Pro Display XDR - Owners Thread

[Onimusha370]

Finally took the plunge today... should arrive early next week here in the UK. Was holding out till WWDC in the hope that the Mac Pro and updated XDR would be released together but no luck

Feels kinda crappy spending £5k on something 4 years old, but I'm sure it'll be great when its here. Does anyone have any idea how we find out when the new DisplayPort that supports 80Gb/s might be ready? I feel like they'll launch that monitor alongside new Macs that support 80Gb/s (thunderbolt 5?) and given we've recently had MBP, Mac Studio and Mac Pro updates, I can't see it happening anytime soon...

Just wish we had more clarity on the update cycle for the XDR, really difficult purchase in 2023.

 

[rumz]

Finally took the plunge today... should arrive early next week here in the UK. Was holding out till WWDC in the hope that the Mac Pro and updated XDR would be released together but no luck

Feels kinda crappy spending £5k on something 4 years old, but I'm sure it'll be great when its here. Does anyone have any idea how we find out when the new DisplayPort that supports 80Gb/s might be ready? I feel like they'll launch that monitor alongside new Macs that support 80Gb/s (thunderbolt 5?) and given we've recently had MBP, Mac Studio and Mac Pro updates, I can't see it happening anytime soon...

Just wish we had more clarity on the update cycle for the XDR, really difficult purchase in 2023.

My initial thought is that Apple doesn't seem to update their displays with a regular cadence (and thus I have low expectations for updates-- actually just really glad they make a couple). There have been cases where they updated / replaced a display in roughly a year (27" Cinema Display --> 27" Thunderbolt Display), but then that Thunderbolt Display eventually was discontinued and we had zero Apple displays for a few years (2016 - 2019). So... seems like it's 5-6 years max between display versions, and practically speaking we're about 3.5 years into the XDR.

On the other, it seems like display technology is moving at a much faster pace than it did for many of the Cinema Display and Thunderbolt Display years-- maybe it totally makes sense to update the XDR sooner than later. I think the only thing that's different with the XDR vs previous Apple displays is just how niche of a product it is (probably largely due to it's price).

Who knows-- what if the XDR never gets an update but just gets discontinued? Seems like the most likely upcoming display is a 27" with miniLED and high refresh rate. (There's more smoke around that one than the other rumored displays like a 7k or some kind of 24" display). The Studio Display has been named, positioned and marketed as the companion for the Mac Studio; will this new version be a "Studio Display XDR" or a will it be positioned "Pro" display? I only ask this based on how marginal the distinction between the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro is this year. There wasn't really a story around the Mac Pro that would make a new Pro Display make sense at this point.

 

[gugy]

I just wished Apple lowered the price of the XDR for something more realistic like $3k. It's been over three years and I remember the original ACD got a good price drop after a couple of years. Knowing Apple, it won't happen.

 

[- rob -]

You kind of have to read the tea leaves when buying Apple products.

Presume the value of a product is a relation between utility and price. And Apple generally doesn’t lower prices unless a product is upgraded.

The result is you get maximal value simply by owning a product longer.

Sometimes you pick the right horse, like going in early on the XDR or AirPods Max. I still think the Blackmagic eGPU was a good buy, since GPU power was low for so long leading up to Apple Silicon.

But other times you get something like a lemon in comparison. For example the last two years of the Intel MacBook Air. I had the 2018 MBA that thing was terrible.

The 2015 MBP is perhaps the poster child of an unfortunate product investment for many.

I’m a little surprised the XDR hasn’t seen an update yet, but perhaps it had planned to be.

If Apple Vision Pro was supposed to be available a year ago, a lower priced XDR (and presumably Studio display) might have taken a bit of the wind out of the sales of Vision’s virtual screen behavior.

 

[uller6]

The 2015 MBP is perhaps the poster child of an unfortunate product investment for many.

Really? These 2015 MBPs are still super fast today. My late 2013 (essentially the same as the late 2015 except no Force Touch and haptics on the trackpad) has lasted almost 10 years of exceptional service! I can definitely say it's the best computer purchase I've ever made. I have fond memories of writing my PhD thesis on that late 2013 machine, and it can still run Ventura smoothly (with OCLP). It might be the only Mac I never sell...

 

[alexdilley]

Hey Folks, I've been using the Belkin VR cable for awhile now. No problems really but it is a long cable, and I've had to be really careful with signal integrity through the KVM switch and to the other computers. I stumbled on a new cable on Amazon and decided to test it out. Good news: works great, it's cheap, and ships fast. I'm running stable at 6k with full brightness/etc controls via USB.

