So M1 Max with 32 Core GPU matches RTX 3080 Mobile.

[sunny5]

I am not ignoring anything. Are you? Didn’t you want to show us a laptop with „way faster“ HBM2 than M1 Max 400GB/s. Aren’t you the guy who always demands proof? Well, I’m waiting. Show us some proof. I‘d happily accept that I dint know what I am talking about if you can point me to a sub-4kg laptop with 600+GB/s HBM2

You did, you still didnt answer my questions after all.

"But way slower than GDDR6 and HBM2e but we'll see since Apple Silicon uses TBGR and unified memory."

First of all, you ignored that I was talking about the entire GPU. 3090's bandwidth is way higher than that. Not only that, having a high bandwidth does NOT prove anything. This is over all performance to deal with.

 

[Serban55]

I am not ignoring anything. Are you? Didn’t you want to show us a laptop with „way faster“ HBM2 than M1 Max 400GB/s. Aren’t you the guy who always demands proof? Well, I’m waiting. Show us some proof. I‘d happily accept that I don‘t know what I am talking about if you can point me to a sub-4kg laptop with 600+GB/s HBM2

come on man, let him be..this device is not even in hour hand to see the specifics and how it performace and he already nows everything...im shocked that he didnt thrown the the Predator 21 X there...it is a laptop right ? ))))

 

[Serban55]

3090's bandwidth is way higher than that.

from 3080, now you are at 3090 ? why, whats your point here?
The bottom line here that this devices are mind blowing....you cant have this on windows side...especially in the 14" form factor..come on, stop ignoring the reality ..60W with that performance is unheard of

 

[leman]

Why do you say that? If you extrapolate results from the M1 on 3D games like Tom Raider, you expect the M1Max to match the mobile 3080.

The mobile 3080 is roughly 6 times faster in Wild Life Extreme than the M1. It also features significantly higher Fp32 throughput than M1 Max. It is possible that the massive bandwidth of M1 Max let’s is compete, but I’d wait for benchmarks before declaring the absolute winner.

But one thing is clear: this kind of performance is absolutely unprecedented on a laptop with this size and battery life. Apple has just redefined a mobile workstation. The x86 has no answer to this at all, and it will take them years to scramble for one.

 

[leman]

3090's bandwidth is way higher than that.

There is a laptop with a 3090?

Why are you moving goal posts? We are talking about laptops. Sure, 3090 is faster. It’s also heavier than the entire 16” MBP.

Again, show us a portable system that has significantly more bandwidth than M1 Max. Show us some proof to your claims, man.

Not only that, having a high bandwidth does NOT prove anything.

What, now bandwidth suddenly doesn’t matter? What about that “way faster” GDDR6 and HBM2 in laptops? Decide on what story you want to tell. Aren’t you the same guy who told me that I “don’t know what I am talking about?”

 

[Serban55]

But one thing is clear: this kind of performance is absolutely unprecedented on a laptop with this size and battery life. Apple has just redefined a mobile workstation. The x86 has no answer to this at all, and it will take them years to scramble for one.

The thing is that i dont know they can with x86 architecture ...they hit the top of the envelope
If they want more power, they need to go up in W and thermal envelope
And again, that M1 max in the 14" enclosure ?! there is nothing out there, and never it will

 

[EntropyQ3]

x86 isn’t that far away from the new Mac processors IF they go the path of the PS5/XBOXsx chips adapted for lower power draw.
For whatever reason (profit maximization across the industry ) this hasn’t happened, and may never. Apple isn’t competing in that eco-system after all.
However, I do think that these new processors make a strong case for that kind of system design. It may well happen a couple of years down the line. Nvidia, it should be noted, will then be in a tricky position lacking an x86 license, but they have other strong sources of revenue.

 

[Serban55]

Just a reference

 

[Serban55]

x86 isn’t that far away from the new Mac processors IF they go the path of the PS5/XBOXsx chips adapted for lower power draw.
For whatever reason (profit maximization across the industry ) this hasn’t happened, and may never. Apple isn’t competing in that eco-system after all.
However, I do think that these new processors make a strong case for that kind of system design. It may well happen a couple of years down the line. Nvidia, it should be noted, will then be in a tricky position lacking an x86 license, but they have other strong sources of revenue.

