Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
Yes, I agree, and thanks for digging down into these data results. It gives some hope that the reporting is somehow not accurate.

Mine stayed at 1% up to 31.1 then next time I looked 2% at 37.2 then flipped over to 3% at 48.7.
Ah here we can use something akin to how the orbit of a planet can be plotted with only three points. If the values do not line up than that points to something being wrong with the measurements.

31.1 at 1% (range 0.5% to 1.4999..%): ~6220 to ~2073; 62.2 to 20.73 for 1%
37.2 at 2% (range 1.5.% to 2.4999...%): ~2480 to ~1488; 25.8 to 14.88 for 1%
48.7 at 3% (range 2.5% to 3.4999..%): ~1987 to ~1391; 19.48 to 13.91 for 1%

So the drive in question has a warranted TWR somewhere between ~2073 and ~1987 with the 1% threashold between 20.73 and 19.48 TB given the margin of error we have.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
You say this repeatedly and are corrected repeatedly.
Ah the "There is more to SSD lifespan than the total number of bytes written." statement. As I said before and will again:

And yet that is what nearly all these posts are harping on SSD lifespan being too short are using. Either total number of bytes written is a primary determiner of SSD lifespan or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

As for this only being a Big Sur/M1 problem read SSD wear leveling count at 90% after 7 months Neither existed in 2014.

Back in April 7 I said this:

"Samsung isn't quoting any specific TB written values for how long it expects the EVO to last, although the drive comes with a 3 year warranty. Samsung doesn't explicitly expose total NAND writes in its SMART details but we do get a wear level indicator (SMART attribute 177). The wear level indicator starts at 100 and decreases linearly down to 1 from what I can tell. At 1 the drive will have exceeded all of its rated p/e cycles, but in reality the drive's total endurance can significantly exceed that value." - Samsung SSD 840 EVO Review: 120GB, 250GB, 500GB, 750GB & 1TB Models Tested

One of the other people talking about this also used a linear progression such as Is There A Problem?

Furthermore more there is Intel's Technical Advisory – TA 340062-001US
“Percentage Used” Life Indicator is Non-Linear at the Beginning of Intel® OptaneTM SSD DC P4800X/P4801X Usage

Logically the only reason Intel would have to point this out is if Percentage Used is normally linear.

An older version (2019-2020) of the 2021 webpage (posted a long time ago and called "old") said this:

In regards to the attribute named “Percentage Lifetime Used” (sometimes referred to as “Percent Lifetime Remaining”), this is simply a metric for how much wear life is left on your SSD. A solid state drive, like any flash memory-based storage device, has a limited amount of data which can be written to the memory blocks before they start to lose their reliability, and eventually go into read only mode. Your Crucial SSD will keep track of this life with SMART attribute 173, “Average Block Erase Count.” The Lifetime Used is a reflection of the block erase count in terms of a percentage. For example if your drive is rated for 3000 block erases and you have a total of 100, your Percentage Lifetime Used would be 100/3000, or 3-4%. For percent lifetime remaining we would simply take (3000-100)/3000 = 96-97%. These attributes are not a full picture of the health of a drive, but an expectation of how much usable life is left.

If the formula isn't linear then what is the formula?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: osplo

EuroChilli

macrumors 6502a
Apr 11, 2021
530
542
Belgium
Bruh, this thread is insane..

It is hey? I've only been very loosely following it. Here's why; I've got better things to do.

I bought a 2011 MBP in that same year, yet I had no idea the machine would last as long as it has. In the meantime, I just got on with using, and abusing it; extreme heat and dust, even some dropping. Granted, some of the same machines haven't lasted that long, but mine did, and it's still going.

If I had to have spent this much time analysing how long it might last I would have spent much less time actually using it.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
It is hey? I've only been very loosely following it. Here's why; I've got better things to do.

I bought a 2011 MBP in that same year, yet I had no idea the machine would last as long as it has. In the meantime, I just got on with using, and abusing it; extreme heat and dust, even some dropping. Granted, some of the same machines haven't lasted that long, but mine did, and it's still going.

