I have a feeling you’re going to need to explain yourself to some of the less experienced
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Hugh
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Sorbet Leopard - Your Power Mac Unleashed
- Thread starter z970
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Cheers
Hugh
Never. 10.5 last booted and worked (somewhat) on G3 hardware with 9A303, more fully with 9A241.
Hello, @z970 - Thank you for this great experience. I have revived m 21-year-old Titanium Powerbook G4 !
Question: Is there any way to undo the High Sierra theme or revert to one of the other themes?
It seems to be causing some issue with installs on some software, which thinks that I am actually running Sierra, so won't install.
Question: Is there any way to undo the High Sierra theme or revert to one of the other themes?
It seems to be causing some issue with installs on some software, which thinks that I am actually running Sierra, so won't install.
Can you post the contents of the following file here:
/System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist?@rbird01 Glad to hear it, sir.
In a nutshell, there is currently no method available to undo the High Sierra theme under Sorbet Leopard - in this case, restoring the system image again will be a necessary route of action if one wishes to revert back to the standard Leopard theme. However, both the Mountain Lion and iOS 7 supplemental theme can be reverted at any point in time, consequence-free.
That is very odd behavior. The internal system identifier should have remained at 10.5.8, meaning software shouldn't have any idea that it is running on a modified environment, as every other change from the theme is more or less purely cosmetic.
May I ask which installers in particular are presenting issue with the system?
In a nutshell, there is currently no method available to undo the High Sierra theme under Sorbet Leopard - in this case, restoring the system image again will be a necessary route of action if one wishes to revert back to the standard Leopard theme. However, both the Mountain Lion and iOS 7 supplemental theme can be reverted at any point in time, consequence-free.
That is very odd behavior. The internal system identifier should have remained at 10.5.8, meaning software shouldn't have any idea that it is running on a modified environment, as every other change from the theme is more or less purely cosmetic.
May I ask which installers in particular are presenting issue with the system?
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>ProductBuildVersion</key>
<string>9L31a</string>
<key>ProductCopyright</key>
<string>1983-2009 Apple Inc.</string>
<key>ProductName</key>
<string>Mac OS X</string>
<key>ProductUserVisibleVersion</key>
<string>10.5.9</string>
<key>ProductVersion</key>
<string>10.5.8</string>
</dict>
</plist>Thanks, very much for your response.
High Sierra -> Mountain Lion
Am I correct in understanding I can revert to the Mountain Lion theme after already installing the High Sierra theme?
Installer issue
I apologize, but I can't remember what app it was that caused what looked to be an incorrect understanding of OS version. It was an app that I had previously installed on my TiBook 10.5 system. The reinstall was fine, but when launching the app, there was an error message something like, "incompatible with this system architecture." I remember the word, "architecture."
Thanks again for all of your hard work on this project. It is really fascinating and quite fun for someone like me, who bought his first Apple Computer in 1979.
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@rbird01 Apologies for my phrasing; to clarify, if the Mountain Lion theme is applied to a fresh install of Sorbet Leopard (using the default Leopard UI), it can afterward be reversed back to said default Leopard UI, and the same goes for the iOS 7 theme. But once the High Sierra theme is applied to the same fresh install (using the same standard Leopard UI), it cannot be reversed to any other theme from then on. The High Sierra theme is in effect, a permanent change.
Architecture incompatibility errors in a PowerPC environment directly point to attempting to run an Intel-only binary instead of a Universal or PowerPC-native equivalent (or in other words, this issue has nothing to do with the OS). The app that you had previously installed was most likely an older version that at that point still retained compatibility with PowerPC systems, as opposed to the presumptively newer version of the app you more recently tried, which probably required an Intel system.
In the future, applications can be checked for which architecture they've been compiled for by either looking for a translucent cross sign over the application icon (meaning it's been compiled for a different architecture from the current system), or by right-clicking on the application icon, selecting "Get Info...", and then looking for a "(PowerPC)", "(Universal)", or "(Intel)" suffix within the "Type:" category.
You're very welcome, sir. I do these things for those of us who just want to experience some fresh fun and excitement surrounding our favorite machines ... and that's all there is to it.
Architecture incompatibility errors in a PowerPC environment directly point to attempting to run an Intel-only binary instead of a Universal or PowerPC-native equivalent (or in other words, this issue has nothing to do with the OS). The app that you had previously installed was most likely an older version that at that point still retained compatibility with PowerPC systems, as opposed to the presumptively newer version of the app you more recently tried, which probably required an Intel system.
In the future, applications can be checked for which architecture they've been compiled for by either looking for a translucent cross sign over the application icon (meaning it's been compiled for a different architecture from the current system), or by right-clicking on the application icon, selecting "Get Info...", and then looking for a "(PowerPC)", "(Universal)", or "(Intel)" suffix within the "Type:" category.
