iPhone 13 Pro Really bad photos with iPhone 13 Pro (+Max) Merged

[ToddH]

Beta 15.4.2 iOS installed
Still nothing
Comparing to Lightroom DNG files. Looks like they are finally leaving more noise) meaning less noise removal processing. It left fabric texture from 3 meters in poor lighting! They messed it a bit. But not totally as it was before. And best thing - seems they fixed bad white balance.

Two photos: crops as it is possible to zoom on iPhone.
Taken with tele lens iPhone

View attachment 1957277

More warm photo is from Lightroom and white balance is too warm:

View attachment 1957278

But still things are bad:
iPhone messed up with paper and metal:

View attachment 1957282

Lightroom DNG is good:

View attachment 1957281

And now GOOD thing, at least for me.

In very this topic I’ve read about portraits mode is less aggressive in noise removal and all the AI. So here are two examples. Look down on the black surface to see how digital noise appears there. And of course on the fabric texture and it’s sharpness. Softer is from portrait mode.
Both shots are taken From 3 meters with tele lens.

Portrait mode:

View attachment 1957287

And regular photo mode:

View attachment 1957288

Same napkin and metal box.
Portrait mode:

View attachment 1957292

Regular photo mode:

View attachment 1957291

Not a solution but definitely workaround. Just put f16 in the portrait mode settings to get maximum DoF. Good that now camera app saves all settings you’ve maid

White balance in the portrait mode is also the best. Regular photo mode is a bit colder.

My advice is to stop shooting highly compressed jpeg files and use raw or ProRAW from now on and just use jpeg files for the snapshots that you will not want to keep or use. If storage is an issue, the iPhone comes in a 512gb & 1TB model. Also I wouldn’t think a beta version is going to be a good way to test the camera until that version is finalized. I have two 13 pro max iPhones and they both are identical in terms of image quality. But then again I always shoot RAW. If any of you consider yourself a dedicated photographer, then you’ll shoot raw. The apps I like best are the BeastCam, Moment, and Halide for ProRAW.

 

[AlGardner]

My advice is to stop shooting highly compressed jpeg files and use raw or ProRAW from now on and just use jpeg files for the snapshots that you will not want to keep or use. If storage is an issue, the iPhone comes in a 512gb & 1TB model. Also I wouldn’t think a beta version is going to be a good way to test the camera until that version is finalized. I have two 13 pro max iPhones and they both are identical in terms of image quality. But then again I always shoot RAW. If any of you consider yourself a dedicated photographer, then you’ll shoot raw. The apps I like best are the BeastCam, Moment, and Halide for ProRAW.

Why would I do that?
I need good photos, nothing else. As it was before.
Before “highly compressed JPEG”. Was ok
And if you’ve read my comment- first thing I was comparing DNG (Lightroom raw) and Apple jpeg. For me it’s identical except too much post processing.
I don’t want edit Raw files, it’s size is big even for my 512
I don’t want edit it at all))
I want iPhone to be an iPhone as it was before)

 

[ToddH]

Why would I do that?
I need good photos, nothing else. As it was before.
Before “highly compressed JPEG”. Was ok
And if you’ve read my comment- first thing I was comparing DNG (Lightroom raw) and Apple jpeg. For me it’s identical except too much post processing.
I don’t want edit Raw files, it’s size is big even for my 512
I don’t want edit it at all))
I want iPhone to be an iPhone as it was before)

OK I understand. I guess shooting raw is not for everyone but how are you going to come away with a really good clean image if you don’t edit your photos? Apparently you don’t care how they’re going to look in the end so so why do you complain about image quality? There’s no magic camera out there, you have to create it yourself. The camera is a tool that the photographer uses.. You can shoot JPEG with the apps that I mentioned above and they don’t apply the smart HDR that you see in the Apple default camera, instead it’s a cleaner looking image. The ones I like best and use most frequently are BeastCam pro and the Moment app.

Jpegs
BeastCam

Apple

Moment

BeastCam with focus peeking

 

[AlGardner]

I guess shooting raw is not for everyone but how are you going to come away with a really good clean image if you don’t edit your photos? Apparently you don’t care how they’re going to look in the end so so why do you complain about image quality? There’s no magic camera out there, you have to create it yourself.

For RAW I have full frame body and some good lenses.

I’m complaining about the image quality, because it is worse than it could be without “smart hdr”, as it was on the previous iPhones, where was toggle to turn it off.

Half messages in this thread from the beginning were about it. Exactly about it.

 

[ToddH]

For RAW I have full frame body and some good lenses.

I’m complaining about the image quality, because it is worse than it could be without “smart hdr”, as it was on the previous iPhones, where was toggle to turn it off.

Half messages in this thread from the beginning were about it. Exactly about it.

