Phones Samsung Galaxy S20 / S20+ / S20 Ultra

[Healer Flame]

What I don't get is why Samsung tries to sell their phones at a super high price and then subsidizes it with "goodies" and other promos? Why not just cut the cheese and sell the phones cheaper where it's simple like Profit = Revenue - Cost? Undercutting other competitors is probably feasible still. If the regular S20 started at like $699? That would easily encourage many to go over that product than the iPhone 11 Pro at $1000.

This is smart question i like it but i disagree. Promotions, freebies and discounts will always be there to adjust and shape the fluctuation of the market as per given time and conditions.

A good example would be s20's poor sales due to Coronavirus, so heavy discounts and special promotions become handy to boost sales.

Samsung Galaxy S20 buyback scheme gets you half your money back

You could get up to $800 off if you trade in your Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G 512GB within two years.

www.cnet.com

 

[SteveJUAE]

What I don't get is why Samsung tries to sell their phones at a super high price and then subsidizes it with "goodies" and other promos? Why not just cut the cheese and sell the phones cheaper where it's simple like Profit = Revenue - Cost? Undercutting other competitors is probably feasible still. If the regular S20 started at like $699? That would easily encourage many to go over that product than the iPhone 11 Pro at $1000.

The perceived value for many, you may not be tempted and want $50 off but many others prefer to pay $50 more and get a bundled $150 headset or something

I am sure most buyers are far more aware of whats in the box than just the sticker price

With Samsung many get clear case, screen protector and some other bundled items $150 to $400 in value

With Apple these are all extras and the true cost of ownership is far higher

 

[oilers780]

They probably think the super high MSRP makes them look like a super elite device.

While I get that Samsung offers great phones, "super elite" seems like a vague phrase. To me, at least, a "super elite" phone should have years of software updates, no carrier bloatware, premium hardware, and plenty of features that lower tiered products may not necessarily have.

Basically, I just described a Pixel, OnePlus product, and iPhones. Samsung doesn't make the cut because of the carrier bloatware. But that's just an interpretation. For someone else, iPhones may not make the cut as a "super elite" device because they have notches or don't have enough software features like PiP or multi-window.
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This is smart question i like it but i disagree. Promotions, freebies and discounts will always be there to adjust and shape the fluctuation of the market as per given time and conditions.

A good example would be s20's poor sales due to Coronavirus, so heavy discounts and special promotions become handy to boost sales.

Samsung Galaxy S20 buyback scheme gets you half your money back

You could get up to $800 off if you trade in your Galaxy S20 Ultra 5G 512GB within two years.

www.cnet.com

Fair enough. But do those promos, freebies, and discounts cross too far into psychological pricing? "I got $600 for my iPhone XS" could be like that because it means that you're paying $400 to get the S20 base model, when in reality the product is slightly marked up? I think the best time to buy Samsung products, in a normal year, is June (for a S-series model) or around Black Friday time.

As for the coronavirus sales, everyone is struggling to get people to spend $ on wants or discretionary purchases. Anything they can do to entice people to buy more products will help them generate additional revenue. Plus, it means that their shrunken profit margins could net more Samsung Galaxy App Store purchasers and accessories buyers.
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The perceived value for many, you may not be tempted and want $50 off but many others prefer to pay $50 more and get a bundled $150 headset or something

I am sure most buyers are far more aware of whats in the box than just the sticker price

With Samsung many get clear case, screen protector and some other bundled items $150 to $400 in value

With Apple these are all extras and the true cost of ownership is far higher

When it comes towards those types of thing, it's all relative. Like for me, waiting till August to buy a MacBook with a free pair of Beats makes sense because I can flip them and use the item to subsidize the cost of a laptop purchase.

But when it comes towards something, like a phone? It depends on what items are bundled in there. A Google Play Store Credit for $100 to pre-order a Pixel 3a doesn't entice me because I don't normally shop for premium apps nor have the inclination to burn $ on apps for the sake of spending the gift card. A Best Buy gift card to pre-order a Pixel 3a in 2019 would make more sense because that's $ I could use to buy a couple of Xbox games.

