Officially giving up on the Mac Mini 2018 + 4K monitor dream

[mattwestside]

What do you guys think of the BenQ PD3200U

https://www.benq.com/en-us/monitor/designer/pd3200u/specifications.html

Will scaling be an issue with this monitor, thanks

I have the mm 2018 i7 32gb ram

There is a huge panel lottery with this monitor. Like most 32" 4k displays, it uses two panels stitched together so the left and right side often result in different color temperatures on white backgrounds. It's truly maddening once you see it because it can't be unseen, especially for the price they're charging for panel tech that's now at least six years old.

BenQ 4k displays also suffer from random flicker issues that is well documented in the reviews on Amazon. I went through three of them before I decided that a thunderbolt display was the best option...for now.

 

[erikjm]

Don't give up ! My Mac Mini 2018 core i3, 8 G RAM makes pair with Dell U2718Q 4K monitor perfectly with native resolutions. All I had to do was making scale to see everything bigger , let it look like 2560 x 1440 as picture attached here

I just set up my Dell U2718Q 4K monitors but I am getting the old scaled listing of different resolutions. Did you have to install a driver to get the Retina-like scaling options? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Spectrum]

I just set up my Dell U2718Q 4K monitors but I am getting the old scaled listing of different resolutions. Did you have to install a driver to get the Retina-like scaling options? Any help would be appreciated.

Can you show us a screenshot of your display preference pane? In macOS.

 

[erikjm]

Can you show us a screenshot of your display preference pane? In macOS.

Here is what I am seeing. I've been trouble shooting it overnight and it appears related to using DisplayPort cables rather than HDMI. Has anyone had luck using DisplayPort?

 

[Stephen.R]

View attachment 832702

Here is what I am seeing. I've been trouble shooting it overnight and it appears related to using DisplayPort cables rather than HDMI. Has anyone had luck using DisplayPort?

I use DP to my 2 Dell 4K's (24" P2415Q's) and I get the 'retina' selector you presumably expected. You're not holding down the Option key when clicking "Scaled" are you? (Try toggling back to 'Default for the Display' and then clicking 'Scaled' without holding down any keys)

 

[erikjm]

I use DP to my 2 Dell 4K's (24" P2415Q's) and I get the 'retina' selector you presumably expected. You're not holding down the Option key when clicking "Scaled" are you? (Try toggling back to 'Default for the Display' and then clicking 'Scaled' without holding down any keys)

Thanks. I have tried to toggle without holding down the option key and what I see is the picture I posted earlier. When holding down the option key I get additional scaled options, but still not the ‘retina’ options I am expecting to see.

 

[projectsbin]

As I used the forum to troubleshoot I would like to report back.

MM2018 i7. 4K Nec Monitor.

Mojave 10.14 and 8GB of RAM terrible UI visual performance in scaled modes. Barely acceptable in 2k and 4k modes.

After memory upgrade to 32GB everything is normal (very smooth UI performance, scrolling, complex web pages/animation rendering).

 

[Stephen.R]

Thanks. I have tried to toggle without holding down the option key and what I see is the picture I posted earlier. When holding down the option key I get additional scaled options, but still not the ‘retina’ options I am expecting to see.

OK so what do you get if you pick scaled while holding down Option? And is there a difference between HDMI and DP connection (in terms of the options shown to you) for each of those methods (i.e. with and without Option)?

For reference this is what I see when I hold down option and click scaled (it has too many options to show all, there's a couple more above the top of the list

 

[klezmer41]

I have the Dell U2718q (27" 4k) next to a Dell U2415 (24" 1920x1200). On the 27" I've tried all the various modes, and although I like the crispness and extra clarity, nothing is tickling my fancy. "Looks like 2560 x 1440" has everything way too small for me, and 2x scaling (1080p) has everything a tad too big. The U2415 is a fantastic monitor for me, even though it's not high-res.

This 27" is getting sent back for sure.

Is there some other option I'm not thinking of?

 

[getrealbro]

I have the Dell U2718q (27" 4k) next to a Dell U2415 (24" 1920x1200). On the 27" I've tried all the various modes, and although I like the crispness and extra clarity, nothing is tickling my fancy. "Looks like 2560 x 1440" has everything way too small for me, and 2x scaling (1080p) has everything a tad too big. The U2415 is a fantastic monitor for me, even though it's not high-res.