You're very welcome, sir. I do these things for those of us who just want to experience some fresh fun and excitement surrounding our favorite machines ... and that's all there is to it.
Do the tweaks manually: Install Onyx and turn off the GUI eyecandy and make the dock 2D, turn off iPv6 in network preferences, delete AudioIPC kext, use ShadowKiller, use a custom hosts file, install Secrets prefs pane to tweak GPU parameters (ymmv) and install WebKit and extra themes as desired.
Sorbet has a few extra options deactivated that in my tests make no difference and a nice Neofetch style feature.
Sorbet isn't different code - it's Leopard with tweaks, it will feel fresher than making the tweaks yourself because it's a freshly installed disk image with contiguous files.
@Dronecatcher I've perpetually been trying to stop myself from saying anything whenever I've seen you repeat this information all over the Web in the hopes of avoiding unnecessary conflict, but frankly, this is getting ridiculous.
1. In Sorbet, the "GUI eyecandy" / window shadow effect is left on by default, as is the 3D Dock. Although disabling both in standard 10.5.8 improves graphical performance, they don't bring the system any closer to the default environment or overall package offered in 10.5.9.
2. Disabling IPv6 is only one small performance-centered change out of the almost 60 changes total made in Sorbet, as is removing AudioIPCDriver.kext. Removing both factors from the system will not bring the default 10.5.8 thread count / process amount / memory usage down to the levels seen in Sorbet (as compared in FS #4).
3. The custom hosts file that ships with Sorbet is custom. It's been further modified for higher performance (and privacy) than what is provided by default from the MVPS site.
4. After months of constant research and experimentation, it was determined that enabling QuartzGL system-wide -- or even standalone in nearly all applications -- had negative effects on overall system performance, even on OpenGL 2.0 / Core Image-supported hardware. And I would also go so far as to say that in most cases, spreading the tip that enabling QuartzGL improves performance is most likely a placebo and probably borders on misinformation. Case in point, Apple configured some applications to leverage QuartzGL by default in 10.5.8, and disabling that integration reduced resource consumption and therefore improved performance in 10.5.9 in all but one application.
5. Installing WebKit from the source (in 10.5.8) does not also provide certain default preferences to improve performance, nor does it remove several frivolous plugins that Apple included by default which usually only serve to degrade performance. Nor do installing the extra themes from the source provide the additional desktop backgrounds, user pictures, or About This Mac modifications bundled with 10.5.9 that make for a vastly more authentic user experience to the OS being themed.
Sorbet Leopard does not exist purely to offer greater performance, it exists to offer a superior user experience all-around, and as previously mentioned, performance is only one segment of that. There are a great many other user-facing changes in 10.5.9 that have nothing to do with performance, such as shipping with @Wowfunhappy's fixed Weather Dashboard widget, including parts of the numerous libraries of 10.6.8, the expanded Desktop Pictures included by default, the massively more accessible Utility Scripts as opposed to vague Terminal commands, as well as shipping with newer Bash and ntpd versions, plus including full Magic Mouse support out-of-the-box, plus many other minor modifications that all together provide a superior user experience. Not to mention that reducing the number of active processes running at any given time also shrinks potential attack surface, improving system security.
I respect the fact that you are a tinkerer and wish to do things your own way (as many of us are, and do). And I can fully acknowledge that the fruits of this project are by no means for everyone. But when you condense everything that the final package does into just a handful of mere performance tweaks - and then constantly broadcast that to the world, I find that disrespectful to the hulking amount of effort I underwent for half a year (for free) in order to bring Sorbet to the public in the hopes that the lives of everyone else using a PowerPC machine two decades after they were released could be made vastly easier.
People aren't getting excited from empty hype, nor from just a handful of performance tweaks; they're getting excited because the product works and does what it says it will. Nor does it feel fresher because it is merely a freshly installed disk image, it feels fresher because it was specifically engineered to (by way of the points mentioned).
That is all I will say.
@Dinuccio Due to practical constraints, there are no plans at this time to offer Sorbet Leopard as an "upgrade" of sorts over vanilla Leopard.
However, this is such a common request, I will investigate if a hybrid can't eventually be struck between the two. So ... we'll see - perhaps we will have something similar in the future.
@Mercedes33 Soon.
1. In Sorbet, the "GUI eyecandy" / window shadow effect is left on by default, as is the 3D Dock. Although disabling both in standard 10.5.8 improves graphical performance, they don't bring the system any closer to the default environment or overall package offered in 10.5.9.
2. Disabling IPv6 is only one small performance-centered change out of the almost 60 changes total made in Sorbet, as is removing AudioIPCDriver.kext. Removing both factors from the system will not bring the default 10.5.8 thread count / process amount / memory usage down to the levels seen in Sorbet (as compared in FS #4).