Agree...but Intel cannot afford to lose the server segment too...if amd comes with arm SoC that are top notch for servers industry...Intel will be caught open..so, both Intel and amd i think are already working on this kind of architecture...and lets not forget...in 8 years from now...even consoles PS/Xbox will be arm

 

[EntropyQ3]

Agree...but Intel cannot afford to lose the server segment too...if amd comes with arm SoC that are top notch for servers industry...Intel will be caught open..so, both Intel and amd i think are already working on this kind of architecture...and lets not forget...in 8 years from now...even consoles PS/Xbox will be arm

I think this veers a bit off topic, but servers are currently 95+% x86 and it's a difficult proposition to sink billions into cutting edge server ARM designs and software costs when the ISA may be bought and controlled by a competitor in the same landscape (Nvidia). It's a bit of a nightmare scenario, really.

AMD can make x86 server solutions, and is probably better off promoting that for the foreseeable future. Once the crystal balls show a clearer vision of the future, that may change.

 

[leman]

x86 isn’t that far away from the new Mac processors IF they go the path of the PS5/XBOXsx chips adapted for lower power draw.
For whatever reason (profit maximization across the industry ) this hasn’t happened, and may never. Apple isn’t competing in that eco-system after all.

It will not happen any time soon because this is not how PC market works. Actually, Intel and AMD did release a hybrid product that goes in this direction (Kaby Lake + Vega M GL), but to go further you need to have very tight integration. AMD can pull it off since they have all the components: CPU,GPU, fabric and the cache, but these products would be expensive and PC lives from low prices and mixing and matching components. And if you want to mix and match components you can forget about the kind of tight integration.

However, I do think that these new processors make a strong case for that kind of system design.

This system design is inevitable if you want this level of strong performance.

 

[gigapocket1]

Man, can u imagine the true desktop chips that’s going to come out next. With the real iMac, iMac Pro, & Mac Pro. The 100 core M processor may just be a real thing. More so. I really want to see these chips really unleashed in a desktop where TDP and power and battery life doesn’t matter.

 

[iBug2]

r

Man, can u imagine the true desktop chips that’s going to come out next. With the real iMac, iMac Pro, & Mac Pro. The 100 core M processor may just be a real thing. More so. I really want to see these chips really unleashed in a desktop where TDP and power and battery life doesn’t matter.

I think the next big iMac will be called iMac Pro. The only iMac will be the 24" one.

 

[EntropyQ3]

This system design is inevitable if you want this level of strong performance.

At least if you want this level of performance within this power envelope. (Though that doesn't include the SSD that could easily hang off an m.2 connector)

That is the real revolution we are looking at here, IMHO. Not the performance per se, that can already be had and more on the PC side of the fence. Hell, Apple provide more in their Mac Pros right now! But it costs you a CPU+RAM+GPU power draw in excess of 500+W, in enclosures to match.

These SoCs is a rejection of that path, and demonstrates that you can come within spitting distance (,and where the dedicated accelerators can be leveraged, beyond) of that performance in a pretty svelte laptop that runs cool and by their claims silently for a whole day on battery power. That's huge.

I do believe this may elicit a response on the x86 side of the fence, and chips like the console processors and AMDs Van Gogh are examples where they have already built systems along these lines. It's a relatively small step to transplant the concept into "regular" computers. But even if they do, the sheer scale of the M1 Pro chips would be a stretch. The larger of the console chips (in the XBsx) has 15+ billion transistors. The M1 Pro Max is 3.5 times that.

 

[altaic]

.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Just a reference View attachment 1870862

Less weight means less cost too. Much less weight means much less cost. Which means in the portable area, Apple will make a heap on these machines. Even the 14 will be highly profitable.

The challenge though might be balancing demand with supply constraints, and not burning new entry buyers. I wonder too about the robustness of any new casing design.

They do make a lot of chips already, so perhaps, the supply constraints on these chips will not be so major? Currently there are supply constraints on GPUs for X86.

With such a commitment two vertical integration, I now think that Steve Job's ethos has been chucked right out now by Tim Cook. It's the industrial engineer in charge of the whole operation ... Henry Ford would be proud.

 

[quarkysg]

I think the next big iMac will be called iMac Pro. The only iMac will be the 24" one.

