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bax2003

Cancelled
Dec 25, 2011
947
203
Really odd. Never had this problem in the 3 Mac Pros i have had. If I understood right, you send the Switch Off, but makes a Restart. Right?
Classic shutdown procedure: Apple menu -> Shut Down - Shut Down.
Mac starts shutting down, and the power LED starts fading like its going to turn off and then lights up again and a few seconds later there is a chime and boot up procedure.

As soon as I remove the NVMe with adapter - shut down is successful every single time.
 

trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,958
2,799
Classic shutdown procedure: Apple menu -> Shut Down - Shut Down.
Mac starts shutting down, and the power LED starts fading like its going to turn off and then lights up again and a few seconds later there is a chime and boot up procedure.

As soon as I remove the NVMe with adapter - shut down is successful every single time.
In both Mac Pro´s?
 

bax2003

Cancelled
Dec 25, 2011
947
203
In both Mac Pro´s?
Yes, in both Mac Pros. NVMe to PCIe adapter is 100% percent to blame. As soon as you remove it, everything is fine.
OS is not to blame since this is happening in High Sierra and Mojave. Since I am new in a world of cMP + NVMe I hoped that someone also had this issue because NVMe to PCIe adapters are very simple devices......I am thinking of getting different adapter because they are not expensive.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
4TB & 8TB NVMe are starting to hit the market. Would NOT suggest using these at this time with macOS:

 

trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,958
2,799
Yes, in both Mac Pros. NVMe to PCIe adapter is 100% percent to blame. As soon as you remove it, everything is fine.
OS is not to blame since this is happening in High Sierra and Mojave. Since I am new in a world of cMP + NVMe I hoped that someone also had this issue because NVMe to PCIe adapters are very simple devices......I am thinking of getting different adapter because they are not expensive.
They are so cheap. Even the cheapest ones always worked for me. Now I´m using an Iocrest, first generation, I think they made some changes and now they don´t work fine. Hangs the mac pro.
 

bax2003

Cancelled
Dec 25, 2011
947
203
Good update: its definately adapters fault.
20201209_160052.jpg


20201209_155804.jpg


On the top photo you can see fully working 970 EVO Plus with updated firmware on M.2 PCIe adapter which does not cause any shut down problems.

On the lower photo, you can see Samsung PM981a which does not working properly (random kernel panics cause by NVME time out....) and the Orico adapter which causes shutdown problems.
Yes, in both Mac Pros. NVMe to PCIe adapter is 100% percent to blame. As soon as you remove it, everything is fine.
OS is not to blame since this is happening in High Sierra and Mojave. Since I am new in a world of cMP + NVMe I hoped that someone also had this issue because NVMe to PCIe adapters are very simple devices......I am thinking of getting different adapter because they are not expensive.
 
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Upgrader

macrumors 6502
Nov 23, 2014
359
53
Anyone using a Samsung 980 pro NVMe in their 5,1? Can't find much about it on the forum.
 

Syncretic

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2019
311
1,533
Just another data point, in case anyone might be interested.

MP4,1->5,1 BootROM 144.0.0.0.0
OpenCore booting unpatched Catalina 15.7

Micro Connectors M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 adapter with heat sink
Inland Premium 256GB 3D NAND NVMe SSD (Phison E12 controller, firmware ECFM22.7)
(I didn't peel off the sticker to determine the flash chip types.)

I bought a 256GB drive because I only wanted to speed up development - I have no need for high-volume file handling.
Blackmagic reports about 1400MB/s read, about 1300MB/s write immediately after install, no tweaking.
Adding "built-in" entry to OC makes drive show as native internal.
The drive idles at about 27°C; under load, it touched 29°C once (it stays very cool!).
Boot time is increased, as expected. Responsiveness for app loading and file I/O is excellent; it feels very snappy.

For what I was after, and for a grand total of about US$60, this gets a thumbs-up. If I find the time to do any tweaking/fine-tuning and manage to eke out any noticeable speed gains, I'll update this post.
 

Lance Nanek

macrumors member
Jun 23, 2020
31
5
Just successfully upgraded a Mac Pro 6,1 (Late 2013) and wanted to report the results.

Procedure:
1) plugin NVME drive into machine via USB adapter:

2) Run Super Duper! to clone the OEM disk to NVME.

3) Swap out OEM and NVME.

Attempt 1 w/ Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus failed to boot:

Using adapters:

Attempt 2 w/ Sabrent Rocket 4 booted:

Adapter:

Benchmark (although I do have Anti-Virus running):
rocket_benchmark.png


System diagnostic:
rocket_diagnostics.png


A little disappointed with the speed, but the system feels a lot snappier. It says the link is 4x which is as much as is supported. So maybe this is the best we can do?
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,262
Attempt 1 w/ Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus failed to boot:

Attempt 2 w/ Sabrent Rocket 4 booted:
So what's the difference that makes Rocket 4.0 bootable but Rocket 4 Plus not bootable?

