Official "Waiting for Santa Rosa" thread.

[Shackler]

i asked this already but know one replied

i dont even know if this question makes sense but here goes...

will santa rosa affect battery life in the MB. if yes how much better will it be?
in general how much of an increase in battery life can we expect with a hardware upgrade?

 

[Erasmus]

Will Apple have enough time to put it into the MBPs?

After all Apple unlike other OEMs design their own logic boards by themselves. They are going to require months and months of testing before the new revision is even ready to ship.

My prediction? The next update will just see a speed bump, all the cool technologies (robson, LED displays, new GPU) will come with Leopard.

Cries...
Hopefully, Apple have had samples for a few months to design new MBPs around, just like they've had SR for a few months...

What we really want is an nVidia GPU instead of a **** ATi one.

Ummm, what the hell? Where did this come from??? What's wrong with ATI??? In my opinion, it's nvidia that sucks... They can't even get their drivers working properly... And they use inferior manufacturing processes and technologies.

 

[iW00t]

i asked this already but know one replied

i dont even know if this question makes sense but here goes...

will santa rosa affect battery life in the MB. if yes how much better will it be?
in general how much of an increase in battery life can we expect with a hardware upgrade?

Santa Rosa probably won't help much, but the new LED backlit displays would help tremendously.

 

[Furrybeagle]

That used to be the way in the old times, but recently they have announced mbp, atv and iPhone well before they were/are available.
Apple also used to be the first to use new tech; they offered dvd-r very early, but now have delayed many new technologies (like brd & esata).

From what I’ve observed, the only products they will announce ahead of time are redesigned/new products, usually at an keynote/special event. Speed bumps are available the day they are announced.

As for BRDs, I don't think Apple will offer one or the other definitively until the BluRay vs. HDDVD situation pans out. As for eSATA... that could be likely in a redesigned MBP. So let's hope they wait a bit longer and announce new MBPs at WWDC.

 

[Episteme]

Ummm, what the hell? Where did this come from??? What's wrong with ATI??? In my opinion, it's nvidia that sucks... They can't even get their drivers working properly... And they use inferior manufacturing processes and technologies.

... whereas ATI seem to be constantly delaying their product, presumably due to technical problems ...

I'm agnostic. I don't care if it's ATI or nVidia. I just want something better than the X1600.

However, recent history might suggest that nVidia is more likely... the 24" iMac and the Apple TV both went with nVidia parts. I did wonder if that might be connected with AMD buying ATI. The only recently system which used ATI was the option for the Mac Pro, and that's a separate card anyway...

Of course, it could just be who offered the cheapest part at the time, too...

 

[Episteme]

Santa Rosa probably won't help much, but the new LED backlit displays would help tremendously.

Intel Turbo Memory (if used) and the new variable speed FSB might help, but I've not seen recent TDP for Crestline. The early ES versions were significantly higher than 945. So, if there's no LED backlighting, SR could actually be slightly worse on the juice.

Of course, we also don't know which GPU will be used -- but most new parts appear to be higher than the 17W quoted for the X1600, too...

 

[toke lahti]

I would just love to buy a computer with years of upgrade ahead.

I would love to buy a computer that doesn't need upgrading right after the purchace.

A lot of people really do just use computers for work and see it as a tool. They are not posting here I feel...

Some people really need an upgrade for work.
Mbp hasn't really changed after its initial announcement Jan 2006.
Just a little cpu bumb and getting back fw800, which they took first away.
Meanwhile video industry has changed. It's all about HD now. For a laptop to be futureproof in video work it really needs brd drive. Hdd's have got a lot faster in recent 2 years, so fw is outdated and esata should be the norm.

I just hope that Apple still cares about computers a bit after all ipod+atv+iphones, so that they will really release an upgrade at WWDC. But you'll never know...

 

[toke lahti]

As for BRDs, I don't think Apple will offer one or the other definitively until the BluRay vs. HDDVD situation pans out.

For computers, hd-dvd hasn't never been a real option. Does recordable hd-dvd drives even still exist?
And for htpc use, brd movies are selling now double what hd-dvd sells, so I think the war is very soon over...

 

[diamond.g]

Intel Turbo Memory (if used) and the new variable speed FSB might help, but I've not seen recent TDP for Crestline. The early ES versions were significantly higher than 945. So, if there's no LED backlighting, SR could actually be slightly worse on the juice.

Of course, we also don't know which GPU will be used -- but most new parts appear to be higher than the 17W quoted for the X1600, too...

Is that 17W full tilt? The 7900 GO GS is 20W full tilt.

With power profiles I don't know why Apple couldn't stick a 7950GTX in the MBP. By the time you get to full tilt power wise your fans are probably already going full speed. I am pretty sure the GPU runs at 100mhz when on battery savings profile. So your wattage shouldn't be too different from the X1600.


