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Well, they compromised pretty much everything about this device already.

Who leaves their laptop on standby for 30 days?!



Its all about "skinny" to them. I mean lets just be honest. If the fashionista's want THIN then that's what the AIR lineup should have been. PRO is about power first, style second. Why is that such a tall order for them?
 
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The demand for 32GB RAM is real. From virtual machines / OS simulators to incredibly large photo libraries to multi track Logic Pro recordings. 16GB is enough for most but not for some .. those "some" used to be the professional users.

Now days everyone is a Pro user. Battery life and the thinner yada yada makes sense from an Apple business perspective. I get Phil's arguments too. But lets be honest, the REAL Professional notebook user is being left behind. I dare say that Apple released the Macbook Plus.... and the Pro is dead.. the Pro stands for PROduct. Macbook Product.

Apple needs to work with Intel regarding these low power challenges and design a real Pro machine or start designing their own hardware again. Basically Phil is calling out Apple himself.. there's no LPDRAM for the hardware.. Oh wait don't you design the hardware

It's an incredible machine for the everyday user. Heck maybe at WWDC we'll see the Macbook Pro +

A note for Apple Pro users don't need a 17% thinner machine.. Its nice, but its not a requirement to get our every day jobs done.
 
Using the word compromise on a product that cost a ton takes courage.
So when the Surface Studio compromised on the CPU and the GPU, that's ok, right? But when Apple compromises, it's Teh Evilz!!!

I got news for ya: ALL Engineering is ALL about COMPROMISES.

Ask ANY Engineer.
[doublepost=1479852115][/doublepost]
phone touch screen not working? it's the customers fault
no 32gb ram option? it's intels fault

apple is master of blaming everybody else for their problems

When you drop your phone repeatedly, or stick it in your back pocket and make a boomerang out of it, yes, that's your fault.

When Intel blows their CPU timeline and causes everyone to continue to develop with last-year's parts that can't use low-power RAM above 16 GB, yes, it is Intel's fault.
 
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So when the Surface Studio compromised on the CPU and the GPU, that's ok, right? But when Apple compromises, it's Teh Evilz!!!

I got news for ya: ALL Engineering is ALL about COMPROMISES.

Ask ANY Engineer.
[doublepost=1479852115][/doublepost]

When you drop your phone repeatedly, or stick it in your back pocket and make a boomerang out of it, yes, that's your fault.

When Intel blows their CPU timeline and causes everyone to continue to develop with last-year's parts that can't use low-power RAM above 16 GB, yes, it is Intel's fault.

The Surface Studio has RAM/GPU options of 32GB/980M, what are they compromising on exactly? We don't even get a power adapter extension cable anymore for $4000 CAD lmao
 
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yes, Phil is right. they chose a smaller, thinner case over the ability to create a true powerhouse of a computer. the same logic can be universally applied to so many types of machinery.
what Phil is not offering is their reasoning and principles behind the choices Apple has been making and how they view their designed limitations in regards to who they think their customers are.
You DO realize, of course, that if Apple made the new MBP even 1 mm Thicker, the internet would literally melt-down at how "fat and heavy" the MBP was, and how "Apple needs to put the MBP on a DIET!", etc. etc.

If you don't think that's true, you haven't been on any internet forums in the past 10 years.
[doublepost=1479852551][/doublepost]
Pathetic...

All the MBP is a compromise, make it as thin as the 2015's or use all the space avaliable for the battery: problem solved.

Really?

Ok, let's assume that Apple decided to keep the extra 17% of volume.

All things being equal, that means that, at BEST, they could have increased the battery volume by that same 17%, AND NO MORE.

So, do you REALLY believe that an additional 17% of battery volume would suddenly make the MBP have 10 hours (or even 8 hours) of run-time with OVER DOUBLE the RAM-POWER-REQUIREMENTS???

They (obviously) did the math. Why can't you?
[doublepost=1479852712][/doublepost]
The non touchbar has a 54w battery
(and a ULV more power efficient but obv lesser performing proc, to put salt in the wound),
whereas TB 13" is 49w,

What is this battery compromising proposition you speak of, Phil the Shill?

WOW! YOU CAUGHT 'EM RED HANDED!!!

They WASTED a WHOLE FIVE WATTS OF BATTERY CAPACITY!!!!

YEAH, THAT'LL MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!!

