iPhone 13 Pro Really bad photos with iPhone 13 Pro (+Max) Merged

[darkheroz]

Ok… I was suggested by an Instagramer to check out the Reeflex app. So I did. I’m pleasantly surprised at how it works. The most noticeable difference is there isn’t any HDR like the default camera has. The controls give me the feel of my DSLR camera as with the image quality. I am using the ProRAW option in the app, jpeg looks good too, just watch your highlights and be sure to not let them get overexposed. It is now my go-to camera app for raw shooting. I took this photo of one of my chairs that had sunlight on it coming through the window. The end result is a pleasant exposure. And a shot of the moon. There aren’t any submissions, it’s $4.99. So if you are interested in an app that doesn’t have the baked in HDR like the default camera has, this is a great choice. It does star trails and light trails as well. Anyway, thought I’d share

View attachment 1958619

View attachment 1958618

Seems better!!!
Native vs Reeflex. Look car plates !

 

[ToddH]

Moonrise: 13 Pro max

Reeflex app. Apple ProRAW, Lightroom mobile. So far I’m loving this app!

 

[golfnut1982]

With the Reeflex camera, switching between the zooms is very clunky. Why? iPhone Pro 13.

 

[AlGardner]

Moonrise: 13 Pro max

Reeflex app. Apple ProRAW, Lightroom mobile. So far I’m loving this app!

Theoretically:

Apple ProRAW - it is fully baked in post processing, no matter what app you are using. All what you are getting after-you can get with the stock app.
BUT: my experiments with opening proRAW, shot with the stock camera app, in the Lightroom, shows it resets any baked in post processing, leaving us with the pure raw file.
The opposite situation is with ProRAW from the Reeflex, which keeps all the artifacts of the baked in post processing, including horrible noise removal levels (can see it on the trees on your photo as well, low level of details)
So, may be I’m not fully right about it, considering further editing in Lightroom app ProRAW files from the different apps.
It can be easily checked: take one photo with the Reeflex, and another with the stock app, and open both of them in the Lightroom

Raw - it is what camera sensor “sees” exactly without any processing, so, again, the app doesn’t matter.
But: the app can apply any processing it’s creators implemented, so - may depend on the app, and, hopefully, can be reverted (proRAW - can’t, that’s why it’s useless in cases of wrong AI processing-no way to undo sharpening, de-noising, etc).
For example, Lightroom HDR processing applies to the Raw files, but it can only be completely removed, no way (for now) to adjust its levels, and often it is too noisy and bright.

JPEG, HEIF, other processed formats, - the same things, as for the “Raw” applying.

This leaves us only with processed inside the app images like Raw or JPEG, etc.

And, all this attempts to compare apps and find the silver bullet are useless. Unless you’ll heavily invest your time in the manual photo processing in Lightroom or similar app.

I was thoroughly reviewing Jpegs from different apps which were attached couple of pages ago on the MacBook screen. In details, It was all the same. Difference is only in jpeg compression level and white balance.

What I’m wondering, is this thing: proRAW is huge, meaning it contains all the processing history in layers, similar to photoshop files. Why it can’t be edited?
And, If there is no way to revert/edit that layers, why keep it at all? Is that some functionality what is turned off, or maybe, it’ll be available later when necessary tools will be added to the camera app? Apparently now Lightroom is just ignoring it

 

[ToddH]

Theoretically:

Apple ProRAW - it is fully baked in post processing, no matter what app you are using. All what you are getting after-you can get with the stock app.
BUT: my experiments with opening proRAW in the Lightroom shows it resets any baked in post processing, leaving us wit the pure raw file. So, may be I’m wrong about it, considering further editing in Lightroom app.

Raw - it is what camera sensor “sees” exactly without any processing, so, again, the app doesn’t matter.
But: the app can apply any processing it’s creators implemented, so - may depend on the app, and, hopefully, can be reverted (proRAW - can’t, that’s why it’s useless in cases of wrong AI processing-no way to undo sharpening, de-noising, etc).
For example, Lightroom HDR processing applies to the Raw files, but it can only be completely removed, no way (for now) to adjust its levels, and often it is too noisy and bright.

JPEG, HEIF, other processed formats, - the same things, as for the “Raw” applying.

This leaves us only with processed inside the app images like Raw or JPEG, etc.