This 27" is getting sent back for sure.

Is there some other option I'm not thinking of?

If you like the Dell U2415 (1920x1200) you may want to pair it with a BENQ EW3270ZL (2560 x 1440) which has nearly the same PPI. Yes I know the BenQ is not 4K.

GetRealBro

 

[Stephen.R]

Is there some other option I'm not thinking of?

On my Dell P2415Q's I have a scaled option between 1080p and 1440p: (looks like) 2304x1296.

I believe the content should be similar sized (albeit one will be 'retina' and one not) between the two: the 'looks like' resolution has an effective drawn PPI of 97, and your 24" has an actual PPI of 94.

 

[klezmer41]

On my Dell P2415Q's I have a scaled option between 1080p and 1440p: (looks like) 2304x1296.

I believe the content should be similar sized (albeit one will be 'retina' and one not) between the two: the 'looks like' resolution has an effective drawn PPI of 97, and your 24" has an actual PPI of 94.

I have it currently set as that, and I'm actually pretty pleased with it. It certainly looks better than the U2415. Are there any downsides with using this setting? If not then maybe I'll get another one of these monitors.

 

[Stephen.R]

The "downside" is that it's more resource hungry than running at the 'default' scaled resolution. I've had issues previously trying to run my screens at 1440p (not a memory issue, I have 64GB).

 

[ajaan]

Personally, I've thrown in the towel too.

Tried a USB-c to Display Port cable to a 28-inch 4K monitor, which definitely improved things, as refresh jumped to 60 hz from 30 hz. The UI became more responsive. People should try this if they have lag.

But, I still wasn't happy, and didn't like the glare of a 4K screen, working with text all day.

Back to a 1080p 27-inch matte monitor.

 

[Stephen.R]

and didn't like the glare of a 4K screen

Wouldn’t a matte screen solve that?

 

[Shedlock2000]

OK, I am not as tech-savvy as I would like to be and I am struggling to understand some of the aspects of this thread (though there have been some excellent attempts to explain the issues).

I have a 21.5" iMac with two older iMacs as in Display Mode. The iMac that does the work is a 2017 Retina 4k, 3.4GHz i5 with 8GB 2400 MHz DDR4 Ram and a Radeon Pro560 (4GB) Graphics card. I know this is a Mac Mini thread, but the application issue is the same.

Computer Specs.:

Desktop Space (The centre display is the Retina iMac):

How my screens usually look:

My Display Mode iMacs only offer standard 1080p res. As I do a lot of writing and reading (often, I have 30-40 .pdfs open at any given time as well as several Pages files), I really notice the difference when looking at text on my two secondary screens. I want to switch the Display Mode iMacs for two 4k displays to try and remove the fuzziness and blurring of the text (which is very noticeable after about 10 hours at the computer). I don't have massive amounts of desktop realty, so I need to keep my monitor size to about 24" -- though Samsung have a cheaper 28" 4K that is the same height as my iMac, and would look better proportioned.

While a number of the posts above talk about text blurring and text size through scaling, I am unclear if I can retain the regular text size (the same size of text that naturally populates on my 4K iMac) as well as decrease the blurriness by using a 4K monitor.

I don't want to experience jerky minimisation and launching of apps and windows (I switch between many windows often) and I want to try and get tight text borders and the same tone whites to my Retina iMac. I have also noticed that the white background of the .pdfs often seems cream or grubby on the Display Mode iMacs; similarly, I would like my screens not to be matte (as the disjunct between my 4K iMac and the other screens would be irritating).

My questions are these:

1. Can anyone suggest what I need to do to make the above happen and whether or not it is possible;
2. If it is possible, what monitor would be best?

I have included some screenshots to try and highlight the issues I am having with the text blurring (I am assuming the difference would only be noticeable to those with 4K screens, though!). Hopefully you can see the issue of blurring and the difference between screens. Many .pdfs are much worse than the ones provided here, so the Retina display really does make a difference!

4K Imac Text:

Display Mode iMac text:

Thanks in advance for the wisdom of this forum.