Does EFI see the Rocket 4 Plus?
 

paulcons

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2017
250
147
New York City
What I THINK I know is that a blade like a Samsung 970 EVO let's say is capable of somewhere in the mid 2000s i/o speeds. BUT ONLY when in a card that supports bifurcation AND one that goes in a 16 lane slot. Said cards cost up to 150 bucks, right? The real cheap cards (30 and under) can generally only support the 1000s i/o speed. Mostly because they don't have the additional electronics to bifurcate. Got this correct so far?

So there is an obvious question about wide GPUs take take a significant amount of width of the PCI bay in a cMP. I THINK I have one of the narrower ones in the "wide" category and it just about blocks slot 2, while I understand some other obliterate it.

So it have been suggested, should I want to ramp up my i/o to match the blade, I put a bifurcation card in slot one, the GPU in slot 2, covering slot 3 but still have a slot 4. Got it correct so far?

Having had previous issues relating to heat I am curious about the overall PCI bay. While everything run actually very cool in my machine, I have set the PCI fan be governed by the SMC. In practice, that fan can and does rev itself up every now and then sometime 1200-1400. I actually can kind hear it when it ramps up. However, seems not many temp sensors in there other than PCIE Ambient (I have no idea exactly where that reading is taken from)... and THAT seems to consistently be in the 29-31º range, I MAY have seen it ONCE hit 32º. Curious why the hardware seems to think it needs some more fan action.

Now I have a 980... which I don't think was ever known as a particularly hot running GPU (I could be wrong). It's drivers don't provide and temp feedback from the card BUT their win10 drivers sure do. So I did some experimenting there... normally the card run in the high 30s. I CAN see the temp ramp up into the 40s, even high 40s, low 50s doing some gaming. Ran some of the things that can stress it like the Ungine graphics tests (old as they are). Interesting, tose can ramp the GPU temp to 80 and kinda hold it there. I know there is a fan ON the card, my guess is it ramps up but is uber quiet. Soon as I go back to the desktop, the GPU cools off... in a few minutes it is into the high 40s. Now whether the card itself is having fan issues or not, I am looking at the ambient for the bay. IT seems to stay in the same low 30s range throughout all of it.

Which is a long about way to get to my central question, cooling in the PCI bay with the GPU in slot 2m and a bifurcation card in slot 1. Someone who know more engineering than I said the NANDs run warm and are designed that way BUT the controller chip does run hot and can take some cooling. So what might I be looking for should I go for max i/o?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
What I THINK I know is that a blade like a Samsung 970 EVO let's say is capable of somewhere in the mid 2000s i/o speeds. BUT ONLY when in a card that supports bifurcation AND one that goes in a 16 lane slot. Said cards cost up to 150 bucks, right? The real cheap cards (30 and under) can generally only support the 1000s i/o speed. Mostly because they don't have the additional electronics to bifurcate. Got this correct so far?

So there is an obvious question about wide GPUs take take a significant amount of width of the PCI bay in a cMP. I THINK I have one of the narrower ones in the "wide" category and it just about blocks slot 2, while I understand some other obliterate it.

So it have been suggested, should I want to ramp up my i/o to match the blade, I put a bifurcation card in slot one, the GPU in slot 2, covering slot 3 but still have a slot 4. Got it correct so far?

Having had previous issues relating to heat I am curious about the overall PCI bay. While everything run actually very cool in my machine, I have set the PCI fan be governed by the SMC. In practice, that fan can and does rev itself up every now and then sometime 1200-1400. I actually can kind hear it when it ramps up. However, seems not many temp sensors in there other than PCIE Ambient (I have no idea exactly where that reading is taken from)... and THAT seems to consistently be in the 29-31º range, I MAY have seen it ONCE hit 32º. Curious why the hardware seems to think it needs some more fan action.

Now I have a 980... which I don't think was ever known as a particularly hot running GPU (I could be wrong). It's drivers don't provide and temp feedback from the card BUT their win10 drivers sure do. So I did some experimenting there... normally the card run in the high 30s. I CAN see the temp ramp up into the 40s, even high 40s, low 50s doing some gaming. Ran some of the things that can stress it like the Ungine graphics tests (old as they are). Interesting, tose can ramp the GPU temp to 80 and kinda hold it there. I know there is a fan ON the card, my guess is it ramps up but is uber quiet. Soon as I go back to the desktop, the GPU cools off... in a few minutes it is into the high 40s. Now whether the card itself is having fan issues or not, I am looking at the ambient for the bay. IT seems to stay in the same low 30s range throughout all of it.

Which is a long about way to get to my central question, cooling in the PCI bay with the GPU in slot 2m and a bifurcation card in slot 1. Someone who know more engineering than I said the NANDs run warm and are designed that way BUT the controller chip does run hot and can take some cooling. So what might I be looking for should I go for max i/o?
Please don't use wrong terminology here. Bifurcation is a very specific way to split PCIe lanes and don't apply to Macs at all, just to Intel and AMD chipsets/boards that support lane splitting - not all support, usually just high end. Macs only support PCIe switches, sharing the PCIe lanes. Chinese vendors of PCIe switched cards use the bifurcation completely wrong.

