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Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple

drjsway said:
1. Flyover in 3D is the most fun I've ever had in a maps app. I've used the new maps exclusively since iOS 6 release. Took me everywhere I had to go.

2. Everyone is acting like Forstall has been proven wrong about skeuomorphism. According to Cook, people love using their iOS devices. They've sold 100 million devices. Yet somehow, Forstall is still wrong? On what evidence? Because of techies complaining online?

There is a reason Jobs supported skeuomorphism. There's a reason why Apple devices are so easy to use. There's a reason why no other company can compete with Apple in intuitive interfaces.

While every other tech company is run by nerds. Jobs was that rare nerd who could think like a soccer mom. Soccer moms don't want to learn how to use a computer. Some don't even know what a computer is. But they know what a notebook is and if they see a picture of a notebook on the screen, they'll know what to do with it.

The majority of regular folks love skeuomorphism.

If you think Jobs was a smart guy and that he had good judgement in people, there must be a reason he liked Forstall so much. Maybe with Forstall gone, Apple will be run by nerds, just like all the other companies.

By the way, I don't use the word "nerd" to offend in anyway. It's just to differientate between the tech savvy and the mainstream. In order for Apple to continue creating big mainstream hits, they need to appeal to everyone.
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Thank you for that refreshingly wise post.

While I'm just guessing/hoping that Apple will be fine, there is no doubt that Forstall has made an important and valuable contribution to Apple. He has lead the iOS team for years, and that's no small piece of the pie. The iPhone is Apple's flagship product with more users than any other. While iOS may not be perfect, the software of Apple products (think Forstall's responsibility) is as much a differentiator from competing products as is the hardware of Apple products (think Ive's responsibility). Clearly, both have contributed positively and enormously to Apple's success.
 
iEnvy said:
Ok, I'm not going to chime in and pretend I know what the **** I'm talking about.

Can someone explain to me the ****-ups Scott Forstall had and why I'm just now realizing that 95% of MacRumors is celebrating his leave like America celebrated Osama's death?

I fail to see where all this hate is coming from.

Thanks
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There's nothing that's there except for the ****ed up uninformed media or fanatics who don't understand what skeuomorphism really means. Just because some specific person has a different sense of design, he must be fired for all he has done for Apple and NeXT in the last 25 years.

Let's not forget, he is the same guy who was involved in Aqua which we all loved and still love. He is the one who was so deeply involved with Mac OS X and iOS since their inception.

What a shame!
 
I'm going to assume this whole internal mess is what has been keeping the new iTunes from launching, and we will see the update for tomorrow? Yes?




.... Please?
 
GQB said:
They never existed. They're an invention of people who have no better ideas than to throw around terms like 'fanboi'.
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insult? Like I said earlier, my original post is a serious question. As I've read other poster's questions in the iOS section the past weeks, it seems they received nothing but backlash when asking questions about why iOS has seemed to stagnate. Now it seems like the release of Forstall might bring changes to iOS after all and there seems to be a celebration. Just an observation.
 
brendu said:
for some reason all I can think about when I hear Jony Ive will be heading the software now is this...

Image

NEEDS MORE ALUMINUM...

Am I the only one who actually likes the design of iCal and the skeuomorphism that Forstall brought? Oh well, I trust that these guys know what they are doing, but this isn't the same Apple we grew up with... I foresee big changes over the next few years.
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Nice image!

I dislike iCal. I believe it's the worst app Apple has. It's ridiculously difficult to see those fine and very faint lines with tiny numbers added to the awful color of the actual calendar itself. I also don't like the way it works overall.

They've had so long to get it right unlike maps and yet it still feels crappy.
Maps will be good. Fly over is great. and the directions are clear and easy to follow.

I'd love to see somebody else get ahold of iCal and do it properly.
 
drjsway said:
Soccer moms don't want to learn how to use a computer. Some don't even know what a computer is.
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You and all the other idiots regurgitating this crap need to get a ****ing clue, because it's completely, utterly insulting, as well as indicative of your complete refusal to open your eyes to the world around you. Are you blind?

My 55 year-old mother––who was a soccer mom 15 years ago––can operate a computer just fine. She can also operate a tablet just fine. And a PS3. And a Bose sound system. And a hybrid car. And a Kindle. And one of those crazy universal remotes that I refuse to even touch.

She can update all of those things, sync them, purchase apps, etc. Apple is not the only company whose products work for her.

Women are just stupid, amirite guys? /s

Stop thinking people are complete idiots. It's not the 90s anymore. Smartphones have been around for over a decade, and very soon will have been widely used by the general public for over 5 years. People who bought iPhones 3 years ago don't need dumbed down features in perpetuity. Apple needs to realize that people are learning to use these devices. They don't need to make them for children forever.

Times are changing and so are the people.
 
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brendu said:
for some reason all I can think about when I hear Jony Ive will be heading the software now is this...

Image

NEEDS MORE ALUMINUM...