I would think that the iMac will just be called the iMac, but with the 30" (if rumours proved to be correct). It will likely have similar performance to the AS Mac Pro, but of course with the Mac Pro having another step up in performance for it's GPU. CPU wise it should be on parity with the AS Mac Pro.

I do not think there will be another Mac focused event this year.

Early next year we will see the base M1 Macs getting the M2, and by WWDC, Mac Pro and the bigger iMac and the Intel Mac Mini (and probably M1 Pro/Max) will join the AS family with M2 Pro, M2 Max and M2 Max Extreme.

And Apple finally complete their 3 classes of AS Macs (i.e. good, better, best).

One can hope

 

[altaic]

x86 isn’t that far away from the new Mac processors IF they go the path of the PS5/XBOXsx chips adapted for lower power draw.
For whatever reason (profit maximization across the industry ) this hasn’t happened, and may never. Apple isn’t competing in that eco-system after all.
However, I do think that these new processors make a strong case for that kind of system design. It may well happen a couple of years down the line. Nvidia, it should be noted, will then be in a tricky position lacking an x86 license, but they have other strong sources of revenue.

Let's hope Nvidia isn't allowed to acquire ARM. I really don't need (more) endless news about BS lawsuits pathetically eroding reality.

 

[Serban55]

I think this veers a bit off topic, but servers are currently 95+% x86 and it's a difficult proposition to sink billions into cutting edge server ARM designs and software costs when the ISA may be bought and controlled by a competitor in the same landscape (Nvidia). It's a bit of a nightmare scenario, really.

AMD can make x86 server solutions, and is probably better off promoting that for the foreseeable future. Once the crystal balls show a clearer vision of the future, that may change.

UK wants to be full arm by the end of 2030(cant legally go further in details on that)...because of the cost of everything that "heat"produce...for them to replace all servers means they are saving going arm (just from electricity bill and water needed for cooling, maintenance ) millions of pounds/months

 

[altaic]

UK wants to be full arm by the end of 2030(cant legally go further in details on that)...because of the cost of everything that "heat"produce...for them to replace all servers means they are saving going arm (just from electricity bill and water needed for cooling, maintenance ) millions of pounds/months

Um, there are so many thermodynamic opportunities. If you're actually hooked into the UK government (or other UK entities), point them toward the YT channel "Just Have a Think" for a brief and opportunistic... think.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40 Series Laptops

The world’s fastest laptops for gamers and creators.

www.nvidia.com

That's not an official name. The official name of it is Geforce RTX 3080 LAPTOP GPU. They never put Mobile in their GPU. It's just better to identify based on mobile and desktop.

Quite literally nobody on the planet knew that. Now tell me what’s easier as everyone understands as the 20xx series and everyone before used the M acronym.

GeForce RTX 3080 laptop GPU
GeForce RTX 3080

Or rtx 3080
Rtx3080m

 

[diamond.g]

Quite literally nobody on the planet knew that. Now tell me what’s easier as everyone understands as the 20xx series and everyone before used the M acronym.

GeForce RTX 3080 laptop GPU
GeForce RTX 3080

Or rtx 3080
Rtx3080m

It is worse. The 3080 laptop gpu is actually a 3070ti without GDDR6X.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

It is worse. The 3080 laptop gpu is actually a 3070ti without GDDR6X.

Are you sure?
saw that the M1 pro was equal to the 3050ti
And the M1 max was almost equivalent to 3080m with 100w less

 

[diamond.g]

Are you sure?
saw that the M1 pro was equal to the 3050ti
And the M1 max was almost equivalent to 3080m with 100w less

No I meant the product naming is even more convoluted than people know. the laptop 3080 is really a desktop 3070ti sans GDDR6X.

So one could say that Apples SoC could rival a desktop 3070ti in rasterization performance (ignoring dlss or ray tracing).

 

[Sophisticatednut]

No I meant the product naming is even more convoluted than people know. the laptop 3080 is really a desktop 3070ti sans GDDR6X.

So one could say that Apples SoC could rival a desktop 3070ti in rasterization performance (ignoring dlss or ray tracing).

well that mind blocking and literaly industry kiiler with only 60w envelope... thats less power than the 305Ti mobile uses with a CPU attached.
In a laptop nontheless. and using LPDDR5 memmory.