Phones Samsung Galaxy S8

[spriter]

I'm sure this will look very nice overall.

My thoughts:

Not a fan of the edge models personally. From a functional point of view they create more issues (unwanted touches and glare) than the visual benefits.

Build materials are hmmmm. Again the glass look is nice but the amount of cracked S6, S7 and Notes tells it's own story. Much prefer metal at the back. Protectors and cases are another issue but I suppose Samsung are going for visual appeal over everything.

Hopefully they can do something with the speaker akin to the iPhone 7.

The logo! I'd be looking towards an Asian model without that branding up front.

Software is TBC but I'm not getting my hopes up in terms of genuine optimisation and much more frequent updates.

After having the S6 and loving all but the battery, I found the S7 a bit underwhelming. Thinking the edge variant was a no brainer from promo shots I was immediately put off when I held it.

Let's see what the attack on bezels does for ergonomics and spurious touches.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Software is TBC but I'm not getting my hopes up in terms of genuine optimisation and much more frequent updates.

Judging from how fast and smooth Grace UI was, on the Note 7. I pretty sure an updated Grace UI and an extra 4GB of ram will keep users happy with the S8.

Updates??? I expect the same old story.

I do wonder how much Samsung will slim it's software down. Will they get rid of their duplicate apps? Will they get rid of their own multi-screen and just let us use Android's multi-screen? I hope so.

 

[MRU]

Judging from how fast and smooth Grace UI was, on the Note 7. I pretty sure an updated Grace UI and an extra 4GB of ram will keep users happy with the S8.

Updates??? I expect the same old story.

I do wonder how much Samsung will slim it's software down. Will they get rid of their duplicate apps? Will they get rid of their own multi-screen and just let us use Android's multi-screen? I hope so.

The problem is even slimmed down by removing duplicate apps, Samsung major bloat is under the hood. It's legacy services and redundancy that has been buried away for years upon years. It's why despite supposedly slimming touchwiz last few years if you look at system ram usage it has increased Year on Year.

Samsung essentially have always cleaned the surface but thrown more dust and rubbish under the carpet.

The way they seem to deal with this - rather than spring clean the whole OS from the ground up (and Grace UI is only a surface clean) is to throw more memory into their devices which whilst it helps and mitigates the issue somewhat, it still means that if you compare devices with like for like ram and cpu, the Samsung device is less able to retain as many applications in memory as the competitor.

6-8gb will at least mean that we should get more apps in memory in spite of the increase in system resource memory wise, and the super fast NAND storage keeps the devices running fast again in spite of the mountain of rubble buried beneath the carpet, but honestly I don't think Samsung will ever do a ground up spring clean.

So when people and bloggers say it's 'slimmed down' the reality is that we need to redefine 'slimming' down touchwiz really ....

 

[nviz22]

Rumored 8GB RAM is almost a sure thing.

The rumored Pro model with a stylus is a weird rumor. Cause it's said the Pro model would not be designed with a S-Pen holder. IMO, that kind of defeats the purpose. No way would I be carrying around a loose S-Pen. That alone makes me feel this rumor is not true.

But then again, if the Pro model does have a digitizer, then it would most likely have a S-Pen holder. It's slightly possible Samsung might do that. Then market the Note 8 with 4K display and something else. I highly doubt it, but there is a possibility since Samsung has to come back strong. Also, the S6 Plus was not the norm.

I think 6GB RAM is the more likely outcome. It's kinda a slap in the face to S7 owners to double their RAM count in one new iteration. Adding a GB or two is fine, but 4 extra? Too much imo. Well, 8gb helps with Touchwiz. I want 8 as well, but I don't see it happening.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I think 6GB RAM is the more likely outcome. It's kinda a slap in the face to S7 owners to double their RAM count in one new iteration. Adding a GB or two is fine, but 4 extra? Too much imo. Well, 8gb helps with Touchwiz. I want 8 as well, but I don't see it happening.

Consider, there is already a decent amount of overseas phones with 6gb, including one from Samsung. So I don't see 8GB as over the top. And since Samsung is rumored to implement the desktop environment thing(whatever it's called) on the S8, 8GB would only make sense.(even if 6GB is enough).

 

[epicrayban]

The problem is even slimmed down by removing duplicate apps, Samsung major bloat is under the hood. It's legacy services and redundancy that has been buried away for years upon years. It's why despite supposedly slimming touchwiz last few years if you look at system ram usage it has increased Year on Year.

Samsung essentially have always cleaned the surface but thrown more dust and rubbish under the carpet.

