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Also, a good-to-know, @ethanhodges , about Pacifist: we know of no version of Pacifist which will run within SL-PPC, but the workaround for this is to do the file extractions from an archive/dmg in Leopard before bringing those over to a SL-PPC setting.

Well, to be precise, Pacifist does run on 10A190, it just fails to do what it is supposed to.

P. S. In discussed case Pacifist may not be required, I guess, though I cannot verify that at the moment. While Xcode-related stuff is hidden inside pkgs, Airport-related stuff is accessible directly via file system browsing. From what I remember at least.
 
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I’m just curious, what version of QuickTime is used on this version of SL?
If it’s 10, is it possible to backport it to Leopard? Though, I assume it’s a beta version which may not offer any real advantage over QuickTime 7 on Leopard.

Also, is there anything else from this build of SL that can be used to improve Leopard? I’m thinking especially of ways to improve Sorbet Leopard (which is already awesome).
 
Hello everyone. Is someone able to make complete pre-installed DMG of 10A190(with all possible fixes) like Sorbet Leopard is done?

Well, I guess technically this won’t be hard, however the problem is that most of such fixes are not thoroughly tested (for obvious reasons) and may have unintended adverse effects (I remember that replacing some image rendering-related kext broke down Python for me). And no one wants to be responsible for breaking something for you :)

Ideally, we would need a comprehensive list of what works, what does not, what actually breaks stuff. This would require a coordinated work of several people, and more users to test implemented changes. Mind you, it is not a trivial thing.

Consider, that presently, from what it looks (I apologize if I am wrong here), we got 3 people who actively use SLPPC, test stuff with it and report with updates. Of three, one uses 10A96 build, which is substantially different in some respects (so you can’t just assume that same fixes are cross-applicable to 10A190).

P. S. Having said that, I would also prefer having an easy life with ready-to-go updated 10A190 DMG. But perhaps it is too early to make such, as of now.
 
I’m just curious, what version of QuickTime is used on this version of SL?
If it’s 10, is it possible to backport it to Leopard? Though, I assume it’s a beta version which may not offer any real advantage over QuickTime 7 on Leopard.

Also, is there anything else from this build of SL that can be used to improve Leopard? I’m thinking especially of ways to improve Sorbet Leopard (which is already awesome).

I believe, the Wiki-post has QT-relevant instructions. Out-of-the-box, QT just does not work in SLPPC. You need some manual fixes.
(At the same time, do you even need it? There is VLC, which is anyway newer, you can build ffmpeg5, you can build mplayer. I don’t recall having to use QT in recent years, whether on PPC or Intel. Even when it tries to open a file, it often fails to play it.)
 
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I believe, the Wiki-post has QT-relevant instructions. Out-of-the-box, QT just does not work in SLPPC. You need some manual fixes.
(At the same time, do you even need it? There is VLC, which is anyway newer, you can build ffmpeg5, you can build mplayer. I don’t recall having to use QT in recent years, whether on PPC or Intel. Even when it tries to open a file, it often fails to play it.)

I’ve outlined previously in the WikiPost how the version of QuickTime which works best in SL-PPC is a manual placement of all files from QuickTime for Leopard 7.7.0 installer. This version does two things which are very helpful for the SL-PPC setting, especially if you’re testing SL-PPC from any PPC Mac which doesn’t have a hardware-accelerated Quartz Extreme/Core Image support:

  1. QT 7.7.0 restores QuickLook functionality; and
  2. QT 7.7.0 improves video playback within QuickTime (which is, once more, really important in the absence of a system with hardware support for QE/CI (i.e., any AGP-based GPU from ATI or NVIDIA), as the absence of hardware GPU support makes using VLC for video playback impractical). Video recording with iSight FireWire is also possible, even on Macs without hardware support for the GPU.
But to make this happen, you’ll need to extract all the .pkg files from the QT 7.7.0 installer and manually move them into place from command line, setting correct ownership, and setting correct file permissions, before rebooting.

And since there’s some interrelationship between QT 7.7.0 and iTunes, you ought to also keep in mind how the latest version of iTunes known to work in the 10A96 environment is iTunes 10.4.1, whereas in 10A190, 10.6.3 is known to work. Likewise, a manual moving into place of these files will also be required.
 
