Parallels and Windows 10 for ARM

[Thomas Davie]

the advantage of being a mac user is we have missed every good game for the past 10 years. now we can pick them up for pennies and they are all new to us.

I hear you. I played Fallout 3/New Vegas on Xbox and had to leave all that stuff when I moved to a new house in another province a month ago. As soon as I picked up Macs I went to go see what stuff was available on Steam/GOG. I picked up some Windows exclusive games and some that were Mac specific.

When I first bought Fallout New Vegas in Xbox format it was $89 Can on launch day with no DLC's. Just buying it online it was under $10 Can with all DLC's. What isn't for the Mac I try with Crossover and if that fails I run it under Windows 10 arm64. Some stuff hasn't run under Crossover, although I never adjusted settings just went to using Parallels/W10 arm64. Nothing hasn't worked under that usage scenario.

The most demanding game I have is Steel Division 2 and that works fine under Parallels/Windows.

But I was able to buy a Mac version of Civilization VI, so that alone makes me happy.

Tom

 

[swandy]

I hear you. I played Fallout 3/New Vegas on Xbox and had to leave all that stuff when I moved to a new house in another province a month ago. As soon as I picked up Macs I went to go see what stuff was available on Steam/GOG. I picked up some Windows exclusive games and some that were Mac specific.

When I first bought Fallout New Vegas in Xbox format it was $89 Can on launch day with no DLC's. Just buying it online it was under $10 Can with all DLC's. What isn't for the Mac I try with Crossover and if that fails I run it under Windows 10 arm64. Some stuff hasn't run under Crossover, although I never adjusted settings just went to using Parallels/W10 arm64. Nothing hasn't worked under that usage scenario.

The most demanding game I have is Steel Division 2 and that works fine under Parallels/Windows.

But I was able to buy a Mac version of Civilization VI, so that alone makes me happy.

Tom

I likes your idea of older games and got Doom 3 BFG. Crossover couldn’t get it to run regardless of the type of bottle I used. Then tried Windows 10ARM/Parallels 17. Tried various settings under emulation and had it set to run under Windows 8 also. Nothing. How are you getting older - read non 64bit games - to run? Thanks.

 

[FreedomPenguin]

I’ve been reading about parallels, the cheapest (one time fee) license says 8gb vram. Does that mean if I have 16gb, it will only use 8gb?

 

[jlc1978]

I’ve been reading about parallels, the cheapest (one time fee) license says 8gb vram. Does that mean if I have 16gb, it will only use 8gb?

Yes. They really want to sell subscriptions.

 

[theluggage]

(Edit: deleted - misread question)

 

[jlc1978]

That must be a mistake, since it doesn't make sense. "8gb vram" (video RAM) would rule out all but higher-end MacBook Pros and iMacs with discrete GPUs. M1 Macs and machines with Intel integrated graphics don't have any discrete VRAM.

No mistake. 8gb is for the standard edition, higher amounts require the more expensive subscription pro version.

 

[theluggage]

No mistake. 8gb is for the standard edition, higher amounts require the more expensive subscription pro version.

Sorry, misunderstood your post - thought you were asking how much VRAM Parallels needed - Youre talking about how much VRAM you can allocate to a VM, right?

 

[Thomas Davie]

I likes your idea of older games and got Doom 3 BFG. Crossover couldn’t get it to run regardless of the type of bottle I used. Then tried Windows 10ARM/Parallels 17. Tried various settings under emulation and had it set to run under Windows 8 also. Nothing. How are you getting older - read non 64bit games - to run? Thanks.

Fallout 3 game of the year, Fallout New Vegas Ultimate Edition, Steel Division 2/DLC's, Field of Glory II/Medieval, Warplan, Warplan Pacific John Tiller's Campaign series and every Civil War or WW2 release by John Tiller just installs under Windows 10 arm64 with no tinkering needed. Warplan is missing 1 font in the game, but then it just defaults to NATO symbols which I am ok with.

Nothing that I've installed hasn't worked. If it make a difference, I'm running a 16 gb MB air with 8/8 cores. I did set Windows 10 arm64 vm to 8 gb ram and 4 processor cores. Some games get 'troublesome' if I try to play then an external 32" monitor but that's it.