The way they seem to deal with this - rather than spring clean the whole OS from the ground up (and Grace UI is only a surface clean) is to throw more memory into their devices which whilst it helps and mitigates the issue somewhat, it still means that if you compare devices with like for like ram and cpu, the Samsung device is less able to retain as many applications in memory as the competitor.

6-8gb will at least mean that we should get more apps in memory in spite of the increase in system resource memory wise, and the super fast NAND storage keeps the devices running fast again in spite of the mountain of rubble buried beneath the carpet, but honestly I don't think Samsung will ever do a ground up spring clean.

So when people and bloggers say it's 'slimmed down' the reality is that we need to redefine 'slimming' down touchwiz really ....

If the end result is a software experience as fast, stable, and reliable as what stock Android achieves, then I'm game for whatever "slimming" they do.

 

[MRU]

If the end result is a software experience as fast, stable, and reliable as what stock Android achieves, then I'm game for whatever "slimming" they do.

Yeah I actually find if their fix is to throw hardware at it, then so be it. As long as the end experience is solid, that's the important thing.

But the assertion Samsung are slimming still is a bit of a fallacy. What they certainly have done though and should be acknowledged is made it a much more cohesive experience and one that feels more of a whole rather than as it was previously like a cluttered mixture of different design teams work.

 

[msavic]

Yeah I actually find if their fix is to throw hardware at it, then so be it. As long as the end experience is solid, that's the important thing.

But the assertion Samsung are slimming still is a bit of a fallacy. What they certainly have done though and should be acknowledged is made it a much more cohesive experience and one that feels more of a whole rather than as it was previously like a cluttered mixture of different design teams work.

But at that point you begin to question what could they do if they truly reworked TouchWiz from the ground up and also threw hardware at the problem. The speed of the device would be phenomenal and multitasking would be a breeze. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns, I feel we are already close to reaching that point in terms of app loading speeds. The newest smartphones are fast enough in that regard that shaving additional milliseconds is not going to impress or wow anyone that much.

I believe the true gains that can be made are in long term reliability/stability and multitasking. The 8GB ram should in theory solve the multitasking issues assuming the kernel is designed to take full advantage of that memory. There is a power cost to having such a large amount of memory so we shall see how Samsung deals with that. On the other hand, long term reliability and stability is something that can't be solved by throwing hardware at it, the software would need to be rewritten and optimized to ensure things don't slow down as time goes on. I have high hopes in this regard as we have seen a consistent trend of further optimization since the S6 all the way to the Note 7. Each consecutive device was more "consistently" fast than the previous.

 

[MRU]

But at that point you begin to question what could they do if they truly reworked TouchWiz from the ground up and also threw hardware at the problem. The speed of the device would be phenomenal and multitasking would be a breeze. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns, I feel we are already close to reaching that point in terms of app loading speeds. The newest smartphones are fast enough in that regard that shaving additional milliseconds is not going to impress or wow anyone that much.

I believe the true gains that can be made are in long term reliability/stability and multitasking. The 8GB ram should in theory solve the multitasking issues assuming the kernel is designed to take full advantage of that memory. There is a power cost to having such a large amount of memory so we shall see how Samsung deals with that. On the other hand, long term reliability and stability is something that can't be solved by throwing hardware at it, the software would need to be rewritten and optimized to ensure things don't slow down as time goes on. I have high hopes in this regard as we have seen a consistent trend of further optimization since the S6 all the way to the Note 7. Each consecutive device was more "consistently" fast than the previous.

Very true. Reports on Tizen which was built from ground up say it's very snappy even on low end hardware. So yep if they did rework TW it would fly, alas I think it will remain but a dream for us.

Also remember whilst each was proceeding fast, each was getting newer hardware which also effects performance, to test if TW is really being optimised as suggested we would need to see the newer generation software running on the previous / older gen hardware. That way any performance gains could only be attributed to software and not the newer faster hardware.

 

[Tsepz]

Judging from how fast and smooth Grace UI was, on the Note 7. I pretty sure an updated Grace UI and an extra 4GB of ram will keep users happy with the S8.

Updates??? I expect the same old story.

I do wonder how much Samsung will slim it's software down. Will they get rid of their duplicate apps? Will they get rid of their own multi-screen and just let us use Android's multi-screen? I hope so.

As the S7 is they got rid of most duplicate apps. I find it utterly ridiculous that I had to download the Samsung Video Player, Samsung Music Player.

People complain about duplicate apps but, Samsungs Music and Video player are far better, IMO, than Google's.

I will lose my mind if I have to be forced to use all of Google's apps, many of them are too minimalist, and lack a lot of customisations.