If I had to have spent this much time analysing how long it might last I would have spent much less time actually using it.
LOL same here, my 2011 15" MPB was hammered professionally for over two years, passed around the family, daughter even used it as a gaming platform 😆 Came back to me as the SW image was a mess and barely booted.

Now cleaned up on 10.13 it's been never clean installed, 100% stock, yet it runs better than ever. That said the 2011 15" MBP does have genuine HW issues with the Radeon dGPU.

Got to be real; I've looked at my M1 MBP's SSD usage and for me it's a non issue. If writes to the SSD are piling up;
  1. Identify any aberrant applications
  2. Run Onyx
  3. reinstall the OS
  4. Hard reset the computer via IPSW
As yet not seen anyone try this...

The numbers are irrelevant the root cause is more the issue if writes to the SSD are observed to be excessive calculating the TBW wont resolve anything, evaluating the software will...

Q-6
 
Last edited:

IceStormNG

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2020
517
676
If the formula isn't linear then what is the formula?
It's about like this (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Lifetime left tells you about the wear of the cells. So lets assume you have a disk with 1000 P/E cycles NAND. That means, every cell of the NAND can be programmed and erased at least 1000 times. So, lifetime left is the percentage of available P/E cycles across all cells. So if all cells on average have 600P/E cycles left, this means that lifetime left indicator is at 60%. No matter how many TB have been written to the disk.

In TLC NAND, 1 cell stores 3 bits, QLC 4 bits.
I don't know what Apple uses for the M1, but lets use QLC as 4 is easier to calculate with for this example.

Now assume, you're writing 100GB (100,000,00 Bytes) of data. This means you're writing to at least 25,000,000 QLC cells.
This assumes the disk is brand new and has no data on it. For now it looks linear.
But:

If the disk gets more used over time, the controller uses something called Wear leveling. Certain cells are written to less often than others. So they get worn out faster. To prevent that, the controller will re-arange data while you write to wear out the disk more evenly. This causes additional writes. This is called write amplification.

1200px-Write_Amplification_on_SSD.svg.png

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification

So if you write 100GB to half full and well-used disk, wear leveling causes additional writes. So, lets assume the average write amplification for this 100GB write is 2. This means, this write would cause 50,000,000 cells to be written to. So it "wears out" twice as many cells as when the disk was new and fresh.

Also important to note: Writing can be done to pages, which are mutliple cells. Erasing can only be done to blocks, which are multiple pages. So this means, if you write data, a whole block needs to be read into the controller's RAM and modified in-memory. Then the whole block has to be erased and the whole modified block has to be re-written. This causes more writes than you actually wanted. Typically it's around 32 tp 128 pages per block. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_memories
If this is a erased block, which means all pages of that block are empty, then the page can be written without any of that above. But the fuller your SSD gets and the more you use it and modify files, the more this will happen. And causes more NAND writes than actual host writes.

The TBW is data written by the host (aka: your computer.). It's the data that was sent to the device. Not the data that was written to the NAND. Sending 100GB to the SSD can cause it to write (e.g.) 200GB in total as it has to re-arange data for wear leveling purpose or because you write smaller parts than can be erased.

If your disk is always 80% full, and you constantly write to the pther 20% free space, your Lifetime left will go down much quicker with less TBW than if you have 50% free and only write 20% of the disk. This way it has more free cells and doesn't need to shift data round that much.

So. TBW and Lifetime left do not correlate each other linearly. It's way more complex. And this is the reason why most SSDs have such "low" TBW ratings, even though the NANDs can do more. The manufacturer calculates with a worse case of write amplification as the TBW value is often used for warranty purpose.

As the controllers get better and better and more stuff like compression is used, write amplification can be reduced more and more. And therefore, SSDs last longer with more TBW, even though "lower quality" (means: rated for less P/E cycles) is used.

Write Amplification is not gone and will probably never go away. We don't know about the specs of apple's SSD controllers. They made their own since the T2 macs. And Apple isn't know for boasting tech specs for such things.
 

