Returned M1. Won’t Beta test this

[johnkree]

But still a device should not break under normal or heavy use. A lemon is always possible.

And most of them don’t because there are no widespread complaints about it. It’s the other way round, fewer machines are dying at arrival than the statistics would suggest.
look at how many you tubers are stress testing their machines to the limit and everything is alright. And we have one youtuber claiming his machine is dead while pressing the power button in an indistinguishable way.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

And most of them don’t because there are no widespread complaints about it. It’s the other way round, fewer machines are dying at arrival than the statistics would suggest.
look at how many you tubers are stress testing their machines to the limit and everything is alright. And we have one youtuber claiming his machine is dead while pressing the power button in an indistinguishable way.

Isn't that what I basically said? Read my original post and read what post I reacted to. You are reading something between my lines which is not there.

 

[bill-p]

Sorry man.

I have to laugh out loud literally if you're expending effort based on 4 machines.

I'm not expending effort to respond to every post that disagrees with me, but you seem to be expending effort to dismiss any fact that disagrees with you.

If you don't think this matters then... why keep responding to my posts? Just go and enjoy your computer.

 

[Pressure]

I'm not a sofa processor engineer, but... can you please point out a source saying the iPad can sustain 10W continuously?

I'm fairly certain Apple claims the MacBook Air M1 has a thermal envelope of 10W. So... I find it a bit hard to believe that my iPad Pro 11" is running a chip that has the same thermal capability as a MacBook Air.

Well, it throttles for sure if you hammer it with gaming for example but the PL1 of the A12X is 15W. It will throttle under sustained load but peak performance is adhering to that.

All iPads have had an TDP around that (10-15W).

 

[Vazor]

hmmm. Look around and google for failing M1... then go and google failing dell. Then go and search for failing *put brand name in*. There is no perfect world. You could get a failing everything, from car to hair dryer. If the m1 would have a general problem with failing machines then at least Reddit would be full of it, Linus Tech Tips would make videos laughing about it and all.
M1 buyers aren’t beta testers as this technology was beta tested by millions of iPad and iPhone users... don’t be silly.
The OS might have its flaws but I’m sure you are much safer buying a m1 than buying a new designed MacBook.

For some reason the same people that are saying they won't 'beta test' are the same people who say they are waiting for a redesigned MacBook. If you want the MacBook with the most issues, you buy the gen 1 of a redesign lol.

 

[johnkree]

For some reason the same people that are saying they won't 'beta test' are the same people who say they are waiting for a redesigned MacBook. If you want the MacBook with the most issues, you buy the gen 1 of a redesign lol.

Yea, someone stated something like this on page one. If we look at Apples design flaw history M1 Macbooks are much safer than the coming new design Macbooks (iPhone 4 antenna gate, the misarble failing keyboard, Macbook Pro dedicated graphic card failing,...).
What will probably happen to the Macbook Air? It will get thinner. And probably hotter. With a new display technology... Much more ways to fail than a tried and tested design, a tried and tested display and a CPU that has another name but is based on a chip that is used for a long time in iPhones and iPads.

 

[theluggage]

Really? Our UK law states we have something like 6 years protection but it also demands that we prove the device was defective from the start (or something close to that).

Actually, during the first six months, it is presumed defective unless the retailer can prove otherwise. The burden only shifts to you after that period. See: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

You may have to print out a copy of the Act on heavy paper and beat the retailer around the head with it to establish that, though.

(And note that your contract is with the retailer so if you didn't buy from Apple there's no point shouting at the Genius in the Apple Store).

Basically, in the UK, EU and other jurisdictions with decent consumer protections, extended warranties are a poor deal unless they offer benefits like on-site service or accidental damage cover - and even then, remember, never pay to insure what you can afford to fix (and/or check its not covered by your household insurance). At best, you're paying to cover your device for the three years when it is least likely to go wrong.

Bathtub curve - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Serban55]

Well, I don't want to jynx it but... the Air is fanless, and I think Apple is pushing the chip harder than it should be in some cases. It's allowed to reach 90+ Celsius before throttling.

Meanwhile, the MacBook Pro ramps up the fan as early as 45C, and it's practically on max speed at around 70C.