And, all this attempts to compare apps and find the silver bullet are useless. Unless you’ll heavily invest your time in the manual photo processing in Lightroom or similar app.

I was thoroughly reviewing Jpegs from different apps which were attached couple of pages ago on the MacBook screen. In details, It was all the same. Difference is only in jpeg compression level and white balance.

What I’m wondering, is this thing: proRAW is huge, meaning it contains all the processing history in layers, similar to photoshop files. Why it can’t be edited?
And, If there is no way to revert/edit that layers, why keep it at all? Is that some functionality what is turned off, or maybe, it’ll be available later when necessary tools will be added to the camera app?…

Yes I familiar with all that you mentioned, I just like the app because of the manual controls and exposure / shutter speed adjustment etc. I tried using plan direct raw, but it’s noisy and full of color noise. It doesn’t look as good as ProRAW. Sure the ProRAW files have deep fusion added, but no smart HDR baked in, just ProRAW only. I feel like the ProRAW files easy to work with. Yeah it may not be true raw, but it is a raw file about 29mb give or take.

I can really see the difference in ProRAW vs jpeg when shooting the night sky, mainly the Milky Way. I can’t control the default camera like I can when using a third party app. It’s not like my Sony 7RIII, but it’s great for the iPhone.

I use Lightroom on my iPhone or iPad Pro to edit my ProRAW files. My cameras (default camera and third party apps) is permanently set to raw. I don’t shoot jpeg unless I don’t want to or need to edit an image. I have trained my eye to see like a camera sees which helps me a lot when composing a photo and exposing for it. I push the iPhone camera to the max, trying to squeeze every detail out of the sensor. So third party apps like Reeflex, Halide, Moment, etc all do something different for me when capturing an image. I’m working on which of these apps gives me the best results. So far, Reeflex and BeastCam Pro do very well for me when using ProRAW. Moment isn’t bad either, but I use it the least.

Some may not like ProRAW, I do. Besides, all of our photos end up on social media anyway where the quality of the photo degrades heavily. I love the Even longer app which stacks pure raw files and completely removes noise from a photo because noise is random. That app produces the best raw files I’ve ever seen on an iPhone. The downside is a tripod must always be used. For example, the image of my Sony is comprised of 82 raw files stacked of a period of 1 minute & 20 seconds with my iPhones 3x camera mounted on a tripod. It’s so clean. This is what I enjoy doing with my iPhone… Most people would never take the time to do this. Photography sometimes take a lot of patience. I enjoyed your reply…

Todd

 

[AlGardner]

Yes I familiar with all that you mentioned, I just like the app because of the manual controls and exposure / shutter speed adjustment etc. I tried using plan direct raw, but it’s noisy and full of color noise. It doesn’t look as good as ProRAW. Sure the ProRAW files have deep fusion added, but no smart HDR baked in, just ProRAW only. I feel like the ProRAW files easy to work with. Yeah it may not be true raw, but it is a raw file about 29mb give or take.

I can really see the difference in ProRAW vs jpeg when shooting the night sky, mainly the Milky Way. I can’t control the default camera like I can when using a third party app. It’s not like my Sony 7RIII, but it’s great for the iPhone.

I use Lightroom on my iPhone or iPad Pro to edit my ProRAW files. My cameras (default camera and third party apps) is permanently set to raw. I don’t shoot jpeg unless I don’t want to or need to edit an image. I have trained my eye to see like a camera sees which helps me a lot when composing a photo and exposing for it. I push the iPhone camera to the max, trying to squeeze every detail out of the sensor. So third party apps like Reeflex, Halide, Moment, etc all do something different for me when capturing an image. I’m working on which of these apps gives me the best results. So far, Reeflex and BeastCam Pro do very well for me when using ProRAW. Moment isn’t bad either, but I use it the least.