Gimme a break, willya?!?
[doublepost=1479852893][/doublepost]
16 GB of RAM in this machine is just great in the universe where a new Mac Pro was released alongside this laptop. I sure don't need more than that if I have a brand new tower taking on my heavy lifting.

But in THIS universe Apple has put the following graphic on their website in a clear attempt to make us understand that this laptop is the Mac Pro replacement.

So, in that case, **** you, Apple.

mbp.jpeg
It was just trying to show the amount of I/O bandwidth this laptop has available (80 Gbps), which, BTW IS more than the Mac Pro (60 Gbps).
[doublepost=1479853075][/doublepost]
Or they could have made the case a couple of millimetres larger?
The only dimensional increase that would have NOT resulted in a severe COMPROMISE of battery-life would be a nearly 2 TIMES volume INCREASE.

Nothing less would make enough difference to matter in the REAL WORLD.
[doublepost=1479853396][/doublepost]
I don't see why we can't have at least a separate model that is more like the non-Retina Macbook Pros circa 2012. Leave the thickness be and stuff in 4 DIMM slots and 2 M.2 slots. You can reduce the overall dimensions by reducing the size of the bezels. Without the optical drive and the 2.5" drive, there ought to be plenty of space. Top it off with a better keyboard with actual key travel.
IOW, Apple designs an Alienware LUGGABLE...

Why don't we just give it a RAID controller, a dozen 20th century I/O ports and a couple of PCI slots while we're at it, jeez! Afterall, isn't that what ALL "Pros" need???

Oh, and I forgot the trailer to haul your batteries...
[doublepost=1479853544][/doublepost]
and apple's innovation would be charge $200 for every USB port!

clearly they are focusing on Dollars.
Yeah, cuz they gave you more than DOUBLE the I/O BANDWIDTH than ANY OTHER LAPTOP.

They are CLEARLY trying to rip you off and starve you of I/O....

Riiiight.
[doublepost=1479853940][/doublepost]
Phill.. what I don't think you understand is that you don't have to compromise the battery time so much if you left a couple extra mm on the thickness. You are painting yourselves into a corner trying to always go thinner and thinner with minimal regard to the other tradeoffs.
So, you've done the math, run the power-budgets, talked with the OS Designers and the Hardware Designers, prototyped-up some mockups for real-world and benchmark testing, right?

THAT's why you KNOW that a "couple of extra mm on the thickness" would make ALL the difference, right?

AMIRITE?
[doublepost=1479854203][/doublepost]
The Surface Studio has RAM/GPU options of 32GB/980M, what are they compromising on exactly? We don't even get a power adapter extension cable anymore for $4000 CAD lmao
The CPU is the same Skylake CPUs that Apple has supposedly "Compromised" with.

The GPU is last-year's NVidia design.

2015 iMacs can have 32 GB of RAM (and I think maybe OWC even has 64 GB RAM for them). Line-Powered computers are different than laptops.
 
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You DO realize, of course, that if Apple made the new MBP even 1 mm Thicker, the internet would literally melt-down at how "fat and heavy" the MBP was, and how "Apple needs to put the MBP on a DIET!", etc. etc.

If you don't think that's true, you haven't been on any internet forums in the past 10 years.
[doublepost=1479852551][/doublepost]

Really?

Ok, let's assume that Apple decided to keep the extra 17% of volume.

All things being equal, that means that, at BEST, they could have increased the battery volume by that same 17%, AND NO MORE.

So, do you REALLY believe that an additional 17% of battery volume would suddenly make the MBP have 10 hours (or even 8 hours) of run-time with OVER DOUBLE the RAM-POWER-REQUIREMENTS???

They (obviously) did the math. Why can't you?
[doublepost=1479852712][/doublepost]

WOW! YOU CAUGHT 'EM RED HANDED!!!

They WASTED a WHOLE FIVE WATTS OF BATTERY CAPACITY!!!!

YEAH, THAT'LL MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!!

Gimme a break, willya?!?
[doublepost=1479852893][/doublepost]
It was just trying to show the amount of I/O bandwidth this laptop has available (80 Gbps), which, BTW IS more than the Mac Pro (60 Gbps).
[doublepost=1479853075][/doublepost]
The only dimensional increase that would have NOT resulted in a severe COMPROMISE of battery-life would be a nearly 2 TIMES volume INCREASE.

