MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[flyproductions]

By vertical, I mean that the PCIe connector is closer to the earth. Your picture shows a horizontal orientation.

Sorry for missunderstanding! I was thinking you were talking of any kind of relocation of the second x16.

Vertical mount (using a 90º angle adapter?) should come along with two major problems:

At least with a full size card like mine or the HighPoint, available height above slot 2 should be insufficient. Might work with low profile cards. But these don't block the GPU-fans anyway.

Airflow! At least with the card's (very noisy) fan removed, what i did, there should be just to little troughput with the card more or less flat to the mainboard, while in the horizontal position, the expansion-card-fan blows right trough the heatsink.

 

[joevt]

Sorry for missunderstanding! I was thinking you were talking of any kind of relocation of the second x16.

Vertical mount (using a 90º angle adapter?) should come along with two major problems:

At least with a full size card like mine or the HighPoint, available height above slot 2 should be insufficient. Might work with low profile cards. But these don't block the GPU-fans anyway.

Airflow! At least with the card's (very noisy) fan removed, what i did, there should be just to little troughput with the card more or less flat to the mainboard, while in the horizontal position, the expansion-card-fan blows right trough the heatsink.

Vertically over all the PCIe slots including slot 1 like where I had these SSDs positioned:
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/macpro3-1-dual-2-5-mod-4-jpg.1731303/

 

[flyproductions]

Vertically over all the PCIe slots including slot 1 like where I had these SSDs positioned:
https://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/macpro3-1-dual-2-5-mod-4-jpg.1731303/

Looks nice...

...but, as these PCIe-relocation cables are very not that flexible, it would possibly not that easy to manage it over/around the GPU. Also i'm afraid there would be just not enough room between the GPU and the side panel for a setup like this. Especially with the EVGA-Powerlink i'm using with the GPU.

 

[w1z]

If anyone's interested in getting P-Series (consumer) Solidigm blades from Sk Hynix - they're limited to 512B LBA sector sizes. I've instead opted for the P41 Platinum.

 

[flyproductions]

My 970 PRO also suffers it from time to time, but it's tolerable without needing to disable TRIM or apply any workarounds like SetApfsTrimTimeout,...

I'm using two 2TB 980 PROs on a switched card for a week by now and did not come across any problems in general use so far...

...except – of course – the expecatple boot delay. As, in most cases, i only boot the machine once a day, this isn't that much of a problem to me. But, as it can be easily avoided by disabeling TRIM via OC's config, are there any general cons in doing so?

 

[Php4u]

While this may be a bit off topic, it is relevant to the NVMe + PCIe card topic.

I have my 2010 cMP with 2x X5690s, RX 5600 XT, and a Lycom D-130 dual NVMe PCIe card running Monterey great. But when I try to update to Ventura, the installer appears to work, but when it comes time to boot Ventura, the boot process stalls and about 40% on the progression bar with the Apple logo. I did try both the upgrade and clean install via USB installer, but both failed. I also reset NVRAM.

Is there a special process needed to upgrade to Ventura on a NVMe drive?

 

[MacNB2]

While this may be a bit off topic, it is relevant to the NVMe + PCIe card topic.

I have my 2010 cMP with 2x X5690s, RX 5600 XT, and a Lycom D-130 dual NVMe PCIe card running Monterey great. But when I try to update to Ventura, the installer appears to work, but when it comes time to boot Ventura, the boot process stalls and about 40% on the progression bar with the Apple logo. I did try both the upgrade and clean install via USB installer, but both failed. I also reset NVRAM.

Is there a special process needed to upgrade to Ventura on a NVMe drive?

Yes off topic. It's not related to your PCIe NVMe card.
You cannot simply boot Ventura on cmp using the normal "manually configured OpenCore process". Much has changed in Ventura. The installer is relatively "simple" but once installed, several patches need to be applied to enable it to boot fully.
Your only option is to use OpenCore Legacy Patcher (OCLP) and configure it for your cmp. There's a thread for OCLP & Ventura.

 

[NoLemon]

New problem =)

Hello again, does any one know why a PCIE - AHCI Boot Drive isn´t seen over the network on another Mac ?