3. The custom hosts file that ships with Sorbet is custom. It's been further modified for higher performance (and privacy) than what is provided by default from the MVPS site.
4. After months of constant research and experimentation, it was determined that enabling QuartzGL system-wide -- or even standalone in nearly all applications -- had negative effects on overall system performance, even on OpenGL 2.0 / Core Image-supported hardware. And I would also go so far as to say that in most cases, spreading the tip that enabling QuartzGL improves performance is most likely a placebo and probably borders on misinformation. Case in point, Apple configured some applications to leverage QuartzGL by default in 10.5.8, and disabling that integration reduced resource consumption and therefore improved performance in 10.5.9 in all but one application.
5. Installing WebKit from the source (in 10.5.8) does not also provide certain default preferences to improve performance, nor does it remove several frivolous plugins that Apple included by default which usually only serve to degrade performance. Nor do installing the extra themes from the source provide the additional desktop backgrounds, user pictures, or About This Mac modifications bundled with 10.5.9 that make for a vastly more authentic user experience to the OS being themed.
Sorbet Leopard does not exist purely to offer greater performance, it exists to offer a superior user experience all-around, and as previously mentioned, performance is only one segment of that. There are a great many other user-facing changes in 10.5.9 that have nothing to do with performance, such as shipping with @Wowfunhappy's fixed Weather Dashboard widget, including parts of the numerous libraries of 10.6.8, the expanded Desktop Pictures included by default, the massively more accessible Utility Scripts as opposed to vague Terminal commands, as well as shipping with newer Bash and ntpd versions, plus including full Magic Mouse support out-of-the-box, plus many other minor modifications that all together provide a superior user experience. Not to mention that reducing the number of active processes running at any given time also shrinks potential attack surface, improving system security.
I respect the fact that you are a tinkerer and wish to do things your own way (as many of us are, and do). And I can fully acknowledge that the fruits of this project are by no means for everyone. But when you condense everything that the final package does into just a handful of mere performance tweaks - and then constantly broadcast that to the world, I find that disrespectful to the hulking amount of effort I underwent for half a year (for free) in order to bring Sorbet to the public in the hopes that the lives of everyone else using a PowerPC machine two decades after they were released could be made vastly easier.
People aren't getting excited from empty hype, nor from just a handful of performance tweaks; they're getting excited because the product works and does what it says it will. Nor does it feel fresher because it is merely a freshly installed disk image, it feels fresher because it was specifically engineered to (by way of the points mentioned).
That is all I will say.
@Dinuccio Due to practical constraints, there are no plans at this time to offer Sorbet Leopard as an "upgrade" of sorts over vanilla Leopard.
However, this is such a common request, I will investigate if a hybrid can't eventually be struck between the two. So ... we'll see - perhaps we will have something similar in the future.
@Mercedes33 Soon.
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I'm sorry that's the impression I've given and I will desist from giving that advice from now on - however, as well you know, I have tested Sorbet against standard Leopard with the tweaks I've listed and there's no performance advantage - indeed, my self tweaked Leopard scored higher in Geekbench.
You're quite right, performance isn't everything and I make no claims about alternatives to those extras Sorbet supplies.
Also, I think you'll find the vast wealth of information, advice, workarounds, hacks, software and general goodwill that comes out of this forum has also been supplied free of charge too - you are not the exception.
You've done some amazing work! I've tried this on most of my machines that support it and it's working great, no issues at all
For anyone curious those machines are:
PowerBook 17" 1.5 GHz, PowerBook G4 17" 1.67 GHz SLSD, Power Mac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 12" iBook G4 1.33, 14" iBook 1.42, 12" PowerBook 1.33, Power Mac G4 MDD Dual 867
Will be trying it on my Graphite Power Mac G4s soon.
For anyone curious those machines are:
PowerBook 17" 1.5 GHz, PowerBook G4 17" 1.67 GHz SLSD, Power Mac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 12" iBook G4 1.33, 14" iBook 1.42, 12" PowerBook 1.33, Power Mac G4 MDD Dual 867
Will be trying it on my Graphite Power Mac G4s soon.
As mentioned before, Apple under Cook does not care anymore about Leopard, us or the PowerPC community as he has always been anti-PowerPC, though M1 is based on RISC and ARM which are distant cousins to PowerPC as they share the same RISC architecture. So, no.. Apple won't do a damn thing because they consider Leopard abandonware and us as abandonware too. But, he has no love towards retro computing. I don't even consider the PPC macs, except for G3 and early G4 machines retro computing, as they can go on the internet comfortably with some modifications. So much PowerPC hate by Apple. When Steve died, all went down hill. I am not sure if he hated PowerPC, maybe IBM at the time.
