Planned obsolescence!

[Armen]

If you are happy with the device, that video doesn't matter.

The video proves that not everyone sees Lag and stutter in control center and spotlight search and that everyone's phone is different.
[doublepost=1452099527][/doublepost]

Sorry bro. Post a 60fps video.

Sorry bro, the iphone isn't a First Person Shooter game to even consider Frame rates. It's obviously smooth to the human eye so you need to move on to something else to complain about.

 

[nj1266]

It is a conscious and intended decision to not optimise for year old hardware knowing the consequences

Good luck proving that in court.

 

[nj1266]

If that's true, that's incredibly misleading. Then they're basicly saying: iOS 9 is better, but only if you buy a new device. Honestly, that makes zero sense.

I'm just saying it's not ocassionally.

The control center animation always stutters.
Scrolling through Twitter always stutters.
Scrolling through Facebook always stutters.
The 3D Touch animation always stutters.

It's impossible to replicate those animations without stutter.

I presume you are typing about a 6s since you mentioned 3D Touch. I honestly do not have any of these things on my 6s Plus. No Facebook and Twitter stutter and no 3D Touch animation stutter. It runs almost perfect.

 

[dk001]

Regardless of who owns the iPad 2 and iPad Mini 1 which make up to 40 percent of installed iPads (Add the iPad 3 and it takes you to nearly 50 percent), you've got nearly 50 percent of installed iPads as A5 devices. Some of these were being sold less than 6 months ago. Abandoning nearly half your installed iPad base is not a great move. Apple shouldn't have continued selling them into 2015 if they didn't want to deal with the consequences.

Apple is one of the richest companies out there, so making excuses for them not providing the best software support possible is laughable. The environmental benefits of long term support are massive, and far more important than a small amount of upgrades that are caused by obsolete of hardware through lack of updates.

I think that was one of Apple's misses. The assumption that generation buying of the iPad would mirror consumer practice of the iPhone. Oops. Now the question (from Apple's perspective) is how to re-energized the buying behavior in the iPad market.
[doublepost=1452104049][/doublepost]

Seems like quite a few people would prefer it the other way around, given the vocal posts in various iOS 9 threads (as well as similar ones in iOS 8 threads shortly after it came out, and iOS 7 threads shortly after it came out, etc.).

That said, yes, the ability to downgrade would certainly be a welcome change (even if it's not really a realistic one to even really hope for).

Don't forget for most "poster's / complainer's / pointer outer's" it is a case of OSOM. The security aspect would rear it's head if they were bitten.

Regression would be great however that would be a headache retro-fitting security updates. Either way, the security update process for iOS is more broken (in my opinion) than Androids.

 

[I7guy]

I presume you are typing about a 6s since you mentioned 3D Touch. I honestly do not have any of these things on my 6s Plus. No Facebook and Twitter stutter and no 3D Touch animation stutter. It runs almost perfect.

I get no stutter on my 6s related to the home or control center. No lag either. The only place laughingly I get visible stutter is on the cellular screen. Reduce motion on/off or transparency on/off no difference.

 

[Radon87000]

You just made my point by agreeing there were increases in web benchmarks. So that does come under the headings "performance improvements" and ergo there is nothing further to explain. I hate picking nits like this, but that is what the conversation is about. an improvement is an improvement.

And while you link those sunspider tests,I have benchmarks proving iOS 9 degraded launch times for several apps.Videos show that iOS 9 almost always is slower than 8.4.1.Now lets look at Apple's claims

Those benchmarks of yours dont indicate responsiveness do they?App launch times do and this is how iOS 9 fares in that area

5 wins for iOS 8.4.1 and 2 for iOS 9.Whats the point of improving INVISIBLE Sunspider scores when my phone takes longer to open the browser which uses it?You degraded it in that area effectively ruining the customer experience there

Do your benchmarks prove more reponsive scrolling and animations?Not by a long shot.Scrolling is HORRIBLE in apps and animations still stutter in mobile data apps,spotlight and when you rapidly swipe through homescreens after terminating apps

Resetting to Factory/Shipping Version does seem like a good idea if someone wants "just a phone" - but malware and security patching still needs to be applied, and this is where it falls down.

I think force updates are probably more about security on the older devices than functionality.
Its easier to install new version with some / all additional functionality turned off. iPhone 4s for example has very little in terms of major iOS9 functionality.
Keeping previous iOSes security patched involves work, I doubt they have enough software engineers to backport code to previous iOSes. We saw that with MacOS - lots of people wanted iCloud on Snow Leopard, it never happened.