Oh and you guys should want Nvidia GPU's in your systems. Nvidia has had a history of better OpenGL support. The biggest grip with OpenGL that I have heard is not knowing when using a certain feature throws you back into compatibility mode (ie using CPU to draw stuff).

 

[slffl]

I'm just waiting for ANYTHiNG new to come out.

I really don't want a 1920x1200 display unless the resolution independence in Leopard is outstanding. Otherwise a 17" is too small.

Also, I hope they either wait on the HD optical unless they come out with a hybrid or wait until one is dead. And hopefully the winner isn't blu-ray as I have boycotted Sony.

 

[Pressure]

Is that 17W full tilt? The 7900 GO GS is 20W full tilt.

With power profiles I don't know why Apple couldn't stick a 7950GTX in the MBP. By the time you get to full tilt power wise your fans are probably already going full speed. I am pretty sure the GPU runs at 100mhz when on battery savings profile. So your wattage shouldn't be too different from the X1600.

Oh and you guys should want Nvidia GPU's in your systems. Nvidia has had a history of better OpenGL support. The biggest grip with OpenGL that I have heard is not knowing when using a certain feature throws you back into compatibility mode (ie using CPU to draw stuff).

Why should we want anything less than a OpenGL 2.1 capable card?

And do you have any data to substantiate this regarding OpenGL in Mac OS X?

I have a feeling you are speaking of Windows-based experiences.

 

[koobcamuk]

... And hopefully the winner isn't blu-ray as I have boycotted Sony.

Does that mean you've boycotted many Apple batteries and ran your laptops off the mains only?

Anyway, yes, I will hold off until there's something a little more groundbreaking than a DVD burner and 3GB RAM...

 

[Episteme]

Is that 17W full tilt? The 7900 GO GS is 20W full tilt.

That'd be the 7900GS, not the GTX.

I've seen that figure for the GS around, but I'm skeptical. Compare the hardware to its bigger brothers in the 7900 range and it appears to be quite a lot more than half of a GTX yet is being quoted as having less than half the power usage.

Given there's no process advantage or the like, this seems unlikely, since normally doubling a design doesn't double the power requirements...

Of course, it could just be like the Intel vs AMD method of measuring TDP -- AMD's is peak, Intel's is average draw. Apples to oranges, and all that...

With power profiles I don't know why Apple couldn't stick a 7950GTX in the MBP. By the time you get to full tilt power wise your fans are probably already going full speed. I am pretty sure the GPU runs at 100mhz when on battery savings profile. So your wattage shouldn't be too different from the X1600.

Bear in mind the X1600 already does this and yet in the 15" MBP, Apple still underclocks it.

Oh and you guys should want Nvidia GPU's in your systems. Nvidia has had a history of better OpenGL support. The biggest grip with OpenGL that I have heard is not knowing when using a certain feature throws you back into compatibility mode (ie using CPU to draw stuff).

That's pretty much down to drivers. It'd be interesting to know if Apple lets the IHV write the opengl drivers or if they write their own.

I'm still hardware agnostic.

On a totally different note, I do wonder if the LCD backlights come to fruition, will that allow a much better GPU due to a) much lower LCD power draw and b) LED-backlit displays are MUCH thinner.

That might make things more viable.

Even then, I would hope a Go 8xxx or X2xxx HD part would show up in time. I know ATI supposedly has a May date on delivery, but hitting ship dates appears to not be ATI's strong point these days...

 

[Episteme]

Why should we want anything less than a OpenGL 2.1 capable card?

Unfortunately the X3000 -- the new Intel integrated graphics -- is listed by Intel as OpenGL 1.5.

There's been talk that its capable of more, but none of that is currently exposed in the drivers, and it's Intel's implied it might not be.

Of course, none of this affects the MBP GPU, so it's really just an aside.

 

[GoxKok]

LIkely...

It seems unlikely to me that Apple would release such ground a groundbreaking hardware redesign as LED backlights or BluRay or Flash HDD only ONE YEAR after the PowerBook got it's redesign. The powerbook was around for many many years before being upgraded to the MBP, which didnt even give THAT big of a redesign when you get down to it.

*Grabs the fire extinguisher and cowers in the corner*

 

[Episteme]

For computers, hd-dvd hasn't never been a real option. Does recordable hd-dvd drives even still exist?
And for htpc use, brd movies are selling now double what hd-dvd sells, so I think the war is very soon over...

The war's barely begun and currently irrelevant.

For example, I recently saw an article that mentioned HD-DVD and Blu-Ray combined had shipped around 1.2million discs total in the first quarter of this year.

Happy Feet sold over 4 million in one week in March. That's not exceptional for a new DVD title in the #1 sales slot. Second place slot is generally in the 2-2.5 million range. For a week.

