Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Esskaaell

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2021
8
0
Olá.
I had the same problem. Had to use lspci/getpci & setpci to manually change the speed of the pci slot :-(

Look at this post:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...4-ssds-5900-mb-s.1936311/page-9#post-25247002
for the commands.

Found the PCI Utils here: https://github.com/pciutils/pciutils
Worked on my MacPro 3.1 with Monterey 12.0.1

Greetings from Germany
Hi,
I put at first in the slot 4 my just arrived X4 PCIe adapter card with WD_BLACK SN750 SE 500GB (Gen 4) drive.
The speed was ~700/730
I put he card into the slot 2 and the speed is ~1350/1410
I do not understand this. The adapter card is X4, it should work on the same speed in every slot (x4/X16)
It is the drive, the adapter, my Mac or just me?
 

Esskaaell

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2021
8
0
^^^^One more question - is your Mac Pro a 3,1 or a 5,1?

Lou
5,1, dual 5650, 12GB, Nvidia NVS510 (2 GB) in slot 1, PCIe 3.0 X4 NVMe adapter with 500GB WD Black SN 750 in slot 2 (now), 500 GB HDD in bay 1, 100 GB HDD next to the DVD drive (2.5", just for install volumes), Mojave ( absolutely new OS, High Sierra --> Mojave), Boot rom version is the latest 144, PCIe slot 3 and 4 empty now.
No OC or other patch. Yet.
 
Last edited:

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,321
3,003
^^^^If you read a couple of the owner's comments at Amazon, it appears that the card might actually be an 8X card.

Lou
 

Esskaaell

macrumors newbie
Dec 10, 2021
8
0
^^^^If you read a couple of the owner's comments at Amazon, it appears that the card might actually be an 8X card.

Yes, I found the mention of the 8X chip. But I still cannot see the reason why the speed is just the half of the 4X in the 4X slot
 

nnaco

macrumors newbie
Dec 25, 2021
5
0
Hello all, it is a great forum. I've learned a lot..
I am trying to built a Nvme raid set up on my cMP(12core, Mid2012, 144.0 Boot) with Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card (Silent) Model for 4K video/film Production on FCPX.
I've been checking the forums but I couldn't find any info about using 4TB m2 ssd's on this system.
Can you share your insights please?

-Sonnet PCIe card (silent)
-Sapphire RX580 8GB GPU
-Mojave

Boot - PNY XLR8 CS3040 2TB
Raid 0 - 3X4TB Corsair MP510 M.2 SSD

The first page of this forum doesn't include MP510 drives, but on the sonnet compatible list gives OK.
Any other suggestions? is it logical to use 4TB raid system on this combination?

Thank you in advance
 

enplaned

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2021
81
41
USA
In the big thread on MacBook NVMEs, there's at least one report of 4TB drives being used successfully:


I have no idea if this is at all relevant to your own situation - I am unfamiliar with the hardware you're discussing.
 

nnaco

macrumors newbie
Dec 25, 2021
5
0
Thank you for the reply. I’ve seen some reports on 4Tb Sabrents , but I am not sure if it is working well. I couldn’t find anything about Corsair Mp510, maybe I give it a try and give a shout on this thread. Thank you.
 

GlynH

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2016
138
35
EDIT: Not sure what Silverstone card you're referring to. Make sure it's for a single blade and with a heatsink or look at the first post for recommendations .

I was originally told the adaptor was Silverstone but when I pulled it out yesterday it was plainly marked Supageek as can be seen from the attached photo.

All I can say is it seems to be compatible with the Mac Pro as it has been golden thus far so maybe it can be added to the list of known working NVMe M.2 -> PCIe adaptor cards? Currently selling for £13.99 on Amazon so competitively priced and seems to be up to the mark speed-wise for a x4 adaptor.

IMG_4211.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-12-17 at 23.33.24.jpg

Doesn't have a heat sink on it though as you can see and not sure if the 970 Pro blade temperature is listed in the chart below or not? Doesn't seem like it to me assuming that the X58 entries belong to the Northbridge?

