MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[rivangom]

Dear audience. I got a question about the HighPoint SSD7101A-1 driver for Monterey 12.6.1 . In Big Sur the driver is loaded and can use the HighPoint RAID Management.webloc webbased interface, but no pleasure for me with Monterey. Highly appreciated if anyone can give some guidance in here.
Many thanks!

 

[rylim]

Dear audience. I got a question about the HighPoint SSD7101A-1 driver for Monterey 12.6.1 . In Big Sur the driver is loaded and can use the HighPoint RAID Management.webloc webbased interface, but no pleasure for me with Monterey. Highly appreciated if anyone can give some guidance in here.
Many thanks!

Would recommend you to reinstall the driver as I had the same issue a few months ago.

This might helpful to you:

How to manually load the HighPoint NVMe RAID Driver for macOS Big Sur

How to manually load the HighPoint NVMe RAID Driver for macOS Big Sur 1. Test Description In some cases, macOS 11.x may not load the NVMe driver after the

highpoint-technologies-inc.helpjuice.com

 

[mode11]

WD/SanDisk are known to use the same model nomenclature for completely different blades, a thing that Samsung and Kingston were also caught doing, see the new 970 EVO+ and the NV1.

Cache design/behavior also greatly affects the write speed, Samsung drives seems to have a very decent write cache management algorithm, not totally perfect, but really above the rest of the market for the old EVO+ and all Pro model

Could you recommend a (1TB) NVMe drive? My 960 Evo has the irritating TRIM issue. The GitHub page you linked to listed the SN750 as working fine, but then Matty_TypeR seemed to get poor results (due to undocumented production changes).

Page 1 has drives listed as incompatible that the GitHub page lists as working fine, so it's hard to know what will work. I'm using a passive Kyro adapter, so no need for super speed - just want something consistent.

Intel 760p? One of the Sabrent Rocket models?

 

[tsialex]

Could you recommend a (1TB) NVMe drive? My 960 Evo has the irritating TRIM issue.

I remember that 960 EVO was one the worst Samsung blades with TRIM, albeit nothing near the SM951-AHCI.

The GitHub page you linked to listed the SN750 as working fine, but then Matty_TypeR seemed to get poor results (due to undocumented production changes).

I don't tolerate any shenanigans with model numbers and I've stopped buying WD or SanDisk blades for at least 3 years already.

Kingston is also one that I try my best to avoid nowadays, but for the low-end of the market the choice is usually Kingston/Patriot or Chinese brands that you never heard of before. Kingston A400 SATA SSDs at least works as expected.

Page 1 has drives listed as incompatible that the GitHub page lists as working fine, so it's hard to know what will work.

If you talking about the OC GitHub thread about TRIM, people with hacks have better compatibility than us, so it's not reliable to follow any lists prepared with hacks in mind or with the majority of hack owners.

From the start, hacks usually have PCIe v3.0/4.0, so they don't have the issues with PCIe v2.0 that MacPro5,1 and MacPro6,1 have.

I'm using a passive Kyro adapter, so no need for super speed - just want something consistent.

I'm using a 970 PRO 512GB with one of my Mac Pros as the main disk, works pretty fine, while 970 EVO+ 2TB with another Mac Pro, this one I've noticed that once in a while it takes more time to boot, but since I hardly shutdown, it's not an issue for me. The standard Samsung 980 seems to be much more affected by TRIM than the 970 EVO+, I'd avoid it.

Kioxia, Toshiba Memory spun off after Bain Capital become majority holder, XG-5/XG5-P and XG6/XG6-P blades seem to be pretty reliable, very cool, fast and with TRIM working as expected. These are 4K sector blades and work even with Sierra. The problem is to find one, even more difficult is to find one with a decent price. Seems to be the best blades that you can install to a late-2013 Mac Pro. I'd love to get a 2TB XG6-P for the MacPro6,1 I'm resurrecting.

 

[mode11]

I'm using a 970 PRO 512GB with one of my Mac Pros as the main disk, works pretty fine, while 970 EVO+ 2TB with another Mac Pro, this one I've noticed that once in a while it takes more time to boot, but since I hardly shutdown, it's not an issue for me.

OK, I think I'll go with a 970 Pro then. Does this TRIM OK such that writes don't progressively slow down? I reboot infrequently.