With portable devices the longevity is even lower than Desktops/Laptops. There is a point where you have to let the old go.

Microsoft is supporting multiple Windows versions down till 2009.Google is providing security updates for 2 or more releases.Providing security updates to iOS 6 on a iPhone 4S should be nothing to the richest tech company in the world.

And your proof is?

They designed OS with 2GB Iphones in mind and simply backported it to the 6 without doing any optimisations for it.Now you tell me why would they do such a thing

 

[dk001]

Resetting to Factory/Shipping Version does seem like a good idea if someone wants "just a phone" - but malware and security patching still needs to be applied, and this is where it falls down.

I think force updates are probably more about security on the older devices than functionality.
Its easier to install new version with some / all additional functionality turned off. iPhone 4s for example has very little in terms of major iOS9 functionality.
Keeping previous iOSes security patched involves work, I doubt they have enough software engineers to backport code to previous iOSes. We saw that with MacOS - lots of people wanted iCloud on Snow Leopard, it never happened.

With portable devices the longevity is even lower than Desktops/Laptops. There is a point where you have to let the old go.

I think it was a conscious decision on Apple's part; do we (Apple) deal with security updates for multiple versions (and apps) or push everyone to the new version? New version supports the procurement model, old version support gets us (Apple) into the fragmented model.

One get's you more cash while the other costs you cash.
[doublepost=1452106816][/doublepost]

And your proof is?

Devil's Advocate: and your proof it wasn't
Take a look at Apple's business model (what we can see of it) and it had to have been an intended and conscious decision. BM101.

 

[AFEPPL]

Resetting to Factory/Shipping Version does seem like a good idea if someone wants "just a phone" - but malware and security patching still needs to be applied, and this is where it falls down.

I think force updates are probably more about security on the older devices than functionality.
Its easier to install new version with some / all additional functionality turned off. iPhone 4s for example has very little in terms of major iOS9 functionality.
Keeping previous iOSes security patched involves work, I doubt they have enough software engineers to backport code to previous iOSes. We saw that with MacOS - lots of people wanted iCloud on Snow Leopard, it never happened.

With portable devices the longevity is even lower than Desktops/Laptops. There is a point where you have to let the old go.

If apple put more effort into securing their iOS platform the malware and security updates wouldn't be so much of an issue. But, as i said, its a choice owners should be able to make for themselves.

 

[Michael Goff]

And while you link those sunspider tests,I have benchmarks proving iOS 9 degraded launch times for several apps.Videos show that iOS 9 almost always is slower than 8.4.1.Now lets look at Apple's claims

Those benchmarks of yours dont indicate responsiveness do they?App launch times do and this is how iOS 9 fares in that area

5 wins for iOS 8.4.1 and 2 for iOS 9.Whats the point of improving INVISIBLE Sunspider scores when my phone takes longer to open the browser which uses it?You degraded it in that area effectively ruining the customer experience there

Do your benchmarks prove more reponsive scrolling and animations?Not by a long shot.Scrolling is HORRIBLE in apps and animations still stutter in mobile data apps,spotlight and when you rapidly swipe through homescreens after terminating apps



Microsoft is supporting multiple Windows versions down till 2009.Google is providing security updates for 2 or more releases.Providing security updates to iOS 6 on a iPhone 4S should be nothing to the richest tech company in the world.


They designed OS with 2GB Iphones in mind and simply backported it to the 6 without doing any optimisations for it.Now you tell me why would they do such a thing

That's not proof, that's another assertion.

I think it was a conscious decision on Apple's part; do we (Apple) deal with security updates for multiple versions (and apps) or push everyone to the new version? New version supports the procurement model, old version support gets us (Apple) into the fragmented model.

One get's you more cash while the other costs you cash.
[doublepost=1452106816][/doublepost]

Devil's Advocate: and your proof it wasn't
Take a look at Apple's business model (what we can see of it) and it had to have been an intended and conscious decision. BM101.

Stuttering on phones that are out right now that were released in October is, by itself, proof that this it more shoddy coding than some evil scheme. Why would they make a product they're selling for 600$ right now stutter? It has their most powerful phone chip. It has 2gb of RAM. Yet people have stuttering. Or we can do a quick search for iPad Pro stuttering.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7335532?start=0&tstart=0
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-pro-stuttering-display.1944513/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-is-the-deal-with-this-keyboard-stutter.1868281/

If we are to believe that Apple is doing this on purpose, they're already making devices they just recently started selling obsolete. Why the heck would they do that?