 

[Shedlock2000]

But, I still wasn't happy, and didn't like the glare of a 4K screen, working with text all day.

I'm the opposite, I work with text all day and I love my iMac glossy screen. I very much dislike the matte screens. I guess everyone's preferences are different!

 

[Stephen.R]

If it is possible, what monitor would be best?

The key is likely to find displays with as close-as-possible PPI to the iMac.

At the same size, that means the LG 4K 21" UltraFine display that Apple sells (or used to?). I'm not sure if they're glossy or not though?

Another option would be a 24" 4K display from LG or Dell (I have the Dell, model P2415Q). It's slightly larger physically at the same resolution, so the PPI is slightly lower but you may not notice the difference if you use one of the scaling modes in macOS. As a bonus the Dell at least (possibly the LG too) can be rotated 90º, which can work quite effectively for some types of document.

 

[Shedlock2000]

The key is likely to find displays with as close-as-possible PPI to the iMac.

At the same size, that means the LG 4K 21" UltraFine display that Apple sells (or used to?). I'm not sure if they're glossy or not though?

No longer available, sadly, and loads of $

Another option would be a 24" 4K display from LG or Dell (I have the Dell, model P2415Q)

I have looked at the Dell -- The DP2415Q seems like a good option. Do you notice any UI scaling issues with the DP2415Q? -- One of the charts shared in the thread showed them as being one of the worst possible combinations for scaling issues. They're a bit more money than the Samsung that I was planning. Are they as glossy as the iMac?

 

[Stephen.R]

Do you notice any UI scaling issues with the DP2415Q?

The only issues I've personally had, are due to the limitations of the iGPU in the Mini. It runs two of them fine at the default of "looks like 1920x1080". I'm currently trialling "looks like 2304x1296" to give a little more screen real estate (which also seems fine so far). I'd initially run one (before I ordered the second) at "looks like 2560x1440" and it was fine, but two at that resolution had visual glitches and lag due to the constraints of the iGPU.

Are they as glossy as the iMac?

I haven't used an iMac for a long time (the last one I owned came in Lime green ) but I don't think they are no. The iMac is pretty glossy right? The displays are definitely more matte than my 2018 MBP15 - in the laptop I can clearly see my own face if the screen is off - on the Dell I get a vague dull head-shaped/skin-coloured blob reflected back at me.

One of the charts shared in the thread showed them as being one of the worst possible combinations for scaling issues.

I think a lot of people (and I followed the same logic until I tried these displays) read Marc Edwards (of Bjango) article about "ideal PPI" for a Mac display, and forget to take into account context.

Marc's perspective is as a designer. Not having 'even' pixel rendering (i.e. a straight 1:1 or 1:2 etc pixel mapping) means fine details may not be clear when creating UI elements (i.e. if you want to render a 1 pixel line, and that isn't rendered to exactly 1 or 2 or 3 physical pixels in the display, it won't be as crisp.

But most of us are not designers, and IMO the way macOS scales on Hi-DPI displays is fine for most purposes, so long as your GPU can handle the increased load. The 2018 (and possibly earlier) MBP15 ships with a non-even resolution by default, and performance issues aside things look no worse to me in the non-even scaling modes as in the even "@2x" mode. Oh and my eyesight is fine - I don't wear glasses, I'm in my mid 30s.

My purpose is not that dissimilar to yours - I spent a good chunk of my day reading and writing text (code in an IDE, the terminal, SQL client).

 

[Shedlock2000]

The only issues I've personally had, are due to the limitations of the iGPU in the Mini. It runs two of them fine at the default of "looks like 1920x1080". I'm currently trialling "looks like 2304x1296" to give a little more screen real estate (which also seems fine so far). I'd initially run one (before I ordered the second) at "looks like 2560x1440" and it was fine, but two at that resolution had visual glitches and lag due to the constraints of the iGPU.

OK, that's interesting. I don't think my iMac has any better iGPU than the mac mini (if not worse), so it is likely that I may notice some lurching. I am struggling to figure out what "looks like..." I would need for the screen text size to match my iMac -- I wouldn't want two different sized texts to appear in the default text applications.