Sorry I can't be of more specific help.

Tom

 

[Thomas Davie]

@swandy I just went and bought Doom 3 BFG and a quick install. Did not work under Windows. Am installing under Crossover at the moment and I'll let you know what happens (without tinkering).

It chokes most spectacularly under Crossover. Some DOSlike box pops up with a listing of errors.

Tom

 

[swandy]

Fallout 3 game of the year, Fallout New Vegas Ultimate Edition, Steel Division 2/DLC's, Field of Glory II/Medieval, Warplan, Warplan Pacific John Tiller's Campaign series and every Civil War or WW2 release by John Tiller just installs under Windows 10 arm64 with no tinkering needed. Warplan is missing 1 font in the game, but then it just defaults to NATO symbols which I am ok with.

Nothing that I've installed hasn't worked. If it make a difference, I'm running a 16 gb MB air with 8/8 cores. I did set Windows 10 arm64 vm to 8 gb ram and 4 processor cores. Some games get 'troublesome' if I try to play then an external 32" monitor but that's it.

Sorry I can't be of more specific help.

Tom

I would guess that it is the fact I have only 8GB of RAM and allocated only 4 for the Windows VM. I am also running Windows 11ARM now, but if anything, that should work better. Thanks

 

[FreedomPenguin]

so is it recommended to run half your ram to regular macOS and half to parallels? I guess 16gb could work if thats the case. I wonder if I should wait til parallels 18 though to ensure arm 11 actually legally works

 

[4743913]

Everyone remember to check https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Home before purchasing games.

 

[jlc1978]

Sorry, misunderstood your post - thought you were asking how much VRAM Parallels needed - Youre talking about how much VRAM you can allocate to a VM, right?

Correct, I was responding to a post about Ram allocation.

 

[Thomas Davie]

@swandy Tomorrow I’m going to install Crossover on Ubuntu which I installed through Parallels and see if Doom BFG will work that way. Good or bad I’ll post here.

Tom

 

[FreedomPenguin]

What do you guys think my best solution is? Theres a game called final fantasy IX on steam, its for windows. so its going to need crossover or parallels I assume. Theres a mod, called moguri mod, it installs over the steam files. I havnt played it, but I want too play it.

Thats the only reason im considering parallels. I just dont want to pay 99 bucks for it, and find out parallels 18 is out a week later with double the functionality. Little hesitant about windows 11, real license working on it. If I read right, the current solution is a developer beta/build of w11. which means, it will stop receiving updates once its out of beta. that is a scary thought.

 

[jlc1978]

What do you guys think my best solution is? Theres a game called final fantasy IX on steam, its for windows. so its going to need crossover or parallels I assume. Theres a mod, called moguri mod, it installs over the steam files. I havnt played it, but I want too play it.

Crossover isn't an emulator or VM, it is a compatibility layer that translates Windows to run on MacOS. My experience with Crossover on Intel macs is it is hit or miss; stuff would not always run perfectly. IIRC tey have a free trial. In addition WINE, which shares a lot of code with Crossover, is also worth a try.

Thats the only reason im considering parallels. I just dont want to pay 99 bucks for it, and find out parallels 18 is out a week later with double the functionality. Little hesitant about windows 11, real license working on it. If I read right, the current solution is a developer beta/build of w11. which means, it will stop receiving updates once its out of beta. that is a scary thought.

Parallels is on a 12 month or so release cycle so I doubt 18 is near. As for W11, who knows what will happen once it is out of beta.

 

[Gerdi]

@swandy I just went and bought Doom 3 BFG and a quick install. Did not work under Windows. Am installing under Crossover at the moment and I'll let you know what happens (without tinkering).

It chokes most spectacularly under Crossover. Some DOSlike box pops up with a listing of errors.

Tom

For Doom3 (It works with my standard edition) you can just run the ARM64 version (no need for emulation) of the open sourced Doom3 engine under Windows. It needs OpenGL though, not sure if thats working under Parallels.