Screen Shot 2021-12-29 at 17.16.09.png

I do have both the Aquacomputer KryoM.2 EVO and Sabrent adaptors with heatsinks here but wondering whether I should splash the cash and get something like the x16 Highpoint, Sonnet or Squid with a proven track record that can hold more than one blade for future expansion and should be much faster?

-=Glyn=-
 
Last edited:

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
1,453
596
Doesn't have a heat sink on it though as you can see and not sure if the 970 Pro blade temperature is listed in the chart below or not?
Looks good, the I/O speeds are correct for a single blade adapter card.
A heatsink is necessary though...
It's a while ago I installed TG Pro , but looks like only the SATA bays are shown in the screenshot.
You could click on the harddrives on the left , it should be visible somewhere as e.g. macsFanControl or iStats menus do show it...
Doesn't seem like it to me assuming that the X58 entries belong to the Northbridge?
Correct.
I do have both the Aquacomputer KryoM.2 EVO and Sabrent adaptors with heatsinks here but wondering whether I should splash the cash and get something like the x16 Highpoint, Sonnet or Squid with a proven track record that can hold more than one blade for future expansion and should be much faster?
Well , that's something I cant answer for you.
You'd get ~ double the speeds but this is only interesting for certain applications , the OS will only improve performance marginal, if at all noticeable.
The question is if double the speed and the possibility of installing multiple blades is worth the investment of e.g. a HighPoint + multiple blades.

For the meantime, since you already purchased a KRYO m.2 , I'd recommend to install the blade in that card ASAP to avoid cooking your new 970 PRO ; )
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MarkC426

Black Ninja Original

macrumors member
May 7, 2019
58
6
Chile
Hi Guys,

Just for the record, I'm using the Samsung 970 EVO Plus with KyroM.2 EVO on my MacPro 5.1! Slot2. Everything working perfectly Average 1500 read/write, 46°

Thanks to everyone, especially tsialex for the tips!
 

GlynH

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2016
138
35
Looks good, the I/O speeds are correct for a single blade adapter card.
A heatsink is necessary though...

For the meantime, since you already purchased a KRYO m.2 , I'd recommend to install the blade in that card ASAP to avoid cooking your new 970 PRO ; )
As I couldn't see the Samsung 970 Pro temperature in TG Pro I downloaded Macs Fan Control and can see the temperature of it in there.

It's currently showing 47°c vs 25°c for the Samsung 860 EVO n Bay 2 and 33°c for the Seagate EXOS in Bay 1 and I was wondering what temperatures would be considered high?

Surely 47°c is nowhere near high to cook a blade is it? Not that I know much about cooking...;)

Thanks & kind regards,
-=Glyn=-
 
Last edited:

KeesMacPro

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2019
1,453
596
As I couldn't see the Samsung 970 Pro temperature in TG Pro I downloaded Macs Fan Control and can see the temperature of it in there.
Strange that TG Pro doesnt show it !
It's currently showing 47°c vs 25°c for the Samsung 860 EVO n Bay 2 and 33°c for the Seagate EXOS in Bay 1 and I was wondering what temperatures would be considered high?
47 degrees is to be expected for a blade without a heatsink at idle.
However, without a heatsink under load this will get into unhealthy zones for the blade.
I've got blades installed in single blade cards and a bifurcation card (like the HP) and all run somewhere in the low 30's at idle and high 30's/low 40's under extreme load.

Surely 47°c is nowhere near high to cook a blade is it? Not that I know much about cooking...;)
IINM 100 degrees is boiling point ; )
But seriously, afaik a blade should not run over 50 degrees to avoid throttling.
 

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
This one is a stickie, not a long abandoned thread. Any info that is pertinent goes to the first post.