The cable made by "WJESOG" is on Amazon here for US$30. Make sure you get the "DP to USB-C" version.

If folks are hunting for a decent KVM switch, I've moved from my older StarTech DP1.2 2-port to the Monoprice Blackbird (also on Amazon for US$140 as of this writing) DP1.4 4-port. The video signal has been solid so far, but the USB HID emulation leaves a lot to be desired ... ended up with the keyboard and mouse on the non-HID ports to make everything work properly. Nothing is perfect in the KVM switch market, but it's good enough for now.

This is on a 2019 Mac Pro, AMD Radeon Pro W5700X GPU.

AGDCDiagnose output:

Stream@0 FB0    DICT    13
Stream ID    0
Is Enabled    YES
Is DPMS Off    NO
Change Flags    0
Option Flags    0
Sink Address    4.0
HW Src Viewport    6016x3384 @ {0,0}
HW Dst Viewport    6016x3384 @ {0,0}

Timing FB0    DICT    24
Display Mode    8000500f
Refresh Rate (Calculated)    60 Hz
Refresh Rate (Stored)    0.0 Hz
Window (Active)    6016 x 3384
Window (Scaled)    0 x 0
Scaled Inset    0 x 0
Pixel Clock    1286010000 Hz
Scaler Flags    0
Signal Config    0
Blanking    80 x 132
Border {left,right}    {0, 0}
Border {top,bottom}    {0, 0}
Sync Offset (h, v)    8 x 118
Sync Pulse Width (h, v)    32, 8
Sync Config (h, v)    + x -
Num Links    2
VB Extension    0
OUTPUT: Pixel Encoding    1 (RGB444)
OUTPUT: Bits Per Color Component    8 (12 bpc)
OUTPUT: Colorimetry    1 (RGB)
OUTPUT: Dynamic Range    2 (HDR10)
DSC: Num Slices    4 x 1
DSC: Slice Dimensions    1504 x 3384
DSC: Compressed BPP    12 bits, (192 bits*16) )

Current setup:

 ┌───────────────────────────┐
 │                           │
 │                           │
 │                           │
 │       Pro Display XDR     │
 │                           │
 │                           │
 │                           │
 └─────────────┬─────────────┘
               │
               │ <-- WJESOC Cable
               │
 ┌─────────────┴─────────────┐
 │ Monoprice Blackbird       │
 │ 4-port DP 1.4 KVM         │
 └───┬────────────────┬──────┘
     │                │
     │                │
 ┌───┴────┐     ┌─────┴──────┐
 │        │     │ StarTech   │
 │ Mac    │     │ TB3 Dock   │
 │ Pro    │     └─────┬──────┘
 │ 2019   │           │
 │        │     ┌─────┴──────┐
 │ W5700X │     │            │
 │        │     │ MacBook Pro│
 │        │     │ 2022 M1    │
 └────────┘     │            │
                ├────────────┤
                │            │
                └────────────┘

Can I confirm that the WJESOG DP to USB-C cable (ASIN B0BNX7MS6N; link below) connected between PC GPU (4090 FE in my case) and Pro Display XDR will work at 6K@60Hz with brightness controls, HDR and display preset selection? (The Amazon product description only stipulates a maximum resolution support of 4K@60Hz.)

If so, this effectively renders the expensive, unobtainable Belkin/Huawei cable redundant?

WJESOG DisplayPort to USB C Cable 6.6ft 4K@60Hz with USB Cable Adapter,DP Male to Type-C Male Converter Support Touch with Nreal Air VR, MacBook Pro/Air 2020/2018, iPad Pro/Air, XPS

Displayport to USB C Cable 6.6ft 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

 

[rkuo]

Really? These 2015 MBPs are still super fast today. My late 2013 (essentially the same as the late 2015 except no Force Touch and haptics on the trackpad) has lasted almost 10 years of exceptional service! I can definitely say it's the best computer purchase I've ever made. I have fond memories of writing my PhD thesis on that late 2013 machine, and it can still run Ventura smoothly (with OCLP). It might be the only Mac I never sell...

I mostly remember the intel MacBooks as instantly overheating when I started a build. In the last iterations, it was impossible to get 8 cores of performance out of them for more than a minute. It even mattered what side you plugged your macbook in because one side would overheat more than the other. The GPU’s were also not a good fit for a company that prioritizes slim designs over raw performance.