 

[SteveJUAE]

While I get that Samsung offers great phones, "super elite" seems like a vague phrase. To me, at least, a "super elite" phone should have years of software updates, no carrier bloatware, premium hardware, and plenty of features that lower tiered products may not necessarily have.

Basically, I just described a Pixel, OnePlus product, and iPhones. Samsung doesn't make the cut because of the carrier bloatware. But that's just an interpretation. For someone else, iPhones may not make the cut as a "super elite" device because they have notches or don't have enough software features like PiP or multi-window.
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Fair enough. But do those promos, freebies, and discounts cross too far into psychological pricing? "I got $600 for my iPhone XS" could be like that because it means that you're paying $400 to get the S20 base model, when in reality the product is slightly marked up? I think the best time to buy Samsung products, in a normal year, is June (for a S-series model) or around Black Friday time.

As for the coronavirus sales, everyone is struggling to get people to spend $ on wants or discretionary purchases. Anything they can do to entice people to buy more products will help them generate additional revenue. Plus, it means that their shrunken profit margins could net more Samsung Galaxy App Store purchasers and accessories buyers.
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When it comes towards those types of thing, it's all relative. Like for me, waiting till August to buy a MacBook with a free pair of Beats makes sense because I can flip them and use the item to subsidize the cost of a laptop purchase.

But when it comes towards something, like a phone? It depends on what items are bundled in there. A Google Play Store Credit for $100 to pre-order a Pixel 3a doesn't entice me because I don't normally shop for premium apps nor have the inclination to burn $ on apps for the sake of spending the gift card. A Best Buy gift card to pre-order a Pixel 3a in 2019 would make more sense because that's $ I could use to buy a couple of Xbox games.

I think you need to remember Carrier Bloat is largely self inflicted thing in the US, you have a choice. Most do not have this

 

[oilers780]

I think you need to remember Carrier Bloat is largely self inflicted thing in the US, you have a choice. Most do not have this

It's also prevalent in Canada and other markets too. I think North America has to fix it. On a broader global scale, you're right a lot of folks don't deal with that stuff.

It's fair that the US has a ton of models available from a range of OEMs, so you can go with how you feel rather than have to buy a certain product because a Pixel or OnePlus is only available in the grey market.

Personally, I use an iPhone mainly because the ecosystem is what is so attractive. Samsung has way more features and is so much more robust, but a lot of their features aren't my cup of tea. I do like their hardware. The S20's OLED is so damn amazing.

 

[SteveJUAE]

It's also prevalent in Canada and other markets too. I think North America has to fix it. On a broader global scale, you're right a lot of folks don't deal with that stuff.

It's fair that the US has a ton of models available from a range of OEMs, so you can go with how you feel rather than have to buy a certain product because a Pixel or OnePlus is only available in the grey market.

Personally, I use an iPhone mainly because the ecosystem is what is so attractive. Samsung has way more features and is so much more robust, but a lot of their features aren't my cup of tea. I do like their hardware. The S20's OLED is so damn amazing.

The ECO card is too over played now and has become a point of trivia and a perceived level of entrapment where major purchases are swayed by accessories and media libraries.

 

[oilers780]

The ECO card is too over played now and has become a point of trivia and a perceived level of entrapment where major purchases are swayed by accessories and media libraries.

It might be overplayed, but people truly like it. I tried to mirror the ecosystem with the S10, didn't work so great between the Galaxy Watch Active, S10, and Surface Go. The app to use on the Go doesn't really match the level of messaging iMessage provides.

The Apple Watch is more robust than a Galaxy Watch Active too. Plus, Android Auto is quite buggy compared to CarPlay.

Ubuntu for Android was something I had hopes on years ago, but it was an abject failure.

 

[Brian Y]

What I don't get is why Samsung tries to sell their phones at a super high price and then subsidizes it with "goodies" and other promos? Why not just cut the cheese and sell the phones cheaper where it's simple like Profit = Revenue - Cost? Undercutting other competitors is probably feasible still. If the regular S20 started at like $699? That would easily encourage many to go over that product than the iPhone 11 Pro at $1000.

It's all about the idea of "Value" to the consumer while keeping cost down.