What "looks like..." would I need to mimic the text size, and how would my iMac cope with the scaling of that?

I don't think they are no.

Boo -- I like the set up to be similarly looking. Hence why I am running iMacs as displays atm (I am not keen on many different kinds of back and sides either).

IMO the way macOS scales on Hi-DPI displays is fine for most purposes, so long as your GPU can handle the increased load.

Not sure what my iGPU is like -- I don't know what performance is good or bad; I know my iMac is under pressure to keep track of all the highlighting on my .pdfs in Preview and Pages sucks up a surprising amount of memory when you've three documents open with a bunch of tracked changes going on!

Oh and my eyesight is fine - I don't wear glasses, I'm in my mid 30s.

My eyesight is bobbins -- I am short sighted with an awkward astigmatism, so any deviation from crisp lines is exaggerated into blurred lines (hence my desire to have 4K resolution and Retina text sharpness).

 

[Stephen.R]

I don't think my iMac has any better iGPU than the mac mini

As shown in your "About this Mac" screenshot above, you have a Radeon Pro 560, even accounting for the built-in display @ 4K, you should be fine.

I am struggling to figure out what "looks like..." I would need for the screen text size to match my iMac -- I wouldn't want two different sized texts to appear in the default text applications.

Well assuming the iMac screen is set to straight "@2x" (which may be worded as "Looks like 2048x1152") you need an effective (i.e. the "looks like" resolution of 110ppi, so on a 24" that would be ~ 2304x1296.

Boo -- I like the set up to be similarly looking.

I can understand this completely - if you're going from one to the other all day your eyes will freak out.

Not sure what my iGPU is like

As mentioned above, you don't have an iGPU (the "I" stands for "Integrated", as in Intel Graphics, that are part of the CPU package. The iMac has a "dedicated" (often shorted to "dGPU") GPU, and should be more than adequate to drive the built-in + 2 external 4K displays.

I know my iMac is under pressure to keep track of all the highlighting on my .pdfs in Preview and Pages sucks up a surprising amount of memory when you've three documents open with a bunch of tracked changes going on!

That is more likely related to system RAM (I note you only have 8GB). Thankfully in your case, the GPU has it's own dedicated RAM.

so any deviation from crisp lines is exaggerated into blurred lines (hence my desire to have 4K resolution and Retina text sharpness).

Ok, well the first thing to test, would be trying your iMac's built-in 4K display at a "scaled" resolution. The "2304x1296" I mentioned earlier is 120% of the "native" retina for my 4K's, so to simulate the same amount of "scaling" on your iMac you'd need to set it to something like 2457x1382 - it's possible that exact figure isn't a provided option but there should be something close. Look in System Preferences > Displays > click "Scaled" and see what each entry says under the little simulated display (on the left) when you over over it. I've attached a screenshot to demonstrate where it shows this info.

 

[ajaan]

Wouldn’t a matte screen solve that?

Perhaps. But I've tried two 4K monitors with my mini now, a AOC and a Samsung.

I've been underwhelmed by how the mini has performed. It's like wading through mud with a 4K display. I suppose it might also depend on what you are upgrading from: if from a much older machine, then perhaps the 4K / Mini combo feels fine. Coming from a rMBP it felt sluggish.

It's definitely 'snappier' and nicer to use with a 1080p, but the trade off is poorer resolution.

Someone earlier on this thread said something like, it's almost like we have to choose between good monitor resolution or snappy UI.

That's been my experience too. Feels like a new, fast computer with the 1080p monitor, it didn't with a 4K monitor. I guess one could power a 4K monitor directly from an eGPU and that would improve things. I don't think the 630 is up to it, whatever the specs say.

 

[Stephen.R]

I've been underwhelmed by how the mini has performed. It's like wading through mud with a 4K display.

A few key things:

How much memory do you have?

What resolution are you running the display at?

 

[ajaan]

A few key things:

How much memory do you have?

What resolution are you running the display at?

32 GB RAM

Default for monitor, which for the Samsung display, was automatically putting it at the 'Larger Text' setting, equivalent to 1080p.

The Default for the AOC monitor was rather different, it was putting the resolution at maximum space, and making everything tiny.

I fiddled around with the scaling on both monitors.