Throw in the new multi-format players which, should they dominate, would likely make HD-DVD more attractive (it's cheaper and faster to bring to market), and that Wal-Mart will soon stock a $300 HD-DVD player, that HD-DVD has sold more dedicated players thus far and is ahead in Europe, and you can see why BRD isn't in as strong a position as they want you to think.

It's all spin right now.

Of course, had we had a single HD format instead of these stupid wars...

 

[05elstonc]

Intel's entire thrust with their mobile CPU's and Chipsets is lower TDP therefore allowing thinner smaller notebooks. Redesigns will occur when the thermal envelope has been lowered enough to warrant a thinner computer that is smaller. There are limits though. The MacBook Pro is already quite minamalist. Easier HD upgrade, perhaps the macbook keyboard, LED backlight, and a magnetic latch.

 

[Episteme]

It seems unlikely to me that Apple would release such ground a groundbreaking hardware redesign as LED backlights or BluRay or Flash HDD only ONE YEAR after the PowerBook got it's redesign. The powerbook was around for many many years before being upgraded to the MBP, which didnt even give THAT big of a redesign when you get down to it.

*Grabs the fire extinguisher and cowers in the corner*

LED backlighting, Flash HDD and BRD aren't groundbreaking though. With the possible exception of Flash HDD they're are already in PC laptops in Best Buy. It's relatively new tech but it's already out there, and will only get more common.

I think it's more down to tech availability and cost.

The case design has been pretty constant, sure, but are you sure you want to make the claim that this means no changes "under the skin"? I'd say moving from PPC to Intel was quite a jump

Personally, I think LED backlighting is the most likely new tech, though it seems probable it would only appear on the MBP at first. Flash HDD seems more likely to be a high end option if it shows at all. Flash-based caching seems much more likely -- and is possibly more useful, at least until the Flash HDD sizes get bigger. BRD is a bit of a wildcard, I guess. My gut feeling is it's unlikely for the next refresh, but that it's a case of "when", not "if".

 

[toke lahti]

The war's barely begun and currently irrelevant.

Do you think that Apple will offer neither of optical hd-formats as long as the war goes on, even if it will last for years?

 

[iW00t]

LED backlighting, Flash HDD and BRD aren't groundbreaking though. With the possible exception of Flash HDD they're are already in PC laptops in Best Buy. It's relatively new tech but it's already out there, and will only get more common.

Maybe not, but somehow I still have a feeling that Apple won't incorporate these technologies in the next round of upgrades, instead waiting till October to put them in (with new features in Leopard to take advantage of them).

 

[Episteme]

Maybe not, but somehow I still have a feeling that Apple won't incorporate these technologies in the next round of upgrades, instead waiting till October to put them in (with new features in Leopard to take advantage of them).

Tough call. I wouldn't want to bet either way.

However, one thing I can tell you, coming from a software engineering background -- you never want to introduce all new hardware and software at the same time if you can avoid it.

My other thought is, I can't see them releasing an SR machine in June/July and then another in October, when Penryn is just around the corner in Jan/Feb... and Montevina follows in May or so. I doubt they want to churn hardware THAT fast...

 

[Tadros]

Hey

Any new news on what's going on with SR, or rumors or something? It's been kinda dead for a few days.

 

[iW00t]

Tough call. I wouldn't want to bet either way.

However, one thing I can tell you, coming from a software engineering background -- you never want to introduce all new hardware and software at the same time if you can avoid it.

My other thought is, I can't see them releasing an SR machine in June/July and then another in October, when Penryn is just around the corner in Jan/Feb... and Montevina follows in May or so. I doubt they want to churn hardware THAT fast...

I hope Apple thinks like the rest of us. I'd like to see at least a MBP with LED backlit displays this June so I can get one then. To me everything (apart from the GPU) is generally good enough, it is just the screen which sucks donkey balls

 

[Episteme]

I hope Apple thinks like the rest of us. I'd like to see at least a MBP with LED backlit displays this June so I can get one then. To me everything (apart from the GPU) is generally good enough, it is just the screen which sucks donkey balls

A non-grainy LED backlit LCD display, a decent at least vaguely-recent GPU, and the ability to have at least 4GB of RAM (and preferably more for "headroom" down the line) -- hence the wait for SR.

 

[iW00t]

A non-grainy LED backlit LCD display, a decent at least vaguely-recent GPU, and the ability to have at least 4GB of RAM (and preferably more for "headroom" down the line) -- hence the wait for SR.

You got it spot on pretty much.

The GPU doesn't even matter much to me, but a non grainy screen... especially one that is LED backlit (and supposedly only consumes 3W of power) would do wonders for the current design.

SR and CPU bumps and possible GPU bumps are just gravy.