I’ve outlined previously in the WikiPost how the version of QuickTime which works best in SL-PPC is a manual placement of all files from QuickTime for Leopard 7.7.0 installer. This version does two things which are very helpful for the SL-PPC setting, especially if you’re testing SL-PPC from any PPC Mac which doesn’t have a hardware-accelerated Quartz Extreme/Core Image support:

  1. QT 7.7.0 restores QuickLook functionality; and
  2. QT 7.7.0 improves video playback within QuickTime (which is, once more, really important in the absence of a system with hardware support for QE/CI (i.e., any AGP-based GPU from ATI or NVIDIA), as the absence of hardware GPU support makes using VLC for video playback impractical). Video recording with iSight FireWire is also possible, even on Macs without hardware support for the GPU.
But to make this happen, you’ll need to extract all the .pkg files from the QT 7.7.0 installer and manually move them into place from command line, setting correct ownership, and setting correct file permissions, before rebooting.

And since there’s some interrelationship between QT 7.7.0 and iTunes, you ought to also keep in mind how the latest version of iTunes known to work in the 10A96 environment is iTunes 10.4.1, whereas in 10A190, 10.6.3 is known to work. Likewise, a manual moving into place of these files will also be required.
I understand. I guess I was wondering if this version of SL could somehow help run newer versions of apps on Leopard. Ideally, I would love to see a working version of iTunes on Leopard. Though I have a feeling iTunes support in general is likely to go away with the Music App being Apple’s new focus.

FYI- I’m a complete lay person when it comes to this stuff. I enjoy reading through threads and seeing what you all can patch together!
 
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I understand. I guess I was wondering if this version of SL could somehow help run newer versions of apps on Leopard. Ideally, I would love to see a working version of iTunes on Leopard. Though I have a feeling iTunes support in general is likely to go away with the Music App being Apple’s new focus.

I use iTunes 10.6.3 with Leopard, and I also use iTunes 10.6.3 on all my G4 or later Macs (with exception to my SL-PPC mule running 10A96), up through High Sierra (which is the latest OS my Macs run presently). It works flawlessly across all of them for music, music video, and streaming audio (i.e., iTunes Radio) playback — though with High Sierra, it will gripe on first run how it’s not optimized for High Sierra (because it’s 32-bit, not 64-bit).

If, however, you mean using Apple’s cloud/member services in iTunes for buying/streaming music or TV shows from Apple, I don’t believe 10.6.3 is supported anymore, no matter the OS. This isn’t a service I ever used, so I have little experience with it.
 
If, however, you mean using Apple’s cloud/member services in iTunes for buying/streaming music or TV shows from Apple, I don’t believe 10.6.3 is supported anymore, no matter the OS. This isn’t a service I ever used, so I have little experience with it.

Yes, iTunes store is broken now, it does not work on Leopard, so won’t work on SL either.
 
Just a brief update on my vain attempts of getting bluetooth going on my iMac G5: after replacing the IOBluetooth.framework to 10A096 as well as 10A190, no new bluetooth devices are recognized. However, I observed an odd behavior. I was able to select my pre-paired speaker as when I click "Use headset" it switches the audio output and says the speaker is connected. However, it actually isn't.

Looking in the log I see a lot of messages related to blued.
Screen Shot 2022-06-13 at 10.16.52.png


I am away from the iMac G5 for a few days, but should I try different versions of the bluetooth daemon? I will also replace the IOBluetooth framework to 10.5.8 and hopefully re-enable the pairing of new devices.

P.S. On the original wikipost's list of bluetooth files/paths Contextual Menu Items is written as ContextualMenuItems and BluetoothAudioAgent is written as Bluetooth Audio Agent. Would it cause a problem to change this? It's not very important but confused me in the past. If it is not a problem I am happy to change that but I don't want to mess things up.

Thanks
 
P.S. On the original wikipost's list of bluetooth files/paths Contextual Menu Items is written as ContextualMenuItems and BluetoothAudioAgent is written as Bluetooth Audio Agent. Would it cause a problem to change this? It's not very important but confused me in the past. If it is not a problem I am happy to change that but I don't want to mess things up.