So it's pretty easy to see which one will "fry" easier. Yours is not the first report I've read, and I think we may start to see more of these when ambient temp reaches higher.

The 12” macbook was fanless also under intel cpu that allwed to reach 99-100C, and that had no issues except the obv butterfly keys
So, this is not the case, its clear an particularly issue and not a mainstream/design issue

 

[Vazor]

Yea, someone stated something like this on page one. If we look at Apples design flaw history M1 Macbooks are much safer than the coming new design Macbooks (iPhone 4 antenna gate, the misarble failing keyboard, Macbook Pro dedicated graphic card failing,...).
What will probably happen to the Macbook Air? It will get thinner. And probably hotter. With a new display technology... Much more ways to fail than a tried and tested design, a tried and tested display and a CPU that has another name but is based on a chip that is used for a long time in iPhones and iPads.

I 100% agree man. Even with the current design there were many issues which took years to resolve, for example the more unknown 'flexgate' issue got fixed with the 2018 designs.

 

[Squillace]

First of all, yeah it sucks. It's sad spending a lot of money on something and having it broken a few days later. So, I feel you.

Now about the rest of your post, boohoo! Give us a break! You DID beta test the product. You played the game, you lost. When you bought it, you knew it was the first of a kind. So you knew you would gonna be a beta tester. And in fact you did. Just because everything else is the same as the previous gen, it still has knew CPU tech. Maybe now Apple is rethinking stuff. Or maybe you just got a unit with flaws...

Ok, youtubers are pushing the machine at its limits and "selling" it like it's a beast capable of 32K rendering easy. Their fault on that. BUT... there's a reason why Apple launched two laptops at the same time, one called "Air" and the other called PRO. For two weeks I'm seeing people telling that there's no difference between the two except for the fan and the pricetag. But guess what: maybe, just MAYBE, one being called Air and the other being called Pro means that they are suited for different kind of workflow, right? Or maybe you just got a unit with flaws...

Again, I'm sorry your laptop got screwed.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

delete

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Sorry man.

I have to laugh out loud literally if you're expending effort based on 4 machines.

Not everyone that has an issue will share their story on Reddit.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

I'm not expending effort to respond to every post that disagrees with me, but you seem to be expending effort to dismiss any fact that disagrees with you.

If you don't think this matters then... why keep responding to my posts? Just go and enjoy your computer.

Because you haven't posted any facts. I'm a scientist so I want to see your claims backed-up with various datasets, not conjecture.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

Not everyone that has an issue will share their story on Reddit.

Agree. I never stated that they would. If you think that I have, please indicate where this occurred?

I simply stated that 4 internet stories without verification is not statistically different than 0 or the standard defective rate for consumer electronics.

 

[matrix07]

Sustained heat kills electonics. Intel and AMD have generations of heat/power testing / QA to fall back on. But the theme behinds Apples recent failures is obvious - too much too fast with too little testing. Not a good recipe for a new consumer CPU, and fanless as well.

Imho all Apple customers have become beta testers the last couple of years.

People edited 4K video on iPad Pro with similar performance for a couple of years now. This is not new.

 

[johnkree]

Not everyone that has an issue will share their story on Reddit.

Yea and I think we can agree on the fact that people with problems tend more to go to forums and Reddit than people whose system is running well...

 

[MacManTexas56]

My M1 air fried. Took it to Apple store and the tech told me it should work after a 10 min firmware upgrade. Came back saying it’s toast but no evidence or hardware issue after opening it up. The air worked perfect for days before this happened. I’ll wait for the redesign after all you guys test these devices for Apple. I’d be scared owning these things without Apple care. Back your projects up.

based on your pic alone, I can't take this seriously lol

 

[FilmIndustryGuy]

based on your pic alone, I can't take this seriously lol

What you trying to say? My muscles aren’t proportional?

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Meh. By the time they get to 3nm, people will complain the CPU is too cold. Can’t please everyone!

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Many of us are trying to export 10 bit videos with this thing.

Source; and why in the first place?

 

[MK500]

Only time will tell if this design is good, but here are a few points of comparison:
- My 2015 fanless 12" MacBook has run perfectly for almost 5 years now. It ran VASTLY hotter.
- This line of processors has been extensively used in iPhones and iPads that can get extremely hot in use.
- I've been throwing all manner of CPU/GPU intensive activities at my M1 Air now for 19 days and it rarely gets hot. I would mostly describe it as "warm". No comparison to my many other Mac and Windows laptops which all tend to get much hotter than the Air. And all have fans.

