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crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,847
1,957
Charlotte, NC

Yeah, looking back at your earlier posts, I ruled out my own thoughts on the matter, and deleted it.

Keep in mind, with most SSD’s, 1TB is the sweet spot for speed. 512GB models are generally somewhat slower. I thought the Sabrent was the same as the addlink performance wise but I’m not 100% sure. My addlink 1TB gives me about 3080-3090 on both read/write using AmorphousDiskMark. Using AJA it’s a little under 3000. If using your PCIe adapter, I would expect about 1500 read/write with my addlink blade.

It could be normal for that particular blade. At this point IDK.. :confused:
 
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jbarley

macrumors 601
Jul 1, 2006
4,023
1,895
Vancouver Island
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,968
4,262
What type of adapter does one need to get these "3000" numbers I keep reading about?
Some "brand-model" names would be good.:D
For a Mac Pro or any slot limited to PCIe 2.0, a card with a PCIe switch chip and at least 8 upstream lanes is required to get over 1500 MB/s (and they can achieve that only in slot 1 or slot 2). These cards include two, four, or six M.2 slots. Amfeltec, Highpoint, and Sonnet make such cards. Cards that require bifurcation (don't have a PCIe switch chip) will not work.
 
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jbarley

macrumors 601
Jul 1, 2006
4,023
1,895
Vancouver Island
For a Mac Pro or any slot limited to PCIe 2.0, a card with a PCIe switch chip and at least 8 upstream lanes is required to get over 1500 MB/s (and they can achieve that only in slot 1 or slot 2). These cards include two, four, or six M.2 slots. Amfeltec, Highpoint, and Sonnet make such cards. Cards that require bifurcation (don't have a PCIe switch chip) will not work.
Thank you for the clear explanation.:)
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
678_678x452.jpg
Stupid SSD of the day, TeamGroup closed loop water cooled M.2.

Now you can brag that you have a M.2 closed loop water cooled SSD. Enormous 10ºC down compared with a M.2 without any heatsink.

Team Group’s T-Force Cardea Liquid: A Liquid-Cooled M.2 SSD

Btw, AquaComputer has a open loop version of kryoM.2: kryoM.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 adapter for M.2 NGFF PCIe SSD, M-Key with water block
 

broink

macrumors newbie
Apr 18, 2019
3
0
Bucharest, Romania
Anyone has or tested the ADATA XPG SX8200 PRO 256GB in a cMP 5.1(4.1)? The ssd has a heatsink included in package.

I'm planning to use it with a simple adaptor (NVMe AHCI PCIe x4 M.2 NGFF SSD to PCIE 3.0 x4) in slot 3 or 4. 1500mbs speed its fine for me.
 

yukdave

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2017
52
14
Dash Point, WA
Another stupid question. Can someone explain how when I do a systems report and look at NVMExpress that is has the NVMExpress Device Tree and has two volumes: First Volume is an EFI: with MS-DOS FAT32 for 209.7MB and another volume which is 1TB and Apple-APFS? What is the Dos Volume for?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Another stupid question. Can someone explain how when I do a systems report and look at NVMExpress that is has the NVMExpress Device Tree and has two volumes: First Volume is an EFI: with MS-DOS FAT32 for 209.7MB and another volume which is 1TB and Apple-APFS? What is the Dos Volume for?
EFI partition.
 
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frenchieisverige

macrumors newbie
May 22, 2018
13
6
Hi all,

I'm looking for the chepeast and simpliest option to increase hard drive speeds on my cMP3,1.
I've read that AHCI blades work OOB, i would prefer this option since i don't want to mess with NVME drives that requires some flashing.

I only need one slot but if i can have two slots, it would be nice (dual-boot with Linux)

What options do I have?

Thanks in advance,

FrenchieiSverige
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Hi all,

I'm looking for the chepeast and simpliest option to increase hard drive speeds on my cMP3,1.
I've read that AHCI blades work OOB, i would prefer this option since i don't want to mess with NVME drives that requires some flashing.

I only need one slot but if i can have two slots, it would be nice (dual-boot with Linux)

What options do I have?