If people want Stock Google Android they must get a Pixel or a OnePlus, I hate how there is thing that all Androids must be stock, not all of us want to rely solely on Google's software. Samsung tend to put a lot of well though out options and customisations in their apps, it's part of the reason why I like TouchWiz.

My many issue with Samsung is they are so stuck on listening to American reviewers as they are so desperate to own that market that they pretty much bow to any and all things they say. You can't tell by the way they did TouchWiz in the recent Samsungs that they are trying get to please a small group of people who have a large reach. We've watched things like Removable Battery, Polycarbonate Build (that was actually VERY durable), IR Blaster, Gesture Sensor etc.... Go, just to please the reviewers and iPhone Fans.

 

[grkm3]

I've seen videos of the gs7 beating the Google pixel loading apps so not sure how much faster they can get grace ui

 

[MRU]

I've seen videos of the gs7 beating the Google pixel loading apps so not sure how much faster they can get grace ui

Loading is one thing, keeping them in memory is another

That's where further optimisation and ditching the clog will benefit users most.

However Samsung will likely just use the extra ram they are throwing in to do the job instead.



---

Seperate question. Where has Jamezr gone ? Haven't seen a post in ages ?

 

[Tig Bitties]

Latest news for S8 screen sizes;

- S8 5.7"
- S8 Plus 6.2"

 

[grkm3]

Loading is one thing, keeping them in memory is another

That's where further optimisation and ditching the clog will benefit users most.

However Samsung will likely just use the extra ram they are throwing in to do the job instead.



---

Seperate question. Where has Jamezr gone ? Haven't seen a post in ages ?

yes but keeping 10 apps in memory is a battery killer.im sure Samsung's engineering tested all that when building there kernel to optimize apps/battery Ballance.

you won't find a single Android phone lasting as long as the gs7 with its tiny 3000mah battery and that is all to do with how they tuned that kernel.

people don't load 15 apps in real life and cycle through them to see how long they stay in memory lol there newest kernels are good enough,they will keep at least 7 to 8 in memory.

 

[Oohara]

Latest news for S8 screen sizes;

- S8 5.7"
- S8 Plus 6.2"

tumescent
tjʊˈmɛs(ə)nt/
adjective

1. swollen or becoming swollen, especially as a response to sexual arousal.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

As the S7 is they got rid of most duplicate apps. I find it utterly ridiculous that I had to download the Samsung Video Player, Samsung Music Player.

That's something I actually like. Choice to have it installed or not is better.

People complain about duplicate apps but, Samsungs Music and Video player are far better, IMO, than Google's.

Yes, some of Samsung apps I do enjoy. Like their video app, video editor, Music Player(for local files), and etc.

But their email and messaging app is garbage. They also don't need their own multi-screen version any more. Some people complain about updates. But these are the type of things that might hold updates back, even if it's just a minor hiccup.

I will lose my mind if I have to be forced to use all of Google's apps, many of them are too minimalist, and lack a lot of customisations.

You're never forced to to use Google apps.
[doublepost=1484496960][/doublepost]

yes but keeping 10 apps in memory is a battery killer.im sure Samsung's engineering tested all that when building there kernel to optimize apps/battery Ballance.

you won't find a single Android phone lasting as long as the gs7 with its tiny 3000mah battery and that is all to do with how they tuned that kernel.

people don't load 15 apps in real life and cycle through them to see how long they stay in memory lol there newest kernels are good enough,they will keep at least 7 to 8 in memory.

I rarely keep several apps open on the iPhone. Just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Tsepz]

yes but keeping 10 apps in memory is a battery killer.im sure Samsung's engineering tested all that when building there kernel to optimize apps/battery Ballance.

you won't find a single Android phone lasting as long as the gs7 with its tiny 3000mah battery and that is all to do with how they tuned that kernel.

people don't load 15 apps in real life and cycle through them to see how long they stay in memory lol there newest kernels are good enough,they will keep at least 7 to 8 in memory.

This is a very good point.

Remember how the OnePlus 3 had a huge battery issue earlier last year, if I'm not mistaken it was due to it keeping a lot more apps in Memory and when OnePlus fixed it it kept less apps in Memory.

Samsung created Smart Manager for this very reason, you can pick and choose which apps stay in Memory and which can be closed to save power.

I never have an issue as I have set apps like Internet, SNote, WhatsApp, Tapatalk and some office apps to stay in memory, and they do so.

 

[Dave245]

I think Samsung know they have to do somthing in order to pull it back from the massive disaster of the Note 7!