In terms of upgrading, can I simply clone the current internal drive to a new NVMe drive in a USB enclosure, then power off and swap the new drive into my PCIe adapter? Would Disk Utility be best for this? I also have CCC.

 

[hwojtek]

In terms of upgrading, can I simply clone the current internal drive to a new NVMe drive in a USB enclosure, then power off and swap the new drive into my PCIe adapter? Would Disk Utility be best for this? I also have CCC.

DU is not very good at cloning. CCC will do the job just right.

 

[mode11]

Great, thanks. With recent versions of macOS, when CCC back-ups my system disk it only copies the Data container and therefore isn't bootable. I can't remember if I was given an option there; can it be set to do an exact copy?

Edit - it can: cloning-macos-system-volumes-apple-software-restore

It's not clear whether a clone done in this way includes the Recovery partition; I assume so.

Edit - it does: #280

 

[mode11]

I'm using a 970 PRO 512GB with one of my Mac Pros as the main disk, works pretty fine

I bought a 970 PRO and cloned over the install from my 960 EVO. All working fine so far and boot times are fast. Successive runs with Blackmagic Speed Test show consistently high read / write too. I'm aware that the SSD will have essentially no fragmentation at this point, however.

Are you running Monterey yet on your MP 5,1 with the 970 PRO? Are you using a trim timeout value of 4294967295? Do you find boot times are generally quick? I saw a previous post where you said booting with the PRO sometimes takes a couple of minutes, so just checking if my upgrade will prove worthwhile in the long run.

You also mentioned somewhere about possibly switching to over-provisioning when you moved to Monterey, due to the removal of trim timeout control on that OS. Did you need to do this in the end? If so, what size of unallocated partition would you consider worthwhile for a 1TB SSD? Thanks!

 

[tsialex]

I bought a 970 PRO and cloned over the install from my 960 EVO. All working fine so far and boot times are fast. Successive runs with Blackmagic Speed Test show consistently high read / write too. I'm aware that the SSD will have essentially no fragmentation at this point, however.

Fragmentation doesn't really matter for solid storage media.

Are you running Monterey yet on your MP 5,1 with the 970 PRO? Are you using a trim timeout value of 4294967295?

Yes.

Do you find boot times are generally quick? I saw a previous post where you said booting with the PRO sometimes takes a couple of minutes, so just checking if my upgrade will prove worthwhile in the long run.

Over time this will change, TRIM will be needed. A new blade have all sectors empty.

You also mentioned somewhere about possibly switching to over-provisioning when you moved to Monterey, due to the removal of trim timeout control on that OS. Did you need to do this in the end? If so, what size of unallocated partition would you consider worthwhile for a 1TB SSD? Thanks!

It's an easy and simple way to always have the best performance from the blade. Every one have a way to do over provision, most people keep a 10 to 20% unallocated. Video editing people usually prefer even more, I've saw editors with 1/3 of the storage unallocated, but this is probably only justified for this type of workflow and a waste for everyone else.

 

[mode11]

If I leave say 10% of the SSD unallocated, will this mean that drive writes don't (meaningfully) slow down over time? And there will never be much of a delay at boot?

Do you keep some space unallocated, or just tolerate the occasional long boot time?

Does the EVO have additional issues with trimming vs the PRO, that causes it to be more prone to slowing down, and take longer to trim blocks at boot?

 

[tsialex]

If I leave say 10% of the SSD unallocated, will this mean that drive writes don't (meaningfully) slow down over time?

Depends heavily on your workflow, if you don't have a lots of erases doesn't make sense to do it, but that's the idea.

And there will never be much of a delay at boot?

Not related, at boot is when the TRIM process takes care of the sectors that need to be trimmed in advance, you will always have sectors to be trimmed.

Unallocated space only helps when you consistently have lot's of writes.

Do you keep some space unallocated, or just tolerate the occasional long boot time?

I usually keep at least 10% unallocated. More depending the workflow for the Mac.

Does the EVO have additional issues with trimming vs the PRO, that causes it to be more prone to slowing down, and take longer to trim blocks at boot?

Did not investigate why, but I've noticed it over time, like I've wrote before.

 

[mode11]

Does the 970 PRO TRIM in the background from time to time? I believe so, but from what I gather, only every few days, and only if left idle.