There is no Open Core installed, its just plain 10.14.6.
Can Open Core fix that ?

Just before I installed the Innie.Kext.
The boot drive is now shown as internal.
But, I was hoping that fixes the Network problem.
I tried it with a Boot Drive and also a User Alias on a drive which shows over Network.
Unfortunately that works exactly once, then it is converted to a Alias pointing to the Mac im on, looking at the Network, even if it is locked over the hook in "get Info".

-> Thanks
Lemon =)

 

[StormLord]

New problem =)

Hello again, does any one know why a PCIE - AHCI Boot Drive isn´t seen over the network on another Mac ?

There is no Open Core installed, its just plain 10.14.6.
Can Open Core fix that ?

Just before I installed the Innie.Kext.
The boot drive is now shown as internal.
But, I was hoping that fixes the Network problem.
I tried it with a Boot Drive and also a User Alias on a drive which shows over Network.
Unfortunately that works exactly once, then it is converted to a Alias pointing to the Mac im on, looking at the Network, even if it is locked over the hook in "get Info".

-> Thanks
Lemon =)

there is no reason to not be able to share the drive, as long as Operating System sees it and have it mounted. It has nothing to do with either external or internal and nothing to do with hardware connection.
If OS can mount it, it can share it no matter what.
Check your network sharing properties, and reset it again.

 

[NoLemon]

Well it does not for some reason ... =)
Network is ok permissions also. Could it be because it is AHCI ?

 

[flyproductions]

So i just updated to 12.6.8. Don't really know for sure, if it came with this. But boot-delay with the 980 PRO increased to nearly 6(!) minutes from button pressed to the desktop now. Was about 3 Minutes before, shortly after installing the 980s. Once the machine is booted, everything works nice and smooth. As i normaly just boot once a day, it is not that much of a problem. But i hope it will not increase any further.

Also i tried disabeling TRIM with OC. Booting accellerated to 1' 45" to the desktop. But this renders the machine somehow unusable. At least for the first few minutes after boot. Every click of the mouse is answered by a beachball. Apps like browser launch with delay up to half a minute. And everything feels very laggy. Behaviour normalizes after a few minutes. But i re-enabeled TRIM as i much prefer a flawless working over a fast booting machine.

Is all that normal/expectable behaviour?

(Yes, i know: 980 PRO isn't the first recommendation. But i wanted them for the better value of a 4.0-blade if i ever switch to a more modern machine in the future)

 

[tsialex]

So i just updated to 12.6.8. Don't really know for sure, if it came with this. But boot-delay with the 980 PRO increased to nearly 6(!) minutes from button pressed to the desktop now. Was about 3 Minutes before, shortly after installing the 980s. Once the machine is booted, everything works nice and smooth. As i normaly just boot once a day, it is not that much of a problem. But i hope it will not increase any further.

Also i tried disabeling TRIM with OC. Booting accellerated to 1' 45" to the desktop. But this renders the machine somehow unusable. At least for the first few minutes after boot. Every click of the mouse is answered by a beachball. Apps like browser launch with delay up to half a minute. And everything feels very laggy. Behaviour normalizes after a few minutes. But i re-enabeled TRIM as i much prefer a flawless working over a fast booting machine.

I had exactly that with a Samsung SM951, where macOS TRIM never works correctly and Samsung never issued a firmware correcting it, after it become full some times (all NAND sectors already being in use multiple times). Only forcing TRIM with fsck -fy with Single User mode would get it back to normal.

Also had that with a 970PRO when I've tried to fully disable TRIM with Catalina.

Is all that normal/expectable behaviour?

This is highly workflow dependent, some people that never fill a blade completely or use it as data only will never see this happening. But in resume, for some blades, yes, this is the expectable behavior.

 

[flyproductions]

This is highly workflow dependent, some people that never fill a blade completely or use it as data only will never see this happening. But in resume, for some blades, yes, this is the expectable behavior.

Thanks for your reply!