Resellers have very different goals than us, long time users. Overtime you will see that even what are considered "Mac Pro friendly re-sellers" frequently diverge from what we do. Some even have very bad rep with us.
So, how does one alter the first posts?

For instance, Western Digital Green are not mentioned. And they appear to be low cost, and they carry in Australia, three year warranties. They have SSDs and NVME etc. up to 2 TB.

Concerning cooling of blade drives, it appears add-on cooling is quite inexpensive. So it seems to me that the cheapest way to gain speed and reliability is to add a low cost uncooled but compatible PCIe card, add the blade (or two if one is lucky) and add on cooling to the blade oneself.

I am also curious about the cooling issues. I bought a cheap 1 TB SSD, as a boot drive, its located in the DVD space of my 5,1. The darn thing runs super cool. I thought solid state was supposed to run hot. I presume blades run much hotter than SSD encased drives. And I presume, the faster the blade, the hotter it runs? But also ... if a blade is faster, then logically, it is likely to work at peak loads for a shorter period of time ... so do faster blades actually run hotter?

I was also surprised by the huge amount of heat coming out of every one of my hard drives. While I haven't checked the computer's temperature profiles of each device, my hand told me the huge temperature differences. I also could take thermal temperatures too, as I have a thermal camera. I wonder have other's done that to check the accuracy of what the hardware is telling the computer?

But back to my point: an Apple Samsung original 2010 1 TB drive was hot; so was the 4 TB WD black drive; the 2 TB HD green drive - it felt hot too but currently it's on my desk. I put it there because its not much used, and despite that, its hot. And by far the coolest drive is the 1 TB SSD boot drive ...

So I suspect for cooling, one needs to run solid state drives in 5,1s. Because the mechanical drives run extremely hot and hence, must load the 5,1s overall cooling capacity? I wonder too, if the smart thing might be to use cable from the PCIe slot (for the 16xs slot) to connect to blades kept along the drive bay area ... without hard drives, that would be well cooling, because the hard drives run so darn hot. But I don't know if that is commonly done. But if cooling is a big deal, then it makes sense to use the available cooling spaces in the 5,1's case.

Happy new year to everyone!
 
Last edited:

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,454
13,601
So, how does one alter the first posts?

Anyone with appropriate credentials can edit the first post, but you should edit it only after testing something in the long run - just installing and seeing that apparently works is not the way we do here.

For instance, Western Digital Green are not mentioned. And they appear to be low cost, and they carry in Australia, three year warranties. They have SSDs and NVME etc. up to 2 TB.

Cheap entry level QLC drives like WD Green or Samsung QVO are not recommended besides read only/archival storage and usually are mentioned only for problems or in the do not buy list here.

Please remember that this thread is only for PCIe M.2 blades and U.2 drives, not SATA SSDs.

Concerning cooling of blade drives, it appears add-on cooling is quite inexpensive. So it seems to me that the cheapest way to gain speed and reliability is to add a low cost uncooled but compatible PCIe card, add the blade (or two if one is lucky) and add on cooling to the blade oneself.

AquaComputer kryoM.2 is excellent and very affordable, you can get it frequently around $25~$29 on Amazon promos. For markets where is not available there are also good enough elcheapo options from AliExpress, like the models from Jeye.

I am also curious about the cooling issues. I bought a cheap 1 TB SSD, as a boot drive, its located in the DVD space of my 5,1. The darn thing runs super cool. I thought solid state was supposed to run hot. I presume blades run much hotter than SSD encased drives. And I presume, the faster the blade, the hotter it runs? But also ... if a blade is faster, then logically, it is likely to work at peak loads for a shorter period of time ... so do faster blades actually run hotter?

I was also surprised by the huge amount of heat coming out of every one of my hard drives. While I haven't checked the computer's temperature profiles of each device, my hand told me the huge temperature differences. I also could take thermal temperatures too, as I have a thermal camera. I wonder have other's done that to check the accuracy of what the hardware is telling the computer?