Some may not like ProRAW, I do. Besides, all of our photos end up on social media anyway where the quality of the photo degrades heavily. I love the Even longer app which stacks pure raw files and completely removes noise from a photo because noise is random. That app produces the best raw files I’ve ever seen on an iPhone. The downside is a tripod must always be used. For example, the image of my Sony is comprised of 82 raw files stacked of a period of 1 minute & 20 seconds with my iPhones 3x camera mounted on a tripod. It’s so clean. This is what I enjoy doing with my iPhone… Most people would never take the time to do this. Photography sometimes take a lot of patience. I enjoyed your reply…

Todd

Thanks for your reply)

You’ve mentioned here, that no smart hdr applied in ProRAW with the Reeflex app, which is unclear for me: I just took couple of photos in a poor lighting conditions, and voila- all the noise removal artifacts are in place.
And other thing with the Reeflex - it takes so long to save ProRAW file, like 1-2 seconds on my 13pro max. No way to use in reporting style of photography.

I agree with you, for night shooting all the manual stuff with these third party apps is great, as well as for not dynamic scenes.
But for me the most important thing is “point and shoot” with my daughter playing or walking, etc. it’s very dynamic scene with almost no time to adjust settings.
That was the main reason I upgraded my old XR for this one.
And with this requirements all that noise removal stuff becomes really bad - hairs and fabric textures are mostly affecting.

Shooting nature, stars, and so one, having time to use tripod and long exposure- no complains from me will be at all, because new sensor is really better.
But trying to catch moments, using reporters style photography, then picking from dozens of photos one or two good, that is why I want properly working stock camera. And not some extra capabilities, not that great output as your photos (they are great, especially with the camera!), just to capture the scene as it is: smile, hairs, eyes. With all the details. Without too black shadows, too bright unnatural colors and fully polished skin and ruined hair texture (light hairs- it is very hard for this camera not to mess up ).

Why I do not want to stop using it - because some time it gives truly amazing shots!

And I understand very well that every photo can’t be perfect. But I just want it to be as technically perfect as it is possible in current conditions. And it often disappoints me, because I know it can be better than it is.
All this is about misalignment between expectations (made by advertising and reviews as a “best camera ever” with really great photos attached as a proof) and how it works in a real world.

 

[ManuCH]

Theoretically:

Apple ProRAW - it is fully baked in post processing, no matter what app you are using. All what you are getting after-you can get with the stock app.
BUT: my experiments with opening proRAW, shot with the stock camera app, in the Lightroom, shows it resets any baked in post processing, leaving us with the pure raw file.
The opposite situation is with ProRAW from the Reeflex, which keeps all the artifacts of the baked in post processing, including horrible noise removal levels (can see it on the trees on your photo as well, low level of details)
So, may be I’m not fully right about it, considering further editing in Lightroom app ProRAW files from the different apps.
It can be easily checked: take one photo with the Reeflex, and another with the stock app, and open both of them in the Lightroom

Raw - it is what camera sensor “sees” exactly without any processing, so, again, the app doesn’t matter.
But: the app can apply any processing it’s creators implemented, so - may depend on the app, and, hopefully, can be reverted (proRAW - can’t, that’s why it’s useless in cases of wrong AI processing-no way to undo sharpening, de-noising, etc).
For example, Lightroom HDR processing applies to the Raw files, but it can only be completely removed, no way (for now) to adjust its levels, and often it is too noisy and bright.

JPEG, HEIF, other processed formats, - the same things, as for the “Raw” applying.

This leaves us only with processed inside the app images like Raw or JPEG, etc.

And, all this attempts to compare apps and find the silver bullet are useless. Unless you’ll heavily invest your time in the manual photo processing in Lightroom or similar app.

I was thoroughly reviewing Jpegs from different apps which were attached couple of pages ago on the MacBook screen. In details, It was all the same. Difference is only in jpeg compression level and white balance.

What I’m wondering, is this thing: proRAW is huge, meaning it contains all the processing history in layers, similar to photoshop files. Why it can’t be edited?
And, If there is no way to revert/edit that layers, why keep it at all? Is that some functionality what is turned off, or maybe, it’ll be available later when necessary tools will be added to the camera app? Apparently now Lightroom is just ignoring it

You can actually turn off Smart HDR (or what they call "Smartest Processing") for ProRAW on Halide. That works really well, then you can edit the ProRAW file in Darkroom or Lightroom without all the "smarts" applied to it.

 

[AlGardner]

You can actually turn off Smart HDR (or what they call "Smartest Processing") for ProRAW on Halide. That works really well, then you can edit the ProRAW file in Darkroom or Lightroom without all the "smarts" applied to it.