Thanks

I’ll have a look at it. Thanks.
 
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Just looking for the best performance

I guess you are not just after generating benchmarks, and then the question is: performance of/for what? On one hand, you may not really get much advantage with SLPPC (if any), and Leopard is, no doubt, more stable and polished. On the other hand, you may get an impression from some posts that SLPPC is nearly unusable, which will be far from reality. But IMO you need some solid reason to pick it over a conventional 10.5.8.
 
I guess you are not just after generating benchmarks, and then the question is: performance of/for what? On one hand, you may not really get much advantage with SLPPC (if any), and Leopard is, no doubt, more stable and polished. On the other hand, you may get an impression from some posts that SLPPC is nearly unusable, which will be far from reality. But IMO you need some solid reason to pick it over a conventional 10.5.8.

Following up here, what @barracuda156 wrote is probably the best answer for the question you asked, @ethanhodges .

How one uses their Mac is going to be as unique as the person using it, and this is no exception. In most cases for late PowerPC Macs, you’ll find the best general performance from OS X 10.5.8, coupled with tweaks mentioned in The Leopard Thread wiki.

The Clouded Leopard Project — or SL-PPC for shorthand — is and has been, from its inception, a test exploration for folks who haven’t been shy about tinkering with functions beneath the bonnet, to see just how far Apple went with PowerPC-aware development during the internal development of Snow Leopard.

What we’ve learnt from this project is Apple set out at its inception to prepare Snow Leopard as a Universal Binary, undoubtedly as an end of the road for PowerPC Macs, but one which would have provided company support for a bit longer than halting at Leopard. As new technologies were brought into the fold, particularly around GPU support architectures, Apple drew a line in the sand and changed course, realizing that continued PowerPC support (specifically, support for the AGP bus) would not be supported by the two major GPU vendors. This coincided with the GPU industry, working with Apple and other major tech companies, adopting a new language modality for new and future GPUs which would not work for most of the GPUs developed for AGP and earlier video buses. At present, we know PCIe-based video cards from NVIDIA, such as in the A1117 Power Mac G5s, are fully supported under this new paradigm/modality.

So in short, SL-PPC does work, quite well, all the above considered, and the community work from this project here has found multiple ways to backport stability from later releases of OS X — which in many cases means borrowing from updates to Leopard which came out after the SL-PPC builds (10A96 and 10A190) went out for external developer testing (such as 10.5.5, 10.5.6, 10.5.7, and 10.5.8 — with most backported fixes coming from 10.5.8, which was released to the public only a few days before Snow Leopard went on sale).

And yes, I have bench-tested Build 10A96 on my test mule, an A1138 PowerBook G4, and the SL-PPC 10A96 bench scores (984) are at or above what they were in 10.5.8 — which you’ll note that even my 10.5.8 scores (982) are moderately higher than what Everymac reports (843). But again, this is just simple, regimented, uncomplicated, standard bench tests. They don’t reflect how the computer is being used for everyday stuff in 2022, with stuff available to us in 2022.

I hope this helps to answer some of your questions. I also encourage you, if you’re really curious about running SL-PPC at home (and personally, I hope you are!), to read this thread’s entire WikiPost. It’s a lot, but it’s also written as concisely as possible and tries to cover all the major bases as well as possible.
 
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Following up here, what @barracuda156 wrote is probably the best answer for the question you asked, @ethanhodges .

How one uses their Mac is going to be as unique as the person using it, and this is no exception. In most cases for late PowerPC Macs, you’ll find the best general performance from OS X 10.5.8, coupled with tweaks mentioned in The Leopard Thread wiki.

The Clouded Leopard Project — or SL-PPC for shorthand — is and has, from its inception, a test exploration for folks who haven’t been shy about tinkering with functions beneath the bonnet, to see just how far Apple went with PowerPC-aware development during the internal development of Snow Leopard.