Say Samsung charges £999 for a phone, and give a free pair of headphones (worth £169). The consumer will do the maths in their head and think "Oh, so the phone is only costing me £830".

In reality, those headphones probably only cost Samsung £50 to produce, so in order to keep the same profit levels without the "promo", they'd have to sell the phone at £949, which looks, to most people, like a far lesser value.

 

[jamezr]

It's all about the idea of "Value" to the consumer while keeping cost down.

Say Samsung charges £999 for a phone, and give a free pair of headphones (worth £169). The consumer will do the maths in their head and think "Oh, so the phone is only costing me £830".

In reality, those headphones probably only cost Samsung £50 to produce, so in order to keep the same profit levels without the "promo", they'd have to sell the phone at £949, which looks, to most people, like a far lesser value.

But at the same time...If I buy a Samsung phone for $1000 and get $200 in free stuff....then are able to sell most of that free stuff...I am getting the phone at a reduced price no matter how you slice it.
Then it is an even better deal if the freebies were stuff you were going to buy anyway. Which is the situation with most people. So no matter what the actual cost to Samsung is for the free stuff...it is still a great deal for their customers.

 

[oilers780]

It's all about the idea of "Value" to the consumer while keeping cost down.

Say Samsung charges £999 for a phone, and give a free pair of headphones (worth £169). The consumer will do the maths in their head and think "Oh, so the phone is only costing me £830".

In reality, those headphones probably only cost Samsung £50 to produce, so in order to keep the same profit levels without the "promo", they'd have to sell the phone at £949, which looks, to most people, like a far lesser value.

Yep, it can be very psychologically driven. But at the same time, if they sold the product from $699 from the get go, I think they would be minting $ because it gets down to profit = revenue - cost.

The iPhone 11 probably sold really well, especially since Apple reduced the cost of their entry level product from $749 to $699. The 11 didn't bundle anything like air pods or free screen protectors, so price cuts will still get people to consider products a bit more.

 

[Awesomesince86]

But at the same time...If I buy a Samsung phone for $1000 and get $200 in free stuff....then are able to sell most of that free stuff...I am getting the phone at a reduced price no matter how you slice it.
Then it is an even better deal if the freebies were stuff you were going to buy anyway. Which is the situation with most people. So no matter what the actual cost to Samsung is for the free stuff...it is still a great deal for their customers.

It all comes down to if the freebie items are of value to you. For example, I pre-ordered the S20 plus because I needed new earbuds and because I saw they had an inflated trade-in value compared to whats on the re-sale market. Since I would've probably spent $150 on new earbuds, this is a direct $150 savings for me. That paired with the $200 I saved on the trade-in (bought a used s10 for less than $400, traded-in for $600), meant I got a toatl discount of roughly $350 on the S20 which makes it the same price as say the new OnePlus 8 Pro.

But thats not always the case. For example, the OP 8 Pro comes with not truly wireless earbuds (which only retail at like $50) and a wireless charger. I already have headphones and I already have a fast wireless charger. So I wouldn't look at those things as providing a $120 discount on the price because they dont have that value to me. For others, that might be different.

 

[jamezr]

It all comes down to if the freebie items are of value to you. For example, I pre-ordered the S20 plus because I needed new earbuds and because I saw they had an inflated trade-in value compared to whats on the re-sale market. Since I would've probably spent $150 on new earbuds, this is a direct $150 savings for me. That paired with the $200 I saved on the trade-in (bought a used s10 for less than $400, traded-in for $600), meant I got a toatl discount of roughly $350 on the S20 which makes it the same price as say the new OnePlus 8 Pro.

But thats not always the case. For example, the OP 8 Pro comes with not truly wireless earbuds (which only retail at like $50) and a wireless charger. I already have headphones and I already have a fast wireless charger. So I wouldn't look at those things as providing a $120 discount on the price because they dont have that value to me. For others, that might be different.

Great points...I forgot to add in the trade in values. I traded in a used S10 (i paid $350 for it) and received $600 from Samsung for the phone. So in essence i received $450 off for pre-ordering my S20 Ultra. Which I turned around and sold for $1250 and bought a S20 Plus ($900) because i liked the size more than the Ultra.