EuroChilli

macrumors 6502a
Apr 11, 2021
530
542
Belgium
LOL same here, my 2011 15" MPB was hammered professionally for over two years, passed around the family, daughter even used it as a gaming platform 😆 Came back to me as the SW image was a mess and barely booted.

Now cleaned up on 10.13 it's been never clean installed, 100% stock, yet it runs better than ever. That said the 2011 15" MBP does have genuine HW issues with the Radeon dGPU.

Got to be real; I've looked at my M1 MBP's SSD usage and for me it's a non issue. If writes to the SSD are piling up;
  1. Identify any aberrant applications
  2. Run Onyx
  3. reinstall the OS
  4. Hard reset the computer via IPSW
As yet not seen anyone do this...

The numbers are irrelevant the root cause is more the issue if writes to the SSD are observed to be excessive calculating the TBW wont resolve revaluating the SW applied will...

Q-6

I must admit, the one thing that does make me nervous about the M1 Air is not being able to replace the SSD nor the RAM if/when it fails, not even Apple themselves can. I replaced the drives myself in both our old MPB's just for more space, took 20 mins a piece. As it is right now, there is absolutely no telling just how long these new M1 SSD's will last. In the meantime...

My sister still has a 2013 MBP, the first one that came out with all SSD. I played with it a few weeks ago, running on Big Sur and the drive on APFS. It's a bit slow compared to an M1, but it still works, 8 years later. She's been using it for graphic design running various Adobe apps and her teenage son still uses it for video editing.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Maximara

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
I must admit, the one thing that does make me nervous about the M1 Air is not being able to replace the SSD nor the RAM if/when it fails, not even Apple themselves can. I replaced the drives myself in both our old MPB's just for more space, took 20 mins a piece. As it is right now, there is absolutely no telling just how long these new M1 SSD's will last. In the meantime...

My sister still has a 2013 MBP, the first one that came out with all SSD. I played with it a few weeks ago, running on Big Sur and the drive on APFS. It's a bit slow compared to an M1, but it still works, 8 years later.

Our approach was to get 16 GB of RAM to be safe. For my own laptop, I'd like 24 or 32 GB of RAM as I usually leave a lot of stuff running on my laptops. I monitor RAM and SWAP usage all the time on my M1 mini and try to keep SWAP under 100 MB. I had thought about buying another M1 mini 16 and just splitting my programs between the two systems (I have two monitors). If I knew that the M1X was coming out after Spring 2022, I'd go that route and just skip getting the M1X.
 

EuroChilli

macrumors 6502a
Apr 11, 2021
530
542
Belgium
Our approach was to get 16 GB of RAM to be safe. For my own laptop, I'd like 24 or 32 GB of RAM as I usually leave a lot of stuff running on my laptops. I monitor RAM and SWAP usage all the time on my M1 mini and try to keep SWAP under 100 MB. I had thought about buying another M1 mini 16 and just splitting my programs between the two systems (I have two monitors). If I knew that the M1X was coming out after Spring 2022, I'd go that route and just skip getting the M1X.

I can fully appreciate how this could be an issue for bona fide pro's, but for the slightly above average user like me, I can't easily justify the extra €320 a 16GB RAM machine would cost, just to maybe avoid excessive swaps, maybe at a later stage. Right now, based on our current usage, we are as happy as pigs in....with these M1 Airs with only 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD's. If/when it looks like these machines are taking strain, I might consider a more beefier desktop/mini which can stay at home while we travel with these relatively inexpensive, but incredibly featherweight light Air's.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
I can fully appreciate how this could be an issue for bona fide pro's, but for the slightly above average user like me, I can't easily justify the extra €320 a 16GB RAM machine would cost, just to maybe avoid excessive swaps, maybe at a later stage. Right now, based on our current usage, we are as happy as pigs in....with these M1 Airs with only 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD's. If/when it looks like these machines are taking strain, I might consider a more beefier desktop/mini which can stay at home while we travel with these relatively inexpensive, but incredibly featherweight light Air's.