Seems to be that’ll turn off the deep fusion processing as well, what I do not want to.
Am I right about it? Because if so - all the apps able to shoot in “pure” raw files are capable of this as well

 

[ManuCH]

Seems to be that’ll turn off the deep fusion processing as well, what I do not want to.
Am I right about it? Because if so - all the apps able to shoot in “pure” raw files are capable of this as well

I actually don't think so, but I'm just judging this by looking at the pictures it takes. Try to write to their support email address, they will tell you for sure and they're pretty responsive.

They can also shoot "pure" RAW files (no ProRAW), and they look way worse (almost unusable to me honestly).

 

[Borjan]

Understanding ProRAW

We make the most popular RAW camera for iPhone, so when Apple revealed their new ProRAW image format, we were beyond excited. Then they announced it’s coming to the built-in camera app. Many developers in our shoes would freak out, thinking Apple wants to gobble up their customers. We

lux.camera

For further reading.

Pro-RAW is a great intermediate solution between full RAW and the processed HEIC/JPEGs.

 

[Bishope1999]

Yeah you bet. Like I said there are a lot of cinematic professionals out there that make a full length movies with this app because it’s that good. It does take some getting used to but you have full control over your shutter speed and aperture etc. frame rate and there are a lot of YouTube instruction videos / tutorials on this app as well

Thank you! I purchased it and I see how many features it has, this is great, I truly appreciate that.

I will be seeing Youtube videos on it to see everything it offers, and as I will have more free time in the weekend, I plan to go to town on the video recording on the iPhone 13 Pro Max.

Thanks for such helpful info! definitely worth the $15.



Another question as I don't know too much about the App stores, I remember seeing some Augmented Reality things that can be added to videos in the iPhone 7 promotional videos. I thought it was a feature in the camera app, but it's a separate app I have to buy. Are you familiar with any and ones that you would recommend?

 

[ToddH]

Thank you! I purchased it and I see how many features it has, this is great, I truly appreciate that.

I will be seeing Youtube videos on it to see everything it offers, and as I will have more free time in the weekend, I plan to go to town on the video recording on the iPhone 13 Pro Max.

Thanks for such helpful info! definitely worth the $15.



Another question as I don't know too much about the App stores, I remember seeing some Augmented Reality things that can be added to videos in the iPhone 7 promotional videos. I thought it was a feature in the camera app, but it's a separate app I have to buy. Are you familiar with any and ones that you would recommend?

I’m happy that you got FilmicPro! It’s great. As for the augmented apps, I can’t help you there. I haven’t researched or used any of that yet. Sorry…

 

[al0kz]

Thank you! I purchased it and I see how many features it has, this is great, I truly appreciate that.

I will be seeing Youtube videos on it to see everything it offers, and as I will have more free time in the weekend, I plan to go to town on the video recording on the iPhone 13 Pro Max.

Thanks for such helpful info! definitely worth the $15.



Another question as I don't know too much about the App stores, I remember seeing some Augmented Reality things that can be added to videos in the iPhone 7 promotional videos. I thought it was a feature in the camera app, but it's a separate app I have to buy. Are you familiar with any and ones that you would recommend?

I believe you may be referring to the Apple Clips app. Though I’m not 100% sure.

‎Clips

‎Clips is a free app for making fun videos to share with friends and family. With a few taps you can create vertical and horizontal videos with immersive camera effects, artistic filters, dynamic music, animated text, emoji, stickers, and more. Make quick videos • Record vertical and horizontal...

apps.apple.com

 

[ediks]

I might be in the minority here but I would never pixel peep and scrutinize a processed jpeg image from a miniature 12MP sensor (I don’t expect to gain much from it). The stock iphone camera represents “good enough” rather well for most people and it shows from all the reviews and user experience out there. For those of us that need more control, there are a plethora of third-party apps that handle what were looking for.

Only thing Apple really needs here to satisfy everyone is a “PRO” mode that lets us choose the lens we want to choose without any sort of AI processing. Dig it into the settings menu if you have to, just make it available.

its stil bugs me that a so called "Pro" iphone doesnt have a Pro Mode for camera

 

[ToddH]

I believe you may be referring to the Apple Clips app. Though I’m not 100% sure.