...but today i experienced some other finally pleasing, but even more odd behaviour:
On first try, the Mac was hanging at boot. Trying to reboot, i got some kernel panic. So i decided to do a SMC reset. After that, it booted up as if the TRIM-problems never existed at all! 1' 15" to the desktop, which was half a minute faster than before with TRIM completely disabeled! And fully usable right from the start! No delayed launch of startup items. No lagging at launching apps at all. Nothing!

I tried another boot: Fast again! A third one after using the machine for a while: Booting slow again. Nearly 6 Minutes.

But behaviour can be repeated! I did another SMC reset: Booting fast again! So, as a workaround for the slow booting, looks like i just have to switch the powerstrip of after shutdown. And in the morning switch it on, wait for 5 seconds. Good to go! Will try to see if this works from now on.

Edit:
Sadly seems to be not completely repeatable. I did some more testing with SMC-reset before each boot with mixed results. Sometimes slow booting again. Sometimes fast booting, but delayed launching of system apps like the menu bar or login-items, similar to when i had TRIM disabeled.

 

[MarkC426]

So, as a workaround for the slow booting, looks like i just have to switch the powerstrip of after shutdown. And in the morning switch it on, wait for 5 seconds. Good to go! Will try to see if this works from now on.

If your using your Mac every day, why turn it off......
Just put it to sleep.

My Mac Pro only restarts a couple of times a year (only for hw updates or software requiring a restart).

 

[flyproductions]

If your using your Mac every day, why turn it off......
Just put it to sleep.

More like a habit that survived from the High Sierra / GTX 1080 days. The nVIDIA, at least the one i had, didn't wake from sleep.

But also i think it's not such a bad idea to reset things from time to time.

 

[NoLemon]

Ok, so, Both computers have the same Network setting. File Sharing, Remote Login and Remote management on. over the Network, on the 5.1 CMP, I it mounts all folders in Home which are on the Mini. On the Mini I cant see any Folders of the Home Folder, the system is on a Samsung PCI AHCI Blade. I can only the four disks in the drive bays. The System drive in Info are the same also. Weird...

 

[PeterHolbrook]

I have recently installed a Crucial P3 Plus 4TB M.2 PCIe Gen3 NVMe SSD and the OWC - Accelsior 1M2 - NVMe M.2 SSD to PCIe 4.0 adapter enclosure on my old Mac Pro 5,1 that runs Monterey 12.6.8 via Open Core (not OCLP). I'm very pleased with the performance of the SSD, but have one issue to report. When I boot up the computer and do some work, the Mac Pro will eventually go to sleep after several minutes of inactivity. Then pressing a key or moving the mouse pointer will wake up the computer without any issues, and this sleep/wake up cycle may repeat itself several more times. However, there comes a time when the computer will no longer go to sleep in periods of inactivity. I've been unable to detect the circumstance when this happens. No backup or transmission processes running, et cetera.

Is this a known problem? Is there a way to fix it?

 

[sailmac]

I have recently installed a Crucial P3 Plus 4TB M.2 PCIe Gen3 NVMe SSD and the OWC - Accelsior 1M2 - NVMe M.2 SSD to PCIe 4.0 adapter enclosure on my old Mac Pro 5,1 that runs Monterey 12.6.8 via Open Core (not OCLP). I'm very pleased with the performance of the SSD, but have one issue to report. When I boot up the computer and do some work, the Mac Pro will eventually go to sleep after several minutes of inactivity. Then pressing a key or moving the mouse pointer will wake up the computer without any issues, and this sleep/wake up cycle may repeat itself several more times. However, there comes a time when the computer will no longer go to sleep in periods of inactivity. I've been unable to detect the circumstance when this happens. No backup or transmission processes running, et cetera.

Is this a known problem? Is there a way to fix it?

Might have nothing to do with the NVMe SSD you are using. Have you run 'pmset -g assertions' in Terminal to see what process(es) prevent Sleep? I've been running 12.6.7 (OCLP 0.6.7) and weirdly encountered an instance whereby adding a photo in the Contacts app caused it to prevent sleep until I quit the app.