I think that the 16 GB RAM models will hold their resale well. 16 GB is a $200 uplift in the US. 320 Euros is $380 so you'd be paying close to double what we pay. Going refurb saves $170 here so you the cost going Refurb in the US gets you close to getting the RAM for free. I have 128 GB of RAM on my Windows desktop so it's a bit annoying that the M1 Macs are so limiting.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I must admit, the one thing that does make me nervous about the M1 Air is not being able to replace the SSD nor the RAM if/when it fails, not even Apple themselves can. I replaced the drives myself in both our old MPB's just for more space, took 20 mins a piece. As it is right now, there is absolutely no telling just how long these new M1 SSD's will last. In the meantime...

My sister still has a 2013 MBP, the first one that came out with all SSD. I played with it a few weeks ago, running on Big Sur and the drive on APFS. It's a bit slow compared to an M1, but it still works, 8 years later. She's been using it for graphic design running various Adobe apps and her teenage son still uses it for video editing.
I just don't worry about it. If you want to run a fast modern Mac you have to play by Apple's rules, especially if needing a portable. To look at Apple Silicon with a base M1 MBP isn't overly expensive and makes for a very compelling business machine afterwards. 8GB RAM gets the majority a lot further than some would suggest. I've yet to spec a 13" MBP with 16GB with them utilised professionally as it's not needed and why throw money at Apple...

With the Air I'd be more concerned about battery longevity than the SSD's. Like or loath, you either continue with the Mac or look to Windows or Linux as Apple isn't going to change it's direction anytime soon.

Q-6
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I think that the 16 GB RAM models will hold their resale well. 16 GB is a $200 uplift in the US. 320 Euros is $380 so you'd be paying close to double what we pay. Going refurb saves $170 here so you the cost going Refurb in the US gets you close to getting the RAM for free. I have 128 GB of RAM on my Windows desktop so it's a bit annoying that the M1 Macs are so limiting.
I think that the same as the Intel Mac's, Apple Silicon Mac's will follow; where Apple's expensive upgrade's will add little to the secondary market pricing as the vast majority don't need & don't care. I need 32GB in this notebook, equally it's not a major bargaining point...

End of the day the most cost effective Mac's are the base models due to Apple's excessive margins on upgrades. Making it at times more sense to sell and replace reaping the benefits of a faster new machine that has more benefit to the workflow. Bottom line is if you need higher spec's you'll know, and if you don't your just helping Apple out :)

Q-6
 

k-hawinkler

macrumors 6502
Sep 14, 2011
260
88
Hopefully Apple will offer Silicon Macs with more memory in the future.
Including the Mac minis. I would like that.
 

EuroChilli

macrumors 6502a
Apr 11, 2021
530
542
Belgium
I just don't worry about it. If you want to run a fast modern Mac you have to play by Apple's rules, especially if needing a portable. To look at Apple Silicon with a base M1 MBP isn't overly expensive and makes for a very compelling business machine afterwards. 8GB RAM gets the majority a lot further than some would suggest. I've yet to spec a 13" MBP with 16GB with them utilised professionally as it's not needed and why throw money at Apple...

With the Air I'd be more concerned about battery longevity than the SSD's. Like or loath, you either continue with the Mac or look to Windows or Linux as Apple isn't going to change it's direction anytime soon.

Q-6

While I do enjoy fiddling with and repairing such things, I'm actually not worried about it either. If something does fail later, I'll worry about it then. I've come to terms with Apple's policies a long time ago. That, and also not being able to fix most modern cars myself either. Now my 1998 Landrover Defender TDi 300 is another story, much like my 2011 MBP. It only cost me €80 to replace the factory 4GB RAM with 16, mostly just to see if it would work. Well it did, and it made quite a difference, along with a 1TB Seagate SSHD for €100. Swapping dropped to zero.

These little M1 Air's are powerful enough, but they're not really meant for 4k video editing in the field and the like. I'd mostly use an 8 RAM just to capture raw footage onto an external and maybe some casual viewing, but then do the heavy lifting (finalising) on a more suitable machine when I get back to civilisation. If you think too many swaps/writes etc are happening and your internal SSD might be prematurely wearing out, maybe you're asking too much from the cheapest entry level computer Apple has to offer. There's a rev counter in your car for a reason.
 