Well take in mind that Apple knows that a majority of the iPhone users out there aren’t photographers and don’t know much about how to control light or compose a photo so they have to make the iPhone camera as user-friendly as possible for anyone to get the best photo they can without trying. If you want a good photo, you are going to have to put forth extra effort to do so. I know if people aren’t ambitious enough for that all I can say is, WOW, SMH!

 

[ManuCH]

Meanwhile I got answers to my question to Halide as to why their HEIC photo looks so much better than the one taken with the iPhone stock photo app, even though it should be "the same":

In general, our HEIC will be bigger and higher quality than one taken in the first party camera app. This is due to the fact that we choose a higher quality compression setting.

 

[tedley]

Well take in mind that Apple knows that a majority of the iPhone users out there aren’t photographers and don’t know much about how to control light or compose a photo so they have to make the iPhone camera as user-friendly as possible for anyone to get the best photo they can without trying. If you want a good photo, you are going to have to put forth extra effort to do so. I know if people aren’t ambitious enough for that all I can say is, WOW, SMH!

I agree with you completely with regards to using a 3rd party app and photo editing. In fact, I'll probably try beastcam based on some of the images you've posted - really looks promising. I do think that Apple could allow the user to toggle the HDR on and off. This would please both crowds, the photographers and the instagram hipsters. They had the toggle in the 12 pro on iOS 14 and the idiots removed it!! WHY??? Even better, would be a complete manual mode. The hipsters wouldn't even know it was there and we photographers would be pleased. Even MORE happy customers!!!

 

[al0kz]

I might be in the minority here but I would never pixel peep and scrutinize a processed jpeg image from a miniature 12MP sensor (I don’t expect to gain much from it). The stock iphone camera represents “good enough” rather well for most people and it shows from all the reviews and user experience out there. For those of us that need more control, there are a plethora of third-party apps that handle what were looking for.

Only thing Apple really needs here to satisfy everyone is a “PRO” mode that lets us choose the lens we want to choose without any sort of AI processing. Dig it into the settings menu if you have to, just make it available.

 

[Bishope1999]

Well take in mind that Apple knows that a majority of the iPhone users out there aren’t photographers and don’t know much about how to control light or compose a photo so they have to make the iPhone camera as user-friendly as possible for anyone to get the best photo they can without trying. If you want a good photo, you are going to have to put forth extra effort to do so. I know if people aren’t ambitious enough for that all I can say is, WOW, SMH!

But Apple knows that the majority of their users don't understand what is the true benefit of recording video with HDR is, besides the basic understanding of HDR photo, which is completely different than HDR video. Let alone will most people even understand the benefits of recording video with Dolby Vision HDR.

Not to mention they can only see it on a tiny screen as the majority don't have a TV that supports Dolby Vision HDR, they likely have the faux HDR label on the new 4K TV they just bought..... which can't do true HDR (HDR10, HDR10+ or HLG)

Also, as iPhones are so popular with teens, most of these videos they decide to record in portrait mode, will end up in a social media website.

With that logic about the pictures, something that worked fine on the iPhone 11 with the stock camera app. Why did Apple add so many high end features to the video recording, that the majority people don't understand and will not use?

 

[Bishope1999]

I might be in the minority here but I would never pixel peep and scrutinize a processed jpeg image from a miniature 12MP sensor (I don’t expect to gain much from it). The stock iphone camera represents “good enough” rather well for most people and it shows from all the reviews and user experience out there. For those of us that need more control, there are a plethora of third-party apps that handle what were looking for.

Only thing Apple really needs here to satisfy everyone is a “PRO” mode that lets us choose the lens we want to choose without any sort of AI processing. Dig it into the settings menu if you have to, just make it available.

I didn't use the iPhone 12, but if you used the iPhone 11, without even zooming in, can't you see the degrade of image processing on the iPhone 13 Pro Max?

I'll admit, it may be what each user like. I showed a friend a similar pic between the iPhone 11, G21 Ultra, and iPhone 13. While they said they liked the night picture of the GS21 Ultra more, they liked the iPhone 13 Pro Max and GS21 Ultra image much more so than the iPhone 11.

That post processing might be a thing average people really like. :/

 

[ToddH]

But Apple knows that the majority of their users don't understand what is the true benefit of recording video with HDR is, besides the basic understanding of HDR photo, which is completely different than HDR video. Let alone will most people even understand the benefits of recording video with Dolby Vision HDR.

Not to mention they can only see it on a tiny screen as the majority don't have a TV that supports Dolby Vision HDR, they likely have the faux HDR label on the new 4K TV they just bought..... which can't do true HDR (HDR10, HDR10+ or HLG)

Also, as iPhones are so popular with teens, most of these videos they decide to record in portrait mode, will end up in a social media website.