 

[SteveJUAE]

It might be overplayed, but people truly like it. I tried to mirror the ecosystem with the S10, didn't work so great between the Galaxy Watch Active, S10, and Surface Go. The app to use on the Go doesn't really match the level of messaging iMessage provides.

The Apple Watch is more robust than a Galaxy Watch Active too. Plus, Android Auto is quite buggy compared to CarPlay.

Ubuntu for Android was something I had hopes on years ago, but it was an abject failure.

Think you mixing things a little bit here Imessage vs Androids Whatsapp, Line etc is a long old story and not really to do with ECO and again something that is only useful in US/AUS as elsewhere its less popular

MS Phone companion has changed quite a lot recently including instant cut and paste, dialing notifications etc etc and control of your device and settings apps etc direct from your laptop

Not sure what you mean AW is more robust ?

 

[michael9891]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and we all like different things. But the whole "oh no, I can't leave the Apple ecosystem" just makes me think of people trapped in a room, surrounded by Apple devices. ? Plus it's a bit old now. In my opinion of course.

 

[oilers780]

Think you mixing things a little bit here Imessage vs Androids Whatsapp, Line etc is a long old story and not really to do with ECO and again something that is only useful in US/AUS as elsewhere its less popular

MS Phone companion has changed quite a lot recently including instant cut and paste, dialing notifications etc etc and control of your device and settings apps etc direct from your laptop

Not sure what you mean AW is more robust ?

A lot of people avoid What's App because it's a FB product now. Plus, you don't get support for stuff like Memoji or some of the other features iMessaging offers.

To use MS phone companion and stuff, one would want to go to the PC side of things, which I am not really too keen on doing. I prefer Macs since I have been using one for 5 yrs.

Apple Watches are more robust because they have a lot of apps, their processors are nice, there is a simple handoff between Apple devices, and the UI is pretty clean. Android Watches aren't there just yet. The Pixel Watch concept might happen with FitBit being a Google acquisition.

 

[SteveJUAE]

A lot of people avoid What's App because it's a FB product now. Plus, you don't get support for stuff like Memoji or some of the other features iMessaging offers.

To use MS phone companion and stuff, one would want to go to the PC side of things, which I am not really too keen on doing. I prefer Macs since I have been using one for 5 yrs.

Apple Watches are more robust because they have a lot of apps, their processors are nice, there is a simple handoff between Apple devices, and the UI is pretty clean. Android Watches aren't there just yet. The Pixel Watch concept might happen with FitBit being a Google acquisition.

Your doing it again and shifting goal posts

My reply is in reference to your failed:

Galaxy Watch Active, S10, and Surface Go

So you had a W10/Android system

Similarly Whatsapp and others popularity dwarf Imesseging which is a closed format and almost useless bar a few countries other than between friends. Even in the US its not in 1st place

I would not consider AW more robust for the reasons you note, its a nice device for some, cost considerably more for a disposable device, is a another closed shop device that requires an Iphone. Many prefer the level of customization others offer on a personal device, generally with better battery endurance. My wife actually asked me to remove apps as she, like many, do not want 10's of apps on such a small interface

You are forgetting some of the great features of the Samsung/MS ECO where its possible to have 3 or 4 of your phone apps displayed on your laptop in a floating window that can be interacted with along with all the basics you expect. You can interact directly with many aspects of your phone from your laptop.

The days when there was some advantages of Apple ECO have faded away to mostly trivia and or relies on compulsory purchases and all the strings attached with that and a closed OS

 

[Awesomesince86]

Deleted. Not worth it.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I would not consider AW more robust for the reasons you note, its a nice device for some, cost considerably more for a disposable device, is a another closed shop device that requires an Iphone. Many prefer the level of customization others offer on a personal device, generally with better battery endurance. My wife actually asked me to remove apps as she, like many, do not want 10's of apps on such a small interface

Yup, I have the AW5 and the Active 2.

I enjoy the Active 2 better. The main reasons are the round design, 3rd party watch faces, battery life, bezel input, and offline spotify.