Last edited:

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
So. TBW and Lifetime left do not correlate each other linearly. It's way more complex. And this is the reason why most SSDs have such "low" TBW ratings, even though the NANDs can do more. The manufacturer calculates with a worse case of write amplification as the TBW value is often used for warranty purpose.
The overly long explanation aside this doesn't deal with my main question 'what is the equation?' 2x^2 + y + z isn't linear and has three unknowns. Never mind some 95% of these are 'x TBW written in y weeks/months' with no reference what so ever to the percentage which is what actually is what matters.

Having 10 TB knocking off 1% is a totally different thing than 21 TB still showing "0%" (ie somewhere below 0.5%)
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
LOL same here, my 2011 15" MPB was hammered professionally for over two years, passed around the family, daughter even used it as a gaming platform 😆 Came back to me as the SW image was a mess and barely booted.

Now cleaned up on 10.13 it's been never clean installed, 100% stock, yet it runs better than ever. That said the 2011 15" MBP does have genuine HW issues with the Radeon dGPU.

Got to be real; I've looked at my M1 MBP's SSD usage and for me it's a non issue. If writes to the SSD are piling up;
  1. Identify any aberrant applications
  2. Run Onyx
  3. reinstall the OS
  4. Hard reset the computer via IPSW
As yet not seen anyone try this...

The numbers are irrelevant the root cause is more the issue if writes to the SSD are observed to be excessive calculating the TBW wont resolve anything, evaluating the software will...
Uh. You so know that reinstalliing the OS writes to the SSD, right? So the above solution has as one of its steps effectivelly 'if you have SSD write problems reinstall the OS and write even more to the SSD. :eek: Brilliant. /s
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
I think that the 16 GB RAM models will hold their resale well. 16 GB is a $200 uplift in the US. 320 Euros is $380 so you'd be paying close to double what we pay. Going refurb saves $170 here so you the cost going Refurb in the US gets you close to getting the RAM for free. I have 128 GB of RAM on my Windows desktop so it's a bit annoying that the M1 Macs are so limiting.
Actually using the German Apple site going from 8 to 16 GB of RAM is 250 € with VAT. Here in the US sales tax is all over the place so the US $ 200 isn't as informative. Since VAT "is collected by all sellers in each stage of the supply chain. Suppliers, manufacturers, distributors, and retailers" there is no way to know how much of that 250 € is VAT before Apple Germany got their hands on it.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
The overly long explanation aside this doesn't deal with my main question 'what is the equation?' 2x^2 + y + z isn't linear and has three unknowns. Never mind some 95% of these are 'x TBW written in y weeks/months' with no reference what so ever to the percentage which is what actually is what matters.

Having 10 TB knocking off 1% is a totally different thing than 21 TB still showing "0%" (ie somewhere below 0.5%)
There is no equation as such. Please read and try to understand the explanation. Read the Wiki pages. It is complicated but the explanation you are looking for is there.
 
Last edited:

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
There is no equation as such. Please read and try and understand the explanation. Read the Wiki pages. It is complicated but the explanation you are looking for is there.
It is not me you need to have understand the explanation; it is all the 'x TBW written in y weeks/months' posters with little if any reference what so ever to the percentage which is what actually is what matters who need to understand and stop acting like Chicken Little.

New Laptop: SSD health/lifespan. CrystalDiskInfo shows SSD at 99% had this "I had a SanDisk drive, yes it was one of the famously bad ones, that went from 100% health to 50% over night (basically) and failed very shortly after that" Even with the best checks in the world bad hardware can get through so that is another "fun" factor in all this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: giv-as-a-ciggy-kent

Thistle41

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2021
74
39
UK
It's about like this (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Lifetime left tells you about the wear of the cells. So lets assume you have a disk with 1000 P/E cycles NAND. That means, every cell of the NAND can be programmed and erased at least 1000 times. So, lifetime left is the percentage of available P/E cycles across all cells. So if all cells on average have 600P/E cycles left, this means that lifetime left indicator is at 60%. No matter how many TB have been written to the disk.

