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are you sure you're not making a mistake in the professional vs consumer thought train.. maybe the mbp is a very capable professional use machine and consumers are just buying way more potential than they'll ever make use of when buying something like this?

i don't know what to tell you people.. i'm a pro, and i use a 2013 mbp, and it runs my programs pretty great.. like, it's perfectly acceptable and no amount of RAM is going to speed up my work.. even if my programs could make use of it on occasion.


The 2016 MBP is more computer than some of its buyers will need, or ever use. Some would be better off with a MacBook. Others may find the 2016 MBP more or less that they would prefer in a MacBook Air upgrade. Fine.

Only desires and requirements vary; Apple has abandoned the high end, despite retaining the 'Pro' moniker.

It matters—entirely aside from the professionals so marooned—because the flagship sets the standards for all else below. Witness the iPhone, their new flagship after the Mac Pro, and now the standard of the MBP as a disposable appliance. With in the end the entire Macintosh line disposable as well, quite possibly.
 
heh, well, the funny thing is... when people describe what type of users need some crazy spec'd computer, they almost always use my field as an example.. and they're pretty much always wrong.

so, for fun, what is the "specific type of professional that has the needs of the hardware being discussed."?

pretty sure you're going to say what i do as one of the examples.
I don't need to know what it is you do if your needs are met by the current hardware. There can be people in the same field as you doing more intensive work. You can have one person that uses Photoshop, for example, and just does basic editing. Then you can have another person that edits gigantic files with hundreds of layers maxing out their RAM. I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I don't care what it is is that you do. If your needs are met by current hardware then you don't understand the issues people have with the current hardware. It can be any field.
 
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Dude, what world are you living in? Of course they fix bugs and issues reported in OS X and iOS. That has nothing to do with their hardware.
you're making an awful lot of assumptions.
i'm talking about feature requests and usability concerns.
specific areas i've been involved in are tags, syncing, and versioning.
(and currently in discussion about combining some of that.. ie- ability to tag or note versions)
 
you're making an awful lot of assumptions.
i'm talking about feature requests and usability concerns.
specific areas i've been involved in are tags, syncing, and versioning.
(and currently in discussion about combining some of that.. ie- ability to tag or note versions)
I'm not making any assumptions. I was talking specifically about their hardware. You're talking about software.
 
The 2016 MBP is more computer than some of its buyers will need, or ever use. Some would be better off with a MacBook. Others may find the 2016 MBP more or less that they would prefer in a MacBook Air upgrade. Fine.

Only desires and requirements vary; Apple has abandoned the high end, despite retaining the 'Pro' moniker.

It matters—entirely aside from the professionals so marooned—because the flagship sets the standards for all else below. Witness the iPhone, their new flagship after the Mac Pro, and now the standard of the MBP as a disposable appliance. With in the end the entire Macintosh line disposable as well, quite possibly.

come on man, they're ALL disposable.. every PC out there.. and the blame doesn't fully lie on the manufacturers.. it's very much the fault of consumers..

NEWNEWNEW NOWNOWNOW.

that's what we demand.. you read this forum, right?

===
how old are your computers?
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I don't need to know what it is you do if your needs are met by the current hardware. There can be people in the same field as you doing more intensive work. You can have one person that uses Photoshop, for example, and just does basic editing. Then you can have another person that edits gigantic files with hundreds of layers maxing out their RAM. I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I don't care what it is is that you do. If your needs are met by current hardware then you don't understand the issues people have with the current hardware. It can be any field.
the flaw in logic here is that you can just add bigger/faster/newer/more hardware and get results in the software to coincide.


i get it how it's easy to assume this to be the case but it's simply not the case.. and pretty sure if you were very familiar with typical professional software which is out there right now, you'd know this isn't how it works.

like, i could work on a $3000 computer or a $50,000 computer.. in many cases, the $3000 computer will actually be faster and in no case will the $50000 computer allow me to work faster.
 
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the flaw in logic here is that you can just add bigger/faster/newer/more hardware and get results in the software to coincide.
What on earth are you talking about? Are you implying they can't have faster hardware because they won't be able to figure out how to code the software for it? o__O

i get it how it's easy to assume this to be the case but it's simply not the case.. and pretty sure if you were very familiar with typical professional software which is out there right now, you'd know this isn't how it works.
It's exactly the case. You're not in the group of people that have an issue with the current hardware, therefore you cannot understand their problem. You are basing your use case as a means to gauge other people's needs and that's not how reality works. I'm sorry.
 