 

[gugy]

Really? These 2015 MBPs are still super fast today. My late 2013 (essentially the same as the late 2015 except no Force Touch and haptics on the trackpad) has lasted almost 10 years of exceptional service! I can definitely say it's the best computer purchase I've ever made. I have fond memories of writing my PhD thesis on that late 2013 machine, and it can still run Ventura smoothly (with OCLP). It might be the only Mac I never sell...

Yep. It is a great laptop. I had it and passed it to my son. I upgraded the HD to a superfast nvme and damn, amazing performance. Still solid to this day.

 

[uller6]

I mostly remember the intel MacBooks as instantly overheating when I started a build. In the last iterations, it was impossible to get 8 cores of performance out of them for more than a minute. It even mattered what side you plugged your macbook in because one side would overheat more than the other. The GPU’s were also not a good fit for a company that prioritizes slim designs over raw performance.

The 2012-2015 retina machines were not handicapped by an inadequate cooling system or stuffed with insanely hot CPUs. Mine is rated at 2.6 ghz, but when plugged in can run indefinitely at the maximum boost speed of 3.5 GHz (with fans blasting of course).

 

[DennisdeWit]

I’m contemplating between a second-hand Pro Display XDR or two new Studio Displays. I am a copywriter and I have always missed the glossy screen, the high ppi and I think the Pro Display XDR is a beautiful device.

However, does the Pro Display XDR last long? Since it would be a second-hand purchase, I’m a bit scared that it would break down out of warranty and the costs would be super high. Do these devices tend to have a lot of problems (suddenly dying, dead pixels and such)? I have had some really bad luck with dead pixels on my MacBooks in the past.

Is there a huge risk of buying a second-hand Pro Display XDR or should I go for the two Studio Displays?

 

[Onimusha370]

Arrived tonight! Man I can’t get over just how big this thing is, it’s a monster! Initial impressions:

• Build quality of both the monitor and stand is absolutely sensational
• I wish it had speakers…
• It’s incredible how hot it gets coming from the new MBPs. Makes me realise just how incredible the screens are in the MBPs that they can sustain 1000 nits and remain relatively cool
• It‘s interesting looking through photos and videos I’ve taken - full screening makes basically all content look pretty jaggy, with the exception of the 48mpx shots taken with the 14 Pro which look incredible. Definitely will encourage me to use the main camera more and take less telephoto shots
• Brightness, resolution, contrast are all exceptional, as expected
• I wish it was 120hz but I’m more okay with 60hz than I thought I’d be. There’s a bit of input lag from Magic Keyboard/Magic Trackpad which I’m not used to, but might be that they need re-pairing

Overall - it’s amazing…

 

[Onimusha370]

Sorry if this info is somewhere in the thread above... I wondered what everyones experience is with the display rocking slightly side to side? On my XDR, there's quite a bit of give (maybe 5 degrees either way) even when the orientation is locked. I just wanted to check that this behaviour is normal? My setup downstairs is inside a piano and when I'm recording this "looseness" is causing some slight bobbing side to side. Not a huge issue but looks kinda odd!

 

[thosmatthews]

Sorry if this info is somewhere in the thread above... I wondered what everyones experience is with the display rocking slightly side to side? On my XDR, there's quite a bit of give (maybe 5 degrees either way) even when the orientation is locked. I just wanted to check that this behaviour is normal? My setup downstairs is inside a piano and when I'm recording this "looseness" is causing some slight bobbing side to side. Not a huge issue but looks kinda odd!


View attachment 2220286

As far as I’m aware they’re all like this and is considered ‘normal’. Some say it’s useful if your desk isn’t quite level. It doesn’t bother me, but there is more ‘give’ than I would’ve expected!

 

[Onimusha370]

As far as I’m aware they’re all like this and is considered ‘normal’. Some say it’s useful if your desk isn’t quite level. It doesn’t bother me, but there is more ‘give’ than I would’ve expected!

Thanks for the reply - that’s good to know. Seems odd that they would let it rotate by so much when locked. I get it need to rotate to go into portrait, but would be much nicer if it truly “locked” into 0 degrees when using it in landscape. I’d started to think that I’d not attached the monitor properly to the stand, but I guess not!