But back to my point: an Apple Samsung original 2010 1 TB drive was hot; so was the 4 TB WD black drive; the 2 TB HD green drive - it felt hot too but currently it's on my desk. I put it there because its not much used, and despite that, its hot. And by far the coolest drive is the 1 TB SSD boot drive ...

So I suspect for cooling, one needs to run solid state drives in 5,1s. Because the mechanical drives run extremely hot and hence, must load the 5,1s overall cooling capacity? I wonder too, if the smart thing might be to use cable from the PCIe slot (for the 16xs slot) to connect to blades kept along the drive bay area ... without hard drives, that would be well cooling, because the hard drives run so darn hot. But I don't know if that is commonly done. But if cooling is a big deal, then it makes sense to use the available cooling spaces in the 5,1's case.

Happy new year to everyone!
So, you don't want to spend on recommended M.2 adapters to cool the high temperatures of M.2 drives when in use and solve thermal throttling and also avoid warranty issues, but you are thinking on relocating the blades for cooling purposes?

Did you even thought about the cost of the needed adapters and correct cables to do it? Look at the prices of SFF-8639 gear first and you will see that this is an extremely bad idea cost-wise and I'm not even going to talk about cable management and reliability.

Also, I'm trying to understand why you are talking about SATA HDDs and SSDs issues on the PCIe blade stickie thread since SATA drives have different problems and there are appropriated threads for it. You seems to like to post about tangentially related or totally unrelated issues to the topic on the threads you post, please be a good forum user and don't do it, go to the correct threads/forums.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: trifero

enplaned

macrumors member
Nov 20, 2021
81
41
USA
The reference spreadsheet for SSDs maintained by the subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales refers to WD Green as "garbage":


(see cell N381).

If that seems harsh, look at WD's own datasheet for the SN350 Green NVME drive:


TBW for a 2TB drive? 100TBW. I.e. rewrite the average byte 50 times and you're gone. That's appalling.

Samsung's QVO has a 720TBW for a 2TB SSD. So, while that's lower than a reasonable TLC drive, it's not the steaming pile of crap that is the Green drive. You get to rewrite the average byte 360 times.

WD Green is seriously problematic, to say the least. For some reason, it is popular down in OZ - I've seen a couple of Australian youtubers use them in a build, and winced every time.
 

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
The reference spreadsheet for SSDs maintained by the subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales refers to WD Green as "garbage":


(see cell N381).

If that seems harsh, look at WD's own datasheet for the SN350 Green NVME drive:


TBW for a 2TB drive? 100TBW. I.e. rewrite the average byte 50 times and you're gone. That's appalling.

Samsung's QVO has a 720TBW for a 2TB SSD. So, while that's lower than a reasonable TLC drive, it's not the steaming pile of crap that is the Green drive. You get to rewrite the average byte 360 times.

WD Green is seriously problematic, to say the least. For some reason, it is popular down in OZ - I've seen a couple of Australian youtubers use them in a build, and winced every time.
Incidentally, that address https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales was not useful for me. It showed lists of computer parts for sale.

But to answer your astonishment, the reason why Australians might be buying Green SSDs was probably because they're cheap here, available, and have a decent warranty. they are faster than hard drives, use less energy and run much cooler. Mine was for a SATA connection too.

I have had a WD "green" hard disk for several years and its been reliable. At that time, the WD Blue hard drives were listed by WD as not being Mac OS X compatible. The "Black" WD drives also were listed as Mac OS X compatible, but they were double the price (and I already was using 4 TB WD black SATA hard drive).