In TLC NAND, 1 cell stores 3 bits, QLC 4 bits.
I don't know what Apple uses for the M1, but lets use QLC as 4 is easier to calculate with for this example.

Now assume, you're writing 100GB (100,000,00 Bytes) of data. This means you're writing to at least 25,000,000 QLC cells.
This assumes the disk is brand new and has no data on it. For now it looks linear.
But:

If the disk gets more used over time, the controller uses something called Wear leveling. Certain cells are written to less often than others. So they get worn out faster. To prevent that, the controller will re-arange data while you write to wear out the disk more evenly. This causes additional writes. This is called write amplification.

View attachment 1814556
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_amplification

So if you write 100GB to half full and well-used disk, wear leveling causes additional writes. So, lets assume the average write amplification for this 100GB write is 2. This means, this write would cause 50,000,000 cells to be written to. So it "wears out" twice as many cells as when the disk was new and fresh.

Also important to note: Writing can be done to pages, which are mutliple cells. Erasing can only be done to blocks, which are multiple pages. So this means, if you write data, a whole block needs to be read into the controller's RAM and modified in-memory. Then the whole block has to be erased and the whole modified block has to be re-written. This causes more writes than you actually wanted. Typically it's around 32 tp 128 pages per block. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#NAND_memories
If this is a erased block, which means all pages of that block are empty, then the page can be written without any of that above. But the fuller your SSD gets and the more you use it and modify files, the more this will happen. And causes more NAND writes than actual host writes.

The TBW is data written by the host (aka: your computer.). It's the data that was sent to the device. Not the data that was written to the NAND. Sending 100GB to the SSD can cause it to write (e.g.) 200GB in total as it has to re-arange data for wear leveling purpose or because you write smaller parts than can be erased.

If your disk is always 80% full, and you constantly write to the pther 20% free space, your Lifetime left will go down much quicker with less TBW than if you have 50% free and only write 20% of the disk. This way it has more free cells and doesn't need to shift data round that much.

So. TBW and Lifetime left do not correlate each other linearly. It's way more complex. And this is the reason why most SSDs have such "low" TBW ratings, even though the NANDs can do more. The manufacturer calculates with a worse case of write amplification as the TBW value is often used for warranty purpose.

As the controllers get better and better and more stuff like compression is used, write amplification can be reduced more and more. And therefore, SSDs last longer with more TBW, even though "lower quality" (means: rated for less P/E cycles) is used.

Write Amplification is not gone and will probably never go away. We don't know about the specs of apple's SSD controllers. They made their own since the T2 macs. And Apple isn't know for boasting tech specs for such things.
Thanks, that does explain a lot of the confusion around the wear figure reports.

So, as I've always been aware of the physical nature of disks having designed disk controllers way back in the 80s I try to plan by having no more than 75% of disk capacity used. Back in the day that was more of a concern about fragmentation with tracks and cylinders impacting the access times. However, on this M1 I try to keep it at around 50% and any extra goes into 'the cloud' or on my home-based NAS. I'm reckoning on the fact that with so much space on the SSD it does not have to shuffle blocks around too much and avoid the write amplification effect. It's just a guess of course and may make no difference as the controller is following an unknown algorithm.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Uh. You so know that reinstalliing the OS writes to the SSD, right? So the above solution has as one of its steps effectivelly 'if you have SSD write problems reinstall the OS and write even more to the SSD. :eek: Brilliant. /s
Full ISPW install will correct any FW & OS related issues. Last time I looked largest ISPW install for Big Sur was in the region 14 GB not 14 TB.... a point worth thinking on. Alternatively people can keep running around in circles, racking up countless TB of wear on the drive and do nothing but complain on a forum or argue about how the numbers are derived...

If mine and the majority of other M1 Mac's don't have this issue it obviously points to; poorly implemented third party applications, a level of corruption in the FW/OS or plain wrong usage, alternatively maybe my M1 MBP is a special one personally built and delivered by Tim Cook...