 

[I7guy]

And while you link those sunspider tests,I have benchmarks proving iOS 9 degraded launch times for several apps.Videos show that iOS 9 almost always is slower than 8.4.1.Now lets look at Apple's claims

Those benchmarks of yours dont indicate responsiveness do they?App launch times do and this is how iOS 9 fares in that area

5 wins for iOS 8.4.1 and 2 for iOS 9.Whats the point of improving INVISIBLE Sunspider scores when my phone takes longer to open the browser which uses it?You degraded it in that area effectively ruining the customer experience there

Do your benchmarks prove more reponsive scrolling and animations?Not by a long shot.Scrolling is HORRIBLE in apps and animations still stutter in mobile data apps,spotlight and when you rapidly swipe through homescreens after terminating apps



Microsoft is supporting multiple Windows versions down till 2009.Google is providing security updates for 2 or more releases.Providing security updates to iOS 6 on a iPhone 4S should be nothing to the richest tech company in the world.


They designed OS with 2GB Iphones in mind and simply backported it to the 6 without doing any optimisations for it.Now you tell me why would they do such a thing

As you did before you are only looking at app opening times not total end to end task time. Basically cherry picking. There is more to performance than just using opening an app as your sole use case.

 

[dk001]

Good luck proving that in court.

Actually it would not be that hard. Your company's business model has to account for it. You have to plan for it when you develop a life cycle profile of your product(s). Especially true for a large traded company. It comes down to Ignorance, Incompetence, or It's in the Business Plan.
[doublepost=1452108494][/doublepost]

That's not proof, that's another assertion.



Stuttering on phones that are out right now that were released in October is, by itself, proof that this it more shoddy coding than some evil scheme. Why would they make a product they're selling for 600$ right now stutter? It has their most powerful phone chip. It has 2gb of RAM. Yet people have stuttering. Or we can do a quick search for iPad Pro stuttering.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7335532?start=0&tstart=0
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-pro-stuttering-display.1944513/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-is-the-deal-with-this-keyboard-stutter.1868281/

If we are to believe that Apple is doing this on purpose, they're already making devices they just recently started selling obsolete. Why the heck would they do that?

Huh? I'm not talking about stuttering per se, I'm looking at the potential planned obsolescence and the choice of allow downgrade vs. push it all to the latest from a business model perspective. Context.
[doublepost=1452108584][/doublepost]

As you did before you are only looking at app opening times not total end to end task time. Basically cherry picking. There is more to performance than just using opening an app as your sole use case.

As stated before D) I want both. My Note 5 has both, my Surface Pro has both, why not my iDevices?

 

[Michael Goff]

Actually it would not be that hard. Your company's business model has to account for it. You have to plan for it when you develop a life cycle profile of your product(s). Especially true for a large traded company.
[doublepost=1452108494][/doublepost]

Huh? I'm not talking about stuttering per se, I'm looking at the potential planned obsolescence and the choice of allow downgrade vs. push it all to the latest from a business model perspective. Context.
[doublepost=1452108584][/doublepost]

As stated before D) I want both. My Note 5 has both, my Surface Pro has both, why not my iDevices?

Okay then. What marks planned Obselence to you? If poor performance isn't it, then obviously you have some special criteria.

 

[dk001]

Okay then. What marks planned Obselence to you? If poor performance isn't it, then obviously you have some special criteria.

Planned obsolescence is the marked EOL (End of Life) of the product and what steps are needed to retire it, replace it, and handle any legal/regulatory aspects of it. The EOL is product dictated as part of the development process. This is usually defined by engineering. An artificial EOL may be dictated by Sales or Finance.

Apple has two for each device: hardware and software - additional complexity.

 

[Michael Goff]

Planned obsolescence is the marked EOL (End of Life) of the product and what steps are needed to retire it, replace it, and handle any legal/regulatory aspects of it. The EOL is product dictated as part of the development process. This is usually defined by engineering. An artificial EOL may be dictated by Sales or Finance.

Apple has two for each device: hardware and software - additional complexity.

Okay.

Seriously, you've basically just told me nothing. You have come up with nothing to prove that Apple is doing anything specific to make older phones run ****** beyond not coding well. I've shiwn evidence that it isn't even working as well as it should on things released recently. That kind of shows it isn't some planned Obselence but bad coding.