In my experience; the key to long term processor health is thermal mass, not fans. Thermal mass allows the processor to heat and cool slowly, and this is the key to extended life. Thermal mass + fan can give you even better results; but the mass is more critical than the fan. A great example is the 2018 Mac mini. It has TERRIBLE cooling. Not because it doesn't have enough fan, but because the thermal mass (heatsink) is just WAY too small for the wattage being dissipated. And sadly the awful placement of the memory sockets makes this situation impossible to fix without a really complex heat pipe arrangement. I've seriously considered re-casing my Mini and designing something like this from scratch because I've been so frustrated with it.

The M1 Air on the other hand has a quite substantial heatsink for the wattage. And it is coupled to a large aluminum mass (body of the laptop). It's a solid design.

I could go down a litany of popular products Apple has shipped over the last few years that really were "beta tests". From this tech veteran of 32 years, who has tested thousands of products for customers, everything about the M1 Air says "quality Apple design" to me.

That said, there will be a certain number of DOA or early failures in every product. That's what warranties are for. I know it really sucks when it happens to you. It's awful to buy a lemon and have to go through the replacement process. But when products are shipped in the millions, it's impossible to avoid this.

 

[Ethosik]

If the computer is not a lemon it should not break under normal or heavy use. Exceptions are always possible of course. Guess what, I had devices fail on me too. But I reacted to a post which said that info about the way of using it was pertinent.

I am confused by your statements. You are saying computers should be 100%? That is just not how things work in technology. I have had a Dell last a few weeks then the power supply fried while I was gaming. And it was a gaming computer.

This happens in technology. The GTX 980 is certainly designed to play games, yet I was not allowed to because it died basically right out of the box. A Western Digital Hard drive is designed to last more than one month, but I had to RMA one anyway because it died. Things happen, this is what it is in IT. There are always failure rates.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I am confused by your statements. You are saying computers should be 100%? That is just not how things work in technology. I have had a Dell last a few weeks then the power supply fried while I was gaming. And it was a gaming computer.

This happens in technology. The GTX 980 is certainly designed to play games, yet I was not allowed to because it died basically right out of the box. A Western Digital Hard drive is designed to last more than one month, but I had to RMA one anyway because it died. Things happen, this is what it is in IT. There are always failure rates.

No I did not say that. I was answering to a remark which implied that the way of using had something to do with the fail of the device. I was merely trying to say that a computer should not fail by the way how one uses it. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule (when a device is DOA or a lemon in the first place). But under normal circumstances that does not matter. So, don't be confused, I think you and I mean the same

 

[MBHockey]

all i hear from OP is 'Wahhhhhhhhh'. All electronics have the potential to be defective. Does not mean it's a widespread issue or a fundamental design flaw just because YOURS had a problem. Don't take it so personally.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

...the key to long term processor health is thermal mass, not fans. Thermal mass allows the processor to heat and cool slowly, and this is the key to extended life. Thermal mass + fan can give you even better results; but the mass is more critical than the fan. A great example is the 2018 Mac mini. It has TERRIBLE cooling. Not because it doesn't have enough fan, but because the thermal mass (heatsink) is just WAY too small for the wattage being dissipated... The M1 Air on the other hand has a quite substantial heatsink for the wattage. And it is coupled to a large aluminum mass (body of the laptop). It's a solid design.

Well-said ?

I wish more reviewers would highlight how the heat dissipation has actually changed with these new M1 Macs. That, the topic isn't nessecarily how hot the chip gets, but rather the manner in which the heat moves within the enclosure.

The M1 is built from 5nm process and a smaller package than the Intel chips they replace. Therefore, relative to the enclosure that they are contained in - which are the same sizes - there is more surface area for the heat to conduct on, which results in a larger thermal capacity.

As you highlight, the heatsinks on the M1 Macs are actually very generous and a direct contrast to the products that they replaced, where the thermal capacities were so low that the fans struggled to draw heat away from the chips quick enough, and that's what causes thermal throttling.