The AW5 is better on paper due to app integration. But I rarely use any 3rd party apps on any smartwatch I've owned.

I been using Samsung watch off and on since the Galaxy Gear Neo, and Tizen has always been rock solid.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Yup, I have the AW5 and the Active 2.

I enjoy the Active 2 better. The main reasons are the round design, 3rd party watch faces, battery life, bezel input, and offline spotify.

The AW5 is better on paper due to app integration. But I rarely use any 3rd party apps on any smartwatch I've owned.

I been using Samsung watch off and on since the Galaxy Gear Neo, and Tizen has always been rock solid.

I had an early Gear curved bracelet type watch which was great as you could download local maps that actually worked in Thailand, but got bored

I did buy the relatively expensive TAG active not for specs but looks and level of rarity, but the charge pad for a $1600 toy drives me nuts as it uses 4 pins that get salt on them and needs cleaning often. But will buy the mechanical upgrade and gift it to my son.

I wanted to get my wife the AW LTE version just so she could enjoy her morning walk around KL park and not carry her phone, but we had no use otherwise for the Iphone you also need to buy, so we dismissed the idea.

I just got her the Active 2 LTE from Singapore and need to see if we can get the esim here in KL. But regardless she needed a little temp watch as her Brietling needs a cosmetic repair, but she is enjoying the step count, continuous heart rate and sleep tracking.

I got toy envy as I also got her the Z-Flip so I bought a Active 2 for fun as they are good value for the price and I like the notifications opposed to flipping open my fold when out. The all black SS version is pleasant and considering I paid more for the black version over the silver on my TAG than the total cost of the Active 2 LOL

Even if the LTE does not pan out I have DL her favorite songs and set up her free buds so she's happy especially as her step count is always higher than mine, that she likes to remind me daily

 

[oilers780]

Your doing it again and shifting goal posts

My reply is in reference to your failed:



So you had a W10/Android system

Similarly Whatsapp and others popularity dwarf Imesseging which is a closed format and almost useless bar a few countries other than between friends. Even in the US its not in 1st place

I would not consider AW more robust for the reasons you note, its a nice device for some, cost considerably more for a disposable device, is a another closed shop device that requires an Iphone. Many prefer the level of customization others offer on a personal device, generally with better battery endurance. My wife actually asked me to remove apps as she, like many, do not want 10's of apps on such a small interface

You are forgetting some of the great features of the Samsung/MS ECO where its possible to have 3 or 4 of your phone apps displayed on your laptop in a floating window that can be interacted with along with all the basics you expect. You can interact directly with many aspects of your phone from your laptop.

The days when there was some advantages of Apple ECO have faded away to mostly trivia and or relies on compulsory purchases and all the strings attached with that and a closed OS

My use case and another's use case could differ. I don't mind paying up for the products because I know I'll get great support out of them. I have no need for the customization Android provides. What good is the customization when you have less privacy? I rather have end to end encryption with iMessage than use Google's default messaging app or Samsung's messaging app.

I'll agree to disagree here. Whatever I feel about the ecosystem may not necessarily be what others feel. Maybe Samsung can get there one day, but that's currently impossible in its current state with fragmentation and how Apple controls nearly everything on their end.

 

[SteveJUAE]

My use case and another's use case could differ. I don't mind paying up for the products because I know I'll get great support out of them. I have no need for the customization Android provides. What good is the customization when you have less privacy? I rather have end to end encryption with iMessage than use Google's default messaging app or Samsung's messaging app.

I'll agree to disagree here. Whatever I feel about the ecosystem may not necessarily be what others feel. Maybe Samsung can get there one day, but that's currently impossible in its current state with fragmentation and how Apple controls nearly everything on their end.

There you go I was quite happy to agree and of course if your happy that good and if you perceive a better fit for your user case

But you are mixing it up again the default messaging you note re sms/mms is not end to end encryption even with iMessage when not sent to another iphone or any group where one member is not an Iphone user

Same as Icloud back-up of all messages is not encrypted

As too privacy, soon as you load/use any non native app your on the slippery slope on privacy, Apples policy and umbrella protection they promote is for their products and servers only and not the +1m other apps in the store

 

[BlueGoldAce]

This ° is very true. I am not making the claim that oilers is doing this, but it sounds like towing the marketing line.