‎Clips

‎Clips is a free app for making fun videos to share with friends and family. With a few taps you can create vertical and horizontal videos with immersive camera effects, artistic filters, dynamic music, animated text, emoji, stickers, and more. Make quick videos • Record vertical and horizontal...

apps.apple.com

No it’s FilmicPro, a professional video app

 

[geneo]

Seems better!!!
Native vs Reeflex. Look car plates !

Looks to me to be just a matter of diiferent exposure.

 

[al0kz]

No it’s FilmicPro, a professional video app

I was referring to his question about the AR features.

 

[Bishope1999]

I believe you may be referring to the Apple Clips app. Though I’m not 100% sure.

‎Clips

‎Clips is a free app for making fun videos to share with friends and family. With a few taps you can create vertical and horizontal videos with immersive camera effects, artistic filters, dynamic music, animated text, emoji, stickers, and more. Make quick videos • Record vertical and horizontal...

apps.apple.com

I actually had not looked into that app, but I gave it a try and it has nice effects I can let the kids play around with. Reminds me of the camera effects the Galaxy S4 had.

I actually meant this one, because I remember seeing this is promotions for the iPhone 7 I believe. I found it though and the app is called "Monster Park - AR Dino World." I haven't downloaded it, but I don't believe it may be as good as I thought lol. I'll give it shot though.

 

[Bishope1999]

I’m happy that you got FilmicPro! It’s great. As for the augmented apps, I can’t help you there. I haven’t researched or used any of that yet. Sorry…

Yes I have been trying it, thanks a lot.

Oddly, it doesn't let me record in Dolby Vision in 4K 60fps. It will let me record in HLG, I guess the Dolby Vision Apple uses it's based on HLG HDR? but it limits it to 30fps..... Maybe there is a setting I missed or I have to change the modes. I can only record 4k 60fps in SDR, then I can increase increase bitrate and all.

Great for SDR video because I don't record everything in HDR, but just found it odd as the camera app does Dolby Vision in 4k/60

 

[darkheroz]

Reeflex app

 

[tedley]

Reeflex app

zoom in on the clouds. Very drastic HDR affect. They look oil painted. Even a good DSLR would require a tripod to get this shot right though.

 

[ToddH]

zoom in on the clouds. Very drastic HDR affect. They look oil painted. Even a good DSLR would require a tripod to get this shot right though.

That’s probably due to the JPEG compression and high ISO for the camera. Plus those clouds could’ve been moving swiftly which would also cause a little bit of distortion as well, probably a 1/15 second shutter. I’m sure that was with the 3x camera which has a slower focal ratio of F/2.8 and probably maxed out the ISO of the sensor. I have a similar shot of the moon with clouds but I took mine on ProRAW and ran it through Lightroom. Similar affect but mine doesn’t look as bad, mine was 2500 ISO.

 

[catean]

I really regret upgrading from XS, the photos are way worse than XS due to AI processing. Is the SE doing the same post processing and destroying photos ?

 

[Bishope1999]

Please give me your opinion of which pictures you like better or if it's something you don't notice.

I bought the iPhone 11 again because I don't like the image processing of the iPhone 13 Pro Max. I kept the 13 Pro Max because of how advanced the A15 is and the outstanding video recording.

Maybe some people prefer the processing of the iPhone 13 Pro Max, but I want to also have an iPhone with a much better point and shoot camera. I like tech, which is why I have these two phones, plus the GS21 Ultra and I will be adding the the GS22 Ultra, when it comes out, and adding it to my collection. Also keeping the GS21 Ultra

iPhone 11

iPhone 13 Pro Max

Here are two night times pictures between the iPhone 11 and the iPhone 13 Pro Max. I really wish Apple would change the processing on iOS 16.

iPhone 11

iPhone 13 Pro Max

 

[AlGardner]

bought the iPhone 11 again because I don't like the image processing of the iPhone 13 Pro Max.

Oh… I really want to avoid that. Carrying two phones with me?… ((
But you’ve got a point, actually…

Regarding your photos - this scenes are hard to compare
My main complaints are about messing with details on hairs, and fabric texture from the close to medium distance.

But the second photo missing details in the shadows. It is the way 13pro processing, which also annoys me.

Keep in mind that ultra wide and tele sensors are cheap and in poor and night lighting conditions produces garbage photos.
Also it affects the video, try to capture one in the room with couple of lamps on. Switch between ultra wide and wide (main) camera. Notice the difference just in one video.