Nothing less would make enough difference to matter in the REAL WORLD.
[doublepost=1479853396][/doublepost]
IOW, Apple designs an Alienware LUGGABLE...

Why don't we just give it a RAID controller, a dozen 20th century I/O ports and a couple of PCI slots while we're at it, jeez! Afterall, isn't that what ALL "Pros" need???

Oh, and I forgot the trailer to haul your batteries...
[doublepost=1479853544][/doublepost]
Yeah, cuz they gave you more than DOUBLE the I/O BANDWIDTH than ANY OTHER LAPTOP.

They are CLEARLY trying to rip you off and starve you of I/O....

Riiiight.
[doublepost=1479853940][/doublepost]
So, you've done the math, run the power-budgets, talked with the OS Designers and the Hardware Designers, prototyped-up some mockups for real-world and benchmark testing, right?

THAT's why you KNOW that a "couple of extra mm on the thickness" would make ALL the difference, right?

AMIRITE?
[doublepost=1479854203][/doublepost]
The CPU is the same Skylake CPUs that Apple has supposedly "Compromised" with.

The GPU is last-year's NVidia design.

2015 iMacs can have 32 GB of RAM (and I think maybe OWC even has 64 GB RAM for them). Line-Powered computers are different than laptops.

Apple is a multinational multi-billion dollar company. while I'm sure they appreciate your efforts, they can defend themselves. Apple is also a for profit business that decides themselves what to offer and sells them to us for our money, they are a fair target for criticism.
 
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You DO realize, of course, that if Apple made the new MBP even 1 mm Thicker, the internet would literally melt-down at how "fat and heavy" the MBP was, and how "Apple needs to put the MBP on a DIET!", etc. etc.

If you don't think that's true, you haven't been on any internet forums in the past 10 years.
[doublepost=1479852551][/doublepost]

Really?

Ok, let's assume that Apple decided to keep the extra 17% of volume.

All things being equal, that means that, at BEST, they could have increased the battery volume by that same 17%, AND NO MORE.

So, do you REALLY believe that an additional 17% of battery volume would suddenly make the MBP have 10 hours (or even 8 hours) of run-time with OVER DOUBLE the RAM-POWER-REQUIREMENTS???

They (obviously) did the math. Why can't you?
[doublepost=1479852712][/doublepost]

WOW! YOU CAUGHT 'EM RED HANDED!!!

They WASTED a WHOLE FIVE WATTS OF BATTERY CAPACITY!!!!

YEAH, THAT'LL MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!!

Gimme a break, willya?!?
[doublepost=1479852893][/doublepost]
It was just trying to show the amount of I/O bandwidth this laptop has available (80 Gbps), which, BTW IS more than the Mac Pro (60 Gbps).
[doublepost=1479853075][/doublepost]
The only dimensional increase that would have NOT resulted in a severe COMPROMISE of battery-life would be a nearly 2 TIMES volume INCREASE.

Nothing less would make enough difference to matter in the REAL WORLD.
[doublepost=1479853396][/doublepost]
IOW, Apple designs an Alienware LUGGABLE...

Why don't we just give it a RAID controller, a dozen 20th century I/O ports and a couple of PCI slots while we're at it, jeez! Afterall, isn't that what ALL "Pros" need???

Oh, and I forgot the trailer to haul your batteries...
[doublepost=1479853544][/doublepost]
Yeah, cuz they gave you more than DOUBLE the I/O BANDWIDTH than ANY OTHER LAPTOP.

They are CLEARLY trying to rip you off and starve you of I/O....

Riiiight.
[doublepost=1479853940][/doublepost]
So, you've done the math, run the power-budgets, talked with the OS Designers and the Hardware Designers, prototyped-up some mockups for real-world and benchmark testing, right?

THAT's why you KNOW that a "couple of extra mm on the thickness" would make ALL the difference, right?

AMIRITE?
[doublepost=1479854203][/doublepost]
The CPU is the same Skylake CPUs that Apple has supposedly "Compromised" with.

The GPU is last-year's NVidia design.

2015 iMacs can have 32 GB of RAM (and I think maybe OWC even has 64 GB RAM for them). Line-Powered computers are different than laptops.


Lmao... I would be jumping for joy if they included last years NVidia design over these laughable AMD cards.
 