The only way an iMessage conversation is fully end to end encrypted is if you turn on iMessages but turn off iCloud backup. Google it. Apple retains the keys to decrypt a backup, as a necessity for people who forget their password. The backup has the keys to the imessage encryption, thus its nit fully encrypted and apple has and does help authorities decrypt phone (again, google it).

-if you want true privacy the go With something like signal for secure messaging
-its very difficult to hide your data from third party trackers, and it’s hard to blame either OS. Look up the NYT article on where they were able to track the secret service, cia, etc vis their third party data...regardless of the os. Google harvest your data but it’s aggregates it and I have yet to hear of a breach or third party tracking via that’d data (You can limit what google collects, even block it as detailed below).
- Android actually has the leg up if you are willing to take the necessary steps. Install something like blokada and you have a more private phone than you can achieve in iOS, even more so than a vpn since the data doesn’t leave the phone.
- last time I checked, Android exploits have a higher bounty than iOS which is indicative of the os having become very secure. Short user initiative, like installing third party malicious apps outside the App Store, Android is highly secure.
- I haven’t looked into the recent version of Knox, but the pixel 4 line may be the most secure phone on the market. Google can’t bypass its encryption, and it has a physical security chip that will fully erase the backup (cloud and local) and phones content if its tampered with.

All that to say, despite the overall sentiment on this forum, iOS is not automatically more secure or more private....despite the marketing pitch.

 

[SteveJUAE]

This ° is very true. I am not making the claim that oilers is doing this, but it sounds like towing the marketing line.

The only way an iMessage conversation is fully end to end encrypted is if you turn on iMessages but turn off iCloud backup. Google it. Apple retains the keys to decrypt a backup, as a necessity for people who forget their password. The backup has the keys to the imessage encryption, thus its nit fully encrypted and apple has and does help authorities decrypt phone (again, google it).

-if you want true privacy the go With something like signal for secure messaging
-its very difficult to hide your data from third party trackers, and it’s hard to blame either OS. Look up the NYT article on where they were able to track the secret service, cia, etc vis their third party data...regardless of the os. Google harvest your data but it’s aggregates it and I have yet to hear of a breach or third party tracking via that’d data (You can limit what google collects, even block it as detailed below).
- Android actually has the leg up if you are willing to take the necessary steps. Install something like blokada and you have a more private phone than you can achieve in iOS, even more so than a vpn since the data doesn’t leave the phone.
- last time I checked, Android exploits have a higher bounty than iOS which is indicative of the os having become very secure. Short user initiative, like installing third party malicious apps outside the App Store, Android is highly secure.
- I haven’t looked into the recent version of Knox, but the pixel 4 line may be the most secure phone on the market. Google can’t bypass its encryption, and it has a physical security chip that will fully erase the backup (cloud and local) and phones content if its tampered with.

All that to say, despite the overall sentiment on this forum, iOS is not automatically more secure or more private....despite the marketing pitch.

I do not think @oilers780 is doing anything wrong or deliberate and has a fine device

I would go as far to say for the average user Iphones may leak at a slower rate, if that is worth anything

But I would say the way Apple promotes and conveniently misses out the small print leads many in to a false sense of security.

It's not like the old days of MacOS vs Windows re antivirus etc which is now shifted to malware for both OS

Making owners assume Iphones are inherently safe and not vulnerable is a disservice

 

[BlueGoldAce]

I do not think @oilers780 is doing anything wrong or deliberate and has a fine device

I would go as far to say for the average user Iphones may leak at a slower rate, if that is worth anything

But I would say the way Apple promotes and conveniently misses out the small print leads many in to a false sense of security.

It's not like the old days of MacOS vs Windows re antivirus etc which is now shifted to malware for both OS

Making owners assume Iphones are inherently safe and not vulnerable is a disservice

Of course and agreed. I meant my reply as a point or idea and not to be critical of another individual. My apologies if it came across that way.

 

[dontpinchme80]

Just bought my ultra tonight to test it out especially 5g+ connectivity