 

[MRU]

yes but keeping 10 apps in memory is a battery killer.im sure Samsung's engineering tested all that when building there kernel to optimize apps/battery Ballance.

you won't find a single Android phone lasting as long as the gs7 with its tiny 3000mah battery and that is all to do with how they tuned that kernel.

people don't load 15 apps in real life and cycle through them to see how long they stay in memory lol there newest kernels are good enough,they will keep at least 7 to 8 in memory.

Actually the Pixel lasts longer for me with 5 hours SOT average compared to the 4-5 hours SOT that my S7 Exynos delivered and it has a 300maH smaller battery ....

Likewise it keeps more apps open ) backgrounded and it doesn't seem to impact it's battery life by comparison.

If we begin restricting devices to running only 6-8 apps to save battery, then WHY would they ever need to go to 6gb or 8gb. If the device is performing like a device with 3-4gb then the extra ram is redundant. That redundancy still comes at a cost to power efficiency because RAM has to be powered regardless of whether it's being utilised fully or only partially.

OnePlus 3 did restrict the amount of ram - however has subsequently fixed the issue allowing it to utilise more ram and it hasn't affected battery life dramatically for users. As long as the apps in the background are allowed to go to sleep / doze then there is nothing wrong having them open and ready at the press of a button.

Samsung's SMART cleaner was not developed to only manage ram, it was designed to clean up the detritus generally and much like HTC's Boost + app, it does this by cleaning the cache's that apps utilise and often do so rather aggressively. With apps like YouTube or Facebook often cache storing lots of data, these Utility apps free that up.

I do not understand folks on one hand wanting on their wish list for the S8 6-8gb ram, and then in the other stating they only open half a dozen apps or so and they like the OEM to aggressively manage them. Extra ram is simply not needed if you are happy being restricted to 6-10 apps. It's a redundancy.

 

[Tsepz]

Actually the Pixel lasts longer for me with 5 hours SOT average compared to the 4-5 hours SOT that my S7 Exynos delivered and it has a 300maH smaller battery ....

Likewise it keeps more apps open ) backgrounded and it doesn't seem to impact it's battery life by comparison.

If we begin restricting devices to running only 6-8 apps to save battery, then WHY would they ever need to go to 6gb or 8gb. If the device is performing like a device with 3-4gb then the extra ram is redundant. That redundancy still comes at a cost to power efficiency because RAM has to be powered regardless of whether it's being utilised fully or only partially.

OnePlus 3 did restrict the amount of ram - however has subsequently fixed the issue allowing it to utilise more ram and it hasn't affected battery life dramatically for users. As long as the apps in the background are allowed to go to sleep / doze then there is nothing wrong having them open and ready at the press of a button.

Samsung's SMART cleaner was not developed to only manage ram, it was designed to clean up the detritus generally and much like HTC's Boost + app, it does this by cleaning the cache's that apps utilise and often do so rather aggressively. With apps like YouTube or Facebook often cache storing lots of data, these Utility apps free that up.

Something we do have to take into account is that the S7 range actually have 3.5GB RAM. 500mb of the 4GB is dedicated to the GPU, this may explain why it's fast to launch the Camera.

So in actual fact, Samsung only really through in another 500mb of RAM since the Note 4.

 

[MRU]

Something we do have to take into account is that the S7 range actually have 3.5GB RAM. 500mb of it is dedicated to the GPU, this may explain why it's fast to launch the Camera.

That's the same though on all devices. Regardless of OEM. A part is always set aside. It's why you never see full amount in multitasking.

 

[Tsepz]

That's the same though on all devices. Regardless of OEM. A part is always set aside. It's why you never see full amount in multitasking.

I'm not sure if most OEMs have put that much RAM towards a single area, it's something that stuck out with some of the S7 range reviews I watched.

I could be wrong though.

 

[MRU]

I'm not sure if most OEMs have put that much RAM towards a single area, it's something that stuck out with some of the S7 range reviews I watched.

I could be wrong though.

HTC 10 had 3.6 available, Pixel has 3.7, Honor 8 had 3.5

So all within a range of 300-500mb give or take.

What is different is the amount of 'system' ram they use without launching any other app. The S7 was often above 2-2.5gb used without launching other apps. Compared to HTC 10 or Pixel which are around half that at 1- 1.25gb, that's a much more dramatic difference that doe affect the end usage more than the rather small differences in system reserved memory pool.

 

[Klyster]

Seperate question. Where has Jamezr gone ? Haven't seen a post in ages ?

Yeah, been wondering about that too, he seems to get suspended quite a bit but I've never seen why?

 

[MRU]

Yeah, been wondering about that too, he seems to get suspended quite a bit but I've never seen why?

Yeah just saw the suspended status.