Thanks in advance,

FrenchieiSverige
Samsung has two M.2 AHCI models, XP941 and SM951-AHCI. Kingston has the Predator AHCI.

SM951-AHCI have a trim firmware problem and Kingston Predator AHCI don't work with UEFI Windows - someone need to test UEFI Linux.

Maybe a XP941 while the slowest, would work better for your MP3,1, since it seems to not have the trim problem.

All three are mid-2014/early-2015 era blades and you only will find used.
 

AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
1,237
582
A400M Base
Hi all,

I'm looking for the chepeast and simpliest option to increase hard drive speeds on my cMP3,1.
I've read that AHCI blades work OOB, i would prefer this option since i don't want to mess with NVME drives that requires some flashing.

I only need one slot but if i can have two slots, it would be nice (dual-boot with Linux)

What options do I have?

Thanks in advance,

FrenchieiSverige


I run a dual AHCI Blade setup for more than a year now. The most important findings are:

#1 Although very reliable so far, those blades produce a big amount of heat. Only go with an adapter card that has a large tricked out heat sink/cooling system or upgrade it yourself.

#2 With limited PCI slots in the tower, chose at least a dual-slot card if possible. My choice was this card here, I can vouch for it working flawlessly in my 5.1 as a boot volume.

https://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=992

more reading just in case

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback...rds/Syba_Dual_M2_NVMe_PCIe_MacPro_Review.html

IMG_0470.jpeg
 

frenchieisverige

macrumors newbie
May 22, 2018
13
6
Samsung has two M.2 AHCI models, XP941 and SM951-AHCI. Kingston has the Predator AHCI.

SM951-AHCI have a trim firmware problem and Kingston Predator AHCI don't work with UEFI Windows - someone need to test UEFI Linux.

Maybe a XP941 while the slowest, would work better for your MP3,1, since it seems to not have the trim problem.

All three are mid-2014/early-2015 era blades and you only will find used.

I run a dual AHCI Blade setup for more than a year now. The most important findings are:

#1 Although very reliable so far, those blades produce a big amount of heat. Only go with an adapter card that has a large tricked out heat sink/cooling system or upgrade it yourself.

#2 With limited PCI slots in the tower, chose at least a dual-slot card if possible. My choice was this card here, I can vouch for it working flawlessly in my 5.1 as a boot volume.

https://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=992

more reading just in case

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback...rds/Syba_Dual_M2_NVMe_PCIe_MacPro_Review.html

View attachment 850324

Thanks to you two a lot!
I combined both information and ended up buying a 512GB XP941 with a Aqua Computer kryoM.2 evo.
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,429
48,426
Tanagra (not really)
For a budget Mac Pro NVMe that will easily saturate a PCIe 2.0 x4 connection, I recommend the Phison E12 based SSDs available from a variety of brands.

I personally have had good luck with the $98 Inland Premium 1TB SSD (MicroCenter house brand). It's essentially an unbranded OEM blade - no stickers over the chips, blue PCB. I ordered in mid-June 2019 and it came with the newer v12.2 Phison firmware. So far it's working great as a boot drive on a Mac Pro 4,1 > 5,1 with 144.0.0.0.0 firmware, running High Sierra 10.13.6.

The Phison E12 drives test up to 3,000 MB/s reads + writes - of course with an inexpensive 4-lane PCIe adapter you'll be limited to 1,500MB/s max speeds. According to reviewers, the trade-off with the Phison E12 drives are a smaller SLC cache that fills up when writing more quickly than some competing SSDs like the Samsung 970 EVO. Once the cache is full, sequential write speeds drop down to around 1,000 MB/sec. Still not too shabby.

The Patriot Viper VPN100 and the MyDigitalSSD BPX Pro are the two Phison E12 SSDs in the chart below. See reviews from Tom's Hardware and Anandtech for more details, and discussions on reddit and HardForum.

aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS84L0IvODM2MjE5L29yaWdpbmFsL2ltYWdlMDI2LnBuZw==


Besides the MicroCenter $98 special, here are some other Phison E12 SSDs that will all perform about the same, all can currently be picked up with 1TB for $150 or less. The MicroCenter version is rated at a very high 1600 TBW (terabytes written) lifespan and comes with a three year warranty. Other vendors are rating them with similarly high TBW, and many like Sabrent are offering even longer 5 year warranties.