 

[thosmatthews]

Thanks for the reply - that’s good to know. Seems odd that they would let it rotate by so much when locked. I get it need to rotate to go into portrait, but would be much nicer if it truly “locked” into 0 degrees when using it in landscape. I’d started to think that I’d not attached the monitor properly to the stand, but I guess not!

Yes admittedly I was surprised, it’s a little un-Apple like to have such give; even more so as I would think this is one of Ive’s few last designs before leaving.

 

[alexdilley]

Has anyone with the WJESOG cable (or Belkin HUAWEI VR Glass cable, or similar solutions) used to connect XDR to PC experienced occasional graphical glitches, whereby the screen flashes with highly pixelated sections (filling most of the screen)? Happens 50% of the time when booting tbh. Is this a known issue with a possible fix? 🙏

 

[joevt]

Has anyone with the WJESOG cable (or Belkin HUAWEI VR Glass cable, or similar solutions) used to connect XDR to PC experienced occasional graphical glitches, whereby the screen flashes with highly pixelated sections (filling most of the screen)? Happens 50% of the time when booting tbh. Is this a known issue with a possible fix? 🙏

DSC does compression on vertical slices of the screen. There's usually 4 slices. I suppose corruption in the data can affect an entire slice. DSC usually works in conjunction with FEC (forward error correction). I wonder if FEC is working while booting? Or if there's some kind of interference from other devices during the boot process?

 

[alexdilley]

DSC does compression on vertical slices of the screen. There's usually 4 slices. I suppose corruption in the data can affect an entire slice. DSC usually works in conjunction with FEC (forward error correction). I wonder if FEC is working while booting? Or if there's some kind of interference from other devices during the boot process?

That's very insightful, thanks. I have seen it not at boot, e.g. after sleep or removing and replacing the cable. So there's little commonality — it wouldn't be drivers/Windows itself else it wouldn't happen at boot. I wonder if there's a quality control issue with the cable so may order another; I'd also like to try the Belkin cable but it's v.hard to get hold of. I may also try this using my mobo TB header, with an aim to avoid the need for DSC...but am sure I've read reports it's a non-starter.

When it works, 6K HDR gaming (albeit @ 60fps/hz...but that's okay, honestly) with a 4090 on this screen is _incredible_, so I'm really keen to sort the stability.

 

[joevt]

I may also try this using my mobo TB header, with an aim to avoid the need for DSC...but am sure I've read reports it's a non-starter.

6K60 10bpc without DSC requires a dual HBR3 mode over Thunderbolt. I don't think Windows will enable that mode. Dual HBR3 is not normal for Thunderbolt because it would take more bandwidth than Thunderbolt allows. Apple forces the dual HBR3 mode over Thunderbolt. It works because the two 3008x3384 tiles don't require the entire bandwidth of HBR3 and Thunderbolt does not transmit the DisplayPort stuffing symbols that are used to fill the HBR3 bandwidth. The stuffing symbols are recreated when the Thunderbolt controller in the display converts the tunnelled DisplayPort stream back into normal DisplayPort.

I don't think Windows has an option to disable or enable DSC. If you choose a resolution or refresh rate that doesn't require DSC then probably DSC won't be used. That's about all the control you have over that. 4K60 doesn't require DSC. 5K60 8bpc doesn't require DSC but you probably want 10bpc for HDR.

6K60 6bpc might work without DSC but you probably don't want to try it. I don't know if you can play games at 6bpc? Actually 6K60 6bpc requires HBR3, and I think the XDR display only supports HBR2 when it's not doing the dual HBR3 mode.

The Dell 6K display might be able to do 6K60 6bpc. I'm not sure about that since the AllRez report I received for that display did not indicate HBR3 support in the DPCD 2201h register. It reported HBR even though it was set to HBR2 (doing 6K60 with DSC).

 

[alexdilley]

6K60 10bpc without DSC requires a dual HBR3 mode over Thunderbolt. I don't think Windows will enable that mode. Dual HBR3 is not normal for Thunderbolt because it would take more bandwidth than Thunderbolt allows. Apple forces the dual HBR3 mode over Thunderbolt. It works because the two 3008x3384 tiles don't require the entire bandwidth of HBR3 and Thunderbolt does not transmit the DisplayPort stuffing symbols that are used to fill the HBR3 bandwidth. The stuffing symbols are recreated when the Thunderbolt controller in the display converts the tunnelled DisplayPort stream back into normal DisplayPort.