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Exactly. Been using Mac from 2006 up to 2016, recently jumped ship and build a Hackintosh. Not going to buy another Mac laptop either. I'm done.
Yet you'll proudly rip off their OS and Applications, all the while bad-mouthing them, right?
[doublepost=1479855541][/doublepost]
Hibernation, Phil.
Look it up in your next IT-startercourse...
IT Startercourse. That's rich.

You need to read Phil's Bio.
 
Oh dear, oh my, so it would have had to have weighed more than Ive's last movement to still offer acceptable battery life? The horror! THE HORROR!!!! Won't someone think of the CHILDREN!!!! *faints*

My back hurts just thinking of picking up something heavier than a paperclip!!!

Wait, no ... it doesn't....

Let us have the OPTION to CHOOSE a thicker/heavier version, that offers better performance, a much better keyboard, and maintains decent, if not netbook/tablet-like, battery life! JFC! Not all of your users are suffering from terminal wasting diseases!!! I doubt most would mind going back to the "heavy" (EYE ROLL) 5.5 lbs of the 2012 non-retina 15" MBP. Perhaps that could include the 99.5w battery instead of a 76w battery?

Why can't Apple make at least *one* laptop that isn't a huge compromise that puts THIN above all other possible features? Especially when thin doesn't really add anything to how most people actually USE a Pro laptop?


Sigh.

I need a drink...


yada yada

apple.com/feedback

yada yada yada....

Awesome. Well said.
 
Standby time is key if you are going to spend any significant time away from a plug and charger. Of course no one needs 30 days of standby. But Apple's current standby ability means that you don't have to bring a charging cord when you go away for the weekend knowing that you are going to only use light work that weekend. It would be frustrating if the laptop lost charge over time quickly.

One of the key things about battery life is not how the battery works now, but how it will work three or four years from now. Every laptop is sufficient these days during its first year. But Macs are expected to last five years. How is the battery life going to be at that point? Will it be even serviceable for a cross country plane ride?

I guess you haven't heard about hibernation?
 
Engineering is about Challenges. You make them work.

For the high end user's that need 32GB of Ram, they more than like have a more than solid point.

For Phil Schiller and company keeping it with a certain dollar value and other considerations is what more than likely happened.

Apple will do what they want to do and if you don't like it they could give 2 shites. They laugh at the peoples requests, your told that they listen and you believe it. Probably the majority of the people that bitch about the cost and style and will never buy a new MBP are the one's waiting for them on order.

Been to the local apple store and there all in stock , are they selling ? Not so much because of the cost to include adapters and less battery life
 
Given the excessive Apple tax on everything RAM, I find it credible that Apple couldn't offer 32 GB.

They certainly wouldn't have forfeited the profit margin had they seen any opportunity to implement a 32 GB option without compromising the product's performance significantly.
 
So when the Surface Studio compromised on the CPU and the GPU, that's ok, right? But when Apple compromises, it's Teh Evilz!!!

I got news for ya: ALL Engineering is ALL about COMPROMISES.

Ask ANY Engineer.
[doublepost=1479852115][/doublepost]

When you drop your phone repeatedly, or stick it in your back pocket and make a boomerang out of it, yes, that's your fault.


When Intel blows their CPU timeline and causes everyone to continue to develop with last-year's parts that can't use low-power RAM above 16 GB, yes, it is Intel's fault.

That's funny because people were walking out of the store with brand new iphones with the touch disease.
That's funny because the 6 models have a higher incident than other phones.
That's funny because other computers continue to offer 32 gb.

Come on, not even a solid attempt? 0/10. Who's next?
 
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Phil says: 32GB and 19% thicker could break fanatic Apple fans' spine lol, so he decides to MAKE APPLE SUCK AGAIN
 
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IOW, Apple designs an Alienware LUGGABLE...

Why don't we just give it a RAID controller, a dozen 20th century I/O ports and a couple of PCI slots while we're at it, jeez! Afterall, isn't that what ALL "Pros" need???

Did you bother to read my actual post ? I stated that an additional form factor similar to the non-Retina Macbook Pros would have been an excellent alternative, by taking out the optical drive and the 2.5" drive, we'd have plenty of space for some internal upgrades and expansion options. Then you make this straw-man argument and wildly extend that what I suggested, to an Alienware-like laptop that is about twice as thick as my original suggestion and ridicule the result ?

Please contribute constructively and refrain from fallacies.
 
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