 

[PeterHolbrook]

I’ll look into it. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[PeterHolbrook]

I got this:

Idle sleep preventers: IODisplayWrangler

I have no idea how to fix it. Oddly enough, the computer would go to sleep without issues before I installed NVMe SSD. And now, sleep will work for a few minutes or hours if the computer is idle, but not after some undetermined point.

 

[tsialex]

I'm running a late-2013 Mac Pro with a WD_BLACK SN770 2TB (Firmware: 731100WD) + a Sintech green adapter + Snowman M.2 heatsink for a little over a month:

I've initially bought it for a PC, but decided to try it with my MacPro6,1 instead. I did not edited/converted videos, used VMs or anything that required constant and intensive disk access, pretty much lightweight usage so far. I've noticed that the SN770 is a little slower than my previous Samsung 970 EVO+ 2TB, but nothing major.

Let's see how it behaves when I push it overtime, other people did have issues with the SN770 and it's not a recommended blade on this thread.

 

[jrstrong69]

Some WD Black models are PCIe 3.0 2x and the throughput is limited to 750MB/s with a MP5,1 or MP6,1. Current models are PCIe 3.0 4x, but since the names are the same…

Buy a Samsung 970 EVO or PRO, don't buy a 970 EVO Plus.

My WD Black nVme PCI drive is giving my 2009 cMP Duel 2.26 Xeons 'near' 1500mb r/w according to Black Magic speed test

 

[jrstrong69]

I got this:

Idle sleep preventers: IODisplayWrangler

I have no idea how to fix it. Oddly enough, the computer would go to sleep without issues before I installed NVMe SSD. And now, sleep will work for a few minutes or hours if the computer is idle, but not after some undetermined point.

I'm having an OLD Mac Classic '68k/PPC' problem where my 2009 cMP will randomly FREEZE for some unknown reason after hours inside Monterey 12.6.6 'booting' from a 1tb WD Black nVme PCI drive! This happened more frequently when I started at 16gb on my Dual 2.26 Xeon machine, but less at 32g? I've got 2x 3.33 6-core Xeon's. but I want to see if they work before delidding them?

 

[mrkapqa]

question: i could get a like-pristine/used 512GB Samsung 970 Pro or for around the same price a new 1TB 970 Evo Plus for future use with possibly Lycom DT-130. Since i have other drives/SSD in the MacPro, and also a NAS,
would take into consideration buying the used 970 Pro drive, even if it only 512 GB space.

are there any heavy advantages of the 512 970 Pro over the 1 TB 970 Evo Plus?
have read about 4KN reads alot faster, but don§t know what this means in real-life usage.

Thanks for the help.


EDIT: according to Samsung Homepage the IOPS for 1TB 970 Evo Plus are better to 512GB 970 Pro in every regard, but the mayor difference seems be 970 Pro being 2-Bit MLC and 970 Evo PLUS 3-Bit MLC? does this matter?

 

[w1z]

are there any heavy advantages of the 512 970 Pro over the 1 TB 970 Evo Plus?
have read about 4KN reads alot faster, but don§t know what this means in real-life usage.

Go with a P31 Gold or P41 Platinum Sk Hynix blade, convert the drive to use 4Kn LBA sector then either do a clean install and migrate or clone (I did a clean install). I've used the referenced Samsung drives, top of the line models, but have reassigned them as time machine backup and scratch drives because of 20+ second boot delay and lack of 4Kn. Currently using the P41 Platinum 2TB as my primary drive and I wish I had bought it earlier, night and day difference.

4Kn format, which Apple uses with their drives, will provide you a noticeable bump in random read/write speeds and you'll notice this when booting into macOS, loading apps, opening the Applications and other heavily populated folders and having the apps' or files' icons fully loaded before scrolling... Overall, you'll have a snappy experience with macOS.

This also applies to virtual machines with a bit of undocumented virtual disk tweaking (I'm using Parallels for Mac Pro) as most if not all virtualization software use 512 LBA sector format with no option to create 4Kn virtual drives.

With non-Samsung drives, you won't experience the prolonged boot delay when booting into macOS. Windows is not impacted.