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Welcome the the New Pro: It is no longer an abbreviation for Professional. Like the Mac Pro before it, it is a consumer product with a high fidelity of industrial design (ID). Where other companies may have different driving philosophies for consumer and prosumer product lines, Apple's "We make beautiful products that people love to use" is ubiquitous. In that sense, Apple is more of a materials engineering company than a computer engineering one. It's about the intersection of liberal arts and technology. About how humans interact with information. Thus the touch bar.
Yikes, and that was Steve Jobs who delivered that stentiment. So to claim that "Steve Jobs would never ..." or that "Tim Cook needs to be fired" or that "Johnny Ive is too obsessed or incapable or whatever" even statements of "I never (or no one ever) asked for this!!!" all fall by the wayside. Because Steve Jobs would have! And said so! Which means Tim Cook instead is upholding Steve Jobs ideals instead of destroying them. And Johnny Ive is just passionately executing them. That's gotta be a bitter pill to swallow. "Technology alone is not enough."

But, then I guess that makes all the rhetoric is true. Apple only cares about professionals as far as they fit into Apple's materials engineering results. Or, in other words, it was just coincidental that the older gigantic Mac Pro and MacBook Pros had user serviceable at all.
 
What on earth are you talking about? Are you implying they can't have faster hardware because they won't be able to figure out how to code the software for it? o__O
most pro software is 20+ years old.. thousands upon millions of lines of code, that while optimized somewhat over the years, certainly can't be expected to be rewritten every time a new computer is release.

the way most software is written is that in order to have a direct relation between performance and hardware specs then you need to increase clock speed.. but that ended last decade.. and 'just get more cores' doesn't cut it.. at all.

It's exactly the case. You're not in the group of people that have an issue with the current hardware, therefore you cannot understand their problem. You are basing your use case as a means to gauge other people's needs and that's not how reality works. I'm sorry.

i think I'm saying something more like - "hey, i'm a pro that uses demanding applications in demanding ways and these macs work for me"..

tbh, if you have a problem with macs not meeting your needs then i can't understand at all why you're considering using them? my reality works this way --> get the tools that you need and will work for you... not --> whine about tools that don't work for me without getting the ones that do.. that's a waste imo.

why should i care about your problems? you're seemingly not very capable of handling whatever computer problems you may have.. i think there's a computer for everyone out there that can handle every situation within reason.. i don't care about your supposed problems because i know there's a solution to them.. it's just that you'd seemingly rather not solve your problems and instead, just complain.
 
most pro software is 20+ years old.. millions of lines of code, that while optimized somewhat over the years, certainly can't be expected to be rewritten every time a new computer is release.

the way most software is written is that in order to have a direct relation between performance and hardware specs then you need to increase clock speed.. but that ended last decade.. and 'just get more cores' doesn't cut it.. at all.
None of that has anything to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about Apple's hardware decisions are not based on consumer input. They do what they want. You're going off on a tangent about software and I have no idea why. And if software is 20 years old that has nothing to do with Apple. Apple doesn't care if something is 20 years old and they don't code their software to cater to archaic applications. It's up to developers to update their software. Apple has rewritten most of their applications from the ground up. They don't support 20 year old code. I have no idea what point you're even trying to make. I'm not even sure any of what you just said makes any sense. It has nothing to do with anything being discussed.


i think I'm saying something more like - "hey, i'm a pro that uses demanding applications in demanding ways and these macs work for me"..

tbh, if you have a problem with macs not meeting your needs then i can't understand at all why you're considering using them? my reality works this way --> get the tools that you need and will work for you... not --> whine about tools that don't work for me without getting the ones that do.. that's a waste imo.
I'm done. This is the backwards logic that keeps these discussions going. You don't get it, therefore you will discuss it to death ... and then when you have nothing left to say because you don't understand their situation, it always falls back on "buy something else." People have a right to discuss their issues with current circumstances. It's not up to you to decide if that's okay or not.
 
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It's just ridiculous with all this talk of driving multiple 5K displays and having an underpowered GPU for the task. And then having 4 IO ports which, when actually utilized across the multiple displays and all the bandwidth being used could actually take advantage of 32 GB of RAM ... and when actually using several 5K displays and then doing actual intensive work on multiple 5K displays ... you know what? Never mind. It's just stupid.
 
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Schiller is putting lame excuse after lame excuse for the bad design of the Macbook Pro.
We do not need 30 days of Stand by....
We need 32GB ram.

We do not need 5 adaptors to carry with the Macbook.
We need to be able to connect the iPhone and iPad without them...

Schiller should be fired...

Exactly the same thing happened with the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is a complete disaster and it seems that they did not learn anything from that failure...
Now They are discontinuing the Airports.

IT seems that innovation in Apple is dead and they are in the path of self destruction.
They only care about making money with iphones...

Pretty lame...
 
Battery life doesn't mean crap if there isn't enough RAM to do the work. This goes along with removing the MagSafe, SD card slots, headphone jacks, ports, etc. Apple keeps pushing their "Less is More" BS on their customer base. Time to sell your Apple stock before "More is Less".
 