If an SSD had an aggressive background TRIM algorithm, would trimming at boot be essentially unnecessary?

 

[tsialex]

Does the 970 PRO TRIM in the background from time to time? I believe so, but from what I gather, only every few days, and only if left idle.

Would be better to ask this question for Samsung own support people, no? Outside Samsung developers, you won't get an answer that is not based on observation.

If an SSD had an aggressive background TRIM algorithm, would trimming at boot be essentially unnecessary?

My take on this is extremely simplistic, if Apple FS engineers/developers thought that it was unnecessary, why add it, since is a procedure that takes considerable time at boot, at a moment that all eyes are on the screen.

It's really necessary and SM951-AHCI/SSUBX are the best prove, without OS TRIM enabled, both are very much unusable over time when using APFS and with an almost full disk.

 

[mode11]

Would be better to ask this question for Samsung own support people, no? Outside Samsung developers, you won't get an answer that is not based on observation.

Tbh I'd expect to get more sense out of asking you than Samsung. You seem pretty knowledgeable in this area, so thought you'd probably have an insight.

My take on this is extremely simplistic, if Apple FS engineers/developers thought that it was unnecessary, why add it, since is a procedure that takes considerable time at boot, at a moment that all eyes are on the screen.

I wasn't disputing you, I was just trying to understand what's going on. I get that it's sometimes necessary to do an extended TRIM at boot, I was just wondering if this is because many drives (particularly Samsung) don't do so regularly enough in the background. Do e.g. Kioxia drives also spend a noticeable amount of time trimming at boot?

My only experience with OEM NVMe Apple SSDs has been with a lightly-used 2015 MBP, where I hadn't noticed anything. I thought perhaps this issue was more prominent due to using a retail Samsung NVMe drive in a 2009 Mac, and that macOS might better manage TRIM with OEM drives and / or later hardware.

 

[debonis]

I'm using a Samsung SSD 980 PRO 1TB | S5GXNXOT844187L with the current firmware 5B2QGXA7 on a a Mac Pro Mid 2010. I'm running Monterey with OpenCore Legacy Patcher (0.53).

The adapter is OWC Accelsior 1M2.

The drive shows in Disk Utility, but it is not bootable.

I assume I should have looked at page 1 first in this blog, before buying a blade.

Is there any possibility to make this drive bootable or is the only way to get another blade?

 

[hwojtek]

It's right in this thread. Won't work properly on a dumb adapter, needs a real one with PCIe switch.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/post-30850790

 

[joevt]

I'm using a Samsung SSD 980 PRO 1TB | S5GXNXOT844187L with the current firmware 5B2QGXA7 on a a Mac Pro Mid 2010. I'm running Monterey with OpenCore Legacy Patcher (0.53).

The adapter is OWC Accelsior 1M2.

The drive shows in Disk Utility, but it is not bootable.

I assume I should have looked at page 1 first in this blog, before buying a blade.

Is there any possibility to make this drive bootable or is the only way to get another blade?

The drive should be bootable if OpenCore is on a normal SATA drive and loads the NVMe driver.
1500 MB/s should work with a dumb adapter like the OWC Accelsior 1M2. A PCIe switch is needed only if you want to get faster than that (x8 for 3500 MB/s, x16 for 6000 MB/s)

 

[debonis]

It's right in this thread. Won't work properly on a dumb adapter, needs a real one with PCIe switch.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/post-30850790

Thank you. So if I understand it right, this dumb adapter doesn't work at all with a PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD for booting. But it would work for example with a Samsung 970 EVO Plus with current firmware?

 

[debonis]

The drive should be bootable if OpenCore is on a normal SATA drive and loads the NVMe driver.
1500 MB/s should work with a dumb adapter like the OWC Accelsior 1M2. A PCIe switch is needed only if you want to get faster than that (x8 for 3500 MB/s, x16 for 6000 MB/s)

Thanks you.The speed would be ok. I tried this but still can not boot from the drive. I have a SATA SSD with the EFI partition and NVMe enabled in the OpenCore Legacy Patcher. The disk shows up when starting the install process, it also installs for about 25 Minutes, but then the installing just goes into a loop.

I also looked at the PCIe switches on page 1, but find it difficult to find one that is currently also available and affordable.