Q-6
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ningj

Thistle41

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2021
74
39
UK
Full ISPW install will correct any FW & OS related issues. Last time I looked largest ISPW install for Big Sur was in the region 14 GB not 14 TB.... a point worth thinking on. Alternatively people can keep running around in circles, racking up countless TB of wear on the drive and do nothing but complain on a forum or argue about how the numbers are derived...

If mine and the majority of other M1 Mac's don't have this issue it obviously points to; poorly implemented third party applications, a level of corruption in the FW/OS or plain wrong usage, alternatively maybe my M1 MBP is special one personally built and delivered by Tim Cook...

Q-6
Agree, but I always install any update ASAP in the hope that it fixes my SSD write problem. As for usage, I'm doing nothing that an 89-year-old granny wouldn't be doing. As for 'poorly implemented 3rd party apps', well actually I do have Office 2019 for Mac installed and am seriously wondering if that is the culprit. Outlook has a history of doing massive CPU activity and writes (on both PC & MAC) and the weird behavior relating to the power cord attached, well MS does have a history of some strange and illogical practices in their apps. You may say, 'If mine and the majority of other M1 Mac's don't have this issue...' then I still maintain that if you're not looking for it you won't find it.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Agree, but I always install any update ASAP in the hope that it fixes my SSD write problem. As for usage, I'm doing nothing that an 89-year-old granny wouldn't be doing. As for 'poorly implemented 3rd party apps', well actually I do have Office 2019 for Mac installed and am seriously wondering if that is the culprit. Outlook has a history of doing massive CPU activity and writes (on both PC & MAC) and the weird behavior relating to the power cord attached, well MS does have a history of some strange and illogical practices in their apps. You may say, 'If mine and the majority of other M1 Mac's don't have this issue...' then I still maintain that if you're not looking for it you won't find it.
As said I've looked at my M1 and it's OK. At the end of the day if nothing else works hard reset via ISPW may just be the last option. The downside is that it will completely reset the Mac, equally if it resolves the issue time well spent.

As for Outlook I would think that you would see such heavy use in Activity Monitor as the disk writes pile up. I do remember on another thread a member had this issue, ran Onyx and it was corrected for him/her. It's free and as long as you read before you select an additional option safe.

Personally I'd look at/try;
  1. Third party applications
  2. Onyx
  3. Recover OS from Apple's recovery
  4. Hard reset via ISPW - Read Apple's related support documentation
There's a guide for mitigation here although I'd far rather find resolution versus workarounds that don't fit all cases. If persistent I would also make sure it was documented with Apple and follow up accordingly in the off chance it's hardware related.

Q-6
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Thistle41

Queen6

macrumors G4
Might be javascript frameworks with Intel pieces.


Yeah, this came up on my YouTube timeline. So I'm not imagining it!
Just another factor and well documented. These guys worked at it, presented logical points. Apple is far from perfect fixes SW issues as and when it's expedient, although not always in a timely manner. Switching to a new architecture is no easy task by any means, personally I'm impressed it all comes together as well as it does.

Devs need to explicitly follow Apple's guidelines or issue may well be incurred. We know that all don't or the transition to 64bit only would have been a lot smoother. Is very much a complex issue as there are so very many variables/parameter's to consider. I take my time to build the SW image, more so with Apple Silicon as it's a new platform, nor are all applications native.

I don't have too many Intel apps on my M1, I do think that Rosetta 2 adds some overhead to writes on the drive, however not excessively. Personally I think you need to know that the base Apple install is good then move forward step by step. If too many changes occur it all too rapidly becomes impossible to track and trace the culprit.

I read this and tend to agree; if your Mac is critical to your workflow, opt for an Intel Mac in the interim and allow Apple and the devs to resolve the issues over the next couple of years. I'm good to dive into the deep end of the pool as I have multiple systems. The M1 MBP out performs fast Hex Core i7's, poorly implemented i9's, equally not a direct replacement for multiple reasons...

The M1 Mac's have changed the landscape, I believe Apple will continue to disrupt conventional thinking...

Q-6
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.