I bought the green 1 TB SSD because I needed an extra drive to install Mojave. I bought it because it is was cheap, and it did that install the OS task very well. The price difference between 500 GB and 1 TB SATA was $US30, so I bought the 1 TB. The blue SATA SSD was not much more though - but I had not investigated whether it was compatible with OS X. I was in a rush too. I was cautious about the blue ones due to the hard disks not having been OS X suitable, although that was a couple of years ago. Certainly compared to my old Intel 250GB SSD drive, which has an alloy case, as well as an extra alloy attachment surround as well, which provided side attachment screw holes and top attachment screw holes as well, the Green WD SSD drive has just some side attachment screw holes, no alloy case surround, and the case on the Green does feel like or perhaps it really is, made from cardboard? OK its not Rolls Royce. Did the job though. I was ready to chuck my 5,1 in the bin at the time, just before Christmas.

Also, its often a bottleneck situation. I think the bus in the DVD is half the speed/capacity of the SATA bus intended for the 5,1's four hard drive bays. So will a slower SSD make a big difference if used in the DVD's bus (Mac Pro 5,1)? In the hard disk bus, where there are 4 bays, some sellers like OWC have twin SSD bracket mounts - where one can attach two SSDs, and use the single drive bay ... the two SSDs using the single hard drive SATA bus ... and I think the idea is to RAID the two SSD drives ... but I wonder, what is the point of doing so, if the bus itself is the bottleneck?

As for NVME M.2 etc., I appreciate tsialex listing some el cheapo versions of base cards. I'll check those out. I have checked several times before, the AquaComputer kryoM.2, and for me, they cost only $Au56. But they are never available to me on Amazon, and if I buy direct, Aqua has a shipping cost of $Au100. So all up they cost $Au156. I've a cousin in Germany but I wouldn't want to bother him getting it and then forwarding it to me. DHL would charge $Au45 normally to Australia, but the Aqua company doesn't allow DHL shipments from them to Australia. It's been like that for a long time. B&H don't sell them either, and they ship affordably to Australia and B&H are very efficient.

And I've looked at several Mac compatible cheap PCI solutions on Amazon. And I've read the user comments too. Some beautiful looking pictures of heat sinks, lots of gold, and Mac compatible. But the users say the cards catch fire, and melt, even if they are still working ... it all seems a gamble to me. And here, there are over 100 pages of posts. There is no summary of the many cheap cards out there IMO - there are only a few cards mentioned, and even some of those have had changes in their compatibility which have made a very short choice even shorter, despite the time span since this thread started that has seen lots of cards come onto the market. But the reports of their performance must be buried in the over 2,800 posts in this thread. That is too much for any of us to read IMO.

There are cheap Startech cards available here, from normal PC part vendor shops. Those shops have tight margins. But the cheap Startech cards - such as a $Au69 (that is about $US50) lack any heat sink and also I am unsure about CMP 5.1 OS X usage. So if I add say $Au31 for some third party heat sink solution - my cost is $Au100 for a single slot, 4 times solution.

My RX580 GPU takes up two PCI slots when its in the 2nd slot. I don't even have USB-C. I am unsure if WiFi will work later on, and how (I use ethernet though). Do I want to fill my only PCIx4 slot with a drive card? For $Au100? Or have two of them for $Au200? And Put my GPU into the #1 slot? And keep the x16 #2 slot for a good x16 drive solution? Which may take up two slots itself?

I have always regarded the Highpoints as proven, and I've got in my shopping basket at Amazon a HighPoint SSD7101A-1 - which IMO is good value, in $US its $290. It's four times the cost of a Startech card including putting on my own heat sink solution.

An issue though is will such a card run in the new prospective M processor bottom version Mac Pro? The machine we are all guessing about? I think it will not somehow ... I suspect Apple will not provide PCI slotted M processor low cost Mac Pro machines. So should I minimise my spending? Probably!! But the idea of a cheap x4 card seems a potential waste of money to me, sitting in a x16 slot, and stopping further expansion, plus no hardware RAID processor.