 

[hwojtek]

I also looked at the PCIe switches on page 1, but find it difficult to find one that is currently also available and affordable.

I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PRN2QCV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and am quite happy with it.

 

[debonis]

I use https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PRN2QCV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and am quite happy with it.

Thank you for the tip! This is not available in Switzerland, so I keep looking.

 

[hwojtek]

Too bad, they've sent it to me in Poland within 3 days.

 

[Wayne Keyz]

I have now bought two different NVme card installers the Startech and the Ow Accelsior M.2 4X4 and none of them seem to work with my 2009 Mac Pro 5.1 with the latest firmware 144,000.00. I have a 12 core 2x 3.46 Intel processors with 96 Gb of ram. the cards do not show up at all in the PCie slot? When I put in a Nume ssd whether it be a Samsung 980 or Sabient Rocket the MP does not provide a video output no visible screen. With the Startech there would be no startup chime with the OWC it would have the startup chime as long as there are no SSD installed but again no video output screen just black ? Can somebody please help me as I have now ordered the Sonnet M.2 4X4 Silent card hoping to get it working? Are there some MP 4.1 Motherboards that arent Compatible? Please advise

 

[tsialex]

I have now bought two different NVme card installers the Startech and the Ow Accelsior M.2 4X4 and none of them seem to work with my 2009 Mac Pro 5.1 with the latest firmware 144,000.00. I have a 12 core 2x 3.46 Intel processors with 96 Gb of ram. the cards do not show up at all in the PCie slot? When I put in a Nume ssd whether it be a Samsung 980 or Sabient Rocket the MP does not provide a video output no visible screen. With the Startech there would be no startup chime with the OWC it would have the startup chime as long as there are no SSD installed but again no video output screen just black ? Can somebody please help me as I have now ordered the Sonnet M.2 4X4 Silent card hoping to get it working? Are there some MP 4.1 Motherboards that arent Compatible? Please advise

Samsung 980 series is very problematic with MacPro4,1/5,1/6,1, not all blade models work and it's a very picky blade usually working just with PCIe switched adapters. Maybe it's better to exchange it for a Samsung 970 EVO Plus.

Said that, I've got a Samsung 980 512MB (non PRO model) working with a HighPoint SSD7101A-1. Which model exactly do you have?

Btw, all versions of early-2009 backplanes work with PCIe switched cards once the firmware is correctly updated. If you still have problems with a known working blade, like Samsung 970 EVO Plus - see the first post of this thread for more options - then you can have BootROM problems.

 

[willrice]

I have now bought two different NVme card installers the Startech and the Ow Accelsior M.2 4X4 and none of them seem to work with my 2009 Mac Pro 5.1 with the latest firmware 144,000.00. I have a 12 core 2x 3.46 Intel processors with 96 Gb of ram. the cards do not show up at all in the PCie slot? When I put in a Nume ssd whether it be a Samsung 980 or Sabient Rocket the MP does not provide a video output no visible screen. With the Startech there would be no startup chime with the OWC it would have the startup chime as long as there are no SSD installed but again no video output screen just black ? Can somebody please help me as I have now ordered the Sonnet M.2 4X4 Silent card hoping to get it working? Are there some MP 4.1 Motherboards that arent Compatible? Please advise

I have a 12 core (3.46GHz) Mac Pro 4,1 patched to 5,1 (boot ROM 144.0.0.0.0), running macOS Mojave 10.14.6, with an RX580 (slot 2) and a Sonnet Fusion 4x4 M/2 (slot 1) installed. It boots & runs flawlessly from my Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 500GB (rev 2B2QEXM7, PCIe gen 3.0) as the OS drive, but it (almost always) fails to recognise my 3 new WD SN850X 4TB blades (f/w 624311WD, PCIe gen 4.0). The SN850Xs also do not work in an alternate NVMe host card (SilverStone ECM22).

On occasion I've had to either wait for boot from the recovery partition, or boot from USB installation media to set the appropriate boot drive (as my RX580 + Mojave combo does not allow the use of the alt key boot media selector).

Another friend of mine has reported success with Corsair Force MP510 4TB (CSSD-F4000GBMP510, PCIe gen 3.0) blade in an identical 4,1 -> 5,1 machine.

So my experience is that it's the choice of NVMe blades which is critical for compatibility, rather than the host card.