Silicon Power P34A80
Addlink S70
Sabrent Rocket
Corsair MP510
Patriot Viper VPN100
MyDigitalSSD BPX Pro

I can also recommend this inexpensive PCIe NVMe adapter with integrated heatsink from Riitop, $18 on Amazon. If you're considering a Lycom DT-120, this seems like a better cooling alternative. The PCB has gold traces underneath where the SSD blade mounts, for heat dissipation on the back of the blade. It includes 3 thicknesses of thermal pads, which I cut up to mix and match over various height chips on the blade. (The Inland's controller chip is a little thinner than the memory chips). The heatsink doesn't clip or band onto the blade, it comes in two pieces that bolt together around the whole PCIe adapter and blade. The back of the heatsink rests directly on the back of the PCIe adapter PCB, and bolts to the front side of the heatsink, which has very tight tolerances in between the blade and the inside of the heatsink front piece. It doesn't bolt onto a PCIe rear slot cover, but uses the full x16 PCIe slot length and the locking bar for full-length PCIe cards to stay in place. Feels secure enough to me. It has a row of 4 dim blue LEDs that all blink simultaneously on drive activity. No switch to turn them off, but they shine through small holes drilled in the heatsink that could be easily covered up if desired.

For around $130 all-in for 1TB, I'm quite pleased with this crazy-affordable Mac Pro NVMe upgrade!
I've employed your advice and got the Riitop adapter and an Inland Premium drive. Mine is only 512GB, but it has the same controller as the 1TB model. Whole kit was around $80. Will be dropping it into my cMP 4,1 --> 5,1 when it arrives. My existing SATA SSD is rather anemic by comparison. It's pulling about 250MB/s w/r. I'm hoping it picks up the pace on my photography hobby. Paging through 20MB RAW files is pretty sluggish right now.
 
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atonaldenim

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2018
239
316
My new sabrent blade looked really good at first, until I installed a system on it.

newly partitioned..............................................................................new Mojave install...
View attachment 849470 View attachment 849471
I just got the Sabrent Rocket 1TB too, I also see similar variable speeds if I repeatedly run the AJA test. I wonder why...
Sabrent-1TB-IOCrest-AJA-1.png Sabrent-1TB-IOCrest-AJA-2.png
(Notice the spiky writes graph on the slower one.)

Regarding your other question about faster adapters, this is with the IO-Crest SI-PEX40129, I found one on eBay for $140. It uses x8 PCIe lanes for double the max speed of a basic x4 adapter.

Sabrent-1TB-IOCrest.png
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,847
1,957
Charlotte, NC
I just got the Sabrent Rocket 1TB too, I also see similar variable speeds if I repeatedly run the AJA test. I wonder why...

Because it uses TLC NAND with a large cache of faster memory to achieve the fast speeds. AJA uses a continuous barrage of writes that fill the cache memory faster than it can dump to the NAND. This is when the speed drops. Once the cache is fully dumped, you should see the speed increase again. I doubt you are experiencing thermal throttling but that too may be happening, keep an eye on your temps to verify there isn’t going to be a problem with this.

I don’t like AJA because it wears out the TLC NAND cells while all this is going on. TLC isn’t designed to be used like this...

Test your TLC blades with AmorphousDiskMark. It’s free and uses short bursts that don’t exhaust the cache so relentlessly. You shouldn’t be doing a lot of benchmarking with TLC NAND in my opinion.

MLC NAND like that in the Samsung 970 Pro won’t show this fluctuation but it costs a lot more. Even so, you still shouldn’t be using AJA excessively on any type of SSD. Stick with AmorphousDiskMark, Do each test independently (instead of selecting ALL), write your numbers down and put it away for later use if needed.

An initial test is fine for a new piece you just added, and again after you have loaded it up (for comparison). Then leave the benchmarks alone unless you need to check because of a problem you have noticed and it’s part of your diagnostic process...
 