With that logic about the pictures, something that worked fine on the iPhone 11 with the stock camera app. Why did Apple add so many high end features to the video recording, that the majority people don't understand and will not use?

I’m not sure. I suppose they did it to attract a larger audience and get more sales?? I am not having the issues with my 13 pro max iPhones and I can understand the frustration here. I would expect the pro and pro max iPhone to have the best image quality and the regular 13 and 13 mini have standard image quality. But apparently they put the same recipe on all of the iPhones. Anyway I’m just adding my two cents trying to help anybody I can by offering other options/apps.

 

[Bishope1999]

I’m not sure. I suppose they did it to attract a larger audience and get more sales?? I am not having the issues with my 13 pro max iPhones and I can understand the frustration here. I would expect the pro and pro max iPhone to have the best image quality and the regular 13 and 13 mini have standard image quality. But apparently they put the same recipe on all of the iPhones. Anyway I’m just adding my two cents trying to help anybody I can by offering other options/apps.

I respect that opinion and thank you. Sorry if it come off wrong, I thought it meant that Apple added this post processing because most would like it better.

I agree, a Pro mode is best, but the solutions you add do help. I would say, that along with the different modes they added to the camera profile, I would greatly appreciate if Apple added an extra mode that had HDR/Fusion off.

Still, this phone is mainly for the 4k/60fps Dolby Vision HDR recording for me. At least there, Apple didn't do anything that I would consider as wrong.

 

[ToddH]

I respect that opinion and thank you. Sorry if it come off wrong, I thought it meant that Apple added this post processing because most would like it better.

I agree, a Pro mode is best, but the solutions you add do help. I would say, that along with the different modes they added to the camera profile, I would greatly appreciate if Apple added an extra mode that had HDR/Fusion off.

Still, this phone is mainly for the 4k/60fps Dolby Vision HDR recording for me. At least there, Apple didn't do anything that I would consider as wrong.

Since you shoot a lot of video as you described, have you tried the app FilmicPro? Lots of features and pros use this app fo making full length movies! So much control. And it supports 10 bit hdr video. Just curious. I’m trying to shoot more video, but my weakness is editing. I need to learn LumaFusion better…

The deep fusion I think is really good. The apps I shared use it but not the extra HDR. I can see the difference in the blue sky as it’s not so saturated.

 

[Bishope1999]

Since you shoot a lot of video as you described, have you tried the app FilmicPro? Lots of features and pros use this app fo making full length movies! So much control. And it supports 10 bit hdr video. Just curious. I’m trying to shoot more video, but my weakness is editing. I need to learn LumaFusion better…

The deep fusion I think is really good. The apps I shared use it but not the extra HDR. I can see the difference in the blue sky as it’s not so saturated.

Since my Apple devices have been the iPad Pro (2017), iPhone 11, and now the iPhone 13 Pro Max, I usually don't buy apps on iOS or Android. If FilmicPro is worth it, I would buy it though. I will look into this app now and see what it offers as I am really not as familiar with the best apps on iOS or Android to be honest.

My mistake, I may have mixed up Deep Fusion with HDR on the Apple devices.

I usually use my Canon Camcorder, but now I have a better reason to use a phone camera since it offers HDR10 and Dolby Vision HDR, plus it's easier to carry around. For personal use mostly

If I just want to edit videos together, I use Sony Vegas Pro. If I want to add effects or more things then I'll run it through Adobe After Effects and Premier. I find it much easier to edit on my computer.

Back to FilmicPro, do you know if it lets you adjust the bitrate? While the bitrate is good on the Apple Camera, some compression artifacts do show up and I feel that could be remedied by increasing the bitrate to 120Mbps or so, unless it is baked into the algorithm. Prores is too limited for my liking.

Honestly though, all of this is very all impressive for a phone. I remember being a teen and being able to borrow a VHS camcorder to record home videos once in a blue moon. Now it's right in my pocket.

 

[al0kz]

Since my Apple devices have been the iPad Pro (2017), iPhone 11, and now the iPhone 13 Pro Max, I usually don't buy apps on iOS or Android. If FilmicPro is worth it, I would buy it though. I will look into this app now and see what it offers as I am really not as familiar with the best apps on iOS or Android to be honest.

My mistake, I may have mixed up Deep Fusion with HDR on the Apple devices.

I usually use my Canon Camcorder, but now I have a better reason to use a phone camera since it offers HDR10 and Dolby Vision HDR, plus it's easier to carry around. For personal use mostly

If I just want to edit videos together, I use Sony Vegas Pro. If I want to add effects or more things then I'll run it through Adobe After Effects and Premier. I find it much easier to edit on my computer.