Now talking about the chewing gum stick sized cards, the newer ones are hotter than the older ones. I guess the faster the hotter? Because of these faster and hotter cards, the SSD7101A-1 is now cheaper than it was? Certainly Highpoint's SSSD7104F card is 50% more expensive - for me at least. But in Europe, it is the same price as the HighPoint SSD7101A-1. At the moment. Perhaps the SSSD7104F would be easier to sell if I buy a Mac Pro M late next year? And meanwhile, in the PC world, such chewing gum disk cards seem very cheap, although perhaps they do not have RAID controllers on them. Of course they likely wouldn't work in a 5,1.

But if I had a 7,1 Mac Pro (and I doubt I'll buy one because they are not cheap and used it seems people are not selling them) - the SSSD7104F would be the better choice (if they are compatible etc). But then - perhaps the newer, faster cards cost more?

I am ignorant about these compact digital drives - which is why I am here. For cost though, I always come back to the major issue with the 5,1 - its main bottleneck is having only two x16 PCI slots. And one has a GPU in it. Hence, the best solution seems to be a 16x PCI solution, and one that can fit lots of cards in it. Two isn't enough, because of the x16 bottleneck. Once I buy a single or a duel card for the PCI slot, I've lost that slot and done my money if I realise I need more cards.

I presume buying slower and cooler cards and raiding them, is better value for someone like me ... but I'll also check cheaper options before buying, as very high performance is not required by me ... I just want to get the work done.
 
Last edited:

Fastsavage

macrumors regular
Jun 28, 2011
178
40
New Zealand
As for NVME M.2 etc., I appreciate tsialex listing some el cheapo versions of base cards. I'll check those out. I have checked several times before, the AquaComputer kryoM.2, and for me, they cost only $Au56. But they are never available to me on Amazon, and if I buy direct, Aqua has a shipping cost of $Au100. So all up they cost $Au156. I've a cousin in Germany but I wouldn't want to bother him getting it and then forwarding it to me. DHL would charge $Au45 normally to Australia, but the Aqua company doesn't allow DHL shipments from them to Australia. It's been like that for a long time. B&H don't sell them either, and they ship affordably to Australia and B&H are very efficient.
I am in New Zealand and just bought a AquaCompurt KryoM.2 and it cost me AU$51 plus AU$77 shipping. really expensive shipping but not much choice really:) - don't see them available on eBay or Amazon, so just had to bit the bullet and do it

This is from the German site rather than the Aussie one - its cheaper :)



Screen Shot 2022-01-01 at 21.26.45.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Melbourne Park

Melbourne Park

macrumors 65816
Tanks
I am in New Zealand and just bought a AquaCompurt KryoM.2 and it cost me AU$51 plus AU$77 shipping. really expensive shipping but not much choice really:) - don't see them available on eBay or Amazon, so just had to bit the bullet and do it

This is from the German site rather than the Aussie one - its cheaper :)

Thanks! I'm now wondering how much mail from NZ to Oz is!!! Buying a few might lower the shipping mail price.

I checked both places too, and from Germany to Australia was a hundred Aussie bucks. And Melbourne is 2,000 km closer to Frankfurt than is Auckland.

I suspect I am dominated by "value" - rather than my short term need. Or perhaps I just don't how much I'l benefit from extra speed and capacity. But I do think that these chewing gum drives will fall in price, although with Covid that still might take some time ...

With the USA, Australia Post uses a company in the USA to forward local mail bought items to Australian addresses, which results in much cheaper shipping. But Australia Post is stopping the service I think early this year ... which might mean USA to Australia prices will likely increase from many companies.

Checking at Deutsch Post (who incidentally own DHL and they are the "largest" shipping company in the world although I'm not sure what "largest" means), their charge for a half kg parcel bigger than these cards, is 9.5 Euro with limited packaging and insured for 35 Euro; and with 100 euro insurance, the cost is 11.5 euro.

Deutch Post Pricing.jpg
 
Last edited:

MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,697
2,096
UK
Happy New Year.
Try Amazon UK for a Kryo M2 card.
I can order from USA Amazon (to UK) quite often cheaper shipping (or the same, especially if shipped by Amazon direct) than from UK store.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.