaking apart.
That's added value, which you have to invest in.

 

[lowendlinux]

Again? We have discussed that ad nauseam.
For me, one of the most important advantage is the durability. I still have my MB13 Late 2008. I have an MBP 2008.
They still work. They still are in good condition. It's the longest time, I have an notebook. All the other PC notebook, I had self-destructed by breaking apart.
That's added value, which you have to invest in.

And I have latitudes from the same era, that cost the same as and in some cases more than MBP's . You get quality by going up in price point not by choosing Apple.

 

[bladerunner2000]

1. They don't alienate me.

You're own experience has NOTHING to do with the experiences of those who have been alienated by Apple.

2. They seem to be doing pretty good, alienating so many potential buyers.

This is misleading. Apple is doing well because of the iPhone. Again, nothing to do with the state of the Mac Pro.

 

[zephonic]

No, Mac sales have been going up as well.

Only iPad and iPod sales have decreased.

 

[zephonic]

Full of our own self importance aren't we?

I don't see it that way. He gets called out, and he responds by showing what he does. He could have been a little more brief, but his reaction did not strike me as chest-thumping.

 

[mcnallym]

You're own experience has NOTHING to do with the experiences of those who have been alienated by Apple.



This is misleading. Apple is doing well because of the iPhone. Again, nothing to do with the state of the Mac Pro.

Well if you want to go with that then YOUR experience has NOTHING to do with People who haven't been alienated. Why do you feel the need to ram your alienation it at other people who haven't been bothered by Apples changes.

If you aren't interested in there experience then why do you expect other people to be interested in yours?

 

[lowendlinux]

Well if you want to go with that then YOUR experience has NOTHING to do with People who haven't been alienated. Why do you feel the need to ram your alienation it at other people who haven't been bothered by Apples changes.

If you aren't interested in there experience then why do you expect other people to be interested in yours?

I dunno if he believes others should listen, he's as convinced of his rightness as much as the other side is of theirs. IMHO he's fighting fire with fire which as we all know always works out

I really wish the religious on both sides just at times kept stuff to themselves, I've fought enough wars at this point whether they be Mac v PC or otherwise to be kinda tired. MVC is right, FF is right, SC is right, LCD is right but they all talk past each other.

 

[h9826790]

For me, one of the most important advantage is the durability.

Unfortunately, that's not the case for me. My wife's 1st gen MBA is broken apart in less than 5 years because the battery is getting "thicker and thicker". TBH, eventually I have to ask her to stop using it because it looks like the battery may explode at anytime (the trackpad is not a flat surface anymore).

On the other hand, my IBM Thinkpad still working now. Even though the battery can last for no more than 10min now, but it's still working flawlessly with AC power. And it's so easy to buy a new battery to replace it.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

It might be possible to get DX12 Explicit Multi Display Adapter working in a cMP with Boot Camp. But then OS X might not boot.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9740/directx-12-geforce-plus-radeon-mgpu-preview

 

[goMac]

But then OS X might not boot.

What about OS X? It looks like this should work with any existing DX12 class hardware. No hardware changes required.

OS X already has a very similar capability, but developers doesn't typically use it. I believe Civ V was supposed to support Apple's multi GPU render on OS X.