Back to FilmicPro, do you know if it lets you adjust the bitrate? While the bitrate is good on the Apple Camera, some compression artifacts do show up and I feel that could be remedied by increasing the bitrate to 120Mbps or so, unless it is baked into the algorithm. Prores is too limited for my liking.

Honestly though, all of this is very all impressive for a phone. I remember being a teen and being able to borrow a VHS camcorder to record home videos once in a blue moon. Now it's right in my pocket.

I second the use of Filmic Pro if you love shooting video on an iphone. They disclose the following info on their website:

FiLMiC Extreme: 120 mbps
FiLMiC Quality: 75 mbps
Standard: 50 mbps
Economy: 35 mbps

These are the targets at 4K. I wholeheartedly recommend Filmic if you like to shoot and subsequently edit a lot of video on iPhone. Well worth it’s cost.

 

[Bishope1999]

I second the use of Filmic Pro if you love shooting video on an iphone. They disclose the following info on their website:

FiLMiC Extreme: 120 mbps
FiLMiC Quality: 75 mbps
Standard: 50 mbps
Economy: 35 mbps

These are the targets at 4K. I wholeheartedly recommend Filmic if you like to shoot and subsequently edit a lot of video on iPhone. Well worth it’s cost.

Thank you! Great information and I will buy this app because of all the useful info you pointed out. Especially 120mbps which is what I was looking for as a possible way to avoid the compression artifacts I am seeing. Thanks a lot.

I don't edit videos on phones, mainly because the screens are too small for the work flow, for me at least. Plus, the Ryzen 9 3900X CPU is much better at editing such high bitrate videos and I have more flexibility.

Thanks once again, I greatly appreciate you both pointing me to this great app for video recording!

 

[atari4]

LOL, iphone makes things disappear, that magic camera sucks...

 

[darkheroz]

photo quality is one idea better with current 15.3.1. 13pro

 

[trsdvg]

Zero camera improvements on iOS 13.3.1

photo quality is one idea better with current 15.3.1. 13proView attachment 1958316

Zero improvements for native cam app on iOS 15.3.1 in my case. Photo low light too match denoised and oversaturated

 

[ToddH]

Thank you! Great information and I will buy this app because of all the useful info you pointed out. Especially 120mbps which is what I was looking for as a possible way to avoid the compression artifacts I am seeing. Thanks a lot.

I don't edit videos on phones, mainly because the screens are too small for the work flow, for me at least. Plus, the Ryzen 9 3900X CPU is much better at editing such high bitrate videos and I have more flexibility.

Thanks once again, I greatly appreciate you both pointing me to this great app for video recording!

Yeah you bet. Like I said there are a lot of cinematic professionals out there that make a full length movies with this app because it’s that good. It does take some getting used to but you have full control over your shutter speed and aperture etc. frame rate and there are a lot of YouTube instruction videos / tutorials on this app as well

 

[ToddH]

Ok… I was suggested by an Instagramer to check out the Reeflex app. So I did. I’m pleasantly surprised at how it works. The most noticeable difference is there isn’t any HDR like the default camera has. The controls give me the feel of my DSLR camera as with the image quality. I am using the ProRAW option in the app, jpeg looks good too, just watch your highlights and be sure to not let them get overexposed. It is now my go-to camera app for raw shooting. I took this photo of one of my chairs that had sunlight on it coming through the window. The end result is a pleasant exposure. And a shot of the moon. There aren’t any submissions, it’s $4.99. So if you are interested in an app that doesn’t have the baked in HDR like the default camera has, this is a great choice. It does star trails and light trails as well. Anyway, thought I’d share

 

[babyexercise]

I might be in the minority here but I would never pixel peep and scrutinize a processed jpeg image from a miniature 12MP sensor (I don’t expect to gain much from it). The stock iphone camera represents “good enough” rather well for most people and it shows from all the reviews and user experience out there. For those of us that need more control, there are a plethora of third-party apps that handle what were looking for.

Only thing Apple really needs here to satisfy everyone is a “PRO” mode that lets us choose the lens we want to choose without any sort of AI processing. Dig it into the settings menu if you have to, just make it available.

Apple would not do that since the 2 lens are too bad without enough light.

 

[lybentius]

I get photos that are sometimes way too HDRy for my taste. I prefer a more natural look.

 

[al0kz]

Apple would not do that since the 2 lens are too bad without enough light.

“Bad” is subjective. I don’t need all my photos to be bright from corner to corner with every pixel resolved with clear detail. I know the limitations of the sensor, so I can work with it.

 

[babyexercise]

“Bad” is subjective. I don’t need all my photos to be bright from corner to corner with every pixel resolved with clear detail. I know the limitations of the sensor, so I can work with it.

Apple just wants best photos for normal people and no extra option to make most people feel easy to use.

They want sales number, not trying to make best perfect phone.