What we’ve learnt from this project is Apple set out at its inception to prepare Snow Leopard as a Universal Binary, undoubtedly as an end of the road for PowerPC Macs, but one which would have provided company support for a bit longer than halting at Leopard. As new technologies were brought into the fold, particularly around GPU support architectures, Apple drew a line in the sand and changed course, realizing that continued PowerPC support (specifically, support for the AGP bus) would not be supported by the two major GPU vendors. This coincided with the GPU industry, working with Apple and other major tech companies, adopting a new language modality for new and future GPUs which would not work for most of the GPUs developed for AGP and earlier video buses. At present, we know PCIe-based video cards from NVIDIA, such as in the A1117 Power Mac G5s, are fully supported under this new paradigm/modality.

So in short, SL-PPC does work, quite well, all the above considered, and the community work from this project here has found multiple ways to backport stability from later releases of OS X — which in many cases means borrowing from updates to Leopard which came out after the SL-PPC builds (10A96 and 10A190) went out for external developer testing (such as 10.5.5, 10.5.6, 10.5.7, and 10.5.8 — with most backported fixes coming from 10.5.8, which was released to the public only a few days before Snow Leopard went on sale).

And yes, I have bench-tested Build 10A96 on my test mule, an A1138 PowerBook G4, and the SL-PPC 10A96 bench scores (984) are at or above what they were in 10.5.8 — which you’ll note that even my 10.5.8 scores (982) are moderately higher than what Everymac reports (843). But again, this is just simple, regimented, uncomplicated, standard bench tests. They don’t reflect how the computer is being used for everyday stuff in 2022, with stuff available to us in 2022.

I hope this helps to answer some of your questions. I also encourage you, if you’re really curious about running SL-PPC at home (and personally, I hope you are!), to read this thread’s entire WikiPost. It’s a lot, but it’s also written as concisely as possible and tries to cover all the major bases as well as possible.
Thanks sooo much for explaining it to me. I am going to give SL-PPC a try when I get my iMac G4 this weekend. In the meantime I'll look through the thread and educate myself. This is a wonderful place to learn!
 
Thanks sooo much for explaining it to me. I am going to give SL-PPC a try when I get my iMac G4 this weekend. In the meantime I'll look through the thread and educate myself. This is a wonderful place to learn!

This is great to hear!

You’ll find there are not insignificant differences between Build 10A96 and Build 10A190 (which isn’t too surprising: there were over four months between the two releases, in a development cycle which took exactly 17 months).

If you’re interested in doing a lot of command-line work and building binaries from source, you will find better community support here for Build 10A190. For as-close-to-out-of-box stability for just everyday front end stuff, Build 10A96 is probably a better path to begin exploring.
 
Well, I guess technically this won’t be hard, however the problem is that most of such fixes are not thoroughly tested (for obvious reasons) and may have unintended adverse effects (I remember that replacing some image rendering-related kext broke down Python for me). And no one wants to be responsible for breaking something for you :)

Ideally, we would need a comprehensive list of what works, what does not, what actually breaks stuff. This would require a coordinated work of several people, and more users to test implemented changes. Mind you, it is not a trivial thing.

Consider, that presently, from what it looks (I apologize if I am wrong here), we got 3 people who actively use SLPPC, test stuff with it and report with updates. Of three, one uses 10A96 build, which is substantially different in some respects (so you can’t just assume that same fixes are cross-applicable to 10A190).

P. S. Having said that, I would also prefer having an easy life with ready-to-go updated 10A190 DMG. But perhaps it is too early to make such, as of now.
I have separate partition for it in my G4.(just plain system with a few mods)

So I would be happy to restore image with most possible fixes
 
If I create a new partition for SL could I delete/remove the old partition of Leopard?

I don’t particularly get what you mean. Of course, technically nothing stops you from doing that. If you mean to ask whether you can use SLPPC without an aid of 10.5.8 as a second OS, then it depends. For the most part that’s perfectly fine, but few specific tasks may be easier on 10.5.8.
 
I don’t particularly get what you mean. Of course, technically nothing stops you from doing that. If you mean to ask whether you can use SLPPC without an aid of 10.5.8 as a second OS, then it depends. For the most part that’s perfectly fine, but few specific tasks may be easier on 10.5.8.
Thanks that answered my question.
 
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