Any possibility in next revision, if any Monterey or Big Sur theme ? Even Catalina theme is nice.@rbird01 Apologies for my phrasing; to clarify, if the Mountain Lion theme is applied to a fresh install of Sorbet Leopard (using the default Leopard UI), it can afterward be reversed back to said default Leopard UI, and the same goes for the iOS 7 theme. But once the High Sierra theme is applied to the same fresh install (using the same standard Leopard UI), it cannot be reversed to any other theme from then on. The High Sierra theme is in effect, a permanent change.
Architecture incompatibility errors in a PowerPC environment directly point to attempting to run an Intel-only binary instead of a Universal or PowerPC-native equivalent (or in other words, this issue has nothing to do with the OS). The app that you had previously installed was most likely an older version that at that point still retained compatibility with PowerPC systems, as opposed to the presumptively newer version of the app you more recently tried, which probably required an Intel system.
In the future, applications can be checked for which architecture they've been compiled for by either looking for a translucent cross sign over the application icon (meaning it's been compiled for a different architecture from the current system), or by right-clicking on the application icon, selecting "Get Info...", and then looking for a "(PowerPC)", "(Universal)", or "(Intel)" suffix within the "Type:" category.
You're very welcome, sir. I do these things for those of us who just want to experience some fresh fun and excitement surrounding our favorite machines ... and that's all there is to it.
Webkit is useless now. It opens very few if any websites. Best to use interwebPPC.
It also works great on the 1ghz Titanium G4. The L3 helps also.You've done some amazing work! I've tried this on most of my machines that support it and it's working great, no issues at all
For anyone curious those machines are:
PowerBook 17" 1.5 GHz, PowerBook G4 17" 1.67 GHz SLSD, Power Mac G5 Dual 2 GHz, 12" iBook G4 1.33, 14" iBook 1.42, 12" PowerBook 1.33, Power Mac G4 MDD Dual 867
Will be trying it on my Graphite Power Mac G4s soon.
Thanks for answers.
I wonder if there's a list or a script to take all "snow leopard" ppc system files and put them back to leopard so to have best possible features implemented.
I own a special case macmini g4@1,5ghz (7450) and 64mb 9200 Ati/radeon card and with MorphOS it runs very well. Having dual boot I'd like to make it productive also under Leopard. I have also a Powermac Quad G5 with 8gb ram at pitstop due LCS damage.
As an old Amiga user I like a lot PowerPC architecture, now it's became "open".
So I hope in a next future will be presented a new low cost powerpc cpu and a new powerpc hardware (there's already a concrete plan to build a new powerpc laptop) to deal with.
I have fun in my spare time programming PowerPc in C/assembly under GCC compiler, I'm quite sure if Powerpc was developed further, it could be much better than any x86 or arm cpu.
I wonder if there's a list or a script to take all "snow leopard" ppc system files and put them back to leopard so to have best possible features implemented.
I own a special case macmini g4@1,5ghz (7450) and 64mb 9200 Ati/radeon card and with MorphOS it runs very well. Having dual boot I'd like to make it productive also under Leopard. I have also a Powermac Quad G5 with 8gb ram at pitstop due LCS damage.
As an old Amiga user I like a lot PowerPC architecture, now it's became "open".
So I hope in a next future will be presented a new low cost powerpc cpu and a new powerpc hardware (there's already a concrete plan to build a new powerpc laptop) to deal with.
I have fun in my spare time programming PowerPc in C/assembly under GCC compiler, I'm quite sure if Powerpc was developed further, it could be much better than any x86 or arm cpu.
No he is not, but nor did he ever claim to be.
Love your work z970. Sorbet Leopard is a stunning achievement.
Actually there is - https://aphotic.org/software/leopardrebirthremover/
I tried the theme several months ago and didn't like the look of Sierra and by googling a bit I found this.
@Macbookprodude Since Big Sur and up changed the appearance of the system elements in general, it would be very difficult to create a theme translating those differences to Leopard. Although the High Sierra theme does come with the Catalina and Mojave wallpapers, since 10.15 and 10.14 at that point still used the macOS UI introduced in 10.10.
@ scarlett7447 LeopardRebirth Remover was specifically designed for standard Leopard. It would replace certain components that have been performance-optimized in 10.5.9 with their more bloated 10.5.8 equivalents, which is why I said that there was no method to undo the theme for Sorbet Leopard.
@ scarlett7447 LeopardRebirth Remover was specifically designed for standard Leopard. It would replace certain components that have been performance-optimized in 10.5.9 with their more bloated 10.5.8 equivalents, which is why I said that there was no method to undo the theme for Sorbet Leopard.