 

[KPOM]

Crossover isn't an emulator or VM, it is a compatibility layer that translates Windows to run on MacOS. My experience with Crossover on Intel macs is it is hit or miss; stuff would not always run perfectly. IIRC tey have a free trial. In addition WINE, which shares a lot of code with Crossover, is also worth a try.


Parallels is on a 12 month or so release cycle so I doubt 18 is near. As for W11, who knows what will happen once it is out of beta.

I guess we'll find out soon enough. Microsoft is releasing Windows 11 on October 5. The "PC Health Check" app for Windows ARM detects Apple Silicon and says that the CPU is not supported. Parallels supposedly has a solution for TPM 2.0, but they may need another workaround if Microsoft correctly identifies the CPU.

 

[gank41]

I guess we'll find out soon enough. Microsoft is releasing Windows 11 on October 5. The "PC Health Check" app for Windows ARM detects Apple Silicon and says that the CPU is not supported. Parallels supposedly has a solution for TPM 2.0, but they may need another workaround if Microsoft correctly identifies the CPU.

Parallels has a way to add support for a TPM Chip...

 

[KPOM]

Parallels has a way to add support for a TPM Chip...




View attachment 1825649

But Windows Update won't work on the shipping version of Windows 11 if it detects an incompatible chip.

 

[gank41]

But Windows Update won't work on the shipping version of Windows 11 if it detects an incompatible chip.

Yeah, you’re right. I just ran the updated version of the PC Health check app and although it shows the chip as being detected, says Apple Silicon isn’t compatible. That could also be updated once Win11 is released and official if Microsoft is planning on adding BootCamp support. Which is highly unlikely. But I’m sure there’s a plan of some kind in place that probably can’t be “official” until Win11’s release.

 

[KPOM]

Yeah, you’re right. I just ran the updated version of the PC Health check app and although it shows the chip as being detected, says Apple Silicon isn’t compatible. That could also be updated once Win11 is released and official if Microsoft is planning on adding BootCamp support. Which is highly unlikely. But I’m sure there’s a plan of some kind in place that probably can’t be “official” until Win11’s release.

My guess is that it is unlikely that Microsoft will formally license Windows on ARM to Parallels, at lease initially. It would be a little awkward for the fastest Windows on ARM PCs to be Macs running Apple Silicon. However, Parallels is selling "Business" licenses that supposedly allows setting up universal binaries for mass deployment, including on M1 Macs, so perhaps they are in negotiations, as I don't see many enterprise users deploying Insider Previews or copies of Windows on ARM with questionable licensing.

I don't think Boot Camp is in the cards, ever. Apple's statements last year on the M1's release suggest they won't do anything to prevent Microsoft running Windows on ARM through virtualization, but that it isn't really a priority for Apple and that it's up to Microsoft.

 

[cbum]

My guess is that it is unlikely that Microsoft will formally license Windows on ARM to Parallels, at lease initially. It would be a little awkward for the fastest Windows on ARM PCs to be Macs running Apple Silicon.

Awkward for whom? Wouldn't Windows on ARM on AS just be more licenses for MS?
Would MS care if it's "awkward" for, say, Intel?

 

[KPOM]

Awkward for whom? Wouldn't Windows on ARM on AS just be more licenses for MS?
Would MS care if it's "awkward" for, say, Intel?

Awkward for Microsoft, who sells an own-branded Surface with a "custom" Qualcomm chip. Qualcomm is planning to move to its own ARM designs (like Apple and now Google), so this may improve performance in the future, but for now a MacBook Air would likely run Windows on ARM as well as or even better in virtualization than a Surface does natively.

 

[Gerdi]

Awkward for Microsoft, who sells an own-branded Surface with a "custom" Qualcomm chip. Qualcomm is planning to move to its own ARM designs (like Apple and now Google), so this may improve performance in the future, but for now a MacBook Air would likely run Windows on ARM as well as or even better in virtualization than a Surface does natively.

Why would Microsoft care at all? There always have been faster and higher TDP machines, than Microsoft's own tablet line of Surface products. Why would you even compare a slim tablet with LTE, touch and pen input with a Laptop?