I'm done. This is the backwards logic that keeps these discussions going. You don't get it, therefore you will discuss it to death ... and then when you have nothing left to say because you don't understand their situation, it always falls back on "buy something else." People have a right to discuss their issues with current circumstances. It's not up to you to decide if that's okay or not.
right.. "I'm done!"
..without at the very least being able to say 'yes, this is correct'... because it is correct.

so if you could recognize this then your gripes will be more open to sensible discussion.. because then, your tone would be more of "i wish apple would make the computer i want'.. instead of 'apple sux because they don't make the computers i need!!1! :mad:'.

if you needed a computer that apple doesn't make then you'd get it.. it's that freaking easy.

which leads me to believe you don't actually need any of this.. you just want it.. so kick it down a few notches.

(or just tell me i don't understand... again :rolleyes:)
 
because it is correct.
Saying it's correct doesn't make it correct.

so if you could recognize this then your gripes will be more open to sensible discussion.. because then, your tone would be more of "i wish apple would make the computer i want'.. instead of 'apple sux because they don't make the computers i need'.
I'm sorry that the complaints aren't in non-trigger form for you.

if you needed a computer that apple doesn't make then you'd get it.. it's that freaking easy.
You can stop now.

which leads me to believe you don't actually need any of this.. you just want it.
No really, you can stop now.
 
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Doesn't matter how often he says it. INSANITY... no sale. 16GB isn't the problem, a 16GB LIMIT on a supposed "Pro" machine is the problem. If it were called a "MacBook".... nobody would be able to complain and few would.
Actually, the fact that they don't understand this is the REAL problem. If somebody had said to Jobs that a "Pro" level machine would need to sacrifice features, power and RAM for battery life... they would have been fired immediately.

Apple with Steve Jobs.... insanely great
Apple without Steve Jobs.... just insane
 
lol ok @StayPuft

..keep up with these excellent examples of problem solving skills.
(just don't let any of your 'professional colleagues' (or apple computer designers for that matter) see these examples)
adios
 
Fairly sure it's more to do with the single channel memory is limited to 16GB. They would have needed to implement multi-channel architecture and make further design sacrifices (including additional battery load - but it's not that much extra...).
 
Well, they compromised pretty much everything about this device already.

Who leaves their laptop on standby for 30 days?!
I don't know about 30 days; but my MBP certainly stays in standby for over a week on a fairly regular basis.

I'd be pretty annoyed if that resulted in a dead MBP.
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What's with all the empty spaces around the battery?

Can't put in a bigger battery? My ***!

cBFfrfQPrPBFgV1s.huge
Perhaps he should have said, "We can't put a signficantly-bigger battery in". The amount of empty space is enough for about 5 extra minutes of runtime.
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Give me a break, there's at least 4 fingers worth of empty space. Returning the MBP soon for a 2015 model.
What are you, an Elf?

Those are some pretty damn small fingers, if you can fit them in those spaces.
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So, is he saying that for the next few years the MBP will not support 32GB of RAM? It's not that battery technology is moving forward that fast, and I don't see apple making a thicker laptop.
No.

What he can't really say is that "Intel is screwing everybody, including us, with their slipped timelines for the mobile quad-core Kaby Lakes, and until they get with the program and release those, there won't be any 32 GB MacBook Pros."
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excuses excuses.
No.

It is Reasons, Reasons.

There's a difference.
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Granting an extra 0.3mm to the case would be anathema.
And it would also be insignificant to battery capacity.
 
I don't know about 30 days; but my MBP certainly stays in standby for over a week on a fairly regular basis.

I'd be pretty annoyed if that resulted in a dead MBP.
[doublepost=1479842380][/doublepost]
Perhaps he should have said, "We can't put a signficantly-bigger battery in". The amount of empty space is enough for about 5 extra minutes of runtime.
[doublepost=1479842473][/doublepost]
What are you, an Elf?

Those are some pretty damn small fingers, if you can fit them in those spaces.
[doublepost=1479842656][/doublepost]
No.

What he can't really say is that "Intel is screwing everybody, including us, with their slipped timelines for the mobile quad-core Kaby Lakes, and until they get with the program and release those, there won't be any 32 GB MacBook Pros."
[doublepost=1479842740][/doublepost]
No.

It is Reasons, Reasons.

There's a difference.
The fanboyism runs deep.

Apple is digging it's own grave. Cook needs to be less worried about social issues and penny pinching and go back to making computers that people actually want.
 
all these issues and every Apple customer alienated so Ive can show how thin his post Steve Jobs 'design' is

I can't wait for a new Apple CEO to take over from these fouls
 
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