I don't think Windows has an option to disable or enable DSC. If you choose a resolution or refresh rate that doesn't require DSC then probably DSC won't be used. That's about all the control you have over that. 4K60 doesn't require DSC. 5K60 8bpc doesn't require DSC but you probably want 10bpc for HDR.

6K60 6bpc might work without DSC but you probably don't want to try it. I don't know if you can play games at 6bpc? Actually 6K60 6bpc requires HBR3, and I think the XDR display only supports HBR2 when it's not doing the dual HBR3 mode.

The Dell 6K display might be able to do 6K60 6bpc. I'm not sure about that since the AllRez report I received for that display did not indicate HBR3 support in the DPCD 2201h register. It reported HBR even though it was set to HBR2 (doing 6K60 with DSC).

wow...this is knowledge! Good to know that 6K60 10bpc without DSC (in Windows) is ruled out; saves believing throwing money at it (for a TB4 card) might be solution. I appreciate the response!

An update: I RTFM (my mobo manual). Turns out I incorrectly assumed an option provided by the motherboard wouldn't work out: my ASUS ProArt B650-CREATOR supports DP Alt Mode. Connecting my GPU (DP-out) to the motherboard's DP-in, and then the mobo's USB-C port (shared with DP graphic output) to the XDR (using the Apple TB4 Pro cable provided), I get (seemingly stable) 6K60 10bpc with HDR! I had ruled this out because I didn't think 10bps was enough bandwidth for this...is it, or is Windows reporting incorrectly?

So given my particular setup, I seemingly don't require a special cable, albeit the XDR USB hub likely provides no function (but I personally don't require it). This is a huge win if it actually turns out to be a viable solution!

 

[joevt]

An update: I RTFM (my mobo manual). Turns out I incorrectly assumed an option provided by the motherboard wouldn't work out: my ASUS ProArt B650-CREATOR supports DP Alt Mode. Connecting my GPU (DP-out) to the motherboard's DP-in, and then the mobo's USB-C port (shared with DP graphic output) to the XDR (using the Apple TB4 Pro cable provided), I get (seemingly stable) 6K60 10bpc with HDR! I had ruled this out because I didn't think 10bps was enough bandwidth for this...is it, or is Windows reporting incorrectly?

10 Gbps is the USB 3.1 gen 2 speed.

A USB-C cable has 4 super speed wires that can do 10 Gbps each for USB. A Thunderbolt cable can do 20 Gbps each.

USB 3.1 uses only two of the wires, one for receive and one for transmit. The other two can be used by DisplayPort Alt Mode (2 lanes up to HBR3 (8.1 Gbps) per lane).

The DisplayPort Alt Mode that the XDR uses is 4 lanes of DisplayPort with USB 2.0. The USB 2.0 wires are separate in a USB-C or Thunderbolt cable. The XDR uses HBR2 (5.4 Gbps per lane) with DSC to achieve 6K60.

So given my particular setup, I seemingly don't require a special cable, albeit the XDR USB hub likely provides no function (but I personally don't require it). This is a huge win if it actually turns out to be a viable solution!

The XDR's USB hub can work at USB 2.0 speed when the XDR is connected with DisplayPort Alt Mode instead of Thunderbolt. A Thunderbolt connection is required for the XDR's USB hub to work at USB 3.0 speed.

 

[oogje]

Just replaced my 30-inch Cinema Display with a Pro Display XDR a few days ago. This has nano-texture glass, and as the display just had its first run-in with a fly (on the top, not the screen), I'm wondering how difficult it will be to clean insect byproducts off the glass.

 

[savjam]

Apple's recommendation:

Clean the nano-texture glass​

To remove dust or smudges from the nano-texture glass screen, use only the polishing cloth that came with your Studio Display, Pro Display XDR, or iMac.

For infrequent cleaning of hard-to-remove smudges, you can moisten the cloth with a 70-percent isopropyl alcohol (IPA) solution.

 

[oogje]

Thanks. Dust, smudges and hard-to-remove smudges - check. Surely, I'll eventually have to clean something more tricky. With any luck, by then some YouTubers will have shown how they cleaned peanut butter and jelly from their screens.

[ETA] Following your hint I came across an Apple support page that allows for "hard-to-remove substances". Same as hard-to-remove smudges. Now I feel better.

 

[ric275]

I’m hoping to keep my XDR for many, many years. It was definitely an investment, and if the Studio Display existed when I bought it, I probably wouldn’t have - because I don’t need it… but I love it and I hope to get at least 10 years from it 😍