Am I the only one who actually likes the design of iCal and the skeuomorphism that Forstall brought? Oh well, I trust that these guys know what they are doing, but this isn't the same Apple we grew up with... I foresee big changes over the next few years.
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No, you're not! Skeuomorphism is awesome. It may not be the only way to do something, but it's an effective way. The whole concept of a desktop on a computer is skeuomorphic, as is a trash can or recycle bin. Skeuomorphism lends to a product's intuitiveness. There may be other ways to do things equally effectively, but that's besides the point. In general people like seeing that pages turn in iBooks... This approach is not something to suddenly denigrate as if its only caused problems. I can see why Steve Jobs liked it. We can perhaps begin to leave it behind as these products begin to take on all encompassing identities of their own, but it seems stupid to remark negatively on anybody who has ever endorsed it.
 
SteveJobs2.0 said:
Skeumorphism receives too much criticism. There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach to design... it is the fact that iOS design is fragmented to such a degree that it is readily apparent that there are different creative current directing different sections/layers of the iOS.
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Skeumorphism isn't bad in itself. But seriously, who's thought that leather-stitching in apps was a good idea?
 
blucurv said:
That's why the piano in GarageBand works so well. Though Steve Jobs enjoyed the playfulness of skeumorphism, he also appreciated the importance of leaving things out if they weren't beneficial in the end.
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Right, but who's going to be pushing for that playfulness now? With Ive at the helm of both hardware and software design, he's got more power now than ever to pull away from such "Apple-isms" that we've come to know and love.


irmongoose
 
PlayRadioPlay said:
You and all the other idiots regurgitating this crap need to get a clue.

My 55 year-old mother––who was a soccer mom 15 years ago––can operate a computer just fine. She can also operate a tablet just fine. And a PS3. And a Bose sound system. And a hybrid car. And a Kindle. She can update all of those things, sync them, purchase apps, etc. Apple is not the only company whose products work for her.

Women are just stupid, amirite guys? /s
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Getting a clue might include considering the data on customers taking part in the one-to-one program at Apple, and finding out how they manage. You will find that most of them of the implicated age group and older. There are also more women than men. Does this mean they're stupid? Of course not. Everybody has to learn to drive. Its a matter of having experience, not a matter of being stupid. Its widely known that age is negatively correlated with one's ability to pick up a new gadget and master it quickly, especially if prior experience is controlled for.

To suggest that soccer moms are generally not tech nerds is probably accurate. I think its safe to say that the comment was clearly made with no ill-intent. Calm down!
 
Tis a sad day... I think

I honestly do believe, much like irmongoose (spelt wrong probably) this is a significant departure in Apple's core philosophy and that probably started last year (with two particular, obvious events.)

Everything I read suggest this event with Scott Forstall is driven by his personality traits that, as mentioned before, can be survived when it is the boss and not a colleague. Apple very much is a team, and at this point the team was probably fracturing as there was no one to hold the disparate parts together anymore. I really do believe he will be greatly missed for his influences and the passion he was focusing on Apple.

Regarding the aspects of skeuomorphism, computers in general are basically skeuomorphic from the ground up and the reality is for all you haters, you put up with it because in a lot of cases the alternatives would be useless. An example, let us get rid of that skeuomorphic touch-tone dial pad in the phone apps and say replace it with... a keyboard, that would be totally off the wall and pretty much anti-productive. The design choices are a means to make to things identifiable... recognizable... useable... whereas if you were just given a blank slate and told to go, what would you do... probably nothing since there are no cues to set you on the path. For that which is just visual trim, maybe the right choice is making different styles available or the like but in general the system work and 'just works' which is the ultimate goal.

I do look forward to seeing what Scott Forstall does int he future post Apple (unless some strange coincidence occurs and a reversal happens, but I doubt that as this was about the team and he was the old man out.)
 
I liked forestal.. I liked what he did for iOS Software.. iOS is a huge success and he is partly responsible for that.. I love Ive but I don't know what he can bring to the table as far as UI design.. But lets see... change isn't necessarily a bad thing...
 
Anybody notice the HUGE improvements to fly over in apple maps?? No longer does Pbiladelphia look like it was hit by an A-bomb. Good work Scott's former team.
 
dethmaShine said:
There's nothing that's there except for the ****ed up uninformed media or fanatics who don't understand what skeuomorphism really means.
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Seriously.

Skeuomorphism has been in both OSX and IOS since day one.

And I guarantee you'll see some of it in Ive's designs! It'll just mimic aluminum, metal and glass rather than leather and paper and tape, etc.
 
Too bad Apple Maps will not be up and running in time for Scott to use it to locate a new job.
 
I liked Scott a lot, or at least his keynote presentations. But I think this is a great move as iOS has been getting stale.
 
At one time his career at Apple must have had purpose. However, apparently at this point in time he wasn't needed. If he was he wouldn't be pushed out or resign.
 
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