A PCIe x4 v2.0 slot will limit your throughput to ~1450Mbps.
 
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paulcons

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2017
250
147
New York City
My bad, learning moment! So it's a "lane switching" card I'd be after...then I can get to ~2500, right?

So "PCIe X4 v2.0" refers to the hardware only supporting up to PCI 2 and the slot having 4 lanes?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
My bad, learning moment! So it's a "lane switching" card I'd be after...then I can get to ~2500, right?

So "PCIe X4 v2.0" refers to the hardware only supporting up to PCI 2 and the slot having 4 lanes?
M.2 devices are 4 lanes or less, there are M.2 blades PCIe v2.0/3.0/4.0.

M.2 connector is a PCIe x4 slot, miniaturized.

A x8 PCIe v3.0 switched adapter will have a maximum throughput around 2900Mbps, while a x16 PCIe v3.0 switched card will achieve the maximum possible speed of M.2 PCIe v3.0 device, ~3200Mbps (5900~6000Mbps for a 3 or 4 blade RAID).
 
Last edited:
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,262
A x8 PCIe switched adapter will have a maximum throughput around 2900Mbps, while a x16 card will achieve the maximum possible speed of M.2 PCIe v3.0 device, ~3200Mbps (5900~6000Mbps for a 3 or 4 blade RAID).
Only if it has a PCIe 3.0 switch. Some older cards have a PCIe 2.0 switch (e.g. amfeltec Gen 2 Squid).
I have a card with a PCIe 4.0 switch but haven't tried it yet. I should be able to get full performance (4000+ MB/s) from a PCIe 4.0 NVMe device using that card in a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
Only if it has a PCIe 3.0 switch. Some older cards have a PCIe 2.0 switch (e.g. amfeltec Gen 2 Squid).
I have a card with a PCIe 4.0 switch but haven't tried it yet. I should be able to get full performance (4000+ MB/s) from a PCIe 4.0 NVMe device using that card in a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot.
That was implied "maximum possible speed of M.2 PCIe v3.0 device", anyway thx for the correction and I added the PCIe v3.0 switched adapter to my post to make it crystal clear.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,262
could you please advise how to do ?
You could try the Driver#### method. The firmware update method is a little more dangerous.
Zapping the PRAM will undo the Driver#### settings.
 

paulcons

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2017
250
147
New York City
@tsialex thanks for the education, I'm still curious what your feelings are about mounting an adapter board that can house 2 M.2 NVMe blades in slot 1 with my 980 in slot 2?

I am kinda looking at this, which I think meets what you have said:

 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
@tsialex thanks for the education, I'm still curious what your feelings are about mounting an adapter board that can house 2 M.2 NVMe blades in slot 1 with my 980 in slot 2?

I am kinda looking at this, which I think meets what you have said:


I owned a GTX 980 very briefly years ago, never installed one after I bought my SSD7101A-1, so I can't really advise you here. You probably will need to make some adjustments and a little slot dance to make your Mac Pro exactly right.

The PEXM2-130 card seems inexpensive, but NVMe blades become very hot when used, maybe an used or an open box SSD7101A-1 or any other card with a heatsink will work better for you. Think about the total cost of ownership, not just the initial cost of the card, when you add the price of a pair of good heatsinks, you are near the price of other options that already have cooling solutions from factory.

Sometimes you can find very good promos of open box Highpoint cards on Amazon, keep an eye there.
 

Bggale

macrumors regular
Nov 16, 2019
128
23
Whittier, Ca
Here is the speed I'm getting in slot 5 of my 7,1 with 4 x 1TB 980 Pros in my SSD7103 (formatted with APFS for bootability):
 

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MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Sep 15, 2015
2,895
2,390
Portland, Ore.
I booted up Linux to see if the 970 EVO Plus supports 4Kbyte sectors. The physical sectors are 4Kbyte, but it's in 512e mode. The controller doesn't support 4Kn format.
 

Lance Nanek

macrumors member
Jun 23, 2020
31
5
So what's the difference that makes Rocket 4.0 bootable but Rocket 4 Plus not bootable?

Does EFI see the Rocket 4 Plus?
Is there a way to boot to EFI on the Mac Pro (late 2013) model? I don't know how.

The Rocket 4 Plus works fine in my PC. The controller and protocol are slightly different:
Phison PS5018-E18 / PCIe 4.0 x4 / NVMe 1.4

Vs. this for the Rocket 4:
Phison PS5016-E16 / PCIe 4.0 x4 / NVMe 1.3

Maybe the former is no longer compatible with PCIe 2.0?
 

Raunien

macrumors 6502a
Aug 3, 2011
535
57
Does anyone have an angelbird PX1 that they're willing to sell? Located in USA.

PM with any offers! Thanks!
 
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