And that's not even taking into account the quick ramp up from crap SoC that the 4S had. It was good for its time, I guess, but ARM has evolved quickly over the past four years. So we have a crappy SoC from the 4S that can't handle the features being hurled at a modern OS with the fact that they haven't really been focusing on how hurling those features affects the performance of any of their systems.

It isn't a plan, it's a lack of good planning that's gotten us here.

 

[I7guy]

Actually it would not be that hard. Your company's business model has to account for it. You have to plan for it when you develop a life cycle profile of your product(s). Especially true for a large traded company. It comes down to Ignorance, Incompetence, or It's in the Business Plan.
[doublepost=1452108494][/doublepost]

Huh? I'm not talking about stuttering per se, I'm looking at the potential planned obsolescence and the choice of allow downgrade vs. push it all to the latest from a business model perspective. Context.
[doublepost=1452108584][/doublepost]

As stated before D) I want both. My Note 5 has both, my Surface Pro has both, why not my iDevices?

You may want them both, but whatever you have on your idevice is your reality and use case and on your note and surface.

 

[Act3]

Well, if we are going to make specific call outs, it seems that what is said and highlighted in what is quoted there specifically seems to refer to apps and multitasking on iPads. There's no reference to older devices, as there is no reference to Control Center, as there is no reference to anything on the iPhone.

They do advertise this here, no mention of new devices, old devices or phones or ipads, every level.

Engineered to perform.At every level.
Under-the-hood refinements bring you more responsive performance, easier updates, better battery life, and tighter security. So your device works that much better — for everything you do with it.

 

[C DM]

They do advertise this here, no mention of new devices, old devices or phones or ipads, every level.

Engineered to perform.At every level.
Under-the-hood refinements bring you more responsive performance, easier updates, better battery life, and tighter security. So your device works that much better — for everything you do with it.

Now there they make a general marketing statement that they haven't lived up to in all respects for everyone.

 

[Michael Goff]

Now there they make a general marketing statement that they haven't lived up to in all respects for everyone.

And that's disappointing. Maybe with iOS 10 they'll learn a lesson and cut the number of devices. Just because I had a good experience doesn't mean I don't feel for those who haven't.

 

[Armen]

And that's disappointing. Maybe with iOS 10 they'll learn a lesson and cut the number of devices. Just because I had a good experience doesn't mean I don't feel for those who haven't.

You think cutting the devices is going to resolve any issues? the people who are cut are going to scream "Apple did it on purpose so I have to buy a new device!" whereas when they are included its "Apple did it on purpose so my device runs slow so I have to buy a new device!"

Either way Apple can't win.

 

[Michael Goff]

You think cutting the devices is going to resolve any issues? the people who are cut are going to scream "Apple did it on purpose so I have to buy a new device!" whereas when they are included its "Apple did it on purpose so my device runs slow so I have to buy a new device!"

Either way Apple can't win.

Then they should focus on the best user experience. And right now, I would argue their method isn't providing that. Because fewer devices to support means you can focus on making the fewer devices work better.

 

[Paddle1]

Then they should focus on the best user experience. And right now, I would argue their method isn't providing that. Because fewer devices to support means you can focus on making the fewer devices work better.

But why choose between newer updates and better performance? They can do both.

 

[Michael Goff]

But why choose between newer updates and better performance? They can do both.

As proven by the excellent performance on the 4S, right?

 

[Paddle1]

As proven by the excellent performance on the 4S, right?

As proven by the difference between iPhone 4 on iOS 7.0 vs 7.1 which they optimized for it. And that was on a much less powerful chip.

 

[Michael Goff]

As proven by the difference between iPhone 4 on iOS 7.0 vs 7.1 which they optimized for it. And that was on a much less powerful chip.

And that was still them not forcing themselves to support a phone as long as they've supported the 4S.

 

[nj1266]

As proven by the difference between iPhone 4 on iOS 7.0 vs 7.1 which they optimized for it. And that was on a much less powerful chip.

I am glad you brought that up. My iPhone 4 was unbearable on iOS 7. It became much better with iOS 7.1+.

Apple optimizes to the newest hardware first and works backwards from there. The same applied to the horrible iOS 8. As updates continued it became much smoother. The same will happen with iOS 9. iOS 9.2 is much better than iOS 9. That is why videos comparing the fully optimized iOS 8.4.2 to 9.0 on all hardware is pointless. Wait until 9.0 is fully optimized and then compare it to 8.4.2. I bet 9.4.x would crush 8.4.2 in smoothness and speed.