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atonaldenim

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2018
239
316
Because it uses TLC NAND with a large cache of faster memory to achieve the fast speeds. AJA uses a continuous barrage of writes that fill the cache memory faster than it can dump to the NAND. This is when the speed drops. Once the cache is fully dumped, you should see the speed increase again. I doubt you are experiencing thermal throttling but that too may be happening, keep an eye on your temps to verify there isn’t going to be a problem with this.

I don’t like AJA because it wears out the TLC NAND cells while all this is going on. TLC isn’t designed to be used like this...

Test your TLC blades with AmorphousDiskMark. It’s free and uses short bursts that don’t exhaust the cache so relentlessly. You shouldn’t be doing a lot of benchmarking with TLC NAND in my opinion.

MLC NAND like that in the Samsung 970 Pro won’t show this fluctuation but it costs a lot more. Even so, you still shouldn’t be using AJA excessively on any type of SSD. Stick with AmorphousDiskMark, Do each test independently (instead of selecting ALL), write you numbers down and put it away for later use if needed.

An initial test is fine for a new piece you just added, and again after you have loaded it up (for comparison). Then leave the benchmarks alone unless you need to check because of a problem you have noticed and it’s part of your diagnostic process...

DISCLAIMER:
I’m a user, not an expert. My opinions are my own. Someone around here will invariably jump in to tell you how wrong I am. For that reason, instead of arguing with me, just respect that this is my personal experience and opinion on the matter. Take it or leave it...
Thanks for the tips, it makes sense. I ran AmorphousDiskMark twice (I promise I'll stop after that) and got pretty consistent results.

Planning to keep this TLC Sabrent as an OS / apps drive and hopefully add an MLC Samsung 970 Pro for media / scratch drive for video editing.
Sabrent-Rocket-1TB-ADM-1.png Sabrent-Rocket-1TB-ADM-2.png
Sabrent-1TB-IOCrest-Blackmagic.png
 
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LightBulbFun

macrumors 68030
Nov 17, 2013
2,900
3,195
London UK
happy to report that I fitted a Sabrent Rocket 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD to my MacPro5,1 via a M.2 adapter without any issues yesterday :) I was able to clone over my Mac OS install from my old 64GB SATA SSD and it booted right up without any issues (running the 144 BootROM on my MP5,1 of course)

the system has been booted since I installed the drive last night, doing relatively IO intensive work as I moved and migrated my data around (I Have moved my 300GB Virtual machine library onto the drive) and nothing has crashed so id call that a success :)

upload_2019-7-30_14-14-18.png


upload_2019-7-30_14-21-50.png


heres the speeds I get on a 16GB file size

upload_2019-7-30_14-24-25.png


im very happy with everything especially as I was coming from a rather slow 64GB SATA SSD!

(I have all my big data stored on mechanical drives but the 1TB SSD allowed me to move my VMs to the SSD which is nice :) and I dont have to worry about filling up my Boot drive anymore accidently!)

I bought the SSD from UK amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07LGF54XR?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

and here's the M.2 adapter i bought

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075TF6HFM?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image
 

axxxxe

macrumors newbie
Apr 16, 2011
17
1
Use HFS+ with AppleRAID. Apple still don't support RAID + APFS.

Have finally found time to set this up. I have a cMP5,1 with Mojave. Boot ROM is 144.0.0.0.0. 7101A is in slot 1. One Samsung 970 Pro 512GB runs at:

mogfxul.png


As a striped HFS+ RAID (RAID 0) with two 970s I get:

qCxRf1e.png


What am I doing wrong?

Should this not show x16 Link Width?

SSdjhtl.png


Op12fow.png
 
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,602
Have finally found time to set this up. I have a cMP5,1 with Mojave. Boot ROM is 144.0.0.0.0. 7101A is in slot 1. One Samsung 970 Pro 512GB runs at:

mogfxul.png


As a striped HFS+ RAID (RAID 0) with two 970s I get:

qCxRf1e.png


What am I doing wrong?

Should this not show x16 Link Width?

SSdjhtl.png


Op12fow.png
System Report are showing the correct and expected results, 970 Pro is a PCIe 3.0 (8GT/s) x4 device.

You are doing something wrong with the RAID part. Use the search and find @handheldgames tests with SSD7101A + 970 PRO, use his results as a baseline. Good luck.
 
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